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 Post subject: Noise hidden behind noise - neverending quest for silence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:21 am 
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Posts: 30
I think I have been bitten by the PC-silence bug. Its not quite as common as the extreme overclockers bug, but the symptoms are similar: a quest for more silence (or speed) that almost becomes a neverending one.

My system i as follow:

Case: Antec SX830
Case-fans: 5 x Panaflo FBA08A12L
PSU: Antec Truepower 430W
Motherboard: Epox 8KHA+
NorthBridge heatsink: Zalman ZM-NB32J
CPU: AMD XP-1700 Palomino (not overclocked)
CPU heatsink: Swiftech MCXC370
CPU-fan: Powercooler 60mm/3000rpm
Harddisk: 2 x Seagate Barracuda IV - 40 & 80MB
Graphic card: Abit Siluro TI-4200 - 64Mb
Graphic heatsink: Zalman VGA heatpipe cooler ZM80-HP

Ok, heres my story:

First I thought that my 5 Panaflo case-fans running at 12V, and my previous 60mm/4500rpm CPU-fan was too loud. Especially the case-fans (they sure as heck make more noise then 21dB at 12V - I wonder how far away Panasonic placed the dB test-equipment?). If I only do something about that - then Im satisfied. So I changed the case-fan volt-settings to only 7V and swithed the CPU-fan to above Powercooler 60mm/3000rpm.

Then two new (previously hidden) noise-sources popped up: My old Antec PP303XF PSU and my old IBM Deskstar 46.1Gb harddisk. So I replaced to above Antec Truepower PSU and the Barracuda IV 40 & 80Mb harddisk.

Then it happened again; the previously "quiet" Northbridge fan suddenly didnt appear silent enough anymore. If only I change that... So I replaced it with Zalmans passive alternative. Great!

Hmm - one of the two Barracuda IV harddisks emitted a very discrete but continues high-pitch kind of noise. Once I recognized it (and it took a while), it became rather annoing. I decided to only boot up with the 40Mb Barracuda disk, where I have installed the system. It suppose to be somewhat quieter because its only contain 1 disk internally. Sure enough - the discrete highpitch-noise was gone.

Aargh! Now both the 60mm/3000rpm CPU-fan and the very quiet Abit original graphic card-fan seems to bother me. So I slowered the CPU-fan down to 2600rpm with help of Zalman FanMate 1. This made the noise from the graphic-card stand out even more. So this very weekend Im planning the replace the original Graphic-fan with Zalmans ZM80-HP heatpipe cooler. I hope I finally becomes satisfied because I dont know what else I can change or replace.

PC-temps:
Current room-temperature: 20C
Motherboard temperature: 25C
CPU temperature (idle): 41C


Last edited by Ralf63 on Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:56 am 
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Posts: 169
Location: Stockholm
Sounds good, keep us posted!

Further on you may want to exchange that 60mm fan... I'm just warning you. ;)

I'm planning on some odd way of mounting a fan to blow air across the gfx card heatsinks, I gave up on an old attempt to try and replace the heatsinks -- I measured, and there just weren't enough room for the heatsinks I had in mind!
And since I use an uncommon video card, the zalman passive heatsink will not fit. I just feel uncomfortable experimenting without a thermal probe. :|


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2002 5:09 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Amsterdam
:shock: Well I'm in total denial mode.
Under my desk is an AMD 2000 I'm just fed up with the noise. So I thought don't touch it for a few week. (It works).
I bought myself a EPIA C3-board. Fiddled with it for two weeks.
Sure for such a small board it's great. But ..... crackle, crackle . . .
I can't surf. I use W2K and am trying everything. I'll keep going. Apparently it can't keep up with al the data!

So Ralf keep up the good work someday we'll get to the place were our thoughts are more valued than the sound of our fans.
And to quote ..... furthermore I have the opinion that Cartage and all producers of noisy equipment will be destroyed.


http://www.rietcom.nl/music/music_for_the_braindead.htm

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 9:36 am 
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Red Dawn wrote:
Sounds good, keep us posted! [...]
And since I use an uncommon video card, the zalman passive heatsink will not fit. I just feel uncomfortable experimenting without a thermal probe. :|


Ok, I have now replaced my original Abit TI-4200 heatsink with Zalmans new ZM80-HP heatpipe cooler.

Am I satisified? Yes. However since Abit didnt bothered to add a built-in termalprope on their card, I cant tell any exact temperatures. But then I hold my fingers on both this passive VGA-cooler and on the bottom copper-slab on my Swiftech MCXC370 CPU-heatsink, they seem to have about the same temperature. The VGA-sink maybe slightly varmer - around 45-47C I guess. The CPU-temp is 41C by the way.

I wouldnt recommend it for overclocker-fans (unless you add another 92mm fan on Zalmans FB123 fanbracket). Also I probably would feel somewhat more unsecure having the passive alternative alone on a faster/hotter TI-4600 / Radeon 9700 pro (if you have a ATI:s latest - wait for a revised version of this heatsink).
But with standard-clocked Geforce-4 TI-4200 cards they seems to work flawlessly. Especially together with Chieftec/Antec cases with 2 x 80mm case-fans on the back. The lower case-fan sucks out air less the 1 inch away from the upper slab of this VGA coolpipe-sink. Convenient. Any more questions? Just ask.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 3:31 pm 
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Location: Stockholm
I think the GPU's can handle quite a bit of warmth; say in the 60-70's region to be safe. I've heard that you have to put a lot of the thermal goop in between the block and the gpu, is that correct?

Oh, and pictures of your system would always be nice. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 8:55 pm 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
No, just like CPU's you should put a paper thin layer of either thermal grease, or thermal epoxy (whichever you have to use) in between the GPU and the heatsink.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 8:59 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
it does mention somewhere on the zalman website that u have to use SHEDLOADS of goop on the actual GPU for the HP cooler, don't know why they say it though, I agree with the paper thin layer, the goo no matter how good is still not as good as metal to metal contact...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 9:05 pm 
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That's odd, I wonder why.

I'd still lap the top of the GPU and put a thin layer on anyway. I'd also use Artic Silver, and not their cheap stuff.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 1:33 am 
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Red Dawn wrote:
I've heard that you have to put a lot of the thermal goop in between the block and the gpu, is that correct?


No, not more then usual together with a Geforce-4 TI-card or below or a Radeon 8500-card or below. However, one obviously must apply it also between the heatpipe and all aluminium-slabs on both sides to ensure effective heat-transferrings all the way. Not only on the GPU-core. The nice step-by-step manual explains it all.

One exception though: Since the release Zalman have discovered that their product isnt fully compatible with Ati:s new Radeon 9700 Pro card. So for those 9700 pro-owners who have already bought this heatsink Zalman comes up with the following improvised makeshift solution:

"Radeon 9700 Pro chipset core height is lower than that of the rectangular frame around it. Therefore, you should apply a generous amount of thermal grease as shown in the pictures before installing ZM80-HP."
Check out http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/news/20021018.htm

Obviously a far better solution for Radeon 9700-owners is to wait for an updated version (probably named ZM80A-HP) instead. Also, be sure to visit Zalmans webpage for this cooler ( http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/zm80-hp.htm ) and read through all present incompatible-issues with this first version, before you decides to buy it.

Quote:
Oh, and pictures of your system would always be nice. :)


Hmm - my system isnt customized or modded in anyway. So the exterior looks pretty ordinary. ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 3:46 am 
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Location: Stockholm
I read the same newspost a while ago that quokked did, and while I don't remember exactly if they were talking about all video cards, or the 9700 in particular; they did say that you should put ridiculous amounts of thermal goop on.

My card is also on the non-compatible list, so no luck for me I guess -- further on, I don't think they'll ever incorporate a fix/solution for it either, since it's a Voodoo 5 5500. I'm waiting until summer before I upgrade, and I'll probably go for a hammer, if it turns out ok.

Ralf63 wrote:
Hmm - my system isnt customized or modded in anyway. So the exterior looks pretty ordinary. ;)


I'm talking about the interior here. :)
For some odd reason, I like to look at other people's systems, sometimes it gives me ideas of what to do to mine etc. There's always something to learn, and different paths to take of how to set things up, not everything is uniform, and thank god for that! :)
Diversity is what makes life fun living, at least for me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 6:01 am 
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Red Dawn wrote:
I read the same newspost a while ago that quokked did, and while I don't remember exactly if they were talking about all video cards, or the 9700 in particular; they did say that you should put ridiculous amounts of thermal goop on.


Read the official Zalman statement again:
"Radeon 9700 Pro chipset core height is lower than that of the rectangular frame around it." Therefore, and therefore alone the need for more thermal compound on that specific brand & model.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 6:16 am 
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I did read it, and I also took the time to do a little search to find that link.

From Zalman

You were right, it was (and is) an ATI specific problem for their high-end video cards.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 7:14 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
anyone tried using the Zalman VGA HP cooler on a Radeon 9000 Pro out there? I think for me some dremeling of the HP cooler is in order due to the amount of stuff around the socket? anyone had any experiecnes with the silencing of a Radeon 9000 Pro? :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:07 pm 
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Do you already own a Radeon 9000, or are you planning on buying one?

If you are planning on buying it, be sure to get that model from Sapphire (without fan). How is the 9000 compared to the 8500 and 9700 by the way?

Oh, and the 9500's are shipping now (I think), or at least very very soon.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:12 pm 
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already have one, we can't get fancy brands like the sapphire down here, :( I've got a radeon 9000 Pro by Gigabyte, got lucky the 40MM HSF cooler is quiet :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 4:01 pm 
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Ahh, but I'm betting you want to remove it anyhow? *grins*

So how good is the radeon, what's your take? I'm thinking of incorporating it in an (in planning stage (might never be finalized with my luck!)) upcoming system, but I'm still unsure. Let's hear some numbers! ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 4:12 pm 
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hehe yeah probably as well, looking at the Zalman ZM80-HP cooler http://www.guru3d.com/review/ati/radeon9000pro/ here's a review of the ATi Version of the Radeon 9000 Pro, goes pretty quick but get's shatted on in the 3D mark though but beats a lot of the Budget nVidia cards, I like my one as well though *HUGS* it runs pretty cool and quiet :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 12:34 pm 
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Thanks for the info quokked, while it did perform less than I had expected it to, I'm ok with it, the idea wasn't to buy the fastest card around, but one that is good enough.

Also, I can get one of those 'fancy' sapphire cards (not too exotic for us who live here up north with polar bears, that have long beards, and are named Sven). Wooho! ;-)


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