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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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hi, <BR>i am going nuts about this noise!! talking about my cpu fan, wow! when i goto sleep at night, i still can hear this fan in my ear! first, I was thinking to replace this fan with a silent one which is advertised as 25dB something. but now, i am thinking to place this pc in a completely another room. to do this, i need extra-long monitor cable like 10m something. i like to know, will such a cable have disadvantages? where can i find such a cable? <BR>thanx! <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif">
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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You can also try <br><!-- BBCode Start --><A HREF="http://www.networktechinc.com/cable-pc.html" TARGET="_blank">Network Technologies Inc.</A><!-- BBCode End -->
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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Thanks for the advice and the links guys. that belkin produce nice cables i guess, but who wants to buy a 30 feet monitor extension cable for 200$? i just found a 10m (around 30feet) monitor cable for 15$. plus with the mouse and keyboard cables it makes around 30$ (of course i need one more cable for the sound system:)) Come on guys i am talking about 0dB(zero)!! i am only going to replace this thing in the hall or something. And i have only two expectations: no signal loss & not to get tired going back and forth to change cd-rom:))) <br> <br>mutluturk <br> <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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If no signal loss is one of your aims, I have to wonder about your 10M $15 cable. That sounds WAY too cheap to be any good. I extended my monitor just 4 feet with a cheap cable and the quality loss was absolutely unacceptable. Traded within 24 hrs to the expensive one. Tell us how it works out -- if it's good, I'm sure lots of folks will want to know your source.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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Hi, <br> I used to run my PC outside of my studio control room. Cheap PS2 cables for both the mouse and keyboard worked fine. (I actually used 2 x entension cables daisy chained) <br> I ended up making my own video cables (2 x for a Matrox dualhead) these were both 15 metres long with no quality loss. If you're handy with a soldering iron I can send through some scans showing you how to do it, and also what cable I used. (These cables would allow you to run at least 50 metres without loss). <br> You can buy great pre-made cables........but you definately will have to 'pay' for 'em (high quality = high cost) <br> <br> Regards.......Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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of course i am intrested in 50m, hand-made, no signal loss cables (like everyone else here i guess). I am still confused about buying a pre-made expensive monitor cable, so if you please send some scans showing how to do it, i`ll be very glad. <br> <br>thanx. <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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>> I ended up making my own video cables (2 x for a Matrox dualhead) these were both 15 metres long with no quality loss. If you're handy with a soldering iron I can send through some scans showing you how to do it, and also what cable I used. (These cables would allow you to run at least 50 metres without loss). <br> <br>Is this offer still up? <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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VGA 50 foot $200? <br>I bought one from either eCost.com or OnSale.com 2 years ago for my KVM switch for less than $40. It was three cables bonded together, VGA and two PS/2s. Everything works great at 800x600. 1024x768 isn't as crisp as it should be. <br> <br>You can also you a KVM Extender (without the KVM switch). It will take the VGA, keyboard, and mouse and transmit it over a "dedicated" CAT5 cable nearly 500ft. <br> <br>If you didn't care about quality <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> you could do 2.4ghz wireless video/sound and get an RF keyboard and mouse (most are short range, but I've seen one on TigerDirect that is supposed to work from another room). <br>


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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>>hi, <br>>> i like to know, will such a cable have disadvantages? where can i find such a cable? <br>>>thanx! <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif"> <br> <br>Anytime I need a bunch of cables I get them from <!-- BBCode Start --><A HREF="http://www.cables.cc" TARGET="_blank">Cable Connections</A><!-- BBCode End -->. They've got a variety of monitor extension cables that might suit you at prices far better than Belkin (whom we might call "Bilk 'em"). Here's a link for their monitor cables: <br><!-- BBCode Start --><A HREF="http://www.cables.cc/cgi/cart.pl?db=stuff.dat&category=DB15" TARGET="_blank">http://www.cables.cc/cgi/cart.pl?db=stuff.dat&category=DB15</A><!-- BBCode End -->
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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I tried this approach many years ago, and was very disappointed with the video quality - even with very thick, expensive video cables, I would see 'shadowing' on the monitor when running at higher video refresh rates and higher resolutions (eg, 75Hz, 1024x768). I slowed down the refresh, which reduced the shadowing, but that introduced flicker. Using cheaper cables only made it worse. I don't expect much from my PC, but I do expect good display quality! <br> <br>So are you guys serious that you can run hundreds of feet without any visible degradation? Now that I have a flat screen, maybe the refresh rates can be lowered and thus cause less of a problem. My office is next to my laundry room, so I have the ideal place to stash the PC if this were practical. <br> <br>I'm also interested in using the network to implement this. I have a great laptop, which is pretty 'silent', and an ethernet network. I've tried PC Anywhere (and the free VNC), but if I try to run at high color depth, and decent screen sizes, the response is too slow even on a 100 MBit network. My main use for the PC, other than email and browsing, is Photoshop editing of photos, which obviously demands the very best video quality. <br> <br>
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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Hi all, <br> <br>Putting your pc in another room is definately the way to go. I have broadband (still quite rare in the UK!) and a PC primarily used for Quake3, so it runs pretty hot etc. The Antec SX-635 shifts a lot of air, and the Antec PSU sounds like an aircraft taking off. No way could I get to sleep with it on, and I wasn't getting the most out of the 24/7 cable as I had to switch the PC off everynight. Highly annoying. <br>I thought about replacing the PSU with the Enermax variable, thought about a hard drive enclosure, thought about damping materials in the case etc etc but decided that although this might make for some quieter pc'ing, I wanted silence, not just less noise. <br>So, down to Maplin, 40 quid (100 US$ ?) on a quality 5 meter SVGA cable, mouse and keyboard extensions and an audio extension and game on. Desktop resolution is 1280*1024 and no ghosting or fuzz, and no difference playing quake. Still have to get an extension for the TV-OUT (for all those downloaded divx movies:>) and a USB extension so I'm not sure what the total cost will be, but it is awesome now not hearing the pc at all. Silence truly is golden. <br>The PC is in the cupboard in the hall, so there are two doors between it and me. The XP1800+ can run quite hot, so I have Motherboard Monitor (http://mbm.livewiredev.com/) running to ensure things don't get out of hand. The money spent has been well worth it, the only drawback is using the CD\CD Burner. Haven't quite worked out how to deal with that one yet - anybody got any ideas? How long can an IDE cable run ?! <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> <br> <br>Cheers, <br>fatneck.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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Check out <!-- BBCode auto-link start --><a href="http://www.networktechinc.com" target="_blank">http://www.networktechinc.com</a><!-- BBCode auto-link end --> they've got loads of cables and are nice and cheap - they guarantee no signal loss up to 500ft for 800x600 (not the best resolution but gives you and idea) I'm kinda tired of trying diff fan arrangements and I'm not gonna splash out on watercooling just to be distrubed by a water pump humming! So I'm gonna stick my puter in my wardrobe and connect it to it's periphals with 25ft of SVGA+PS/2 cable. I've tested the arrangement already and it works perfectly - I can't hear the puter <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> Slience at last! <br> <br>Dizz
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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A possible solution for the CD/CDRW problem would be an external one, either USB or Firewire. You can also find external enclosures for your exsisting drive. That way you could have it in the room with you and the monitor. It wouldn't be silent, of course, but it would only be making noise while its in use.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:06 pm 
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Yeah I considered this also.. simply move the whole PC into another room, lock the door..... wake up 3 hours later open the door see the smoke and fire :D

At the end of the day its gonna be quite hard since USB/firewire cables can only run around 5 metres long. And same with my USB Explorer optical :(

Think its best just to go the Shuttle SS51 route, buy a seagate barracuda I hear there around 2-3 db (noiseless) and get a Zalman GPU heatpipe heatsink for your lovely new Radeon 9700 AIW :P

I only got into quiet Pcs due to the fact im in a small bedroom and the PCs like 1 metre away from my head, so leaving it on while sleeping is not so nice especially when your on 56K!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 2:08 am 
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Well last night i ordered a SVGA extension cable thinking it would work fine, but now this threads got me worried :roll: :D

I got it from maplin in the UK - which cable did you buy fatneck? I paid £5 for a 2 metre extension. Its only short compared to what you guys are talking about (ooh err! :P ) so im hoping it should be ok :) Should arrive today or tomorrow so ill let you know :wink:

But something did strike me when i decided to order it! Is putting it in a cupboard or other room cheating?!? Maybe not i dont know, but im kinda proud of how quiet my PC is already, and it seems almost a shame to put it in the cupboard.

I know id rather have a silent PC rather than a PC in a cupboard - but i guess silence is the final goal :P Any views?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 4:40 am 
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Hmm, well the cable was quite poor - looked like my screen was a low quality jpeg image. So im gonna order Belkins highest quality cable!

Ironically after rambling on in the fans section about Uk consumers being ripped off, the belkin cable i want (2m/6' Pro series High Integrity - F3H981-06) is £17 from dabs.co.uk whereas from belkins own site it is $46!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 10:20 am 
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Rather than stringing expensive cables throughout the house another way to move the noise to another room is to use 2 pc's and connect them with the Remote Desktop Connection feature in Windows XP. That way you only have to run 1 CAT5 cable, instead of a bundle for video, mouse, keyboard.

I use this system to connect to the 4 other machines I have at home that I use as a render farm. Even at full screen 1024x768 the video is lag free and full quality.

Although in my setup the more powerful machine is here in the room with me, you could just as easily reverse it. Imagine a fanless VIA C3 connectly to a screamimg dual-Xeon monster down the hall! All the performance, none of the noise.

The remote computer doesn't need a monitor, keyboard or mouse; and the local machine could get by with a very small hard drive that you could set to spin down after you've connected to the remote machine.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 10:14 pm 
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How does XP's remote desktop compare with, say, VNC (VNC is a free-ware program that works very well, in general). Given that it's from microsoft, and they can access the raw info better than any 3rd party, I could imagine it's better but you never know.

FYI, we use VNC at work to access servers from our desktops, and we have found that either the CPU and/or the graphics card of the 'source' machine (the remote machine) is the governing factor for response time; that is, if your remote machine is a screamer, then you should be OK using a remote approach. Some of our servers are dogs and using VNC to access them is a joke.

But - even with a screaming remote machine, I can't imagine it's good enough for watching DVDs, or playing games, or even doing serious photoshop - or is it?

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 Post subject: it is ok, do it!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:20 am 
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well i did it, i bought a 5m extension cable for my samsung flat monitor and very happy. first i was thinking it didn`t work :shock: cause video was not bright or colorful like it used to i thought, but switching the old short and the new long cables for a few days, i realized that there was actually no one damn difference! :lol: the name of the cable is "AK-3740 5M HDDB15e/HDDB15d " i dont know who produces it or if it is sold in US, i bought it in Turkey, here is the url just to proove that it is only $8:(it is a turkish site)
http://www.hepsiburada.com/product.asp? ... 7H5MSC5MNE
it is not a very cheap quality one, i had seen worst cables during searching, but this is medium quality and works beautifull.
i am sure you too can find the right extension cables for your pc, search for it, and let that fan work minimum 5 m away from you, preferably in the hall or in the next room.. i dont think you need to put it in a cupboard or something, it is enough if it is not in the same room with you. so mine is in the hall, and it is not only quite... silence is golden :D :D


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:28 am 
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Regarding the Remote Desktop feature in XP, i dont think it would really be possible for it to work like this.

Say for example you wanted to play a game at 1024x768 at 24 bit colour depth, then that is roughly 3Mbs per screen. Times by 60 frames per second, is 180Mb per second. Which is well beyond the capability of even gigabit ethernet. Same would apply for watching DVD although the framerate would be about half, and the res slightly lower.

So im using this to conclude that the programs will actually be running on the local machine and not the remote host machine. Although its possible i may be wrong :roll: i cant see how using remote desktop would actually get you better performance from a low spec PC. I dont really think its a practical everyday solution for quiet computing...

Just my 2c :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 6:21 pm 
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For watching DVD's or playing fast-paced games I agree, the network bandwidth isn't high enough to sustain the frame rates. As an experiment I tried playing an avi file on my remote machine. The highest resolution I could play without dropping frames was 640 by 480. Although at this size the network throughput was only about 25Mbps, so I wonder is some of the problem may be caused by the wimpy 4meg PCI graphics card in that remote machine. I might try to set it up in reverse, using that machine as the local and my more powerful box as the remote, to see if that makes a difference. I'll be able to attempt to play DVD's that way too.


But for programs like Photoshop, this system seems to work pretty well.
I installed Photoshop 7 on the remote machine. (Which is a PIII 866 with a gig of RAM) Using it remotely from my machine worked surprising well. Not as smooth or responsive as my local machine (Which is an XP 1900+), but definetly usable. The performance actually reminded me alot of what it's like to run photoshop on the Mac's at school. Sluggish, but workable. (I hope that not too many mac users hang out in this forum :roll: )

By using Taskmanager to compare what was going on in each machine I can definetly say that the application is NOT being run on the local machine, it is running only on the remote.

My current theory is that the performance is being limited either by the weak graphics hardware, or by the inherent latency in the network cards and router. I'm going to try the same experiment with a couple of my other machines that have different hardware to compare the results.

I'll let you know how that goes.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 4:39 am 
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Rusty075 wrote:
By using Taskmanager to compare what was going on in each machine I can definetly say that the application is NOT being run on the local machine, it is running only on the remote.


Ok, i stand corrected! :roll: So i guess it depends on what you use your comp for as to whether this is a viable solution. Will be interesting finding out what results you find.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:56 am 
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Well ive made the move now (found my monitor cable just about stretches into the cupboard ;)). And i have to say its the best silencing mod i have ever done! Its quite surreal sitting looking at the screen in absolute silence :P

Just posting really so say that for anyone else who has done this, do you find having to go somewhere else to turn ur computer on is annoying? I knew it would annoy me before i even did it. So i found an old computer and cut off the mobo connector for the power switch. Then i soldered on a longer stretch of cable (about 2m) and soldered a momentary switch on the end of the 2m cable. I now have the switch for my comp next to the monitor. If anyone wants anymore info on this i will elaborate further ;)

If you dont have an old computer, you can always use the Power or HD access LED connector from your current comp. Since its hidden away your not gonna see it anyway ;)

Now gotta save £600 for a LCD and G550 cos the monitor buzzing is annoying :P :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2002 11:01 pm 
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Rusty075 wrote:
For watching DVD's or playing fast-paced games I agree, the network bandwidth isn't high enough to sustain the frame rates. As an experiment I tried playing an avi file on my remote machine. The highest resolution I could play without dropping frames was 640 by 480. Although at this size the network throughput was only about 25Mbps, so I wonder is some of the problem may be caused by the wimpy 4meg PCI graphics card in that remote machine. I might try to set it up in reverse, using that machine as the local and my more powerful box as the remote, to see if that makes a difference. I'll be able to attempt to play DVD's that way too.

Rusty075 wrote:
My current theory is that the performance is being limited either by the weak graphics hardware, or by the inherent latency in the network cards and router. I'm going to try the same experiment with a couple of my other machines that have different hardware to compare the results.


Much of the problem probably has to do with the fact that video cards are usually optimized for blasting bits onto the screen. Getting them back off the card and into main memory for sending off to another machine can be very slow, sometimes as low as 1/100th of the theoretical max.

Check out this article that describes why we can't yet use GeForces as non-realtime renderers.

http://www.tech-report.com/etc/2002q3/a ... dex.x?pg=1

(Of course Remote Desktop might just as well be intercepting all GDI calls and building the desktop image entirely in main memory, which would totally invalidate this theory - but in that case slow video hardware couldn't be the culprit either.)

Angus


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2002 8:58 pm 
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Remote desktop doesnt support 3d acceleration. I have a home lan, i tried to run warcraft/wolfenstein through remote desktop. It would give me an error, something about not being able to run Opengl (for wolfenstein). Warcraft wouldnt run either, drawing error or something

Windows media player worked though, even in fullscreen. Still choppy on a 10mbps lan


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