Silverstone's Flagship: Temjin TJ06 PC case

dbuchthal · Post by **dbuchthal** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:30 am

I echo the question of DocSilly above - I'm curious in using this in an AMD64 system rather than P4. CPU mounting position doesn't seem to vary much between the two, but the A8N-SLI with its dual PCIe cards seems more likely to cause problems. Silverstone explicitly lists only P4 mobos as being compatible on their site at http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-tj06.htm, but if you look closely, this is just the compat chart for the bundled NT01 heatsink.

Does anyone know if the TJ06 can work with Athlon64 CPUs? Will the tunnel conflict with the crazy SLI-setups that are coming out now?

PPGMD · Post by **PPGMD** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:14 am

I was thinking about buying one to find out, but I would guess that you need one of the replacement mountings like you get with Thermalright CPUs to get the heatsink on.

Now SLI, it should since the tunnel should stop before even the first video card.

PS · Post by PS » Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:46 pm

OK, Mike, this may be a dumb question, but... which direction was the air in the duct going? From the front of the case to the back, or vice versa?

It just seems to me that if you have it pulling air in from the back of the case that you'll be putting room-temp air directly onto your heatsink, which seems like it would be pretty good.

It looked like you have the air going from front to back in one of your photos. If that is the case, could you switch it real quick just to see if it makes any difference?

Another thing that may be worth trying is running the back 120 fan as an intake, removing the duct, and sealing the front 120 fan hole (with tape or whatever). This would do 2 things: (1) create a significant positive pressure inside the case, and (2) if the case temps dropped as a result of this, it would indicate that the 120 fan in the back could pull in enough cool air to cool the cpu and still be beneficial to the rest of the case.

Not really sure that that last one would work well, but it might be worth a shot if you have a few minutes.

-PS

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:01 pm

PS --

1) Front to back
2) No can do -- system's long been dismantled
3) I think changing the airflow direction or blocking any holes would hurt temps. Reversing the airflow means more of the heat gets a chance to get into the rest of the system; the case is short one exhaust vent anyway -- blocking one does not make any sense.

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:46 pm

EDIT: XP-90 and XP-120 have the same fin orientation: that is opposite of their clamps. Both coolers are designed so that air will flow from low to high - the opposite of the ideal for this case. Sorry for the mistake... it happens.

NCU-2000 might fit, but XP-90 still might be the best cooler.

Aerocool DP-102 and HT-101 don't fit K8 as far as I can tell...

However, AEROCOOL HT-101 JR. UNIVERSAL, COOLER MASTER HYPER 6, THERMALTAKE CL-P0024 TOWER112, ASUS STAR ICE, and ZALMAN CNPS7000 do. That is they fit the socket, not necessarily this case.

dlpolnet · Post by **dlpolnet** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 9:44 am

Thanks MikeC for the great review on the tj06.
I'm about to ditch my sonata case for the tj06 because the sonata is still a little too noisy for me.
I currently have a prescott 3.0 with the zalman 7000 Cu-Al, but find that I have to crank the fanmate voltage pretty high, and hence I get a lot of noise and some vibration.

When I get the tj06, I prefer not to buy another cooler, such as the silverstone nt01, which costs another us$40. So, which choice would be better:
1. use the zalman flower at the lowest voltage, or
2. use the stock intel heatsink without the fan

thanks
David

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 2:36 pm

Zalman would be better.

ChristianN · Post by **ChristianN** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:28 pm

MikeC wrote:
Thermalright
"splayed" pins Swiftechs

heck, even stock Intel/AMD HS w/ fan removed as long as the fins are going the right way!

Lots of sniplets missing from your original post there, but.. the thermalright xp120, doesnt it's fins go the wrong way when on a motherboard here?

I've ordered this case and I'm trying to figure out what heatsink I'm going to
go for, it's either one of those big-bad swiftech or the xp120. I'm thinking
mostly xp120 and use a controlled 120mm fan on it blowing heat off it and into the tunnel, but this has some major air collision issues.

Anyone with ideas on this one?

Post by **MikeC** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:38 pm

ChristianN wrote: the thermalright xp120, doesnt it's fins go the wrong way when on a motherboard here?

Depends on the socket/HS retention bracket orientation on the motherboard.

ChristianN · Post by **ChristianN** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:43 pm

MikeC wrote:
ChristianN wrote: the thermalright xp120, doesnt it's fins go the wrong way when on a motherboard here?
Depends on the socket/HS retention bracket orientation on the motherboard.

Aha.

And here I was thinking it'd go the same way no matter what. Interesting.
Thanks, it all made a whole lot more sense now

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 7:33 pm

So, what mobo are you thinking of?

XP-120 on most boards may not fit in the case; the case floor being too close to the mobo.

XP-90 seems to be a very good alternative.

EDIT: I'm also planning on using this case. I'm convinced that the NCU-2000 on A64 mobos will fit in the case with a few snips to the wind tunnel.

So, I'm considering that HS or the XP-90, which should definately fit.

(heh, I'm almost certain this is my final decision for a case)

Thomc · Post by **Thomc** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:38 pm

I have definitely decided on this case. As it turned out, my wife ordered it for me as a Xmas present not knowing that I still wasn't sure that I could find a heat sink that would work with the wind tunnel.

I have the complication of working with an LGA775 system - there are still a limited number of heat sink designs available. I would have liked to go with the Silverstone solution (NT01), but for now it is Socket 478 only. I asked Silverstone tech support about LGA775 support and the answer I got was:

"the NT01 for lga775 will be ready I will say two months from now"

So I guess I could have waited, but I was impatient. Besides, I had just "discovered" the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 - something MikeC also recommended as a possibility. It looks like it should work well with the wind tunnel regardless of the angle of the air flow - something that worried me about the XP-90 and XP-120.

On almost every XP-90/XP-120 installation I found pictures of, the fins would end up running across the air flow instead of with the air flow. I found exactly one picture of a system that showed an XP-90 with the fins in the correct orientation - and that system was an AMD. I decided it wasn't worth taking the chance - and in any case, I was pretty sure that the XP-120 would not fit. It is just too big unless the position of your motherboard CPU socket is PERFECT for the wind tunnel alignment - what are the odds? In any case, the XP-90 would probably be better, since it is taller - but again, the fin alignment is an issue.

So, I was looking at the Thermaltake towers - either CL-P0024 or CL-P0025. Because the fins on these towers are horizontal instead of vertical, they really work with an air flow from pretty much any angle. The only problem was, MikeC had pointed out a significant flaw in the mounting of the CL-P0025, and I assumed the CL-P0024 probably had the same problem.

I was just about to give up in dispair, so I wrote MikeC and asked if he had any suggestions. After I wrote him - but before he had a chance to answer - I found a review of the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7. I had just about decided it looked pretty good when I got MikeC's answer - in which he said he thought it might be worth a try.

To top it all off, it turns out that Directron has it on sale for $22.99

- a ridiculously low price for a "performance" heat sink for an LGA775 CPU. Arctic Cooling says this heat sink is good for LGA775 processors up to 4.4 GHz - that it can handle 200 Watts worth of heat. I hope it will dissipate the heat from my 3.6 GHz CPU using just the air flow from the wind tunnel - I hope to be able to remove the dedicated heat sink fan. If it turns out the dedicated fan is needed, I still believe the wind tunnel has a good chance of contributing significantly to the CPU cooling because of the unique fan mounting on this heat sink.

Another big advantage of this heat sink is the fact that it is designed to use the stock heat sink mounting - no "universal mount - one size doesn't fit any" problems. If you would like a Freezer 7 for your Socket 478 CPU - you are out of luck. Of course, they do make a virtually identical heat sink that DOES support the Socket 478 - it's called the Freezer 4. For AMD CPUs they sell the Freezer 64. Of course, Directron doesn't have the same great price on these - they're even cheaper! $21.99...

So - I'll let you all know how this setup works. Of course, I still have to come up with some RAM and a PCI-Express video card, so it will be a few more weeks before the system is booted up.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 3:24 am

FWIW dept.....I had been wondering how the Silverstone NT01 would work in a different setup. I just couldn't believe the temp figures in Silverstone case test were the best possible.

So I installed one in a different standard case with one 120mm globe fan above it blowing upward. It's installation was a bear...to make it fit I had to cut on the heatsink, the motherboard, the retension bracket, the case, plus I had to bend a heatpipe slightly, and remove the aluminum shroud.

It was worth the trouble.....this is a great heatsink if you can get it to fit. Without any tweaking, using a P4 3.2, a globe 120mm fan @1400, I get idle temps around 33C, and maximum temps around 44C.

For now I'll stand by my original opinion of this Sliverstone case.....nice looking but with a questionable CPU cooling solution.

ChristianN · Post by **ChristianN** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:24 am

I was actually going to go for a XP120 on a A8N-SLI Deluxe - however, I'm now wondering if that's such a great idea.

This makes me wonder if the swiftech would be a better choice for this mobo / case combination and might even allow me to run a A64 3500+ (winchester) fanless. I hope... or does anyone think diffriently?

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:30 pm

Thomc, if you post what mobo you're planning to use, we could determine the fin orientation of XP-90. Several intel sockets seem to be particularly close to the edge - something to consider when looking at HSF.

Bluefront, the fin spacing is pretty tight on that cooler for fanless use. Maybe that's why it fared so poorly

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:42 pm

ChristianN wrote:I was actually going to go for a XP120 on a A8N-SLI Deluxe - however, I'm now wondering if that's such a great idea.

This makes me wonder if the swiftech would be a better choice for this mobo / case combination and might even allow me to run a A64 3500+ (winchester) fanless. I hope... or does anyone think differently?

Bluefront or MikeC might correct me, but I would think the XP-90 would be superior, though it might require a slow Nexus fan.

EDIT: XP-120 might not fit. The NCU-2000 should though b/c of the socket's orientation - opposite orientation would make heatsink stick out further than edge of socket.

Thomc · Post by **Thomc** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:59 pm

Trip,

You said

Thomc, if you post what mobo you're planning to use, we could determine the fin orientation of XP-90. Several intel sockets seem to be particularly close to the edge - something to consider when looking at HSF

I am using an Intel D925XCV:

The CPU socket looks like it is fairly close to the edge - but not right on the edge. I knew this might be a problem - someone in the forum had already warned about the possibility of a problem if the socket was too close to the edge of the mobo. That is one reason I am going with the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 - because of the "small tower" design, it should tolerate being out of alignment better than something like the XP-90 or XP-120.

Just out of curiousity, can you tell which way the XP-90 fins would be orientated by looking at the CPU socket in this picture? I looked at every review on the XP-90 and XP-120 I could find - and I only found one picture with the correct fin orientation. And, as I said, it was an AMD system. I just felt the odds were against me - and with vertical fins, not only is fin orientation an issue, alignment is also an issue.

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:39 pm

The direction you want is parallel with the side of the mobo.

From Thermalright.com installation and review:

It looks like they'd both be in the wrong direction for both K8 and 775...

Apparently I looked at the XP-90 pic incorrectly

Both heatsinks have the same orientation - so that air is flowing through the fins from low to high. This is opposite of what is wanted in this case...

Sorry for any confusion

This is why it's good to check the facts.

EDIT: XP-90 should still be a good cooler with a fan.

EDIT2: Have you considered Kamakiri? EDIT: 3 Nevermind, wrong orientation. Dag.

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:57 pm

image

That's why I think the NCU-2000 will fit a Socket 754 in this case.

Reverse this on this

So that those fins are very extended before even reaching the 754 holes. They oughten extend much beyond the edge of the mobo really.

Again, that's if I'm looking at this correctly...

I should be ordering in the next few days

Thomc · Post by **Thomc** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:11 pm

Trip, I was pretty sure that the fins on the XP-90 and the XP-120 both ran the same direction - and that both of them would probably run across the air flow on my mobo instead of with it. I know you could go ahead and an XP-90 with a fan - but if I was going to do that, I would probably go with a Zalman CNPS-7000 or CNPS-7700. I think the Zalman would at least make a little use of the wind tunnel air flow.

If I hadn't found the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7, I would probably have taken my chances with a Thermaltake CL-P0024 or P0025, inspite of the poorly designed mount - or possibly the Scythe Kamakiri (SCKKR-1000), but again there would be the issue of the orientation of the metal band that partially blocks two of the sides. I really think horizontal fins are the best bet - although I suspect they would get more benefit from the wind tunnel if the fins had more space between them.

The spacing of the fins is the reason that I agree with you that the NCU-2000 "Heatlane" solution should work well in the wind tunnel - but Scythe specifically says:

CPU Clock Speed Limit: This product is not recommended to use with a high CPU frequency. Your CPU load should be limited to low-mid loading. Please use this product at your own risk.

I don't think my 3.6GHz LGA775 P4 fits their description of low-mid loading - and in any case, Scythe does not provide an LGA775 mounting for the NCU-2000.

I'm also confused because it appears to me from this image ( http://www.scythe.co.jp/en/cooler/NCU-2 ... CN1866.JPG ) that the fins on the NCU-2000 are also orientated incorrectly for the wind tunnel to work.

I am waiting for the Freezer 7 to show up to see how well it is going to fit, but I have the mobo in the case, and I think it looks like it should work.

BTW - I think my wife got a pretty good deal on the case. If anyone is interested, I posted the details in the "Deals, Vendors & Classified" forum - http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=18007.

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:35 pm

Thomc wrote:
CPU Clock Speed Limit: This product is not recommended to use with a high CPU frequency. Your CPU load should be limited to low-mid loading. Please use this product at your own risk.
I don't think my 3.6GHz LGA775 P4 fits their description of low-mid loading - and in any case, Scythe does not provide an LGA775 mounting for the NCU-2000.

I'm also confused because it appears to me from this image ( http://www.scythe.co.jp/en/cooler/NCU-2 ... CN1866.JPG ) that the fins on the NCU-2000 are also orientated incorrectly for the wind tunnel to work.

That disclaimer against use with high power CPUs is for the NCUs normal use as a fanless cooler. The windtunnel hardly qualifies as fanless.

You can screw the copper baseplate to the heatlane in two orientations. So the NCU always fits. See the review.

That still leaves you with the problem it won't fit on a LGA775.

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:48 pm

That's a great deal for that case, thanks.

Y'all should have corrected my XP-90 comment.

I totally forgot the Arctic Cooling Freezer, though I made a post about it one month ago.

Happy New Year!

DocSilly · Post by **DocSilly** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:12 am

The NCU-2000 seems to be an option that would fit on any CPU socket orientation ... but will it fit into the windtunnel? That heatsink is huge, especially with a height of 140mm

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:24 am

I expect to do a little trimming, hopefully not too much.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 3:55 am

I'll be quite surprised if you get the NCU-2000 to fit in the wind tunnel without a complete redesign of the air channel. The NCU 1000 I used in my "cookie jar" computer wouldn't even fit in the case at all till I added a big window that extended the left panel outward about an inch or so. Sounds like a big project.

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:01 am

Just an FYI for any S775 people who are going to use an S478 heatsink (such as the XP-90 or XP-120):

Using the Thermalright LGA775 adapter lets you position the heatsink at any 90° orientation that you'd like (barring interference from mobo components). This is a perfect solution for orienting the heatsink fins in the most beneficial direction.

ChristianN · Post by **ChristianN** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 3:49 pm

hmm the artic cooler freezer looks interesting, for my project (the a8n-sli deluxe) the model of choice would be the freezer 64. This appears to be the A64 version of the Freezer 7.

I really also have to stress the fact that this case needs a PSU with long cables. The one I've bought now really doesnt have cables with the needed lenght so I'll most likely have to get another one.

No big loss since I was trying to save a buck on the psu, I guess I'll go for something more expensive this time around.

For reference, the psu with the too short cables is a
NorthQ 4100SE. This is a european company and I havent seen their products outside europe. Their claims for the PSU's noise limits might just be true allthough I havent tested it under load yet.

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 3:56 pm

Bluefront, that is 32mm more than the NT01. This pic makes the NT01 appear to fit within 50 or so mm of the case side.

TJ06 width - 205 mm; Chieftec CS601 "schallgedämmt" is also 205mm.

I appreciate the forewarning though.

Ralf, if it's not there, do you think you could add that tidbit to the XP-120 & XP-90 reviews or to the heatsink recommended section?

Also

Scythe wrote:Compatible to LGA775
The WORLD' FIRST LGA775 ready FANLESS HEATSINK!
Optional 120mm Fan Mounting Clips
In order to build a high-end low-noise PC system, the NCU-2005 is now equipped with the optional 120mm fan clips!

from here

EDIT: Discuss new NCU-2005 here or in separate NCU-2005 thread.

Thomc · Post by **Thomc** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:31 am

ChristianN said:

I really also have to stress the fact that this case needs a PSU with long cables. The one I've bought now really doesnt have cables with the needed lenght so I'll most likely have to get another one.

I don't know anything about what power cables an AMD mobo requires, but I suspect that the most problematic cable is the 20-pin main ATX power cable. If that is the case, then the 12" extension cable sold by PC Power & Cooling ( http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/ ... thrcbl.htm ) might allow you to use your current power supply.

Ralf, this is really good news about the XP-90/120 - and I'm glad I didn't know it a week ago. If I had known this, I would probably still be dithering about what heatsink to buy.

I still tend to believe that horizontal fins are more likely to make use of the air flow in the wind tunnel. OTOH, the XP-90 is a very efficient heatsink. Dither, dither, dither...

Ignorance may not be bliss - but it can certainly make for easier decisions some times!

Not necessarily wise decisions, mind you - just easier decisions.

ChristianN · Post by **ChristianN** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:02 am

Thomc wrote: I don't know anything about what power cables an AMD mobo requires, but I suspect that the most problematic cable is the 20-pin main ATX power cable. If that is the case, then the 12" extension cable sold by PC Power & Cooling ( http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/ ... thrcbl.htm ) might allow you to use your current power supply.

They use the very same as an intel P4 board. The ATX is actually not a big problem to get extenders for, but the 4 pin 12v plug is another story. Luckily, this cable is only 4 wires and is easy enough to extend by hand.

Silverstone's Flagship: Temjin TJ06 PC case

which cpu cooler to use: zalman or stock intel