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 Post subject: Scythe SCNJ-1000 Ninja heatsink
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:03 am 
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Scythe SCNJ-1000 Ninja heatsink reviewed; it is a new cooling king.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:34 am 
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Just a quick question:

Why was this HS used instead of the 2005 model? I have been trying to get info about both HS, and I will be using a P180 or a Sonata II/3000B.

I currently have an XP-120 in a Silverstone TJ05 case.

Thank you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:43 am 
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Your question doesn't make any sense. The Ninja came on the market about a month ago. That was May 2005. Did you even read the review?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:45 am 
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I am a little concerned about the weight - 665g is quite a bit. I am currently running my XP-120 without a fan, so it comes in at 390g. Even with a Nexus 120mm it wouldn't be over 500g though, right?

Also, the XP-120 is much more horizontal so the torque on the MB would be less. Even the Zalman units would be better in this respect - the 7000b ALCu is only 438g with the fan attached and only 62mm tall.

[Edit: spelling]
[Edit: Specs for Zalman added]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:56 am 
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A few sites have shown that at low airflows XP-120 is surpassed by newer (and more massive) heatsinks. Scythe SCNJ-1000 Ninja is one of them. :D


Last edited by winguy on Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:57 am 
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MikeC wrote:
Your question doesn't make any sense. The Ninja came on the market about a month ago. That was May 2005. Did you even read the review?


No. I'm not intelligent enough to read.

Of course I read the review. I'm not talking about the year of release: I'm talking about this: http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... ninja+2005

And this: http://www.scythe.co.jp/en/cooler/ncu2005.htm

Maybe I'm confused on the different model numbers, I don't know. I was just trying to get an idea why the 1000 model was used instead of the 2005 model, as the 2005 model seems much larger (bigger spaces between fins) and better to use passively.


Last edited by thetoad30 on Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:00 pm 
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thetoad30 wrote:
Maybe I'm confused on the different model numbers, I don't know. I was just trying to get an idea why the 1000 model was used instead of the 2005 model, as the 2005 model seems much larger and better to use passively.

Scythe NCU-2000 Fanless CPU Cooler

NCU-2005 just adds two things:
Compatible to LGA775
The WORLD' FIRST LGA775 ready FANLESS HEATSINK!
Optional 120mm Fan Mounting Clips
In order to build a high-end low-noise PC system, the NCU-2005 is now equipped with the optional 120mm fan clips!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:03 pm 
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Allow me to reiterate that my concern is about the weight being ~200g over spec for Intel sockets, and that the unit being 150mm tall would create excessive amounts of torque on the MB. Even if the weight is mostly concentrated at the base of the unit, this is still worrisome...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:04 pm 
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To clarify for thetoad:

The NCU-2005 is a newer version of the NCU-2000 which is a newer version of the NCU-1000. The SCNJ-1000 is a completely different heatsink, differend design, different heatpipes, released much later.

This site already has a review of the NCU-2000 which is virtually identical to the NCU-2005.

It would be apparent to you if you had looked at even just the puctures of the NCU-2005 and the SCNJ-1000 that they are different coolers.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:10 pm 
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As mentioned in the review, much of the weight is in the base. The aluminum fins weigh very little; I'd bet their total contribution to the overall weight is less than 10%. Plus, the installtion mechanism is very positive. We have no problems with vertical mounting at all. You're right that adding a fan pushes up the overall weight. But if you're using the XP120 fanless, certainly, the Ninja would be even better fanless.

I prefer this HS over the XP-120, hands down. The mounting system on the XP-120 really leaves a LOT to be desired. This is the assessment I have reached after trying the XP120 and the Ninja on about a half-dozen motherboards.

And thetoad30, sorry for my misunderstanding. But it's still an odd question. This is a review of the Scythe Ninja, which is the model SCNJ-1000. It has nothing to do with the NCU-2005, which is basically an NCU-2000 (already reviewed a while ago) with a more versatile mounting kit that allows it to be used with more than just socket 478 CPUs. Seems like you've got the Ninja confused with the NCU-1000, which we reviewed years ago.

EDIT: OK, looks like while I was typing, lots of others have jumped in to clarify for thetoad30, sorry for the repetition.

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Last edited by MikeC on Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:12 pm 
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Yes, I see that and I read that review. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is in the completely passive situation, which one would be better.

I.E. when being used as pictured in the P180. I know the XP-120 won't fare nearly as well in passive mode in the P180, so I've started to look for better heatsinks, and I've been watching SPCR closely and seeing these Scythe heatsinks all over the place. Until I came here, I've never seen these heatsinks before.

All I'm trying to do is get a good comparison of these two heatsinks. I know they are completely different coolers, that's obvious to my readings. I don't understand why all of you are jumping down my throat so fast.

I thought the point of these threads were to actually help people understand, not to call them incompetent and tell them to read.

I HAVE read and I STILL don't understand some things. Thus the point of my asking a question.

If you don't want to help, just don't reply. It looks much better to newcomers reading the thread than to actually worry that when they do post, they will get their head bitten off.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:21 pm 
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thetoad30 --

Don't get defensive, people did help you by clarifying your confusion about the different models.

As to how the NCU2000 would compare with the Ninja, I'd have to lean to the Ninja. It's got a bigger fin area, more heatpipe paths, and it represents the latest thinking from Scythe. But the difference could be really small in actual use, and far more dependent on other factors like case airflow and how well you mount the thing. I prefer the mouting system on the Ninja as well, so the decision for me would be easy.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:25 pm 
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Ok. I understand that the SCNJ-1000 is different from the NCU-1000 and NCU-2000/2005.

When you read the first link I posted to another thread on this site, although its another review, I see that when cooled passively, the NCU-2005 beats the SCNJ-1000 in a passive mode.

This is the basis for my question.

WHY would the NCU-2005 not be used instead in this setup that the review has (With the SNCJ-1000 in passive mode with 2 fans of the P180 near it)?

I'm trying to do my homework here. I have read the reviews, I have done searches on this forum, I have gone to Scythe's site.

I know the NCU-2005 is lighter by almost 200g. I know it is a heatLANE cooler instead of a heatPIPE cooler.

And based on that previous graph in the first link, it cools passively better than the Ninja (SCNJ-1000).

That's where my question comes in. Why not use the NCU-2005 over the Ninja? Why would you pick the Ninja over the NCU-2005? Is it more than just performance considerations?

I am merely looking for your opinions and input as to why.

Thank you.

Edit: While typing, Mike answered most of these questions. Thank you for the clarifications.


Last edited by thetoad30 on Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:26 pm 
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Agreed. The Ninja is a better design.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:30 pm 
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i'm a little dissapointed to not see the Scythe given a chance at true passive operation (ie 0 airflow + no additional/unnecessary heatsources nearby) with a cooler CPU (XP-m, P4-m, P-m, Celeron-M, A64-m, venice a64 or ~2600+ 754 sempron) as it would be very interesting to see which CPUs could actually be passively cooled.. but obviously u didn't have all (any) of those CPUs available :(
but perhaps you could have underclocked/undervolted the P4 to see how low you would have to go to get true passive operation? not sure if it would have been atall possible since it was 533fsb (not sure how low u can get the fsb etc with software on that setup).. but a try might have been nice..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:39 pm 
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Nifty! This was one of the handful of heatsinks I've been trying to find more about. Very helpful to see it mounted in the P180, too. Thanks, Mike!

The Scythe Shogun and the Titan Vanessa-L also challenge the XP120, though both have denser fin layouts than the Ninja.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:43 pm 
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mb2 wrote:
i'm a little dissapointed to not see the Scythe given a chance at true passive operation (ie 0 airflow + no additional/unnecessary heatsources nearby) with a cooler CPU (XP-m, P4-m, P-m, Celeron-M, A64-m, venice a64 or ~2600+ 754 sempron) as it would be very interesting to see which CPUs could actually be passively cooled.. but obviously u didn't have all (any) of those CPUs available :(

This question is interesting but not really that useful. We already know that any <25W CPU can be run without a fan on many good HS. As you move up beyond that power level, ambient temps, case design, etc, become critical.

As for "truly passive operation", it is not a realistic or desirable target. A system with no airflow is not one I recommend for anyone but the most experienced modders; I strongly recommend ANY and ALL homebrew systems to have at least ONE fan in the case to move heat off the motherboard and VGA card. Longevity, reliability and usability are all impared without some forced airflow in modern systems. Even a Panaflo 80L running at virtually inaudible 5~7V is WAY WAY better than no fan at all.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:46 pm 
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Damn, and I just bought myself an XP-120. Although I have an SLK3000B case with that side air duct. First of all the duct wouldn't fit with a ninja, but even if I removed the duct I would still have a big hole in the side if the case giving some strange going airflows. It seems the ninja works best with side-to-side airflow rather than top-to-bottom. Of course you could block it... damn, I want a SCNJ-1000!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:54 pm 
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nice review. i just love SPR reviews 8)

i also would of liked to see the passive test with a cooler CPU but i can guess the results from the results obtained :?

looks like i wont be buying a xp-120 anymore :o just need to find a nice UK retailer now :idea:

does anyone know if this would fit the Antec BQE nicely?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:11 pm 
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OmegaZero wrote:
Also, the XP-120 is much more horizontal so the torque on the MB would be less. Even the Zalman units would be better in this respect - the 7000b ALCu is only 438g with the fan attached and only 62mm tall.

Don't forget to account for the additional height (and weight) of a 120mm fan on top of the XP-120.

Can't wait for the P180 review to see how well it performs with the Ninja right in the path of the two fans. Have some questions regarding that, but guess I'll wait for the review first.

Damn, now I'm itching to mod my setup again *sigh* This site is a really bad influence :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:25 pm 
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Did you read the final page of the review. They tested the SCNJ-1000 on a P4 Prescott 3.8GHz in the P180. With the two exhaust fans on low, the Ninja kept the Prescott at ~60*C! Doesn't get much better than that in my opinion.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:40 pm 
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Do you think this heatsink would fit on the Aopen i855GMEm-LFS board? That's the board with the socket 478 retention bracket, but the heatsink has to sit lower due to no IHS on the wonderful Pentium-M.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:50 pm 
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I think the most brilliant thing about this heatsink is how it completely moots the "airflow fight" between the PSU and the rear case fan.

With a typical CPU heatsink, that area is a fugly three way struggle between 3 orthogonal fans.

With a tower-type heatpipe heatsink, you have to choose whether the air goes to the rear or to the PSU. Then airflow in the other direction gets blocked.

With this heatsink--no worries! Rearward, upward, diagonal, whatever. It's all good. 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:00 pm 
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Since the Silverstone NT01 didn't work out for me, I was seriously considering trying the Thermaltake Sonic Tower, since I've been hardcore about trying to elminate moving parts in my computer. Thanks to Mike's review, I've gone ahead and ordered this cooler. Hopefully, It'll cool okay with an 850rpm Nexus next to a Phantom until the black P180 comes out in 4 weeks or so.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:04 pm 
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3 days after i get my xp120 this review comes out...... GRAAAAARGH.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:15 pm 
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Nice review, thanks!

The more I read here, the more impressed I am! I just got myself an arctic cooling silentium t2, and I must say the review was spot on. (that concludes the off-topic part of this post).

To the point: sure does look like one awesome cooler, but I'm holding out till I can see how asetek's new vapochill micro is going to do, then i'll think about a new system for myself.

P.S. It has six heatpipes, not twelve - a "heatpipe" is a singular object, and as such, twelve ends of heatpipes would denote six actual (no, actual is not actually redundant) heatpipes. :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:27 pm 
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I saw this HS in Akihabara while recently visiting friends in Japan, and it looked like the best low airflow design I've seen yet. Sadly, I'm still running socket A, so I had no good reason to pick one up. Now I'm even more gutted after seeing my suspicions confirmed.

People should really not worry about the weight of the thing at all. When I hefted it in the shop, I was amazed at how light it felt for something of that size. Like Mike says, the mass is in the base, so compared to other tower HS it is less likely to damage the MB. Those fins are so thin, and there are so few of them, that the cantilever force is minimal.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:48 pm 
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frostedflakes wrote:
Did you read the final page of the review. They tested the SCNJ-1000 on a P4 Prescott 3.8GHz in the P180. With the two exhaust fans on low, the Ninja kept the Prescott at ~60*C! Doesn't get much better than that in my opinion.

Trying to mimic MikeC? :-) I guess I deserve that - I didn't read carefully enough, got a little too excited at the photo and started pulling up photos of my motherboard and various AOpens to check the location of the CPU socket, and missed reading the performance numbers. My bad.


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 Post subject: clearance near memory
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:01 pm 
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reviewers,

It looks like clearance on the memory side could be a problem when a fan is mounted. In the review, the p180 side photo showing the top of the ninja and its relation to the memory slots seems to support this. Would the fan sit on top of the first memory slot, or is there more room than it seems?

The fan mount seems rather flimsy. Do the clips hold the fan directly against the fins or is it more like the xp-120 where the fan frame rests on plastic strips or the fins?

TIA - FG

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: clearance near memory
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:08 pm 
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frankgehry wrote:
It looks like clearance on the memory side could be a problem when a fan is mounted. In the review, the p180 side photo showing the top of the ninja and its relation to the memory slots seems to support this. Would the fan sit on top of the first memory slot, or is there more room than it seems?

The fan mount seems rather flimsy. Do the clips hold the fan directly against the fins or is it more like the xp-120 where the fan frame rests on plastic strips or the fins?

Yes, you are right on all counts.

Mounting the fan on the memory side is a little tricky, it does sit mor or less on top of the mem, not the slot. The wire mount is pretty versatile so that the fan height can be adjusted somewhat -- you don't need to hook all the notches, just enough to hold it in place.

The fan mount is flimsy, it's just two pieces of stiff wire. They pull the fan against the edges of the fins, which means you can only mount the fan so that it is blowing into the fins.

These are points I should have made in the review. My bad.

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