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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 12:53 pm 
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Edward Ng wrote:
rpsgc wrote:
So would that work? I'm just being hypothetical here :D


Actually I was thinking of doing something similar; installing an S12 with the cover and fan completely removed, even part of the interior panel snipped out, to make maximum use of tunnel air flow.

-Ed


This is exactly what I was planning on doing with my S12-380. I just need to figure out how the guts are mounted to the chassis to see how much I need to leave. If I can remove all but the back panel and just have the guts in that direct airflow, I think I'll be golden :twisted:


My only concern is how quiet my 4 harddrives will be in that lower chamber. If they are nearly as quiet as they are now (suspended) I'll be quite content to not mod the case at all! :shock:

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 2:52 pm 
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Based on what I've seen in power supplies, the guts are probably attached to the bottom. So, take off the cover, cut off the back, and you should be good. With that setup, I can't imagine a 120mm fan not adequately cooling just about any PSU at any speed (well, other than stopped of course :) ).


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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 4:38 pm 
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Good answer, thanks!

The last thing I'm trying to visualise is how I'm going to rotate the tower on my NCU-2005 toa 45-degree angle, so that I can semi-duct it to both the exhaust fan.

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 8:47 pm 
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Suddenly membership of SPCR forum dropped by half due to number of users who accidentally touched their PSU while working in their PC :-) Remember capacitors can store charge long after power has been unplugged.

If you're going to do that, please take proper precautions. Like maybe a piece of foam or something non-conductive (and fireproof) between the open PSU and the user when the side panel is open. It'll probably improve cooling efficiency too by reducing open space and forcing more air over the PSU heatsinks.

And remember that if anything happens (something catches fire, etc) your insurance company might refuse to pay if they discover your modifications and determine that it is the cause of the fire.


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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 9:04 pm 
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If your dumb enough to take apart a PSU, i'd say you get whats coming to you.


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 12:00 am 
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FWIW, my thoughts on the case:

1. Excellent concept, some excellent ideas.

2. Especially like the flow-through ventilation compartment for the PSU (fanless PSU in my case) & drives with 120mm fan in the middle.

3. Not sure if the video card vent would be compatible with big fanless heatsinks on their video card (for those who don't need more)

4. Not fond of steel for a frame. It's strudy and practical, but not sweet. Outside panels appear to be thin aluminum sheets on plastic, which isn't exactly elegant, though maybe better than most cases. In this price range, my heavy black aluminum Coolermaster from a couple of years ago still seems nicer on esthetics.

5. Not fond of the big height. It seems that over time more and more is being built into motherboards, and disks get larger, so I need fewer and fewer things in my case. There may be a long-term trend favoring smaller at home and on desks (laptops rule in my office). On the other hand, maybe the height is needed to allow for the separate PSU compartment with good air clearance above & below the PSU -- that would be a fair tradeoff.

6. Not keen on the sheetmetal grid on the round or square vent holes as opposed to a minimum-turbulance wire grill like on some Coolermaster models. But there might be EMI regulations against a big 120mm hole.

7. Nice to have a 120mm fan on the back -- slow, quiet, cooling.

Overall, again, it looks like a very nice product with some excellent "out of the box" ... er, well, maybe "in the box" ... thinking. If I weren't already very happy with my Coolermaster case, I'd consider it.

Craig


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 7:31 am 
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IceWindius wrote:
If your dumb enough to take apart a PSU, i'd say you get whats coming to you.


You do realize how much of the SPCR staff takes apart PSUs and how often, don't you? You do realize this statement says that according to you, we're dumb and that, "it's coming," to us, right?

Oh and btw, there's also a lot of SPCR members who do the same; open their PSUs to mod/replace the fans on their PSUs.

-Ed

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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 7:58 am 
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I fanswapped a L1A into my SS 460W A3, does that mean I'm "dumb" and it's "coming" ? :evil:

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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:09 am 
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I open PSUs occasionally too, primarily for fan swaps. So whatever's coming, it better be good.

But opening to work on a PSU is one thing - they occur infrequently enough that we know how to take proper precautions. And if we don't, one harmless (unless you have heart problems) zap will give you a reminder. Operating a PSU with the cover open day in and day out is a different matter entirely.


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:17 am 
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I think maybe you need to draw a distinction between briefly cracking open a PSU in order to change a fan (observing the proper precautions) then putting it back together, and leaving one with the cover off with its innards completely exposed inside a PC case. In the latter scenario, given that most people here enjoy tinkering with PCs, the chances of a mishap sooner or later are very much greater.

However much experience you have and however careful you are, the fact is no-one ever plans to have an accident. The risk may still be relatively small, but given the possible outcome of a mistake (death), the potential benefit simply isn't important enough to justify that risk IMHO...

edit: ah, lenny, you stole my thunder... :D


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:26 am 
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Can we not forget that it's still sitting inside an isolated compartment within a closed case? It's not sitting outside on the picnic table at your cousin's BBQ.

Either way at least Lenny and Nick were more reasonable in their tone. What's the point of namecalling?

-Ed

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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:32 am 
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So, Is Ralf Hutter one of the reviewers on this?


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:37 am 
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Do be careful with this method. I don't ever think that this would happen, but if a power supply has its ground connected to the "removable" part of the PSU case... you could actually lose the grounded connection... and that could cause many a problems if the case ever became "hot" and you touched it... or the computer case it was connected to.

Hopefully engineering standards would never let this happen... but you never know sometimes. I seem to recall some rather unfortunate mishaps with NASA not paying enough attention to the little details... like burying a probe into mars because they forgot to convert US to metric, or simply shrugged off a piece of foam hitting the outside of the shuttle... :(


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:38 am 
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Mumrik wrote:


Hahaha, I saw this a couple days ago... I forgo saying anything because I didn't want to get him into trouble... but I guess now the cat is out of the bag!

I expect a review here sometime in the next week or so... seeing as the case is supposed to come out tomorrow based on: http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/sho ... D=!ORDERID!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:59 am 
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Edward Ng wrote:
Can we not forget that it's still sitting inside an isolated compartment within a closed case? It's not sitting outside on the picnic table at your cousin's BBQ.
-Ed

With respect Ed, that's not the point. When you're working inside a PC, your hands are inevitably going to be quite close to the exposed guts of the PSU (just how close obviously depends on the design of the case). In all likelihood, your attention will be focused on the particular task you're doing, not on how close the back of your wrist or whatever is to the nasty stuff. It only takes a slip, a twitch, a moment's carelessness or inattention..

As I said, I appreciate the risk is probably very small. It's just that the whole object of the exercise is far too trivial to be worth even that small risk IMO, given the potential consequences. I'm sure other people are braver than me, and I certainly wouldn't automatically classify them as "dumb" for taking a different view.

OK, that's probably enough of my off-topic doom-mongering... :D


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 9:53 am 
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nick705 wrote:
Edward Ng wrote:
Can we not forget that it's still sitting inside an isolated compartment within a closed case? It's not sitting outside on the picnic table at your cousin's BBQ.
-Ed

With respect Ed, that's not the point. When you're working inside a PC, your hands are inevitably going to be quite close to the exposed guts of the PSU (just how close obviously depends on the design of the case). In all likelihood, your attention will be focused on the particular task you're doing, not on how close the back of your wrist or whatever is to the nasty stuff. It only takes a slip, a twitch, a moment's carelessness or inattention..

As I said, I appreciate the risk is probably very small. It's just that the whole object of the exercise is far too trivial to be worth even that small risk IMO, given the potential consequences. I'm sure other people are braver than me, and I certainly wouldn't automatically classify them as "dumb" for taking a different view.

OK, that's probably enough of my off-topic doom-mongering... :D


I don't think it's off topic, and I don't think it's doom mongering either. We're not expecting anyone else to do it, are we? The fact that we're doing it just means we're willing to try it; doesn't in any way mean expect anyone else to. Just has been stated by yourself; if you do it, it's at your own risk. How is this any different from making a fan swap? Don't tell me you're going to work on your machine with the PSU cover off and live! I'm certainly not going to be doing that! Any time I plan to work on this machine, the power will definitely be disconnected--this is a mandatory precaution to me if you will be working on a machine with an open power supply; it better not be live! I would treat a machine with an open supply just like a procedure for PSU fan swap.

Heck, even if the PSU were shut, you still shouldn't be tinkering on the machine. I will admit to messing with case/CPU fans while live though, but the power supply was definitely shut! There's no way I'd ever go near a live, open PSU, whether it's on a countertop or inside a case. If it's open, I'm not touching it 'til it's shut down and disconnected. Otherwise is too much a risk.

-Ed

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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:21 am 
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I've done electrical engineering in the past, and I've been zapped quite seriously by really large (quarter farad) capacitors before.

One of the reasons I'm considering this mod relatively safe is that it's not anywhere near the parts I mess with in the chassis. It has it's own compartmentseparated from the tinkering bits by a large aluminium plate on 4 sides and a 38mm fan to the right. The only side that would be exposed is the one closest to the door; and if anyone else would be working on this case I would definatly but up some kind of shield that would sit flush with the dorr when closed.

Re: grounding concerns: I plan on leaving all parts of the frame where the guts make contact, so all grounding points should remain intact.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 11:13 am 
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ddrueding1 wrote:
Re: grounding concerns: I plan on leaving all parts of the frame where the guts make contact, so all grounding points should remain intact.


Ditto here; I've actually had HDD issues in the past most likely due to them being ungrounded (velcro'd to the side panels--yes, yes, I know, bad idea--live and learn).

-Ed

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 12:28 am 
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i wish it had more 5.25' bays.... and an optional side window. :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 1:34 am 
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Edward Ng wrote:
Ditto here; I've actually had HDD issues in the past most likely due to them being ungrounded (velcro'd to the side panels--yes, yes, I know, bad idea--live and learn).

Really? Hmm. My HDs are suspended on rubber bands and as such certainly ungrounded. Haven't had a problem with that yet - and considering I'm far from the only one using that kind of suspension, I'm surprised it doesn't come up more often if grounding really a problem. Or is everyone else using something conductive to suspend them?

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 1:48 am 
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moritz wrote:
Edward Ng wrote:
Ditto here; I've actually had HDD issues in the past most likely due to them being ungrounded (velcro'd to the side panels--yes, yes, I know, bad idea--live and learn).

Really? Hmm. My HDs are suspended on rubber bands and as such certainly ungrounded. Haven't had a problem with that yet - and considering I'm far from the only one using that kind of suspension, I'm surprised it doesn't come up more often if grounding really a problem. Or is everyone else using something conductive to suspend them?


Depends on the hard drive, probably. I wouldn't be surprised if some are/were more susceptible to these sort of problems (happened a long time ago).

-Ed

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 8:55 am 
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mibi wrote:
i wish it had more 5.25' bays.... and an optional side window. :wink:


Side window in silent case? Gimme a break!


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:06 am 
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You're right - cleary the case is too silent. I require artificial noise-makers. They could make some annoying sound, cell phone ring tones come to mind. As a bonus they'd also contain a lot of coloured LEDs! Then and only then can this case be considered perfect.

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:24 am 
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moritz wrote:
You're right - cleary the case is too silent. I require artificial noise-makers. They could make some annoying sound, cell phone ring tones come to mind. As a bonus they'd also contain a lot of coloured LEDs! Then and only then can this case be considered perfect.

Here you go. It'll probably be a simple exercise to write something to monitor fan RPM and adjust the volume of your ringtone (or pre-recorded fan noise you can download from this site) accordingly.

And when you're working from home, try playing back noise of someone eating noisily to simulate co-workers in the next cubicle :-)


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:29 am 
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Great, thank you. SPCR needs to review that! Who the hell cares about passive PSUs, anyway! :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:40 pm 
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Buzku wrote:
mibi wrote:
i wish it had more 5.25' bays.... and an optional side window. :wink:


Side window in silent case? Gimme a break!


Specifically a double-paned soundproofed window?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 11:15 pm 
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moritz wrote:
I was just a bit puzzled why they didn't just make them accessible from the outside when other stuff already is. But the public terminal explanation seems to do.


My explanation is a 4 year old who really likes to see what buttons do... :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:53 am 
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andyb wrote:
All Hail Mike. All Hail Antec.

I would have thought that Antec would want to sell this case with the 500W Hybrid Phantom (as the 350W might not power everyone system).


Will the Phantom 500 fit? The Phantom 500 is fairly long. It appears based on measurements using the first picture at http://www.silentpcreview.com/article249-page4.html that the space between the PSU and mid-case fan is between .7 and 1.1".

In that space cables will create turbulence in an area that should already be somewhat turbulent due to the fan. Wouldn this severely interfere with the cooling of the PSU?

I ask because the Phantom 500 was what I wanted but now feel a Seasonic will be a better match for this case... leaving me to wonder what case the 500 works in!

The Phantom 500 does have fewer cables but they are so intertwined (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article241-page4.html) as they come out of the PSU that the space between the PSU and fan might be quite messy.


Perhaps a fan thinner than the stock .38 mm fan could be used.

The Seasonic S12-430 may be a better choice... but I can't find the dimensions in either the SPCR review or at the Seasonic website. Although, I did not search very hard.

Opinions?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:36 am 
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ExpertNovice wrote:
The Seasonic S12-430 may be a better choice... but I can't find the dimensions in either the SPCR review or at the Seasonic website. Although, I did not search very hard.

It's right in the PC power supply page. You can even get the PDF for the mechanical drawings :-)

To save you a couple of clicks, they are : 150*140*86 mm (5.9" *5.5" *3.4")


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:41 am 
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I'm having pretty much the same thoughts as you, Expert Novice. I believe that the phantom 500 will fit and fit well though. I can't imagine Antec building a top-of-the-line case that wouldn't fit their best PSU. If I'm wrong I don't think there'll be a problem running the Phantom 500 without a fan with the 38 mm in the case as the only cooling since it should move considerably more air than the 15/80 in the Phantom even at the lowest speed. With the fan off the Phantom should be pretty standard in size.
Anyway, the way I see it the PSU compartment seem to be designed with the Phantoms in mind with all the venting around the mount.
Whatever is true, we'll know soon enough anyway.


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