It is currently Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:37 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: P4-Mobile Thermal Performance
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:55 am
Posts: 5085
Location: UK
Quote:
The truth is that the P4-M's power ratings are almost identical to the P4 anyway, which is why I didn't bother. They have to be more $ and there's not much advantage, your can underclock most P4s anyway. It seemed like a lot of work to put the thing in there with all the different speeds -- would have been another 3 rows to be added... Convince me otherwise, I listen to reason


Hi Mike, I felt I had to say something, as some of the things you say about P4-M's in the "CPU's Ranked By Noise And Heat" article are simply incorrect. For example:

Quote:
P4-M's power ratings are almost identical to the P4 anyway


This is not true. Intel spec's show that P4-M's will typically put out HALF as much heat, clock-for-clock, as a standard 478-pin P4:

ftp://download.intel.com/design/mobile/ ... 068607.pdf

ftp://download.intel.com/design/pentium ... 988703.pdf

The thermal specifications are on pages 89 and 79 respectively.

As for the cost advantage, P4M chips are pretty easy to pick up on ebay out of old laptops or on their own:

ebay1

ebay2

With an undervoltable motherboard and one of these there is no question that some seriously low power dissipation can be obtained, easily below the threshold where fanless CPU coolers can be used, and they seem to me to be a very advantageous component to have in the quest for truly silent computing.

So, to sum up, I think there are some factual errors in the "CPU's Ranked By Noise And Heat" article which need to be corrected, and also I think P4-M chips deserve more of a mention than they are currently getting, especially here on SPCR.

Great site!

EDITED BY ADMIN TO EMBED LONG URL LINKS


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:57 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11788
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
jaganath --

Welcome to SPCR.

Funny this thread should suddenly come alive. Just last week, we began working on a complete update of the CPU page. It hasn't been touched for 1.5 years and is very out of date. It should be all revised by this time next week.

Your comments are noted and we'll look into that & make changes as necessary.

BTW, you'll see I've edited your post by embedding long URLs. This is usually reason enuf for a delete of a post, but seeing as it's your 1st post & maybe haven't had time to read the Posting Rules... Up at the top of the forum front page.

_________________
Mike Chin,
Editor/Publisher, SPCR
Support SPCR with your donations!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:55 am
Posts: 5085
Location: UK
Quote:
Just last week, we began working on a complete update of the CPU page. It hasn't been touched for 1.5 years and is very out of date. It should be all revised by this time next week.


Glad to hear it. I look forward to reading the new revised CPU page with great interest. :wink:

Quote:
This is usually reason enuf for a delete of a post, but seeing as it's your 1st post & maybe haven't had time to read the Posting Rules... Up at the top of the forum front page.


Duly noted and posting guidelines read. Thanks for not deleting my post. :oops:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 1:20 pm
Posts: 341
Location: Vancouver
Will the list be updated anytime soon?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: what about amd turion?
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:17 am
Posts: 130
Location: Slovakia
what about the AMD Turion?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:42 pm
Posts: 606
Location: UK
just thought i'd mention the Intel Celeron Mendocino.. should have done forever ago i suppose, but never got round to it/ figured it wasnt very important anyway.

i, up until a while ago, had a 400mhz one, and it ran 100% passively. no airflow atall (obviously it was out of case, so PSU heat didn't effect it. got up to 60*C and stopped right there, with ~20*C ambient.
and yet the pentium M, which, AFAIK, can't be run passively with a modest heatsink. (i did ask u to try with a ninja on one of ur reviews, but u suggested it was pointless, despite the fact that a few people here do run fully passive, and with iRAMs/CFs/NAS and power bricks it offers completely silent computing (er, well, other than coil whine /rant)

also the a64 is higher (ie hotter) than the barton and the northwood?.
when people can run them with stock coolers at 5v and still be in the low 30's?

infact looking more at it, i would almost say this is so bad it would be better gone...but its probably just the over-rating of the P4 A thats the worst..

if the PM *can't* be ran 100% pasive without a ginormous HS, then some PII and PIIIs need to be above it. as the mench Cel.

there is such a strong case for this page being wikified..

_________________
i3-530, Gigabyte H55M-D2H, CM hyper212+ | Sempron64 3000+, Biostar Tforce 6100, AC Freezer 7, picopsu. 0 fans.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 1:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:55 am
Posts: 5085
Location: UK
Quote:
and yet the pentium M, which, AFAIK, can't be run passively with a modest heatsink


I'm pretty sure it can. Take the Mcubed HFX systems in General Gallery for example, they run passive, albeit with heatpipe cooling which is, I suspect, overkill.

I used to run a P4-M (not the same as a P-M) passive, and the P-M has a lower TDP than the P4-M.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:36 am 
Offline
Patron of SPCR

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2002 1:49 pm
Posts: 834
Location: Somerset, WI - USA
mb2 wrote:
...and yet the pentium M, which, AFAIK, can't be run passively with a modest heatsink....

...if the PM *can't* be ran 100% pasive without a ginormous HS, then some PII and PIIIs need to be above it. as the mench Cel...


I have a laptop with a P-M 725 (1.6GHz). It can clock down to 600MHz @0.7V. With the tiny little heatsink in my laptop, the fan will only turn on every so often. So this should be easily cooled passivly even without a "huge" heatsink. And this is 200Mhz faster than your Celeron. Even at the full 1.6GHz and 0.924V it runs very cool. Maybe not quite passive, but probably with very little airflow.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 10:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:42 pm
Posts: 606
Location: UK
by modest i mean, about the same size as the stock A64 heatsink.

also the a64 is rated (i realised after posting) only as the earliest 130nm versions, and there are farrr cooler versions now.

BillyBuerger, using P-states doesn't count really, i think?. (besides, its not performance ranked). many (desktop) motherboards dont support it, cant remember if any do?. there should be a note about all that anyway.
the difference between passive, stressed, for 'ever' (ie as long as it takes to stabilise temps) and very low airflow, or even a blast of airflow every 5 mins or so, is very large.
jaganath wrote:
I'm pretty sure it can. Take the Mcubed HFX systems in General Gallery for example, they run passive, albeit with heatpipe cooling
the Mcubed effectively uses the entire sides of the case as a heatsink, so to call that a 'modest' heatsink is rediculous.

as for the P4-M, what heatsink? no airflow around it atall? speed/voltage?

the referance to the mobile p4 is the 'desktop replacement' version i think, which is almost the same as a desktop one.
however theres no mention of the mobile pentium 4-M, (or cel version). therefore confusion.

_________________
i3-530, Gigabyte H55M-D2H, CM hyper212+ | Sempron64 3000+, Biostar Tforce 6100, AC Freezer 7, picopsu. 0 fans.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 11:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:55 am
Posts: 5085
Location: UK
Quote:
as for the P4-M, what heatsink? no airflow around it at all? speed/voltage?


Heatsink: a cheap copy of the Zalman 7700 with no fan
Airflow: none (well, except hot air rising from the heatsink, obviously)
Speed: 1.86GHz
Vcore: 1.038V

However, to get that speed I had to OC the heck out of the FSB, and the RAM got pretty toasty at times. I now have a Sempron 3400 which is much more hassle-free.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:52 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:47 am
Posts: 289
Location: London
is this getting updated soon (with newer Pentiums, Core Duo / Solo, Core 2 Duo etc.)

can anyone tell me how hot running a Pentium D is... the prices have dropped so much i'm thinking of replacing my dual athlon MP with a low end Pentium D...

will a Scythe Ninja be able to cope with it relatively quietly?

else any other recommendations...

cost is an issue, but i want to get a good balance...
main thing is finding a decent and not too pricey motherboard with PCI-X (for my Raid Card)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:55 am
Posts: 5085
Location: UK
Pentium D's run hot; there is no Pentium D model with a TDP less than 95W. If you're getting a new motherboard as well you might consider socket 939; prices for the S939 X2's should be reduced now AM2 has come out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:10 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:47 am
Posts: 289
Location: London
i would do, but have found very few socket 939 boards with PCI-X (at least in my price range <£150)

i keep looking on ebay though...

are Opterons the same TDP? if i can find a bargainous one would that be worth it?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:55 am
Posts: 5085
Location: UK
Quote:
I have found very few socket 939 boards with PCI-X (at least in my price range <£150)


I must be missing something here, when I search for S939 mobos with PCI-express on Froogle there are tons for less than £150:

Froogle search


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:19 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:47 am
Posts: 289
Location: London
PCI-X is not PCI-e (PCI Express).

it's PCI(eXtended) which is a 64 bit slot which runs up to 133Mhz, it's what most RAID cards and Server/Workstation Boards used to use (a lot still do, though they are slowly moving to PCIe)

sorry for the confusion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:55 am
Posts: 5085
Location: UK
Quote:
are Opterons the same TDP? if i can find a bargainous one would that be worth it?


TDP's for Opterons vary a lot, especially for the dual-core ones. You could ask Mitro if he would sell you his 35W Opty 175:

35W Opteron for sale


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:14 pm 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:47 am
Posts: 289
Location: London
i'm looking at the Opterons

the 30W ish ones (OSB....) are all single core.

the 55W ones (OSK...) have some dual core, but seem to be really hard to find / really expensive...

the 95W ones (OSA....) well are in the price range, but still a lot more expensive than the Pentium D (but i imagine give better performance...)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 9:48 am
Posts: 434
I would add the AMD Geode to this list in the next update, as well as the new intel cores.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: turions, core2duo, conroe, semprons etc
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:17 am
Posts: 130
Location: Slovakia
please, the time came for some turions, core2duos, conroes, semprons etc...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Thread update would be great
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:50 pm 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:12 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia
It would be great if the CPU list could be updated with some of the latest CPU models - Core 2 Duo's and AMD's Dual Core's etc . . .

I am looking at building a new standard PC for a friend and was looking for a specific thread posted by a newbie a while ago (maybe a year) asking "what components etc again" which the venerable MikeC replied to saying "if people bought parts from our recommended parts lists (he included links to those articles / threads) most quieting issues could be avoided" - I have searched long and hard but can't find that article / thread (which was quite useful IMHO as a basic builder starting point). Any search suggestions - or links - to that thread appreciated!

_________________
In theory, practice is the same as theory. In practice, it isn't.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:18 am
Posts: 5
I would also like to see the article updated, including microprocessors such as the underclocked sempron, yonah core solo, the amd geode and the am2 x2

lets not forget the via c7s


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:26 pm
Posts: 61
I saw the extremely out-of-date article and though: perhaps I should mention on the forum that it needs an update. (It worked for the GPU heatsinks.) But it looks like this thread is already filled with people clamouring for an update.

Anyway, I'd love to see where the low-end Core 2 Duos fit in this. And the new 45 nm E8x00!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:21 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11788
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
This piece is not going to be updated any time soon. If we do it, we want it to cover every CPU -- the way it did when the article was first published. Today, the sheer number of CPU options is staggering, and it's growing daily, almost. There are now 3 different TDP reporting methods as well -- Intel's, AMD's earlier, and AMD's latest. It's just too big a database for us to try and build, never mind maintain.

At the same time, the need for an article like this is much less important thatn it used to be. Why? except for the bleeding edge with 4/8 cores, TDP of CPUs is generally declining, and there are many heatsink/fans that can cool them quietly.

The GPU is a more serious challenge to cool quietly these days, especially if you're a gamer wanting to use dual cards.

Having said all that, if someone reading this feels compelled to update (and maintain) the original article with today's data/ino -- just drop me a line. I'm sure we can come to an arrangement. ;)

_________________
Mike Chin,
Editor/Publisher, SPCR
Support SPCR with your donations!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:07 pm
Posts: 7
Location: WuHan
Great page, good work.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group