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 Post subject: Tim, welcome to SPCR!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:40 am 
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Hello Tim & welcome to SPCR!

Wow, what a first post! Nice stuff -- have you been at this quieting thing for a while? If you're just starting -- there's nothing like jumping in head first... :o

Too bad the NB fan is so darn loud -- 8000RPM -- yikes! :shock: Sheesh, they are still only moving, what; 3CFM?! Stick a 60mm fan on there; spinning at a lazy 1000RPM and you'll move more than that. I'll bet a customized passive NB HS and a 120mm blowing on both cards and the NB would be the way to go...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:52 am 
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Wow Tim, awesome post. This post is VERY relevant to me and my
ongoing project.

I'm awestruck at this behemot of a first post :)

One question though: where did you get the extentions?
I've found them at one online retailer but with international shipping (im in Norway..) it ends up at $56 (!!) for a 24pin + 4 pin extention.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:19 pm 
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Tim Connor wrote:
Other issue is the NB/SB Chip fan. Stock it is an 8000+ screamer. If you go dual video you can't fit a tall cooler so I'm stumped. I've undervolted way down, but don't know how much cooling I'm getting though...

Yeah, very relevant to me to as I'm planning pretty much the same build (only watercooled) in the next few months. Main issue right now is the Northbridge - what part of the graphics card is interfering with it (card or cooler?), and how much space do you actually have? I have a bodge in mind if the room really is limited (small copper block on the NB, and run a heatpipe between the NB and either a GPU waterblock or even the back of the case), but I'd rather use a passive cooler if at all possible.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:48 pm 
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Nice


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:44 pm 
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Thanks for the kind words all. I've been quieting P4 in an Antec 3700 series case for about year for practice. I've always wanted to start from square one without having to rip the PC to pieces. So when my father in law needed a new PC I saw the chance to give an older one away and rotate the P4 over to my son.

ChristianN - I got the exensions at:

http://store.pchcables.com/powercables1.html

pdf27 - The issue is going to be the back edge of the card. If I was smart I would have pulled the 6600GT out and put in the other PCI-E slot and checked, but I wasn't thinking that clearly. Maybe next time I have pull it out.

Regards, Tim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:17 pm 
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Hmm I've now ran into something fairly interessting.. installed 2 x 120mm nexus fans in the duct and put a 92mm fant in the normal 80mm hole (just put it there for now, havent done anything to the hole in the case yet).

When I close the front door the airflow goes dramatically down. Theres no
PC in this case yet so I have no idea how this will affect temps, but it's
an issues I really didnt see coming. It reduces the allready very-very low
airflow of the Nexus fans to a bare minimum.

I'm wondering if the effect is so great on these fans in this case because
they're whimpy and dont deal with resistance so well.

Anyways, just thought I'd mention this. Seeing how I just spent a shitload on
these Nexus fans I'm going to use them either way.. We'll see how this goes,
my plan to run a Hyper6 fanless might've just crashed down :(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:45 am 
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ChristianN wrote:
When I close the front door the airflow goes dramatically down. Theres no
PC in this case yet so I have no idea how this will affect temps, but it's
an issues I really didnt see coming. It reduces the allready very-very low
airflow of the Nexus fans to a bare minimum.

I'm wondering if the effect is so great on these fans in this case because
they're whimpy and dont deal with resistance so well.


Looks like you're going to have to carve up that lovely Aluminium front :(
Hopefully you'll be able to do it down by the floor where it won't show too much - but that's the sort of thing you've got to expect. Remember the flow will drop further still when a CPU/motherboard is installed to give even more flow resistance.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:22 am 
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ChristianN wrote:
Hmm I've now ran into something fairly interessting.. installed 2 x 120mm nexus fans in the duct and put a 92mm fant in the normal 80mm hole (just put it there for now, havent done anything to the hole in the case yet).

When I close the front door the airflow goes dramatically down. Theres no
PC in this case yet so I have no idea how this will affect temps, but it's
an issues I really didnt see coming. It reduces the allready very-very low
airflow of the Nexus fans to a bare minimum.

I'm wondering if the effect is so great on these fans in this case because
they're whimpy and dont deal with resistance so well.

Anyways, just thought I'd mention this. Seeing how I just spent a shitload on
these Nexus fans I'm going to use them either way.. We'll see how this goes,
my plan to run a Hyper6 fanless might've just crashed down :(


Try to take the mesh out on the door, that should improve the airflow. I also put in a 92mm fan, instead of the 80mm, but I made a mistake at first. I installed the 92mm right in the front without the fan cage and the temps went up, then I modified the cage and installed the 92mm in that cage and the temps dropped almost 4C.
In the pic you can see that I cut out a small part of the cage.
Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:02 pm 
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hmm thanks for the tip with the original 80mm fan mount, going to try that.

Allready removed the mesh from the door, made a certain difference but not "all that". I'm now wondering if I should just remove the bottom aluminum
piece, hack it up with a saw and mount it back up and see what happens. Should give it quite a bit more of a hole to suck trough.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:16 pm 
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ChristianN wrote:
hmm thanks for the tip with the original 80mm fan mount, going to try that.

Allready removed the mesh from the door, made a certain difference but not "all that". I'm now wondering if I should just remove the bottom aluminum
piece, hack it up with a saw and mount it back up and see what happens. Should give it quite a bit more of a hole to suck trough.

If you mean the bottom "inside lip" of the frame on which the door is hinged, I agree. It would make a huge increase in intake vent area. But I;d also suggest something like a bug screen mesh over the steel fan intake grills. Otherwise, you'll have a whole lot of clogging dust real fast -- esp via the new bottom front intake.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:22 pm 
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That'd be the one, yes. Just cut out the "middle" (as in - the biggest part of it) and keep the hinged part with the screwhole.

Sounds like a good idea to add some sort of dust filter - cleaned the dust filter
on my Nexus Breeze the other day after having ignored it ever since I got
the case in late october. Needless to say, a filter like that keeps a lot of muck
and cat hairs out.

Either way though, the filter would need to be quite rough to not create a lot
of resistance for the poor, poor nexus fans. They are really silent but as
posted earlier, very very whimpy :P

As for the original fan grills, they're sorta missing as I've removed them as
well in order to reduce resistance (...). I'll figure something out though.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:54 pm 
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Just another quick update. Something for ya'll with actual pc's inside this box to test. If you have a floppy and dvdrom or whatever holding the front bezel up, lock it and unscrew the bottom part. The front bezel hangs on perfectly fine while locked without the bottom "lip".

Also, the important hinged part is quite small, i'm going to try and fabricate
a small "step-in" replacement for this very part, the lip itself is so nicely made
and feels _really_ soldid in all its 5mm aluminium glory.

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 Post subject: Which cooler for the Silverstone T06?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:04 pm 
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Are there any more comments/success stories with using this case? I have one and am looking for the right cooler to install. I am thinking of using the new MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum mobo as its CPU socket measures exactly 8 Cm from the bottom edge of the board which should put it right in the center of the cooling tunnel. Has anyone had any success using the XP-120 or NCU 2000 with this setup yet?

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 Post subject: Any recommendations for AMD64 CPU cooling?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:03 am 
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I'm currently in the process of upgrading my machine to an Athlon 62 3200 based system, using a gigabyte GA-K8NXP-9 motherboard. I also want to use the T06 case but i'm concerned about what heatsink/fan to use on the CPU itself. From the looks of the case the XP-120 is to big, whilst the XP-90 will fit but from whats being said the orientation of the fins doesn't sink with the design of this case. Other solutions have also being brought up like the thermaltake tower, but with these if the motherboard placement of the CPU is wrong I would need to mod the wind tunnel (something I don't want to do, due to lack of expierience with such things). Can anyone make recommendations about which heatsinks they know will fit this case with the motherboard I wish to use?

Link to motheboard:
http://tw.giga-byte.com/Motherboard/Pro ... NXP-9.htm#


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:14 am 
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Looks like some hardware FINALLY will be shipped to me; I insisted on waiting for the PCI-E Geforce 6800GT - turned out to be quite the wait.

Anyways, in the hardware coming my way, theres a Coolermaster Hyper6. I'm planing to run it "fanless" inside the tunnel and most likely without the aluminum shroud. Now, I have no idea if its going to fit properly.

If you need to go for a more "safe bet" option, I'm quite sure the "special" swiftech will both fit and do one very excelent job in this case.

I'll come back with more info on the hyper6's useability in this case as well.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:16 pm 
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Daws, if you can, look at the placement of the CPU socket on the PCB (motherboard). You should not have to modify the tunnel if you get a motherboard with the right dimensions and placement. I believe that the K89XP-9 may be a little high for many of the tower type HSF's. You might get by with that motherboard and one of the flower type such as the Zalman 7000 but will also (possibly) not get the full cooling benefit with that design in the tunnel. This is why those of us with A64 systems are in a dilemma here- appears that this case and cooling tunnel is very specific in requirements for motherboard and HSF.

ChristianN, I am very interested to find out your results with that cooler. By the way, which mobo are you using?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:19 am 
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Same as the guy in the previous post a bit back; Asus A8n-Sli Deluxe.

I'd have to say I'm quite interested myself in how this project turns out :)
The negatives about the Hyper6 are all irrelevant if it actually fits;

* I'm going to mount it once so horrible mounting is just another obstacle.
* The cooler should, in theory, be so close to the bottom of the case and the tunnel that supporting it from either one should be doable. It's horrible weight should be less of a chore to deal with because of that.

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 Post subject: Hehe
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:34 pm 
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Yah Christian, your right about that! The tremendous weight of that cooler could be perfectly supported by this particular case design. That would be tremendous. You might end up with one fantastic setup if it works. Let us know what happens- I may try the same thing if it is workable.

I am looking at the AC Freezer 64 as well as it seems well designed for a mounting like this and is custom designed to mount on A64. I am just a little worried about the quality and cooling effectiveness as it is considered a budget cooler and looks rather unrefined. All that will not matter if it works well though. Maybe I will try both and see what works best. Incidently, the NCU 2005 might fit as it is 140 mm high- only 2mm larger than the THermaltake Silent Tower which one user in this thread said he was using with this setup. The A8N-SLI is a tad lower for CPU placement - looks like about 6.5cm from the bottom edge of the board. The MSI K8N Neo4 SLI is about 8cm so either of these might work well with this case.

I have thought about just not worrying about the tunnel and cutting it short so that I can use whatever cooler I want. It could then act as an exhaust duct with a fan on the cooler blowing through the cooler into the duct.

Good luck with your new build. Let me know how you like your A8N- SLI.. . Which PSU are you planning to use? These SLI rigs seem to be needing plenty of power on the 12V- they are recommending at least 20 AMPs on the rail for the more powerful GPU's, and dual rail might be the best way to go. Otherwise, why are manufacturers like Seasonic coming out with SLI PSU's with dual 12V?

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 Post subject: Re: Hehe
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:38 pm 
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velvet45 wrote:
I am looking at the AC Freezer 64 as well as it seems well designed for a mounting like this and is custom designed to mount on A64. I am just a little worried about the quality and cooling effectiveness as it is considered a budget cooler and looks rather unrefined.

Prelim results on Freezer 4 being reviewed right now on my standard P4-2.8 (69W TDP -- 79W Max power) test platform at 21C ambient --

Fan at 12V - 32 dBA/1m - 42C
Fan at 7V - 20 dBA/12m- 46C

It's very good performance, tho not as good as the best tested, and it should improve inside the TJ06 duct, because there will be more airflow across the HS than on the open-air test platform. The fan at 7V is at a very low airflow level, and the performance is similar to a Zalman 7000 with the integrated fan at 5V. I think the Freezer 64 should work very well; the A64s don't go much higher than this P4-2.8. -- 89W max power for most of them.

There's not even any need to remove the fan because it's frameless, and at low voltage, makes so little noise that other component noises will easily swamp it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:41 pm 
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MikeC,
Thanks for weighing in with your preliminary results on the Freezer 4. It is heartening to see that they are capable of producing an excellent cooling product. How do you think that cooler will compare with the Freezer 64? If they are both similar in performance and cooling design then it will definately be one to try. I like the idea of leaving the fan in place as long as it is that quiet- it will hopefully help add to the cooling. :) The fan seems like an interesting design and long lived (ceramic bearing) as well as quiet. I wonder if we might find out more about it (manufacturer, specs).

20dBA at 1 meter at 7V sounds very good indeed. Were your temp readings taken at full load- I assume so (forgive me if that is a stupid question)?

Are you planning to do a comparison test with the more popular coolers? That would be great. Incidently, what do you think about lapping or polishing the base of this cooler- it looks like it could use this, but I am unfamiliar with the benefits/potential worth of lapping.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:25 pm 
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velvet45 --

Freezer = Freezer. Only differences between different models is the mounting clips.

The fan has some basic bearing buzzing that's audible upclose but inaudible in normal use, even at low fan speeds.

It's not a thermally variable speed fan -- if you apply 7V, it will be 20 dBA/1m regardless of CPU load.

The review will be written up soon. Usually, comparisons against other recent / popular HS are made.

Lapping is probably most useful when...

1) the CPU core is exposed -- ie, no heatspreader
2) the HS-to-CPU contact pressure is low

The A64 has a copper heatspreader... and the clip for the Freezer (at least the P4 version) is extremely tight. Probably a bit too tight. This is probably indicative of how tight the A64 will be.

Besides, the stock cooling results are perfectly good; why mess around trying to get a degree or 2 better? Only worthwhile if it saves you a couple decibles OR takes you into a more comfortable temp zone.

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 Post subject: Re: Which cooler for the Silverstone T06?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:13 am 
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velvet45 wrote:
Are there any more comments/success stories with using this case? I have one and am looking for the right cooler to install. I am thinking of using the new MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum mobo as its CPU socket measures exactly 8 Cm from the bottom edge of the board which should put it right in the center of the cooling tunnel. Has anyone had any success using the XP-120 or NCU 2000 with this setup yet?
The MSI board looks like it might be too far over so that its position isn't much better than the Asus board. The ends are just over the edge of the mobo on one side and halfway past the sound connections I think.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:12 am 
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A good indication of wether or not a mobo will fit properly in this case is by looking at the header on the back vs the cpu socket with mounting gadgets.

As long as the cpu heatsink mounting device doesnt go further then about ~1.5cm from the upmost edge of the backmost header it'll fit within the tunnel.

That sentence may or may not actually explain what I mean, but the the whole header at the back (sound, usb, keyboard, mouse etc) is ~1.5cm longer/higher/whatever then the windtunnel.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:17 am 
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That does help and that's a bit larger than I had thought.

How about the other edge? Does the windtunnel end just before the edge or just after the edge of the mobo?


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 Post subject: Re: Hehe
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:27 am 
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velvet45 wrote:
Good luck with your new build. Let me know how you like your A8N- SLI.. . Which PSU are you planning to use? These SLI rigs seem to be needing plenty of power on the 12V- they are recommending at least 20 AMPs on the rail for the more powerful GPU's, and dual rail might be the best way to go. Otherwise, why are manufacturers like Seasonic coming out with SLI PSU's with dual 12V?


Thanks.

I was also looking at the Freezer 64 but decided against it because of the fact that ~1kg worth of copper should be able to cool the winchester cpu pretty well. In theory anyway.

Powerwise I'm going for a Tagan 480w. I was considering a whole lot of different psu's, including the Thermaltake 680w but after reading more or less the whole A8N-SLI thread over at anandtech there seems to be a problem with this card and dual railed psus. I have no idea if this would apply to all dual/multi railed psus or just some, but a lot of people over at anandtech who had stability issues resolved these with a new, single rail psu. This doesnt seem logic to me at all, but I figured I'd save myself some headaches and just go for the Tagan. Another reason for the Tagan 480w was a forum post over at another forum by the site admin who had actually run 6800 Ultras in SLI powered by a Tagan 480w.

In other words, it's known to work with a setup that exceeds mine and thats allways a good thing. I was also considering the ocz powerstream 520w but decided against that as well simply because of the "known good" config with a tagan. Tagan are supposidly produced by Topower (.....) which is never a good sign, but they've gotten good reviews around the net. Toms Hardware also had a Tagan PSU die during their AMD / Intel stabilty shootout, but I took the chance anyway.

As of the why's of the dual rails.. It's a nice idea, I think the problem people are reporting is more related to a unusual high power draw on startup, this might be motherboard related and not a bad thing about dual rails. However, I'm quite sure the ATX specs where designed with other things in mind; drawing 20+ amps of 12v is, in my opinion, quite insane. We're almost talking the levels you'll find in a car here (not quite but still..!).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:31 am 
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Trip,
are you referring to the position of the CPU from front to back or up-down? I may have missed something important here but am unclear from your post. All I had to go on was extrapolating from the schematic in the manual as I do not have the board to actually measure from. Isn't the critical measurement the distance from the bottom edge of the board when mounted in the case? Someone said earlier that it should be about 8cm to be ideally in the center of the windtunnel.

From my limited info at this point, the CPU socket on the MSI looks to be about 1.5cm higher than the ASUS- very crude estimation at this point though and the schematic could be out of proportion.

MikeC,
one question. From your preliminary review of the Freezer 4, it sounded like the fan was thermostatically controlled unless I read it wrong. It looks like the fan on the Freezer 64 is just wired for 12v? I guess I can just fanmate it for 7v. I kind of liked the idea of thermostatic control on the Freezer 4 or was that just the motherboard you were using that was thermostatically controlling the fan?

Thanks for the information on lapping :) Very helpful. Looking forward to the rest of your review! The soundbite for the fan was very quiet but lower pitched and slight bearing noise that was not unpleasant.

ChristianN,
I hear the Tagans are very efficient and quiet. Good luck with it :) I also agree Topower is not highly thought of by many, but their internal components and design is used in the OCZ Powerstream PSU's that are so popular with overclockers. I've heard good things about Fortron but they do not seem to be considered as efficient and quiet as the brands usually recommended here at this site.

My Enermax 600 watt which has dual rails with 17,18 amps is very powerful and although quiet, it is still too early for me to know just how quiet it is with this noisy video card I am still using. I have been reading the same things as you however about the problems with dual rail PSU's and SLI. I thought that these new Ver. 2.0 PSU's were supposed to be designed with dual PCI-e in mind? Perhaps not... but it could be that these dual GPU motherboards are just not designed to correctly access a dual 12v rail PSU. There is a 12v molex connector dedicated right on the board though so who knows?

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Last edited by velvet45 on Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:32 am 
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Trip wrote:
That does help and that's a bit larger than I had thought.

How about the other edge? Does the windtunnel end just before the edge or just after the edge of the mobo?


The wind tunnel goes all the way down to the bottom of the case. Theres about 12cm from the back wall (mobo wall) to where the windtunnels bottom side meets the bottom of the case. It goes all the way to the fans on both sides.

This gives you some wiggleroom on the "bottom" side of things because the slope of the tunnel starts about ~1,5 cms from the bottom of the case. Theres a small lip going from case to tunnel like this

Code:
__   
    \
     \
       \
        )
       /
     /
 _ /
 |   <- bottom lip


Horrible illustration but I hope you get the picture :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:36 am 
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velvet45 wrote:
Someone said earlier that it should be about 8cm to be ideally in the center of the windtunnel.


The center lettering on the tunnel (Patent no. blahblah) starts ~8cm from the bottom. This makes the middle of the lettering about ~8,5-8,8cm from the bottom of the case.

In other words; I wouldnt worry all that much about 1cm +/- but then again I'm not worried about cutting plastic or even copper if need be :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:51 am 
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Velvet,

up & down. I guess it is optimal with that lip on the windtunnel. EDIT: I dunno, I'm getting a headache from looking at the pics now.

ChristianN,

Thanks, I was forgetting that lip.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:16 am 
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Location: Tacoma, wa
ChristianN, get that dremmel warmed up :lol:

Like you, I am not afraid to start to cutting :D

Were not gonna let a little thing like plastic and copper get in our way... he he.

_________________
New system (under construction):
P182 case, Xeon 3320, Thermalright HR-01, ASUS P45 P5Q Deluxe, Corsair HX620, Evga 8800GTS 512, Fans ??, WD 6400AAKS,


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