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 Post subject: Re: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:02 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:01 am
Posts: 18
@figment: There's a couple of things that sets high end gamer mice apart from cheaper mice. The one thing that isn't particularly useful is the ultra high resolution. They're up to 5600DPI now (if not higher), which only makes the mouse ultra sensitive (lots of cursor movement for a very small mouse movement). There's also the USB polling rate, which is 125Hz by default, which is "good enough", but 500Hz offers a noticeable improvement (slightly smoother, more responsive movement). The polling rate only goes up to 1000Hz (which actually isn't noticeably better than 500Hz), but this isn't the cause of the high frequency sound that some of these mice emit. The cause is simply a design decision from (mainly) Logitech, which affects even the lower end mice:
Quote:
Past information on this site stated the problem was with the IR/LED transmitter used in handling scroll wheel functionality: this is not the case, but the IR/LED transmitter does play a role with regards to the issue. The source of the noise is a ceramic capacitor on the the mini-PCB of all of these mice. The mini-PCB is what holds the left/right/middle buttons, as well as the scroll wheel, in addition to some very basic circuitry.

A technical description of the problem from the individual who tracked it down:

The problem isn't terribly uncommon - ceramic caps have an awful lot of good qualities. For a number of applications, properly rated ceramic caps are pretty much the ideal choice. The problem is that if there is enough voltage ripple on a ceramic cap, it will physically "ring" (Google for "ceramic capacitor microphonics"). The real kicker here is that whoever designed this for Logitech decided to pulse the wheel encoder LED at 5KHz, and due to the magic of frequency multiplication, we end up with noise at the 3rd harmonic, 15KHz which is high enough to only enough to drive some small fraction of the general population nuts. ... If Logitech were to change the sampling frequency up by 20% or more, or change the capacitor type, or just stop pulsing the thing and eat the extra couple mW of power dissipation, this issue would go away.

From http://jdc.parodius.com/logitech/


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:16 pm
Posts: 320
Location: Guelph, Canada
AhamB wrote:

@NoiseFreeGuy: I would read up on shielding and grounding for electro-smog. There is quite a lot that can be done to minimize or even remove the EMF from things like power adapters (and all sorts of other electronic devices). Simply wrapping a metal wire cage around an adapter and attaching it to the ground of the adapter may do. I'm not an expert, but I know people who do these things (modify equipment to minimize field emissions).


Thanks for this info!
I have an assortment of power adapters, some noisy some not.
The worst culprit is my HP Printer adapter. It's so bad, that I leave my printer unplugged unless I need to print. It's got a nasty high-pitched whine. Very faint, but for me it's unbearable.

The way you describe the cage, it sounds a little scary. You've got a live wire (the ground) exposed (the cage).


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:53 am
Posts: 1448
Location: Sweden
NoiseFreeGuy wrote:
The way you describe the cage, it sounds a little scary. You've got a live wire (the ground) exposed (the cage).

Ground is not a live wire. A metal computer case is connected to ground for example.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:44 am
Posts: 27
Location: Canada
Hi while I also have my doubts on this phenomenon, I'm not here to judge, I did run across this
http://www.lowemfoffice.com/shielded_mouse.htm
your best bet may be through clever modifications of your hardware, and smart placement (think KVM or other extensions), "dumb" terminals, network storage, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:15 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Sweden
Hi all!

@NoiseFreeGuy
Did you ever solve your problem?

I am actually still using an USB ball mouse with my main computer, I believe I bought the mouse back in 2001.
It´s a Logitech Wingman gaming mouse, but during the 90s this mouse was sold under lots of different names.
I have put glide pads under it now, and it works just as great as modern mice do :) .

@magu2k
Interesting link, should be an easy mod to make yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:16 pm
Posts: 320
Location: Guelph, Canada
-=ARA=- wrote:
Hi all!

@NoiseFreeGuy
Did you ever solve your problem?

I am actually still using an USB ball mouse with my main computer, I believe I bought the mouse back in 2001.
It´s a Logitech Wingman gaming mouse, but during the 90s this mouse was sold under lots of different names.
I have put glide pads under it now, and it works just as great as modern mice do :) .


No I didn't actually.
But I don't travel very much, which is when I'd need the mouse with my netbook.
For me, it's disappointing to see almost everything is going wireless today.

You're a lucky man to have that mouse! Hang onto it and treat it well. :)

I use a wired PS/2 mouse on my desktop. They're even rarer than the USB wired.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:20 am
Posts: 1
I've read all answers to this old post and most were not helpful.
A non optical mouse FELLOWES 3 BUTTON PS/2 SCROLL MOUSE
is currently listed for sale on Ebay.com (for under four dollars)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Fellowes-Wh ... 4068838%26


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 Post subject: Re: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 5:06 am
Posts: 66
Location: Launceston, Australia
True, but you also necro'd a thread by over a year, silly-billy.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:58 pm
Posts: 2
Hi,

I've read this thread with interest, and joined up to post this comment which I hope will help.

You may have heightened sensitivity to 'dirty power', which is what most cheap transformers kick out these days. This type of electric current has a lot of high frequency in it. I have an idea that may help you and other sufferers of electro-sensitivity but I haven't tried it out as I'm not a sufferer myself.

If you can operate a laptop with battery ok, but notice a difference when it is plugged in, thats because the battery is giving you much cleaner DC than the DC from an AC/DC transformer.

Your goal should be to supply your peripherals, i.e mouse and keyboard with the cleanest DC signal you can. You would need to break the 5v power supply from your usb port to your mouse but keep the data signal, this would mean hacking into a USB cable, and finding out which leads supply the 5v and breaking that connection.

You would then want to connect a 5v battery (if you do step down from 12v to 5v for instance use an audio grade power conditioner) to the power supply for the mouse.

I reckon to go all the way, you would want to get the best audio-grade power filter you could afford as that will be producing the cleanest power.

If you don't fancy the DIY part then I'm sure a local electrician would do it for a very small fee.

If anyone does try this it would be great to hear if it helped at all.

Best. Danny


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 Post subject: Re: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:48 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:58 pm
Posts: 2
.... leading on from my last post. I've just found a USB Isolator on ebay, so you wouldn't need to hack the cable..


Olimex USB-ISO usb 1000V isolator full speed for development and audio hifi dac

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Olimex-USB-IS ... 41705c696a


There is also a few low noise voltage regulators that you could use between the battery and peripheral like:
SPower HC Low Noise Voltage Regulator

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270806918718? ... 1423.l2649

If you get a battery, best to get a good ol lead-acid car battery type, rather than the new li-ion packs as the latter often have cheap voltage regulators built in already which can cause high-frequency noise!


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