I've finally solved the problem of my PC's noise by simply moving it to another room.
I detail exactly how I did it here:
http://xg.fateback.com

It's far more efficient than constantly spending more and more money on 'silent' components. I've yet to hear a silent PC that was within five feet of me. I've spent about two hundred pounds over the past few years on silent components, only to find that after silencing the power supply, and the graphics card, I could still hear my hard discs (Seagata Barracudas). Just turn off your PC, and if you can hear a difference, then it wasn't silent when it was on.

After moving my PC out of my bedroom, I now no longer have to consider what components I buy, as far as their noise making qualities are concerned. So I don't need to worry about not buying that top of the range graphics card, or that slightly cheaper hard drive, or that cheap processor heatsink and fan, because I won't be able to hear them, no matter how loud they are!

You know, someone posts something like this every three months... While I understand that it's frustrating for you that your machine isn't as quiet as you'd like, there would be no point in this site if everyone simply put there machine in another room. It's like going over to an overclocking site like ocforums.com and telling people that instead of overclocking, they should just buy faster components...

As to your hard drives, did you try any of the various hard drive silencing methods? Did you try putting them in an enclosure? Putting them on foam? Using a case with rubber grommets? After using an enclosure and foam, I only rarely hear my hard drive seeking, and only if it's doing it with a lot of intensity for long periods of time. I can't hear any idle whine at all.

Not necessarily. Putting your PC in another room can be done in lots of different ways, and there are lots of useful tips that we can share with each other. Saying that there would be no point in this site is like saying you don't want to hear about a solution that works!

No it isn't, because it costs a lot more to buy faster components, which is why people overclock. You save a hell of a lot of money by avoiding wasting time on trying to silence a PC while it's four feet from your ears, just move it to another room and it's all finished. Done. No need to ever worry again about what components you're buying.


No I didn't. And now I don't have to. Luckily I'd already reached the point where I'd realised it was a case of diminishing returns, before I got round to trying to make the hard drives any quieter.

Believe me, moving the PC to another room is by far the easiest way to solve ALL of your noise problems, without having to change a single thing about the PC at all! (Although you might want to buy one or two external CD/DVD drive enclosures so you can keep them on your desktop, like I have mine.)

xg2004 - WELCOME TO SPCR!!!

Just putting the system a room or two away is no guarantee that you won't be able to hear it. I work on a lot of other peoples systems at my house and some of them (mostly HP, Compaq, Dell, Gateway etc) are easy to hear from 2-3 rooms away. You still need to pay a little attention to parts selection when you assemble your system. You can't just throw parts at it and expect not to hear it.



I've left my system on several times at the end of the night, thinking it was shut off because I went into the room and the screen was black and it was dead quiet in the room. The next morning when I go to turn on the system, I find that it's actually been running all night! My systems are not very exoctic or expensive either. I use fairly common, easy to get parts that aren't too expensive but I just take care to make sure everything works well together.

xg2004, usually I'm nice to the new guys, but in this case, I'm going to have to be harsh in order to get my point across.

Not everyone HAS room to move their computer to another room. And sometimes the only other room available is a closet. Closets can get pretty darn hot during the summers (and by your solution, we should move to a colder environment).

Plus as Ralf Hutter mentioned, putting the computer in another room is no guarantee that it will become silent. I have a computer here in my dining room that is audible throughout the entire apartment. 6 loud hard drives and a loud PSU will do that. There's not much you can do about that and it's a nasty example of when the "Why don't you move it to a different room" fails.

Please take a look at

http://xg.fateback.com



Please re-read my original post...

So does anybody here live in a one room house?
If not, then you all have another room to put the PC in. Unless your PC is ten foot square, it will take up next to no space whatsoever in the other room. You can even build a small shelf an stick it up on the wall if you want to keep the floor space clear.
So why suggest a closet?

My PC is in an open wardrobe-type space at the top of my stairs. It has no doors. It's six feet wide. It's wide open.


I have six hard drives, a Tagan PSU, and I can't hear it at all. Nobody is saying you can't buy quiet components any more, just that if you're trying to get a SILENT set up, by far the easiest and most cost-effective way is to move it to another room.

But it seems like I've stumbled across a new 'religion' - that of ever decreasing returns and an obsession with making a PC that's three feet from your ears become silent.

In the long run, my solution is much easier.


Do you have doors in your apartment?

And finally, however quiet or noisy your PC is, if you merely move it into another room, it is bound to be (by definition) many, many decibels quieter than it was before. If you have a normal PC setup (i.e. not purposely picking the loudest components) and a normal wooden door between you and it, it will be impossible to hear it, and at least as quiet as the best, most expensive 'silent' PC that money can buy.

There's also the issue of not being able to drill holes just anywhere, which can be a problem even if you're not renting. And there's also the matter of being able to move your computers around easily. And there's a question of convenience when using a DVD drive or burner. Sure, you could use USB optical drives, but then you're paying more and you have to be very careful about limits on how far USB will reliably go.

Personally, I'm less concerned with absolute silence and more concerned with inexpensiveness and aesthetics/style. I don't have tools for making cables and sticker shock prevented me from seriously considering buying the long runs of VGA/USB I'd need (1 VGA, 1 USB, and stereo audio). Also, with the distances I'd need, both VGA and USB would be running into degradation issues.

Besides, I have multiple computers. I like being able to put them more or less wherever I want. I really don't want to think about the sprawl of cables that would be necessary to use the put-in-another-room method.

In the end, my method of putting together quiet computers by improvising on what I have and careful consideration when buying new components has certainly been less expensive, more flexible, and more aesthetic than the put-in-another-room method.

Before I silenced my computer I could hear it while watching television in the living room 12 meters away, 2 doors and 1 brick wall between. Yeah it was pretty bad.

I live in a multi-room house, but each room with a door is either a bedroom or a bathroom. Bedrooms are not where you'd want to concentrate noise, and bathrooms are inherently unsuitable environments for computers.

The other rooms, like the kitchen, dining room, and living room, are connected to each other in an open format.

That just leaves closets...

Moving the PC to another space is a fine solution, but I think it's far less relevant than simply silencing.

As mentioned, the price of quality extension cables can equal the price of quieter components.

Space: I just moved from one two-room apartment (one room for living/dining/kitchen, another bedroom) to another. Where would it go?

The solution also ignores the case that many people work in offices with PC's. Unless we go back to the server/dumb terminal days, those people will be stuck next to their PC's. I think this site adresses those people somewhat, mostly indirectly through influence and research. This is the same reason that the average corporate PC (Dell Optiplex comes to mind) is significantly quieter than the average consumer PC.

There are scenarios in which removing the PC makes the most sense. Digital recording studios often do, because even a quiet PC will raise the noise floor on a recording, and there are few drawbacks to isolating the PC. Servers of course, almost always loud, and almost always in a seperate room (for more than just noise obviously).

My very first silencing project actually involved sticking an enormously loud Dell server in the closet next to my office, then running the cables through a hole in the wallboard. Since then, I have never had that option.

Moving the PC to a new location is a perfectly valid silencing technique. But its not the holy grail, for a number of reasons:

It's not applicable to everyone. Lots of people don't have a place to move it to. (dorm rooms, apartments, etc)

It doesn't actually solve the problem. So I quiet the office by making the living room louder? That doesn't seem to accomplish much. Some people have a little-used room they can sacrifice, but some don't. As a solution, moving the computer is a bit like solving you car's exhaust problems by attaching a longer pipe: the problem is still there, you've just moved it away.

It's inconvenient For people who watch DVD's, or burn CD's, having the machine across the house will get very tiresome, very quickly. The alternative; a USB or Firewire drive at the users station defeats the purpose of the silencing effort, since external drives are almost always louder than internal ones.

It costs performance When you start running video cable that length, you start losing quality. That's important to people who run large high-resolution displays (LCD's are particularly sensitive). Gamers will also notice the reduced video quality, and increased lag times that will come with using 5m+ extension cables.

It is at least as expensive and time consuming as conventional silencing The cost of the cables, and the time required to coordinate and install is easy more than what 90% people invest in quieting their existing PC. Building a new PC from the ground up is even cheaper, since quiet parts are not necessarily any more expensive than noisey ones.


Xg2004, I'm glad that it worked for you, but don't assume that it's the best solution for most people. In your situation you're apparantly not worried about the inconvenience or performance loses, and you have a location that's very close to you workstation. For the people who can move their machines, 3m usually isn't far enough. 5m-10m would be a more typical distance. At that distance the price of the cables and the hurdles required to run them will be much higher, as will the performance loses. I also notice that a 3m monitor cable is conspicuously absent from your list of cables. That cable alone would double the cost of your cable budget. How are you getting video?

I'm saying that the purpose of the site is primarily to make your existing PC quieter. Your method simply places the computer in another location. If it works for you, great. The point is, most people who come here are hardware enthusiasts. They LIKE computer hardware, and the LIKE having their computer near them in case they want to tinker with it. Different strokes for different folks.



My comparison still holds up. People go to a website on overclocking to make their system faster with stock components. If someone went to such a site and told them to get more speed the EASY way, they'd get ignored. Part of the attraction of silencing (or overclocking) is overcoming a challenge in accomplishing your goal. Overclocking sites cater to a crowd with a particular purpose in mind... Just like SPCR. Also, as many of the fine people have mentioned in previous responses, some PCs are so loud that moving them into the next room accomplished very little. My old computer was so loud I could hear it quite well, two rooms away with two doors shut between me and it.

If you have nothing to do one Saturday, go ahead and try running your hard drives on foam... you might be surprised at how big a difference it makes.

Again, if it works for you, great. But this argument does come up occasionally from new forum members, and most people just like buying new crap to tryout in their computers.

Shoot, this dude beat me to a post like this...

I was going to put my PC in the garage so it had to go through the garage door, house door AND my door so I couldn't hear it.

I admit that point - I hadn't thought about people renting, or living in dorms, etc.
It does solve the problem if you want the room you actually have your monitor and keyboard in to be silent. It doesn't bother me that the hallway now has a PC making a noise in it. I hardly spend any time there, and when I do, I don't need silence. This solves the problem for an awful lot of people.

This does not defeat the purpose at all. I burn CDs all the time, and my CD drive is very quiet. It's far quieter to have just a CD burner on your desk, than having the whole PC under the desk, since nobody is constantly burning CDs. If I want silence, I use the DVD drive that's in my PC, (I use it for boot CDs, etc.), if I want convenience, I use the one on my desk. External drives aren't almost always louder than internal ones, why would they be? If you buy the right type, make sure it's heavy and has a metal case, it should be no louder than one mounted in a PC case. That's my experience, at least.

Nobody is suggesting using 5M+ cables. Those that can use this method presumably have a bathroom and a hallway in their house. And presumably have to get to wherever their PC is from somewhere else in the house! So put the PC there!
My video cable is 3m in length, the cheapest I could buy, and my picture is absolutely perfect (Radeon 9700 Pro card). Could you elaborate on the lag times a bit? Are you saying that the time it takes the signal to get from your mouse to the PC, and then to come back 5m down your video cable, is noticeable?

This is incorrect. I priced up the items on my website, and it came to less than £40. If I had been putting the PC immediately next to the first wall I went through, it would have cost about £20. As far as time consuming goes, it's a one off thing. I never need to do it again. It did take me a lot of time, but I now no longer need to think "Shall I buy that graphics card? Oh no, I can't, unless I buy a Zalman silent heatsink for £25 as well." I now have a nice 80mm fan blowing at top speed over my hard drives, which I would never have used before. I've nothing against using quiet components, it's just that if you want to (for example) overclock your system, or even keep your hard drives cool, you're going to have some degree of noise, so that amount of cooling simply isn't possible to achieve (for the £2.00 that it cost me for my 80mm fan) in a silent PC setup.

There was no inconvenience, and certainly NO performance losses.

Obviously! Most people have houses with rooms in, of some sort! You just position your monitor and keyboard next to a wall, and put the PC on the other side of it.

I really don't understand this. Why?

As I said above, you simply put your monitor and desk next to the wall you want your PC to be on the other side of, and the total distance is about 1.5m.


I forgot it - I'll add it in to my site right now.

And it didn't double the cost of my cable budget! It was (if I remember correctly) about £9 - £10 for 3 lengths of 1.5m extension cable, from Ebay, and this was all included in the final figure of £40.00.

So do I. It's about ten feet away from me. I pass it every time I go into my bedroom and every time I go out of it!


No it isn't, because it costs a lot more to buy faster components, which is why people overclock. You save a hell of a lot of money by avoiding wasting time on trying to silence a PC while it's four feet from your ears, just move it to another room and it's all finished. Done. No need to ever worry again about what components you're buying.

This is just nuts. If you could silence your PC easily, why would you choose a more difficult way? Why not just buy the noisiest components you could afford and then try your hardest to make them quieter? Isn't that more fun?
I overcame a challenge- I moved the PC. This was not an easy task. It didn't magically happen. I had to plan it out.

I obviously agree that such a PC should have quieter components, and I've nothing against quiet components, but there is a law of diminishing returns. I came to this site a year ago, and there was nothing about moving your PC to a different room. It hadn't even occurred to me! So I spent hours of my time, and lots and lots of money, buying different quiet components, and still never achieved silence. I sincerely doubt that anybody here has a SILENT PC in their room, and if they do, I bet it cost an arm and a leg to do, and that they had to carefully consider every component they bought, for noise. I've finally been able to give up that useless way of thinking, I caught myself wondering if a new graphics card I was interested in had a passive heatsink, and then realised that I didn't need to worry about it!

What I'm saying is that there are many other people, like me, who want to silence their PC. They don't want to have a challenge, they just want it silent. So they come to sites like this (where else would you expect to find advice about silencing your PC) and they find nothing about moving the PC, but lots about constantly changing components, and spending LOTS of money in achieving a quieter, but not SILENT PC.

A nice article that said "There are two options: 1. Move your PC (read article here), and 2. Silence all of its components (read the rest of the site)" would suffice.


Will they still be as cool as they are now?



Nothing wrong with that. I have a Zalman flower cooler on my CPU, and no plans to change it any time soon.

All I am trying to say is, that most people will only achieve SOME degree of silencing when they change components in their PC, and will still (just like I did) hear that 'last' noise that won't go away. Doing that AND moving the PC results in complete, perfect silence.

http://xg.fateback.com

Hey, I think your idea is cool and all. I like the way you set it up, etc.

I just think that the backlash is because you're basically saying "mod your living quarters" instead of "mod your pc".

The PC is *usually* easier to work on and doesn't require new drywall/drilling if you decide to move, etc.

I can also understand about not being able to get a completely Silent PC. It can be frustrating at times, but when all is said and done, a box that is more quiet than when you started (that day) gives me (and I'm sure others) great satisfaction.

Besides, I can just unplug it and take the silence with me.

How much will it cost me to purchase a VGA extension cable that's long enough AND GOOD ENOUGH in quality to allow me to put Alpha Three two rooms over and STILL MAINTAIN THE SAME IMAGE QUALITY at 1944x14?? resolution at 70Hz on my NEC FE1250+? It's rather important to me to run that resolution because of my line of work, I will not compromise image quality one bit, and I do not see a viable solution to this problem...

There are always impracticalities to deal with no mater what solution. You may think that moving the computer to another room is easy, but it most certainly isn't if you are looking to maintain the same standards of operation; the longer your VGA cable, the worse your image quality, unless you're running a display that has DVI; then you're limiting yourself to just one resolution, and there's no way in frozen hell I'm limiting myself to just one low resolution (or the severely limited color gamut) of an LCD display while doing digital imaging and layout.

It is nearly impossible to maintain the level of image quality I have with my FE1250+ if I must move Alpha Three to another room; for some people, such as myself, this is absolutely not a viable solution one bit.

We're SPCR for a reason; we're here to look at every viable solution, but none of us should ever say, "this is the only solution..." or, "that is the only solution." I thought that by now, our community had established itself as the most open-minded, but I guess some people have to go and prove me wrong.

This goes out to those who also completely cast off moving the computer to another room as a solution; it can work, but it's very limited in scope. If you'd fine with one resolution on a digital LCD, and are willing to deal with a USB 2.0 or IEEE1394x external optical drive and wireless keyboard and mouse, then by all means, congratulations, you've got your solution; bye! I agree, it works great, if those limitations aren't an issue to you.

Of course, at the same time, if it were that easy for you, what else is there to say around here, we're we are dealing with getting around those very limitations?

-Ed

Sure, but the hallway is for walking through, not for tripping over a computer. A bathroom? Besides being far away (next to the bedrooms), they aren't good for putting computers in. Ever notice the water that condenses on a mirror during a shower?



Usually, the other side of the wall is the OUTSIDE. I tend to place TV and computer monitor displays against the same side of the room as the windows. Why? So that the display isn't crippled in the daytime from the glare.

My main computing room is bordered by:

1) The outside
2) The foyer (no door)
3) A wall to the den (no door between the den and foyer)
4) The dining room (no door)

The only real wall available is the one between the computing room and the den--and the den is where the big screen TV is. Also, this wall is opposite the window to the outside--a monitor there would be basically unusable in the daytime.

Basically, a lot of us value the flexibility to have a computer where we want it.

On a related side note, since moving to a quieter location, I've noticed that my Samsung monitor buzz is now almost as loud as, and vastly more irritating than the rest of my system.

Not trying to pick nits, just to mention that the goal of silence is a relative one, and not always confined to that beige box on the floor.

I also think that this site simply aims at silencing computers period. Moving them to a different place is not silencing, it's just . . . moving.

The first time I silenced it was by moving into a closet. This was 4 years ago, before SPCR, and I thought it was fairly obvious at the time. Notice also that this site does not cover PC isolation enclosures, even though they are readily available for the recording market.

Yo, xg2004, did it ever occur to you that perhaps, just maybe... it's time to cut your losses & run?

BTW, I am planning a home theater installation which will include HTPC. The home theater setup was planned prior to studding of the walls such that I had total freedom to install CAT5, speaker wire, coax, etc. into the walls. I considered remotely locating my HTPC and there's still somewhat of a chance I will do so. If I do it I would want the installation to look good, perhaps using a custom black anodized front panel for the remoted DVD drive & ports. However, I ultimately concluded that the work & expense involved with remoting a DVD drive, A/V ports, power/reset & keyboard/mouse and making the installation look good to be more than simply building a quiet PC in the first place. I've always been annoyed by loud PC's and after completing several very quiet custom PC builds, I can say that it is not difficult nor expensive to "roll your own" quiet PC if you pay attention to proper component selection.

I do agree with you that you do not need to sacrafice either performance or convenience w/ the remote PC "silence" solution. However, you will need to stay within the required max. distance limitations for the interfaces you will be extending. If my memory serves me correct that is only 3' for SATA, 10' for USB and 15' for video both VGA & DVI. I believe firewire is good for 50' or more! I also don't think Rusty's comment about (detectable) lag time increases due to longer copper runs is valid.

It may be just me, but I don't think you'll win many converts here!

No dude, it isn't just you.

My house is arranged as a series of rooms on a hallway. The broadband router is in my room and to route the LAN to my mothers room 5m away, I had to use a 17m long CAT5 cable because I had to run the cable along the seams to make it acceptable to my mom. And I have significant loss.
By the way, if I was to route it across the walls, I'd have to drill through 40 cm of reinforced concrete and ruin at least two ceramic tiles in the bathroom that have gone out of production. And this is just for a CAT5 cable. Add to that a CRT cable, mouse, keyboard, USB, sound, etc. No way.

I AM thinking of moving WOTAN to another room. That machine is a server. Runs server software and F@H and I hardly touch it's keyboard. No need to buy a silent HSF or encase the old Maxtor. That's a reasonable move since I don't need to run monitor/kb/mouse/sound/usb through anything. Just a LAN cable or maybe I'll invest in wireless. Still, it'll be audiable in my room. But my main PC, THOR, no practical way.

Thus, as has been pointed out, moving is a way only on particular instances and setups.

Side note: If your PC is as quiet as you say, I hope it's folding

So I think that what some of you are basically trying to say is:
We've spent ages and loads of money trying to make our PCs silent, while keeping them in the same room, and along you come and tell us to move our PCs into a different room, where we know we won't be able to hear them at all. I am presuming that all of you still have SOME noise from your PC at the moment.
Then we have the "It would cost me x,000 pounds to move it" and almost paranoid explanations as to why YOU in particular can't move your PC! For most people (i.e. not the members of this forum who have responded so far...) moving their PC to the next room is by far the best and most efficient way of silencing their PC. Obviously getting out of the "I've got to silence it while it's sitting next to me" mindset is hard - even I still have to stop myself from even considering noise when I look at new hardware.

So have any of you actually got PCs that are completely silent? If so, I'm more than interested in hearing about your setups. And just as importantly, how much all the components cost.

It might sound like that. I'm NOT saying "don't mod your PC", I'm just saying "Mod your PC a little (i.e. as cheaply and conveniently as possible, without compromising heat problems) and then MOVE it to another room, IF POSSIBLE". Which isn't mentioned on this site at all.

For those of you who have a house with only one giant 100' by 100' room in it, and two feet thick walls, DON'T MOVE YOUR PC!
For the rest of us, moving the PC will get rid of 100% of the noise it's currently making, presuming it doesn't sound like a jet engine at the moment. And will cost a hell of a lot less than constantly searching for quieter components.

It's an endless task, I know, I used to do it, and got so fed up that I gave up. I gave up and moved the PC. Which worked. Period.

The point being - thousands of people who want to silence their PCs, by whatever method, come to this site, and not realising how easy it is to move the whole PC, adopt the usual methods of quietening down various components. This takes a lot of money. And has to be applied to every new component you buy. Which is many components, every year (presuming you keep your PC relatively up to date). If you move the PC, just ONCE, that's it. Over with. No more need to consider what components you are buying. Period. Why is that such a bad thing?


Of course! And I've nothing against that at all. But it's a great shame that this site doesn't mention the final part of the equation - i.e. for those of us who simply want silence, who don't want to tinker endlessly (although I personally love doing that, loads of PC owners just want silence, today, and don't want to have to keep 'aware' of everything they buy in order to maintain that silence.)


I really do think that some of you are protesting too much. You're acting as if I've commanded you to move your PCs, and that's it!

How many of you have silent PCs that are really silent?[/b]

It sure is 'relative' if you keep the PC in the same room...

No, it's silencing.
What are you all trying to achieve, in the end? A silent workplace. A silent room with your monitor and keyboard in it.
If this site doesn't include the simply act of moving the computer, then it's doing a great disservice to many potential readers of it. What possible point is there in pretending that moving the PC isn't the answer to the problem, if it's possible for you to do so?
Why presume that just because you can't move your PC (though for most of you it's very doubtful, but not my problem) that other people won't want to, once they read about it?


Well then, it should.

And I'm really surprised that any recording studios don't put their PC in another room too. They presumably have a reception area, or a toilet, or anywhere other than the studio, to put it!

Obviously not. I'm sure that plenty of people who come to this site will benefit from my website, and will move their PC, and be very happy with the complete silence, rather than just quietness, that they achieve.

That's strange, because my whole move cost me £40. Can you build a SILENT PC for even ten times that price, let alone a QUIET one?

Thanks for that. I DO already know how to build a very quiet PC, unfortunately I wanted SILENCE. Which I easily achieved.

I see that I am indeed dealing with an almost 'cult like' mentality here. My mere mention of moving a PC is seen as heresy around these parts. Which is laughable, since it gives you exactly what you claim to want: silence.

If all you want is to spend money on diminishing returns, why not rename the site? Silent PC means silence. Which means (in a lot of cases) simply moving it out of the room.

If you use watercooling, and the radiator and fan are put outside your window, does that exclude that product from this site? It's just nuts!

I wasn't aware of any SATA interfaces for external drives.

Mine's at about 14' at least, and works fine.

Mine's at at least 15'.
You may not be aware but you can buy a unit (KVM? I've forgotten the name) that studios use to pipe all the picture, keyboard, etc. data down one wire. I didn't want to spend this much money, but obviously some of the members here don't even know this exists. You can have runs easily in the HUNDREDS of metres with this, as the signal is amplified by a control box.

So the real issue is: you've all spent loads of money and time in trying to achieve absolute silence, and sound like you've failed, otherwise why so many incredibly negative "I can't possibly do THAT" responses to a harmless and helpful solution to your problem?
I know what it's like to try to silence a PC. I've experienced the feeling of "Oh - I didn't realise my PSU was making so much noise" after I got a Zalman flower cooler. Then I got a silent PC, and thought "I didn't realise my hard drives were making so much noise". Then I gave up. And moved it.

Good - I thought it was rubbish too.


Which is very telling.
Had I been a member of this site a year ago, and struggling to silence my PC (and I mean really silence it), and somebody had come along and shown me how easy it was to move my PC, I'd have welcomed him with open arms, not acted like somebody was trying to destroy my 'party'.

This post reminds me of this, but less drastic.

Enjoy.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/news41.html