Single Moving Part PC in Silverstone TJ08
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Single Moving Part PC in Silverstone TJ08
SMPPC in Silverstone TJ08
note -- Of interest to mini-ITX and other small box system builders is the modded heatpipe heatsink used here.
note -- Of interest to mini-ITX and other small box system builders is the modded heatpipe heatsink used here.
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Squealing power board?
You mentioned electronic squeal. I have personally experienced that with an older DC-DC board from mini-box. My hearing is pretty good, so it really bugged me. I replaced it with a picoPSU, and the squeal was gone. I've never heard a picoPSU squeal at all.
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Re: Squealing power board?
It's at so low a level it's not really there at all.Worker control wrote:You mentioned electronic squeal. I have personally experienced that with an older DC-DC board from mini-box. My hearing is pretty good, so it really bugged me. I replaced it with a picoPSU, and the squeal was gone. I've never heard a picoPSU squeal at all.
I think this is where silent computing could be heading. A single very-slow large exhaust fan keeps air flowing slowly, and passive coolers silently take advantage of it. The versatility of HSF heatpipes is good information, and the 120mm food-bin duct cools it effectively (better than a 92mm fan + duct on the HS). That PSU is crazy. Computer hardware really is getting to the point where silent and efficient can get you a very respectable system.
I don't know anything about ATI's hardware, but I'm being told HD 3000 is good for games. I was first impressed by integrated graphics with GMA900, and I'm really happy that integrated graphics is moving forward. I'm uncertain about Intel's plans since I like discrete graphics cards too, but silent efficient and cheap integrated graphics makes building a desktop computer much better.
I don't know anything about ATI's hardware, but I'm being told HD 3000 is good for games. I was first impressed by integrated graphics with GMA900, and I'm really happy that integrated graphics is moving forward. I'm uncertain about Intel's plans since I like discrete graphics cards too, but silent efficient and cheap integrated graphics makes building a desktop computer much better.
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But it's $50, has only 3 heatpipes. Personally I'd get the $35 Xigmatec direct-touch HDT-D1284 and bend it.lucas82 wrote:you can also use Rosewill RCX-Z4 (a.k.a. akasa evo 120)
MikeC: May I suggest testing that system with a NinjaII without the fan? The modded HS looks very dandy indeed, but I have found that a similar set up with an undervolted 89W TDP chip and a NinjaII works fanless for me. Add a case fan at any speed to the mix and there is no need to undervolt. My thinking is that a NinjaII should fit that case but wouldn't need any DIY modding to give at least the same effect.
That build is very nice!
The 760G may be discontinued, I don't know anything about that, but there are five other models available here.
The 760G may be discontinued, I don't know anything about that, but there are five other models available here.
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I'm sure you're right. As stated in the review, the original case this system was intended for is an Antec nsk1380, which is a breadbox mATX SFF case where the OD cage intrudes into the space over the CPU -- hence the modded heatsink... which was unnecessary in the Silverstone TJ08 but used anyway because it was already there.Tobias wrote:MikeC: May I suggest testing that system with a NinjaII without the fan? The modded HS looks very dandy indeed, but I have found that a similar set up with an undervolted 89W TDP chip and a NinjaII works fanless for me. Add a case fan at any speed to the mix and there is no need to undervolt. My thinking is that a NinjaII should fit that case but wouldn't need any DIY modding to give at least the same effect.
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Right, I should have checked more carefully, the MSI board isn't mentioned anywhere at MSI anymore or available anywhere.Mats wrote:That build is very nice!
The 760G may be discontinued, I don't know anything about that, but there are five other models available here.
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Sure but we'd never hang that monster off a board -- only safe on top, imo.Vibrator wrote:Judging from the amount of space you have, I thnk a Scythe Orochi running passive would fit
Last edited by MikeC on Sun May 31, 2009 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I did not warm them up. Just bent with both sides well supported in my hands, and once I could get access to it, the "crook" of the bent portion supported against the padded arm of an office chair. I did it very slowly and did not bend back again to avoid any back/forth action that might break or crack the heatpipe.Thomas wrote:Did you simply bend the heatpipes, or did you warm them up first to make them softer"
With the Triton 75, you probably need to brace the heatpipes midway between the fins and base against a padded or rounded edge so that the heatpipes will not bend right where they meet the base. If they do, once you have the fins at right angle to the base, the pipes might hang too low and interfere with the NB heatsink or some other parts on your motherboard.
If you bend the pipes just where they meet the fins, the end result might be too tall.
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That's very nice. Heatsink after bending reminded Akasa one discontinued heatsinks, unfortunately it wasn't terribly good performer if believing reviews. Single slow rpm fan... Impressive.
Whole price category is slightly different than in high end HTPC set-up with no moving parts, just presented in Muropaketti. But its price was around 1,800€s... Too bad that Coolputer which built it, probably cannot send review sample to SPCR. It would have been nice to see that being reviewed.
Whole price category is slightly different than in high end HTPC set-up with no moving parts, just presented in Muropaketti. But its price was around 1,800€s... Too bad that Coolputer which built it, probably cannot send review sample to SPCR. It would have been nice to see that being reviewed.
Thanks, I'll give it a try, hopefully soonMikeC wrote:I did not warm them up. Just bent with both sides well supported in my hands, and once I could get access to it, the "crook" of the bent portion supported against the padded arm of an office chair. I did it very slowly and did not bend back again to avoid any back/forth action that might break or crack the heatpipe.Thomas wrote:Did you simply bend the heatpipes, or did you warm them up first to make them softer"
With the Triton 75, you probably need to brace the heatpipes midway between the fins and base against a padded or rounded edge so that the heatpipes will not bend right where they meet the base. If they do, once you have the fins at right angle to the base, the pipes might hang too low and interfere with the NB heatsink or some other parts on your motherboard.
If you bend the pipes just where they meet the fins, the end result might be too tall.
Whats wrong with just using the 1283 tower heatsink with a longer duct? Seems to me it would be much easier to do with less chance at breaking something.MikeC wrote:Personally I'd get the $35 Xigmatec direct-touch HDT-D1284 and bend it
Also, whats the point of using an AC/DC adapter coupled with a DC/DC converter when they are both inside the pc enclosure? isn't the entire point to move the heat generated through AC to DC conversion be put on the outside of the case? If your going to just keep all the heat inside a case anyhow, wouldn't it be better to just use a good passive ATX powersupply?
I'd also love to see something like this made retail. While im sure you picked the components you did based just on what you had available to you at the time, i think this list would be best:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/Publi ... r=11294146
Case: Antec NSK3480 (Thermally Separated PSU region w/ 120mm rear exhaust fan)
PSU: FSP Group Zen 400w
HDD: Intel x25-m 80g
Fan: 120mm Scythe S-Flex 1200rpm w/ zelman fan controller
Heatsink: Xigmatek HDT-S1283 w/ backplate mounting
Add whatever your personal favorite low heat output components you want into it.
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Nothing. I've already explained why that particular hs was used.Aris wrote:Whats wrong with just using the 1283 tower heatsink with a longer duct?
Most definitely a point.Also, whats the point of using an AC/DC adapter coupled with a DC/DC converter when they are both inside the pc enclosure? isn't the entire point to move the heat generated through AC to DC conversion be put on the outside of the case? If your going to just keep all the heat inside a case anyhow, wouldn't it be better to just use a good passive ATX powersupply?
1) There are almost no fanless PSUs left in production anymore -- the Silverstones are pretty much it. And they're nowhere near as efficient as the PS setup I used, esp at the low idle end.
2) Even tho the power adapter is in the case, it might as well be outside, being next to the huge opening of the PSU exhaust vent.
3) The power and temps I reported speak for themselves
Nope, your components would not work as well. PSU -- already commented on -- much lower efficiency at the power levels of the system -- and way overkill. I'm surprised it is still available at newegg -- it's not anywhere else. That case is not as well suited for super low airlfow -- the intake is more restricted, and I think it will make a difference. The PSU opening in my system is also a significant factor in keeping all the components cooler.I'd also love to see something like this made retail. While im sure you picked the components you did based just on what you had available to you at the time, i think this list would be best:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/Publi ... r=11294146
Case: Antec NSK3480 (Thermally Separated PSU region w/ 120mm rear exhaust fan)
PSU: FSP Group Zen 400w
HDD: Intel x25-m 80g
Fan: 120mm Scythe S-Flex 1200rpm w/ zelman fan controller
Heatsink: Xigmatek HDT-S1283 w/ backplate mounting
Add whatever your personal favorite low heat output components you want into it.
I just did this, and it works flawlesslyMikeC wrote:With the Triton 75, you probably need to brace the heatpipes midway between the fins and base against a padded or rounded edge so that the heatpipes will not bend right where they meet the base. If they do, once you have the fins at right angle to the base, the pipes might hang too low and interfere with the NB heatsink or some other parts on your motherboard.
The hardest part was that I was a little nervous - but once I recognised I had the stock cooler as a backup, it was just go for it.
I'm suprised how easy it was. I simply used my hands for bending. The heatpipes are quite soft. So now it's perfectly located right in front of my exhaust fan in my P180 and now I can achieve the same results with one fan less
I think this solution challenges the Ninja: No ducting needed, and ligther and cheaper too.
Thanks for sharing that great idea.
Well the case i chose has a thermally separated PSU zone, so it wont matter that the passive PSU i picked isnt as effecient since it wont effect the rest of the PC components. Also the case i picked has a huge vent located just above the PSU so the PSU wont overheat either.MikeC wrote: Nope, your components would not work as well. PSU -- already commented on -- much lower efficiency at the power levels of the system -- and way overkill. I'm surprised it is still available at newegg -- it's not anywhere else. That case is not as well suited for super low airlfow -- the intake is more restricted, and I think it will make a difference. The PSU opening in my system is also a significant factor in keeping all the components cooler.
As for lack of intake, i was actually thinking of using the 120mm rear exhaust fan location as an intake fan. Since the system is only going to have 1 fan, the only thing that really needs cooling is the CPU if your using low power or onboard graphics. So then there would be zero airflow issues.
Also it would be much more "standard" for a mass market deal. Its a hard sell to resellers to leave a giant hole in the back of the case where the power supply is supposed to be with an AC/DC brick zip tied inside the case. If you want to get something like this sold as a pre-made from a pc building company you need to use more standard PC parts, like an ATX power supply and a CPU heatsink that doesnt need to be hand bent to work properly.
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Aris --
1) I'm not trying to get anyone to build this PC for the retail market. That's your consideration, not mine.
2) For my app, the lower power draw is very important -- the difference could be as much as 10W between this setup and a conventional fanless PSU rated at 4~500W. For a PC that is pretty much on 24/7, this is important to me. In fact, the similar SPCR Audio PC built last summer in an Antec 3480w/ a Silverstone 300W fanless PSU, despite its lower 45W TDP A64 X2 4850E, idles at 38W AC -- just shy of 10W higher.
3) If you blow in from the back panel, where does it exhaust? Imo, it's better in an Antec 3480 just to have the fan on the HS blowing towards the rear opening -- if you want lower CPU cooling w/ a standard tower HS and just one fan in the system.
1) I'm not trying to get anyone to build this PC for the retail market. That's your consideration, not mine.
2) For my app, the lower power draw is very important -- the difference could be as much as 10W between this setup and a conventional fanless PSU rated at 4~500W. For a PC that is pretty much on 24/7, this is important to me. In fact, the similar SPCR Audio PC built last summer in an Antec 3480w/ a Silverstone 300W fanless PSU, despite its lower 45W TDP A64 X2 4850E, idles at 38W AC -- just shy of 10W higher.
3) If you blow in from the back panel, where does it exhaust? Imo, it's better in an Antec 3480 just to have the fan on the HS blowing towards the rear opening -- if you want lower CPU cooling w/ a standard tower HS and just one fan in the system.
Not trying to argue with you, just trying to figure out how you come to your conclusions.MikeC wrote: 3) If you blow in from the back panel, where does it exhaust?
Does it matter where it exhausts as long as it does? If you really cared that much about where exactly it leaves the case, you could duct the inside of the chamber to force the air out where you want. Like say the vents near the VGA card for better temps on a dedicated video card.
I guess i just don't understand why it matters where the air exhausts. Even if you didn't duct anything at all, with the CPU heatsink right in front of the 120mm fan the main heat producing component will always get great cooling.
Also with only an intake fan you could more easily set up a filtered air system for the case. I know not many people care about filtration, but it is a concern for some.
I suppose you could do like you say and just have a fan on the heatsink blowing towards the exhaust grill on the back, but then you'll have some heat recirculating back into the enclosure.
Small typo on page 3. "The space belw that is used to stuff some wires."
Excelent artical. It's surprising just how much power you save by using an 80W AC converter. After all, an extra 10 watt is an extra ~35%!
I should add... my 65w athlon X2 runs hotter with the stock AMD cooler! And that's with a PSU taking the heat out.
Excelent artical. It's surprising just how much power you save by using an 80W AC converter. After all, an extra 10 watt is an extra ~35%!
I should add... my 65w athlon X2 runs hotter with the stock AMD cooler! And that's with a PSU taking the heat out.