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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 2:40 pm 
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It's very funny reflecting back on the post. :lol:

I would like to say well done for pulling it off for so long, and it seemed to work. It certainly sparked up interest for silenX PSU.

"Maybe one day we will forgive and forget".
Good luck anyway..


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 2:56 pm 
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I'm not proud of pulling it off for so long but I do hope you will forgive us, whether now or somewhere down the road. I appreciate the enthusiasm of the members in the Silenx brand and do hope one day their trust can be regained. If you feel duped for any information that you felt was misleading, once again, I apologize. Needless to say, we will continue to improve our silencing equipment and we wish to support those who are seeking a quiet computing experience. Please don't hesitate to post any comments on us, we'd feel better if you let it all out :)

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 3:00 pm 
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Quote:
Uh-oh.. I feel a silenx-digitilix-carthy era coming on... Are YOU a commun.. umm I mean, a silenx employee?!


what the .... :?:

This doesn't make sense.


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 3:08 pm 
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I find this rather odd:
silenx wrote:
We admit to the wrongdoings in here by deceiving the forum members with our posts from multiple user IDs

"We" and "our" posts? Who and how many is that?


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 3:28 pm 
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Bat, the IDs Mike and Alistair have outlined. We as in there is more than one person here at SilenX. Hope that clarifies things.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 3:34 pm 
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Good job Mike and Alistair.

But the question remains, is that all of them? Sure you've found an IP he was using, but he could have a whole extra set of alias from another IP. One set from work, one set from home, etc.

Perhaps you could set up a special avatar that could be used to specify factory representives here. They could sign up for an account, fill out a special form and submit it to the admins. That way general forum users would know who they were talking to, and if a product opinion was expressed in the resonse we would know what the nature of the bias is.

I don't see this a being a "scarlet letter" for them to wear either. It would actually be a good thing. With this system if a member had a specific question about a specific product the factory rep could respond, and we'd all know that he had the most accurate information possible. As we all know some unintentionally erroneous information always gets traded in forums like this.

And then once that system is in place and another discovery like this is made, then a prominent declaration of deceit could be posted. If they have the opportunity to identify themselves and intentionally hide it then we'll know that sort of ethics their company carries.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 3:37 pm 
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silenx wrote:
Please don't hesitate to post any comments on us, we'd feel better if you let it all out :)
OK, you asked. My personal view is people who are prepared to f**k about like this, and/or tolerate employees/colleagues doing the same, should go find a playground rather than try and pretend they are a business. It is so pathetically unprofessional (including washing your dirty linen in public): my conclusion is I can ignore the tripe you/yours have posted here, as well as any warranties you claim for your products, or conformance to standards.

MiSS KiTTY wrote:
This doesn't make sense.
O for Pete's sake smell the coffee. Your comments in previous threads (respect for Pete) and accusations by silenx on the first page of this thread (stooge for Louis) mean your credibility, in my eyes at least, is zero. How about you try explain simply your knowledge of and/or affiliation to these people/companies?


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 3:43 pm 
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dukla2000- With all that ranting it went in one ear and out the other. You're a pretty uptight guy.

Why don't you take a breather and chill.


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 3:54 pm 
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dukla2000 wrote:
silenx wrote:
Please don't hesitate to post any comments on us, we'd feel better if you let it all out :)
OK, you asked. My personal view is people who are prepared to f**k about like this, and/or tolerate employees/colleagues doing the same, should go find a playground rather than try and pretend they are a business. It is so pathetically unprofessional (including washing your dirty linen in public): my conclusion is I can ignore the tripe you/yours have posted here, as well as any warranties you claim for your products, or conformance to standards.


If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. You've made your decision our apologies are worthless, we bid you well on having a quiet PC. If an apology is no good to you, probably nothing else will make a difference for you. Nonetheless, you're more than welcome to ask us anything regarding silencing products at any time. Thanks for your opinion on the matter, sorry to find we've disappointed you direly.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 3:55 pm 
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Rusty075 wrote:
If they have the opportunity to identify themselves and intentionally hide it then we'll know that sort of ethics their company carries.
Rusty - I know of 3 other vendors around here, I would guess there are more. The key is they talk sense and are open about their affiliations anyway. I am glad these 3 are here: they are regularly contributing far more than a simple punt for their product. I would urge caution we do not chase their skills away when trying to deal with the few.


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 3:56 pm 
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Ok, I have just read this thread and my head is spinning....

I am still trying to find our if ExoticPC and Silenx are different companies.... did I miss something here???

The websites are virtually identical, and on the Silenx site, even the Photo's of the PSU's have ExoticPC written on them !

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 3:58 pm 
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Starsky, we're different companies. If your photo is showing up with ExoticPC stickers on our site, you probably have the images cached.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 3:59 pm 
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Exactly dukla2000, that's my point exactly. If we give them a chance to positively identify themselves it will help everone out by giving their answers creditibility, and will distance them from the likes of SilenX.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 4:01 pm 
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Silenx... Same from home and work...

Image at the top of this page.....

http://www.silenx.com/viewCat_m.asp?idCategory=68

EDIT: Note this just changed... first 4 ctrl-refreshes no change... and o nthe fifth a mysterious change.

Silenx- I don't trust you now. You have broken the trust we had and now I will never trust you or anything you say. I was looking at buying one of your PSU's but as far as I am concerned I would rather help out someone else.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 4:05 pm 
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Got your point starsky, thanks for your opinions.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 4:10 pm 
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Silenx, it is like you have no real remorse from reading your posts. Do you really care about the breaking trust?

I have been pushing stuff recommended through SPCR to my customers in the Gaming and Pro Audio communities here in Australia. We thought we were on a winner after reading reviews and comments about exoticPC and silenx PSU's.

No recommendations now mate! In fact I would almost go as far as to warn people to avoid your products as I think you are of questionable character.

I am seriously pissed! <end of rant>

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 4:34 pm 
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starsky, we do care. Question, what can we do about it? We've made it clear that we apologize for the confusion and any leading on we've been doing with the IDs and that our intent was not to harm anyone on here and only to make a clear distinction our product was not to be confused with exotic's and to preserve our rights of the brand. If you have a suggestion as to how we can repair that trust, please feel free to tell us!

I'm not here to piss you off, if I could satisfy everyone's rage regarding this whole situation reasonably, I would. If you find any false information from the screen names we've used, bring it up to us. I'm just afraid some people are completely intolerant of what we've done such as dukla, and again, I do apologize dukla if we've deceived you in any way, I hope you're not one of them starsky. Apologies if I've done anything to suggest I'm of questionable character. We're just three guys here who've spent half-a-year developing a product only to be forced to leave a company due to disagreements in profit-sharing, I'll get to the details privately, and simply with no other job or source if income on hand. No, that does not justify our actions. Yes, we were desperate to get what we felt was rightfully ours from a former employer. If there is anything that can be done to regain your trust, please suggest it to me privately.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 5:03 pm 
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Silenx,
thanks... this shows me a little more remorse.

Time for MikeC to do some reviews on your PSU's.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 5:11 pm 
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You three guys (Silenx) must have slept thru your Business Ethics and your Marketing classes or you would have known the final outcome of actions like these far outweigh any short term benefits, but defending something your feel is yours and is being taken away will make you stupid, I guess.

I have been kicking myself for ordering the Fortron 120mm PSU right before the review came out on the Silenx PSU, but WOW do I feel great about that decision now.

Too bad, because even if you have a good product, most people make purchase decisions on so many more factors than just the product, factors like TRUST.


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 5:20 pm 
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Well, now we'll never know if you're really sorry that you did it, or that you got caught doing it.

My money's on the latter. You can apologize till the cows come home, but my money will be going to ExoticPC when I purchase my SilenX PSU (which I will be doing next week). Not a smart business move.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 5:31 pm 
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Quote:
Time for MikeC to do some reviews on your PSU's.

IMO, reviews here are a privilege for those who sell products. They are far from being a "right." At this time I am totally uninterested interested in doing ANY reviews on ANY samples from silenx.com. In fact, it is very possible that silenx.com will be banned from our forums. I have a very bad taste in my mouth about all this.

Fraud for financial gain is about the worst thing you could possibly do to a community like ours. We're not talking about an occasional post here and there, we're talking about someone totally, systematically misrepresenting himself, telling not a white lie or two but making over 400 posts over a period of 2.5+ months while insinuating himself into the community, and repeatedly taking cheap shots at competitors while disguised. :x :x

There's no excuse for this. It's too late to "be sorry". :roll:

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Last edited by MikeC on Tue May 06, 2003 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 5:34 pm 
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silenx wrote:
I do apologize dukla if we've deceived you in any way. Apologies if I've done anything to suggest I'm of questionable character. If there is anything that can be done to regain your trust, please suggest it to me privately.

Have you deceived anyone here? Have you done anything to suggest you're a questionable character? These are not "if"s, they are definites. You out-and-out lied about who you are. You are not a trustworthy person/people. Not only have you destroyed your reputation, you have hurt SilentPCReview's as well; I will be very wary of product recommendations made by non-forum-regulars in the future.

Also, what on earth did you spend 6 months developing? You ordered some Fortron PSU's and some fans, and slapped them together. The only reason I would buy one pre-made is for the warranty, but you have already shown that your business ethics are practically non-existent, so your "warranty" means nothing to me. Perhaps I would make the purchase from a different, reputable source, such as ExoticPC, but certainly not from SilenX.com.

I've got a new product idea for you: silence the silenx! Your vague confessions have gone on long enough.


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 6:24 pm 
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Deliberate misrepresentation of a commercial interest on the SPCR forums is certainly unethical, and the folks at silenx certainly deserve strong condemnation for such actions. But when choosing how to respond to this offense, whether by taking your business elsewhere, or ignoring posts from silenx, or whatever course each of us sees fit, it is important to also consider the good things that the people at silenx have brought about.

Most obviously, there are the 400+ posts left under the different names from silenx, some of which are simply shilling for Silenx PSUs, but some of which are genuinely helpful. Behind the clouds of smoke surrounding silenx, there are people who do genuinely care about reducing computer noise. Next, we should consider that (if you can trust him when he says so) Peter Kim was apparently the driving force behing getting the Silenx PSUs for sale at ExoticPC, those same PSUs that MikeC wrote such a glowing review of. Now that he's doing business as Silenx, he has apparently made further revisions to this PSU, including using fan isolators to hold the PSU fan. While their utility in this instance may be limited, I must ask: who else has shown such commitment to making an affordable, truly quiet PSU? Lastly, I'd mention that the folks from silenx have drawn this forum's attention to the ultra low-speed Jaro/AddA/Fenshen 80mm fan, which MikeC has provisionally found as a top-league cooling fan, perhaps even more useful than the venerable Panaflo L1A.

So, while the people at silenx have certainly earned the enmity of whomever would have it for them, I will not, and I hope no one else will, let their failures completely overshadow the good that they have contributed to the PC silencing community. Thus, I can speak only for myself, but hopefully not alone, when I say "Thank you, silenx, whomever you are, and may your poor choices in the past make clear for you the right ones in the future."


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 6:43 pm 
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MikeC wrote:
Quote:
Time for MikeC to do some reviews on your PSU's.

IMO, reviews here are a privilege for those who sell products. They are far from being a "right." At this time I am totally uninterested interested in doing ANY reviews on ANY samples from silenx.com. In fact, it is very possible that silenx.com will be banned from our forums. I have a very bad taste in my mouth about all this.

Fraud for financial gain is about the worst thing you could possibly do to a community like ours. We're not talking about an occasional post here and there, we're talking about someone totally, systematically misrepresenting himself, telling not a white lie or two but making over 400 posts over a period of 2.5+ months while insinuating himself into the community, and repeatedly taking cheap shots at competitors while disguised. :x :x

There's no excuse for this. It's too late to "be sorry". :roll:



Mike, I understand how you feel. That is the same empty feeling that I have too... but it would be much more personal for you as this is your little baby growing up here.

The more I ponder on Justin_R's thoughts, and my own temperature level drops back... the more I see that it is time to judge the product on it's merits, and make a purchasing decision taking into account the events disclosed in this forum. It just adds to the risk.

While the name Silenx is in dispute we should refer to them as ExoticPC.com Silenx PSU's and Silenx.com Silenx PSU's.

MikeC I hope that you do review the Silenx PSU's. The information is still useful to the community, and will shed some light on the differences between the two Silenx PSU's.

Public Condemnation in this thread has happened, and the reputation of Silenx.com has been tarnished, and for many irrepairably. For others the trust will be regained slowly over time. I think that starts with a thorough going over by you Mike. We trust you Mike, and understanding the product does NOT mean that we will necessarily purchase it.

I am hesitant to hand over my CC details to Silenx after this, even though I see the remorse now. I have had a personal PM from Silenx and I am starting to be a little more understanding, ir really does look like an act of frustration and desparation over the whole Silenx name. That I can understand, but forgiveness will take time.

What should NOT happen though is that this one error in judgement should sink a company that in Justin_R's words "who do genuinely care about reducing computer noise".


geez - no more rants for me today... I should go back and get some work done.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 7:02 pm 
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well said justin_r.

although i still feel silenx exploited our community.. i havent seen many complaints about their actual product. mikec even gave them a pretty good review for their new psu (well, exoticpc anyways). its not like they said their product was something it isnt.. and im pretty sure the ppl that have a silenx are still satisfied with it. and its not like all of their posts have been used to promote their product.. some of them have actually contributed to the community with legitimate replies..


:?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 7:20 pm 
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ez2remember wrote:
So is exoticpc a legitmate member and under what allias?

I believe exoticpc was one of silenx (Peter Kim's) aliases. There is a user ExoticPC.com who appears to represent the actual exoticpc entity. He posts some clarification of the issues between the two business entities in this thread: Review: ExoticPC SilenX 350W PSU. {EDIT: removed one jilting comment}


Last edited by aphonos on Tue May 06, 2003 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 7:24 pm 
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MikeC wrote:
At this time I am totally uninterested interested in doing ANY reviews on ANY samples from silenx.com. In fact, it is very possible that silenx.com will be banned from our forums.

As you are the man who's heart and dedication goes in to every page served from SPCR, I can certainly understand the anger and betrayal that you must feel. But whatever damage has been done to SPCR by the silenx deception is past, and the reputation of SPCR depends not on what silenx does, but on how we as a community, and especially you as the moderator and editor of this site, respond.

The site homepage says "Silent PC Review is dedicated to reviews, news and information about quiet / silent computers and components." SPCR sticks to this mission when it fulfills that purpose, and to fulfill that purpose, it is necessary to have a complete grasp of the components that are available to achieve that end. To issue a ban on reviews of products from silenx is to let the personal failures of others to limit that mission. What if someone were to build a PC featuring a Silenx by Silenx PSU: would it be ineligible to be written up as an article for SPCR? Would the forums ban all discussion of the possible merits of the Silenx PSU? Censorship and ostracization are not the tools of a free and open discussion on anything. A review of the Silenx by Silenx PSU, far from legitimizing the Silenx business, could serve just as well as a cautionary document about how sometimes more than just the product counts when deciding on purchases, while also keeping to the SPCR mission of providing information.

Quote:
There's no excuse for this. It's too late to "be sorry". :roll:

It may be to late to be sorry, but it is not too late to forgive. More specifically, to "forgive, but never forget". Take whatever measures are necessary to prevent someone from exploiting SPCR's good will again, but don't let personal feelings so readily affect the objectivity of SPCR's excellent technical content.

Quote:
IMO, reviews here are a privilege for those who sell products.

I'd like to propose a different approach: reviews are a service to your readers. To often, computer hardware reviews at small websites are simply privileges to those who sell products. Their function is like that of press releases or advertising. One of the qualities that I appreciate in SPCR, one of the reasons why the only hardware forum I frequent is SPCR, is because the reviews here are honestly designed to evaluate the merits of the product under consideration. A review of a silenx product would at least give some clarity to a situation that has been murky even before the multiple username deception was revealed.

Just my two cents. :)


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 7:49 pm 
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I'm not a bit surprised by this. There were too many clues if one just paid attention.

Peter, you have demonstrated that you have technical knowledge of these products. It is ashamed that many here will not care to read your posts from this point forward. Personally, I like hearing from any person who has true knowledge of things, regardless the topic. A negative side-effect of free speech is that one will find so many BS "truths" and over-inflated opinions on EVERYTHING in life, that for one to sort through to the facts, the last obstacle I hope to encounter is an intentional deception.

That being said, one things DOES seem to be in your favor. Unless I see a post, opinion, or measurement that says otherwise, the SilenX PSU is a great product. Although you misrepresented yourself, I do not beleive you misrepresented the product. That would have been a whole new pandora's box altogether, and more to the point, one which you surely would not have a chance for recovery. I'll put it to you this way: far more people would have posted negative comments on this thread by now if they had been robbed financially, rather than deceived intellectually. I'm not saying that character doesn't count, because indeed it does. However, in my estimation you haven't committed a crime. There are companies who are doing FAR worse than this.

I ordered the last 350w 14DBa unit Peter had (before his recent shipment came in). Here's my account of how that transaction went:

I emailed SilenX.com a question about the SilenX PSU on a Wednesday in mid-late March. Surprisingly, ten minutes later I received a call from Peter. I told him what I was interested in. He had the PSU and I placed the order. He told me that I would be receiving express delivery at a standard delivery rate (roughly $11) and that I would be receiving a power cord with it. He told me it would arrive that following Friday. The PSU was at my doorstep the following Friday around 2pm. I PM'ed him here at the forum with a "thank you". He PM'ed back with "if you have any questions just ask". I PM'ed him a couple of days later telling him I was considering an exchange of the 350w for a 400w since it had active PFC. He told me that he would make the exchange, without the 20% restocking fee, if that's what I chose to do. He did encourage me to try the 350w out to be sure, but that if I wasn't satisfied then an exchange would be made. After further reading and consideration, I decided to keep the 350w PSU. I PM'ed him with my decision. He said if I have any more questions to just ask. I told him that if I was happy with the PSU I would be ordering another one soon.

I can honestly attest that I am NOT affiliated with SilenX.com at all, in any way, shape, or form. The service I recieved from Peter cannot be topped. It was fast, the final price (delivery and all) was competitive, and he was willing to go through the extra effort of suffering a turnaround on a product without any extra charge to me had I decided to exchange my PSU -- all this in order to please me as a customer. That simply is good business.

As simple the truth be that his company played a game of deception at this forum, it is also true that he delivers the product, and he delivers it well.

Unless my PSU proves to be defective and SilenX.com chooses not to provide the assistance needed for rectification, I will be buying from Peter again.

If Mike chooses a ban, that is his right, and one which I would understand completely because I beleive he more than anybody else, takes the brunt of this. As mentioned above, this is his baby. Nobody likes to have their baby tampered with.

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Last edited by Wedge on Tue May 06, 2003 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 7:54 pm 
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Alistair wrote:
You have a great product, consumers here agree

They do :?: ExoticPC's product seems to be a great product according to MikeC's review, but I have searched through the forums and have found only a handful of users who have interacted with a Silenx PSU (from either company) and very few users who have interacted with the PSU from silenx.com who don't appear to be more aliases (I am suspicious of the postings of a handful of other users on the forums who interact with the aliases that Alistair exposed, but I won't name them, since I don't have proof). Which begs the question....Peter, are there more aliases than those that were already exposed that are a part of your ruse?

And, responding to Alistair...are we sure that the silenx from silenx really is a quality product (even putting the quality of the company aside)?

{EDIT: I saw Wedge's post after I had written most of this one...he beat me to the "Submit" button.}

I hear what you guys are saying about reviewing a unit from silenx, since it seems we don't have a good handle on what they are selling, but honestly (no pun intended), I'd rather get in touch with ExoticPC.com (whom, I might add seems to be supporting SPCR through banner ads) at this point and encourage them add isolators to their fans, switch to quieter fans, etc. It still seems difficult to sort out what happened with the original split between the companies, but in light of this thread, I have my own opinions/suspicions.

:lol: And no, I don't have any attachment to ExoticPC.com. Don't receive any kickbacks from them, etc. (Though if they'd like to send some products my way, I'd be happy to be a fan boy for them :lol: jking). A little humor there at the end of a serious post. :D


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