Silverstone's Flagship: Temjin TJ06 PC case

Paragon · Post by **Paragon** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:14 am

Thanks for a great review Mike! Will this box make it to the "Recommended List"?

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:07 am

Yes. I think all the Recom. lists need updating again. - sigh......

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:02 pm

I think I solved the un-impressive CPU temp readings in the Silverstone case test. I have been testing that Silverstone NT01 heatsink in a different case, using a 120mm globe fan, and a DIY duct setup. Here's what I found.....

To work best in a ducted setup, that Silverstone heatsink needs to have a very tight fit in the duct. The fins are simply too close together to allow sufficient airflow through them if any amount of air is allowed to pass around the edges of the fins.

Here's what I'm running right now with maybe 80% of the airflow through the fins.

One Globe temp-controlled 120mm fan sucking through the fins.
P4 3.2 CPU.
Ambient temp of 22C.
The exhaust is blown straight out the case.
Low airflow case....no intake fans.
Tight case with air filtration.

Idle temp at 1150rpm......34C
Max temp (CPUburn) at 1260rpm.....48/49C.

I'm still tweaking this setup....so the final temp figures may improve. This indicates to me that the Silverstone case was not the reason for the relatively bad temps. The problem was a sloppy fit of the Silverstone heatsink in the Silverstone duct. Go figure.....

Thomc · Post by **Thomc** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:18 pm

Bluefront - this is very interesting and valuable info - thanks!

I'm going to try to get away with as little "modding" work on my TJ06 as possible, but I have actually been thinking that I might have to devise some sort of insert for the wind tunnel to block the airflow around the heatsink - thereby forcing the airflow through the heatsink.

Assuming I stay with both 12cm fans, intake and exhaust, do you think that I would be better off to taper the sides in to the heatsink on the intake side? My thoughts are that if I was just using the exhuast fan to pull the air through it wouldn't make any difference whether the sides were tapered - but because I am also trying to push air through with the intake fan, it seems like tapering the sides in might help improve the air flow through the heatsink.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:43 pm

Hello:

You might try to make a venturi around the HS -- kinda' like a carburetor around the fuel jets!

Tapers on both sides would always be better -- it cuts down on drag and turbulence and the increase in velocity and pressure would likely also be good!

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:21 am

Thomc.....I fail to see any need for two 120mm fans to only cool the one CPU. If you were running them really slow....say 800 rpms each....maybe. But I'm using one fan with the NT01, so I know it's possible. This setup of mine can idle at 36C @ 900 rpms. The problem with running fans slower than they were designed for, is starting up.

An insert of some sort in the Silverstone duct would probably enable you to run the Silverstone heatsink with one fan, low rpms, and running cool.
Use of a different heatsink is another story.

In my setup the fan is 1/2" or so from the heatsink. The spacer I used between the fan and heatsink is a piece of safety-mat foam carved out so one side fits the heatsink and the other side matches the fan. An easy project with foam and a sharp blade.....

Thomc · Post by **Thomc** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:20 am

NeilBlanchard - funny you should say that!

When I was describing tapering the wind tunnel walls in to the heatsink, I almost said "like a carb venturi". But then I thought "No, I'm probably the only old mechanic on the forum that this would make sense to..."

As far as the actual venturi effect occuring - I don't know. The heatsink is going to represent a considerable obstruction to air flow that a carb venturi does not have.

Bluefront - I know that you believe that one 12cm fan should be sufficient, and perhaps it will be. Once I have the system set up, I can find out what temp the CPU is running and go from there. Maybe I will find that I can get rid of the intake fan. I know that in general "push-pull" dual fan configurations are not anywhere close to twice as efficient as a single fan - but I've never worked with a wind tunnel before, and so I tend to give the case manufacturer the benefit of the doubt and assume that maybe the intake fan is actually the way to go.

If you've been following my posts, you know that I am running a 3.6 GHz LGA775 Prescott - also known as a silicon-based space heater. I'm very concerned about being able to keep this hummer cool - and not be blown out of the room with noise. Intel recommends water cooling, and if I could have afforded a Zalman Reserator, that is what I would have done. As it is, I am counting on the marketing literature of Arctic Cooling that the Freezer 7 can handle 200W of heat, and I am trusting MikeC that the TJ06 - with all fans running - is a tolerably quiet case.

I would have liked to use the NT01, but currently Silverstone has no way to mount it to the LGA775 CPUs - and although they say they are going to have one in a few months, I didn't want to wait the whole project on the possibility that on some unknown date in the future an NT01 would be available for my CPU. If I find that the combo of the Freezer 7 and TJ06 won't keep the CPU cool at a reasonable volume, then I will have to come up with a different plan.

I have been wondering what material I should use to make the wind tunnel "venturi" - what is this "safety-mat foam" you use, and where can I get it? Is it cheap?

Post by **MikeC** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:27 am

Thomc --

You can conjecture / plan / theorize -- but nothing beats just doing it and finding out first hand. I would not fabricate anything or make any mods of any kind -- just put the system together with a reasonably suitable HS and start playing with it. All you really need is a multi-fan controller to make it easier to adjust fan speeds. Oh, and a better 80mm fan.

Who knows, maybe you have an exceptional cool CPU sample!?!

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:51 pm

I agree with MikeC that you'll have to try out your setup to know anything for sure. Only after you've built many systems, with different components, and different cooling techniques, will you be able to know any possible outcome with certainty....even then you get surprised.

I've had a Prescott 2.8, a Northwood 3.0 and 3.2, so I have a general idea what it takes to run them quiet and cool. I can't imagine your CPU being that much hotter......hot enough to need two 120mm fans.

That Safety-Mat foam is 1/2" thick closed cell foam....comes in 2'x2' sheets, a package of four at Home Depot is about $10. Many uses for the stuff.....I'm using it as a spacer between the fan and heatsink in my latest project (among other things). Cuts easily...I like it.

Post by **MikeC** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:08 am

CactusInvasion --

Complain I did not. I merely asked whether it's too big. The specs on page 2 state clearly that it is meant for E-ATX.

I also explain about the insert on the top side of the duct than can be removed (and replaced with a smaller one) that's meant to accommodate dualies HS.

If using a 80mm staright-thru traditional PSU, I'd think seriously about a duct hole behind the HDD bay. If you want higher power than 400W in a 120mm Seasonic, their new S12 line has been released -- 120mm fan, all the way to 600W -- and slightly higher efficiency than the Super series, apparently. Check www.seasonicusa.com

Thomc · Post by **Thomc** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:35 am

MikeC, you said:

...just put the system together with a reasonably suitable HS and start playing with it. All you really need is a multi-fan controller to make it easier to adjust fan speeds. Oh, and a better 80mm fan.

I am going to be using a Digital Doc 5 to monitor temps inside the case. I picked it up on ebay for $6 (well, $13 with S&H) - only drawback is that it is not the 5+. So instead of 6 flat sensors and 2 bulb sensors, it has 6 bulb sensors and 2 flat sensors. Also it has a 40mm fan instead of USB/1394 ports.

I hadn't really planned on using this as a fan controller - actually I was going to try using motherboard fan control capabilities. I know that the Intel mobos have not done the best job of fan control in the past, but I was going to give it a try. If I'm not happy with the result, I will probably try one of the "generic" 3.5" 3-channel controllers you reviewed.

Regarding the Digital Doc 5 - do you know if there is any reason that I can't fasten the bulb sensors against a surface (such as a hard drive)? I know that the flat sensors would be better for this, but with only two flat sensors, I already have lots of uses for them - the CPU heatsink, the MCH heatsink, the GPU heatsink, RAM, etc. So - I need to use some of the bulb sensors as surface sensors if possible.

On the 80mm fan replacement - would you recommend using the low RPM or the medium RPM Panaflo? I would prefer the medium so I can maintain RPM monitoring. In fact, if you think I should go with a low RPM fan, I will probably go with the Nexus. I know the Panaflo is probably quieter, but I really want to hang on to that RPM monitoring, and as far as I know the Panaflo low RPM fans are still unavailable with RPM monitoring.

mixter · Post by **mixter** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:18 pm

This is my first post. Love the site and the detailed research many of you are doing.

I landed at this site while researching this case at the Silverstone site itself. My 2 year old Kingwin aluminum case w/5 - 80mm fans is louder than I can stand so I'm looking to get a new one.

Can any one tell me if a Soltek SL-K8AN2E-GR mobo with a Thermaltake K8 Silent Boost is oriented correctly for this case's wind tunnel?

*** Answered this question myself by researching at NewEgg. The answer is no. That's discouraging because I like that heatsink and fan.
The orientation of this mobo with the capacitors being on the exhaust side would cause them to be heated by that cpu heat with the heatsink oriented the way you suggest. That's what causes capacitors to leak...aside from poor quality. I respectfully suggest you point that out in that heatsink orientation tip. If the heatsink fins are aimed at the capacitors, you're going to have leaking capacitors down the road.

I'm currently using an Antec Truepower 550 psu....Will the leads be long enough? I'm also wondering about connecting those two 120mm wind tunnel fans to the fan connector on the psu..

My system's got a Gigabyte 6800GT...yes, the one with the massive heatsink.

Did I miss the audio clip with both 120's going and the wind tunnel in place? There's no link showing on the page....my guide dog is out sick today

Thanks for any guidance!

Post by **MikeC** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:23 pm

Thomc wrote:Regarding the Digital Doc 5 - do you know if there is any reason that I can't fasten the bulb sensors against a surface (such as a hard drive)?

Why not? Also, you can always try Dtemp -- the best little HDD temp utility around. It's virtually standalone -- no dlls or other additions to your OS.

On the 80mm fan replacement - would you recommend using the low RPM or the medium RPM Panaflo?

Nexus 80 is actually quieter than the Panaflo but mostly when it is set to blow less air than the Panaflo. The M & L samples I've had sound about the same at the same speed, so I would not hesitate about using the M, tho some people have reported that the M is noisier.

mixter -- Welcome to SPCR!

Only the 1st recording is w/o the duct. There is one of both 120mm fans at 7V and no other fan on.

"...my guide dog is out sick today"

swannema · Post by **swannema** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:48 pm

Nice review.
I do have that case and I am pretty happy with it.
I made some changes to it.
I replaced the 80 mm fan with a 92mm fan by modifying that fan cage. First I had the 92mm fan right at the case front but my case temps went up at least 3C, after I put the 92 mm in the cage the temp went 2C below the initial case temps.
I took out all the fan guards, even though the holes are pretty large they still limit the airflow and add noise. After I cut them out the noise dropped even further.
I replaced the 120mm Silverstone fans with 120mm Global fans, the SS are quiet but the Global are even more quiet.
I do have an Enermax Noisetaker and the main power line is long enough but I still added an extension, also the 12v line needed 2 extensions in my case (got them from ebay for $4 each).
If do have a Radeon 9500Pro with the original Artic Cooler, therefore it takes two PCI slots, that was an issue, because the backplate did not fit into the screw less PCI fastener system, I had to cut a slot into the backplate.

The harddrive cooling is an issue, I have 2 Samsung SP's and they get pretty warm, as a temporary solution I simply put a 120mm in between the drives to add more airflow towards the PSU. I am thinking to add a fan into the side panel to cool the harddrives, but a 120mm will not right in front of the drives, a 92mm will.

I tried to fit an XP-120 but it would not fit, because of the CPU location on the mobo.

Info about my system:
PIV 3.0, Zalmann CU7000 at lowest setting
P4S800D-e dlx.
Radeon 9500Pro with Arctic cooler
1 GB memory
2 Samsung SP 120GB

My temps with Asusprobe, room temp 20C
CPU idle: 27C (if I turn on the system in the morning only 25C, because of the lower room temp.)
CPU load: 42C (after playing HL2 for an hour)
case idle: 28C
case load: 31C

I really like that case, and I think I will buy also the window side panel for it.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:49 pm

Thomc......The DD5 is not a fan speed controller. It can only be programmed to turn on a fan at a certain temperature. The problem with the setup is after the temp drops one degree the fan shuts off...only to turn back on in a few seconds.

If you set the temp so the fan stays on past a certain temp, if the temp rises about three degrees over your set point, the thing starts an annoying series of beeps that won't shut off.

As a digital temp sensor it works well....just tape or wedge the bulb-type sensors where you want...they'll work fine.

DocSilly · Post by **DocSilly** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:57 am

swannema

If possible I'd love to see some pics of your modifications, especially for the 92mm fan.

ChristianN · Post by **ChristianN** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:30 am

DocSilly wrote:swannema

If possible I'd love to see some pics of your modifications, especially for the 92mm fan.

That goes for me as well, this sounds neat.

Edit:

I was thinking about the CM Hyper 6 heatsink in this case instead of the xp120 which wont fit properly.

Anyone with any comments on this ? It's either that or the Artic Cooling Freezer 64 (same as freezer 7 as far as i can see).

swannema · Post by **swannema** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:14 am

I will take some pics over the weekend but the mod is pretty easy, the fan sits like in a big slot, you simply cut the upper part of the slot and some one of the tabs that is in the way, it is flimsy when the cage is not in its place but as soon you put it back into the case it does fit well and there is no rattling.

Mumrik · Post by **Mumrik** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:07 am

Hello SPCR.

Might be a silly question, but what is the diameter of the wind tunnel? 12cm? and is it constant along the length of the tunnel?

I'm think of possible radiator locations...

ChristianN · Post by **ChristianN** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:34 am

Mumrik wrote:Hello SPCR.

Might be a silly question, but what is the diameter of the wind tunnel? 12cm? and is it constant along the length of the tunnel?

I'm think of possible radiator locations...

The diameter of the tunnel is about 120mm throughout its lenght, but
it's not going in a "straight" line, it sorta bends towards the side panel going backwards.

Mumrik · Post by **Mumrik** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:35 am

Sounds like it'd be impossible to fit even a rather small radiator in there... A shame, I liked the idea of using it much like in the review, just with a radiator instead of Silverstone's heatpipe solution.

ChristianN · Post by **ChristianN** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:40 am

Mumrik wrote:Sounds like it'd be impossible to fit even a rather small radiator in there... A shame, I liked the idea of using it much like in the review, just with a radiator instead of Silverstone's heatpipe solution.

hmm arent there radiators that are about the size of a 120mm ?

If so; you could mount the radiator on the back of the case, outside and right behind the exhaust fan.. Dont know if this would be practical and all that but I'm guessing you'd get the system cooling abilities of the tunnel + watercooling..

Thomc · Post by **Thomc** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:49 am

This is the best picture I have been able to "borrow" to show the shape of the wind tunnel:

If you go to http://www.hardwareluxx.de/cms/artikel. ... 65&seite=1 you can see the article this picture comes from - and even read it wenn Sie Deutschen lesen können!

The picture is a little misleading - the smaller, angular piece of plastic near the bottom of the picture is only used on dual proc systems, and then it is attached to the other side of the wind tunnel.

Some dimensions:

The two 12cm fans are located ~21-22 mm above the bottom of the case.

The front 12cm fan is located ~37mm left of the right side of the case.

The rear 12cm fan is located ~7mm left of the right side of the case.

The rear of the front 12cm fan is ~365mm away from the front of the rear 12cm fan.

The wind tunnel is ~12cm in diameter.

The bottom edge of the wind tunnel (closest to the bottom of the case and the bottom of picture) goes off at a 90º bend toward the bottom of the case - thereby making the bottom of the case part of the wind tunnel structure (the area from the motherboard over to ~70mm from the right side of the case).

The overall length of the wind tunnel plastic piece is ~40cm.

There are a few more dimensions I want to post - the distance from the edge of the motherboard to the centerline of wind tunnel and the distance from the motherboard up to the center of the wind tunnel at the front and rear of the motherboard - but I need to figure out how I am going to measure them. I'll get them posted as soon as I can.

I don't know what other measurements would be helpful to people trying to decide if the wind tunnel will work for them. If someone thinks of a measurement they would like me to make, just let me know and I will try to oblige.

Mumrik · Post by **Mumrik** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:25 pm

Thomc, thanks for that lovely post! very informative and useful. I'll take a look at that article - Ein bischen Deutsch ist kein problem

Thomc · Post by **Thomc** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:05 pm

Bitte Sehr, Mumrik - I just hope this information is helpful to people. There is no way I could pay back to this forum community what I owe in terms of helpful advice and information received!

I did manage to get a couple of the additional measurements I wanted to get. I think they are probably the most important for poeple to consider when they are deciding if they can use this case - and if so, what heatsink they can use with it.

First most important dimension:

The distance from right side (bottom) edge of motherboard to wind tunnel centerline is ~8cm.

This means that for optimum placement of the processor in the case, assuming your heatsink is symmetrical, the center line of the processor socket should be ~8cm from the right (bottom) edge of the motherboard.

Second most important dimension:

The distance from motherboard up (over) to centerline of wind tunnel at the rear edge of the motherboard is ~17cm.

I did not measure the distance up (over) from the motherboard at the front edge of the motherboard - but I told you that the windtunnel drops (veers left) by ~30mm over a distance of ~365mm. Break out your geometry skills and take it from there!

PPGMD · Post by **PPGMD** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:50 am

Just wanted to add some information about the NT-01 that I gleaned from the Silverstone Tek guys at CES.

1. The current s478 NT-01 will probably work with the adapter that Thermalright ships with their XP-90/120 heatsinks, since in most cases it's the right orientation.

2. There is a new version of the NT-01 that is coming out that screws right into backplate for both the s478 and s775. He showed me another passive heatsink (this one looked at the size of a 60mm fan, for use in their mATX case), that had a new mounting plate that he said will be coming out with the NT-01, in a few months, this one had screw holes not only for s478 and 775, but also K8 for s754 and 939.

3. Make sure you specify Silverstone Tech, when talking to the floor manager trying to find their new booth location, otherwise they will send you to Silverstone, which makes guitars.

My feet still hurt, and I have been home for a day.

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:58 am

Where the hell are they?!? They're listed at 120, but all I found was iAudio at 118 and Teko at 122 with no gap in the center. The Cooler Master people told me that Silverstone had moved across the way from where they were supposed to be, but I searched the whole damn South Hall 1 & 2 for SilverStone and just couldn't find them!

My feet are pretty much totally blown as well, so you're not the only one.

-Ed

PPGMD · Post by **PPGMD** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:00 am

They are at the Speakercraft booth in South Hall 1, 21719, they are by Klipsch.

Tim Connor · Post by **Tim Connor** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:38 am

Hi all. First post, but I've been reading for a while. I wound up building the Asus A8N-SLI that people here have discussed. Couple of things.

I added a 92mm fan in the drive cage and used silicon to suspend two hard drives in RAID 1 (after having a HD fail - you don't want to go back). A 120mm is going to be really tight. I offset it because a fair amount of air comes up between the front panel. This should cool better than stock at the cost of giving up room for more drives. I've also sealed off the grill above the PCI slots.

I used Dynomat on the whole case and like, but don't love it given the price.

Power supply is a Seasonic 460 and I use pretty much an open tunnel from the front for cool air. Notice that I've taped off the top of the drive cage. Works well as the PS fan never spins up past 1200 rpm. If I made a true tunnel with cardboard I could probably drop it 150 rpm or so, but don't care.

If you want to route the cables behind the motherboard you will need an extension for the 24 pin and 4 pin power cables.

The Thermaltake Silent Tower works great on this MB with Mike's caveats about mounting. It just fits, if you use a MB with the CPU socket more than about 5-10mm lower you will be cutting plastic...

Temps have been CPU 37C or 27C with Cool N Quiet activated on 90nm3200+ MB runs about 38-40C with the fans at about 5V. Full 12V only drops it to about 3-4 degrees. No front fans are used. The front 120mm only reduced temps by about 1-2 degrees.

Biggest issues so far - I haven't figured out how to quiet the 6600gt. I bought it to hold me over until the 6800GT PCI-E becomes available for a rational price, so I don't know how much effort I want to put into quieting it. Right now I've undervolted it and its much better, but still too loud.

Other issue is the NB/SB Chip fan. Stock it is an 8000+ screamer. If you go dual video you can't fit a tall cooler so I'm stumped. I've undervolted way down, but don't know how much cooling I'm getting though...

Any questions let me know. Regards, Tim

Silverstone's Flagship: Temjin TJ06 PC case

Venturi!

Mobo/heatsink orientation...right for this case?