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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 6:09 am 
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mattg82 wrote:
Edit

XCase now have s12-430,500 & 600 in stock. 8)


Wow! Thanks for that! I didn't know anywhere in the UK that stocked the new S12s.

£57 for the 430W is a damn good price too IMO.

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 7:28 am 
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Here are more photos of leaky caps -- http://www.overclockers.com/tips00140/

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 7:38 am 
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The High Reliability sticker is how we identify these new (330W-430W) PSUs? Now which places have them :)


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:25 am 
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Does anyone know where I can buy the 20+4 ATX nylon housing from? It'll be nice to replace the existing 24 pin ATX connector on my S12 with that, so that I don't need the 24 to 20 pin adapter (which is harder to hide).

The easy grip 4 pin molex doesn't plug into my 9800 Pro - the grips get in the way. I have to either use the (included with 9800 Pro) extension cable, or replace the easy grip molex with a generic one.

I'm a little disturbed that Seasonic chose to replace the caps on the S12 and advertise the fact so soon after the availability of the S12. Does this mean they discovered problems with the older S12? If so I hope they will do the right thing and perform a voluntary recall.


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:38 am 
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lenny wrote:
The easy grip 4 pin molex doesn't plug into my 9800 Pro - the grips get in the way. I have to either use the (included with 9800 Pro) extension cable, or replace the easy grip molex with a generic one.

I'm not a big fan, either. They seem to get in the way for certain applications (like the 3.5" drive bays). I've found that a quick slice of a box cutter can make quick work of them, though, as can simply bending them back with a pair of needlenose pliers.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 1:35 pm 
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Whoever wrote about shg.biz selling S12-430 might be dissappointed. I emailed shg.dk regarding s12-430 and got this response:

Quote:
Vi stopper nok helt med salget af Seasonic strømforsyningerne, da vi simpelthen ikke kan sælge nok i forhold til, hvor mange vi hele tiden skal tage hjem.

Så med mindre, at du kan tage 100 stk, så er det ikke nogle vi tager hjem.

Beklager.

Translation if needed:
Quote:
We will probably stop selling Seasonic psus as we simply can't sell enough in comparison to how many are needed to be ordered.

So unless you can buy 100 units, we wont be taking home s12-430.

Sorry.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 3:04 pm 
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noting the increase in noise from the new Adda fan, would the Nexus 120mm provide equal/sufficient airflow if it was used to replace the Adda fan? or is it not worth it


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:25 pm 
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perplex wrote:
noting the increase in noise from the new Adda fan, would the Nexus 120mm provide equal/sufficient airflow if it was used to replace the Adda fan? or is it not worth it


From my experience I would say yes; my S12-430 (Yate Loon fan) spins at 720rpm (I'm yet to see it speed up any further). The Nexus 120mm fan I have spins at 1000rpm @ 12V and 480rpm @ 5v. So 7V might be a good compromise.

If I were to bother swapping the fans though, I'd only be doing it so I could control the fan speed.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:41 pm 
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anyone know where to get the 330W and 380W S12s in UK?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:02 pm 
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Does anyone know what the *new* S12 fan RPM's should be? I have mine currently in an Antec P180 case with the optional 38mm fan on low. My Seasonic S12-500W fan is being reported as spinning 1700-1800 RPM. There is very little heat being exaughsted from the back of the PSU so I'm not sure if I have a defective fan controller or if that speed is normal.

Thank you


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:19 pm 
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Perhaps the preasure from the thick fan in the lower chamber is forcing the fan in the PSU to spin, making the PSU fan work like an impeller instead of a propeller? Doubt that it would spin the fan that much though..

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:35 pm 
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Actually, I thought about that. So I tried all three settings on the fan, and even with it off. Its still running 1780 RPM. No idea if this is supposed to be how fast it runs or not. But, kind of seems like overkill for a power supply that was supposed to be quiet. Don't get me wrong, its still not too bad (I'm new to this "quiet" stuff) but its nothing like I thought it would be. I was expecting maybe 700-1300 RPM at low temps... not 1700 RPMs.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:27 pm 
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700 RPM sounds about right, but the best test may be your ears: Can you hear the S12? If you can't, it's fine (and maybe your monitoring circuit is faulty). If you can hear it I'd RMA the sucker.

Having done almost a month's worth of testing using a S12 (the 430W version) in the P180, I can say that there's almost nothing that can make it ramp up. I was using system components that would draw almost 300W AC (~250W DC) under load, and even then the S12 wouldn't ramp up. I'm afraid I wasn't monitoring RPMs at the time, but I do know that I would have heard it if it ever spun at 1600 RPM.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:03 pm 
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Well then it must be a faulty one... because when I got it, I put a PSU tester on it and fired it up. And it was definately loud. And it was moving a good amount of air. I will contact Seasonic to see what they say. Perhaps this is a safeguard in case something in the PSU fails in terms of thermal monitoring/management.

Rats. That's 2 pieces of equipment that went bad in a day. My luck is not very good!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:34 am 
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Hi.
I got this power supply, and it is not being loaded too heavily. range of 100-200w total draw depending on operation of pc.
Anyways from the various software tools that agree on the voltages (I have a bunch installed) , the 12v line reports a 11.84 v. The 3.3 volt line reports at 3.14v. The 5 volt line I think was about 4.95v. Is 3.14 kinda low or is that generally fine?

Anyways, the power supply is very quiet, and I think it does a good job of pulling air from the bottom right of the motherboard (middle bottom of case).. As I think there is a temp sensor their, and in comparison to a small fanned stock powersupply the temps are ~37-38 there with the Seasonic, but with stock power supply, the temps are at least ~44 (going from memory). Anyways, it takes a fan aimed right at the lower right corner of the board to pull the temps down to 37 with the stock power supply. (I think actually the motherboard temp is perhaps an average of a couple sensors, so this assesment, of what area is being cooled may be off, and I may just be really cooling one part of the motherboard with fan to bring down the average

But the negatives of this 430w power supply is that it has the venting on the back side where all the cables come out. And as far as I can tell hot air comes out of their (and why shouldn't it?). And it roasts my optical drive. I put my finger there and it is hot. Plus the top of the case is very warm. I swapped in a stock el cheapo power supply in that sucks most all its air through vents in that position, and the optical drive is cool, as is the surface of the case above it; above the stock power supply the case is gently mildly warm at full cpu load. I think this is a very significant difference. Does anyone have any idea of how to rectify this issue?


Hard drive temps from the lower bay are within a degree of each other for either power supply.

In comparison, with the stock power supply, the el cheapo stock power supply, under full load of the system gives voltages of:
11.84v (this goes up to I think 11.92 under idle , wheras the Seasonic430 always stays at 11.84v under idle and load).
4.95v. (load and idle)
3.25v.(load and idle)

So my conclusion is that the el cheapo power supply has a voltage closer to 3.3 v.

I wonder what voltages my sample will give at full power draw?
They seem to be more in line with the review here than the SilentPcReview's voltages.

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm? ... 775&page=3

Did the updated version of the 430 with the Japanese capacitors give different range of voltages?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:44 am 
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Oliver, you can't judge voltage regulation properly using software tools; they measure the voltages after the power has passed through the power supply circuitry on the motherboard. If you really want to know how stable your S12 is, you need to use a volt/multimeter and actually measure the wires coming out of the PSU. However, so long as your system is stable, what does it matter what the PSU voltages are? Most of the power going into your power supply is stepped down to lower voltages anyway (think about it, CPU and RAM voltages are in the 1.5V range), so voltage regulation is probably one of the least critical features in a power supply.

The rear vents on the S12 are probably one of the reasons it runs so cool (and thus quiet), but if you're really worried about your optical drive, feel free to seal the inner vent with tape. However, this will force the temperature inside the PSU up (a MUCH more critical component than your optical drive).


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:57 am 
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I disagree. Voltage regulation IS important for a power supply. I have had countless computers crash and lock up just because the power supply could not regulate voltage at load. These were heftily rated power supplies, but because they were cheap and didn't regulate properly they crashed the computer.

However, in the above mentioned case, the values are well within means...

And for optical drive temperature, you need to figure out what kind of drive it is. If it is a burner, then I would definately move it or cool it down to prevent errors during writing.

Something is telling me that your airflow in your case is messed up if there is that much warm air coming out the back of the PSU. this means that the fan is blowing the air INTO the case, instead of out of it due to its lower fan speed.

I would check to make sure you don't have blocked intakes somewhere in the case...


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:04 pm 
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Thanks for the explaination Thanks for the explaination Devonavar

But clearly the system interacts with the el cheapo power supply to give a 3.3v reading closer to specification.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:14 pm 
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thetoad30 wrote:

Something is telling me that your airflow in your case is messed up if there is that much warm air coming out the back of the PSU. this means that the fan is blowing the air INTO the case, instead of out of it due to its lower fan speed.

I would check to make sure you don't have blocked intakes somewhere in the case...



Interesting about reverse airflow.
I have fans at the intakes. In fact on one I have a strong 120 pulling air into the case directly onto the cpu, through the side panel hole built just for that.

But really why would the 430 be more likely to blow the air out the back trhough the hexagonal grill, or out it variety of outlets on the other sides? I mean isn't it just the surface opening thing?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:15 pm 
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Oliver wrote:
Thanks for the explaination Thanks for the explaination Devonavar

But clearly the system interacts with the el cheapo power supply to give a 3.3v reading closer to specification.

Not really. The spec states what the voltage at the output of the PSU should be. Not on the motherboard. As Devon already said, there's no need to worry if your system is stable, and you cannot trust the internal MB voltage monitors to tell you much about the PSU -- you must measure the voltage AT the PSU output connectors while it is loaded. In the lab testing, we measure the 12V and 5V lines on an unused 4-pin molex output lead from the PSU; the 3.3V measure we get off a terminal on the PSU load tester that's right next to the 20-pin ATX connector.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:28 pm 
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MikeC,

Interesting, thanks.

Are you saying then ,that the El Cheapo power supply might in actuality have a 3.3v line reading at the output point something quiet a bit above 3.3v so that after the motherboard processes that line, it comes in at 3.25v?

So I understand clearly know how what your readings were. And any other readings would reflect the motherboard circuitry. But out of curiosity, what were the motherboard readings in your test system with your sample? And was there a significant difference between the Japanese Capacitor version and the Chinese capacitor version?

And is their any advantage if the motherboard voltage readings are as close to 12 and 3.3 as possible?

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:36 pm 
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Oliver wrote:
Are you saying then ,that the El Cheapo power supply might in actuality have a 3.3v line reading at the output point something quiet a bit above 3.3v so that after the motherboard processes that line, it comes in at 3.25v?

Yes.

Quote:
But out of curiosity, what were the motherboard readings in your test system with your sample? And was there a significant difference between the Japanese Capacitor version and the Chinese capacitor version?And is their any advantage if the motherboard voltage readings are as close to 12 and 3.3 as possible?

1) We don't use a motherboard in the PSU testing.
2) No; the advantage is supposed to be over the long term.
3) Assuming the PSU output is dead on, it implies a higher quality motherboard -- with lower resistance on the PCB. Or a voltage sensor placed very close to the incoming DC from the PSU.

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Last edited by MikeC on Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:40 pm 
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Thanks interesting.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:19 pm 
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thetoad30 wrote:
I disagree. Voltage regulation IS important for a power supply. I have had countless computers crash and lock up just because the power supply could not regulate voltage at load. These were heftily rated power supplies, but because they were cheap and didn't regulate properly they crashed the computer.


"Countless"? Surely you exaggerate.

I didn't say outright that voltage regulation isn't important, I said stability is the best measure of voltage regulation:

Devonavar wrote:
so long as your system is stable, what does it matter what the PSU voltages are?


Perhaps I should have been more specific and asked how the PSU voltages measure. Obviously, crashes do happen from out of spec voltages, but Oliver's voltages are not measured properly to determine whether they're in spec or not.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:19 pm 
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Devonavar wrote:
"Countless"? Surely you exaggerate.


No, I don't exaggerate.

Not only have I seen this in my own computers, but I run my own business and have been in business with computers for a long time (over 10 years now). I can firmly attest to power supplies causing a lot of the problems. Whether a heatsink gets too much dust on it causing overheating, or whether its just a really crappy power supply, to the incoming power being too noisy for the cheap components, I have seen many computers' power supplies just not able to hold their own. Swapping out to a name-brand quality power supply usually solves the problem.

I have even seen power supplies cause data corruption because it messed with the memory voltages or something. Now, that is an EXTREME case, and I have seen it once. Even replacing the memory and hard drive didn't solve the problem, but when the PSU was replaced, everything worked just fine when it went back to the original components.

I am not an electrical engineer, so I don't know how or why this happened, all I know is that it did. I have also seen power supplies "die". As I watched one computer that was mine, I was sitting there working with it and I turned on the power. It started working just fine, but then, it started locking up more and more. Finally after one reboot the darned thing just stopped turning on. The +5VSB still worked though, as lights in the keyboard and the motherboard kept working.

Just my opinion though, that power is a very important part of the equation, since the whole premise of a computer is based around electricity. It's the blood flowing through the veins... :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:00 pm 
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Does anyone have any idea what could cause the system date to change when swapping out a power supply? I had to take out all the connectors from the motherboard, and remove the motherboard , to make space to get the power supply out. I don't think the back side of the motherboard touched anything metal in the chassis.

Ideas?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:30 pm 
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The battery might be dead for the BIOS/CMOS, or you could have shorted the reset pins on the motherboard.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:25 am 
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The S12 330 and 380 is now avaible in germany:
http://www.winner-computer.de/47248f612 ... tegorie=71
I don't have any experience with this shop and I also don't know about international shipping. When someone is interested, I can write them an email, if you don't speak german.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:23 am 
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interesting :) i've wanted a S12 330 but after searching on google for a long time i assumed it's only available in USA. could you email them asking about UK shipping for me please :o 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:07 am 
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Where are you from Perplex?

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