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 Post subject: What's High End? Apple's 24" iMac
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:37 pm 
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What's High End? Apple's 24" iMac Shows there's More to High End than Performance


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:33 pm 
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It's good to know that the 24 inch iMac is so quiet. It would have ben nice to test it with the 7600GT, because the 7300GT has rubbish performance at 1920x1200.
But since the TAT didn't manage to ramp up the fans, then probably a 7600GT wouldn't have made a lot of a difference noise-wise.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:33 pm 
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I don't think it's a very wise decision from consumer standpoint to buy 24" iMac. Simply because monitor is integrated into computer block and you cannot reuse the screen once computer gets too old. Think about it, 24" is very nice and can serve for many years and outlive several hardware upgrades. If on the other hand you buy 24" iMac, you'll be stuck with the same hardware forever. Essentially you'll be throwing away $680 (the price of Dell 2407). IMO it's much better decision to get Dell 2407 and use it with your already quiet computer.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:35 pm 
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JazzJackRabbit wrote:
I don't think it's a very wise decision from consumer standpoint to buy 24" iMac. Simply because monitor is integrated into computer block and you cannot reuse the screen once computer gets too old. Think about it, 24" is very nice and can serve for many years and outlive several hardware upgrades. If on the other hand you buy 24" iMac, you'll be stuck with the same hardware forever. Essentially you'll be throwing away $680 (the price of Dell 2407). IMO it's much better decision to get Dell 2407 and use it with your already quiet computer.


But this is a Mac. You don't go out and buy a Mac because it is the best choise. You buy it because it is a Mac.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:23 am 
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OS X is nice, and it seems to be very quiet, yeah. I very much dislike plastic fantastic design in "iPod white", and i think the mac keyboard is uncomfortable. Does it come in black? :P


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:28 am 
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nici wrote:
OS X is nice, and it seems to be very quiet, yeah. I very much dislike plastic fantastic design in "iPod white", and i think the mac keyboard is uncomfortable. Does it come in black? :P


It could... for an extra $200 :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:37 am 
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Hello,

My Mac IIcx lasted me and my wife 10 years, and it was still running when I had to discard it because it ran too slowly for the current software. So, consider the useful life to be only 8-9 years? :twisted:

My first PC overlapped with the Mac. The PC was faster (whopping 486 DX/2-66!) but it only lasted about 3 years. Win98 didn't really run well in 32MB of RAM, and that's all I could shoehorn in there...

So, even though the Mac cost 2X as much (~$5,500 vs ~$2,700), it was the better value: $688/year vs $900/year. Actually, I had to buy a replacement 17" flat screen CRT for $850 about a year and a half after buying the PC, so the price for the second half of the life of the PC went up to ~$1,100/year! That, and I had to reinstall DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.11 for Workgroups at least 2 times, upgrade it to Win95 (where it should have stayed?), and upgrade it to Win98, too. :roll: I had to mess with dual boots, and became an "expert" in tweaking the Config.SYS and the AutoExec.BAT to better manage the DOS memory page frames. Sheesh.

Back on topic: I think that Apple has thrown down the gauntlet with another iteration of the most elegantly designed computer yet. If you have not used one, then you should try it. It has a power cord, a network cord (unless you use wireless), and the mouse daisy chains to the key board. The only thing better would be that they had a wireless mouse.

It is virtually silent, consumes as little power as anything out there, and it is a modern dual core computer, using an OS that is virtually immune to viruses and hacks. If you must run Windows (like I do) -- then you can! What's not to like?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:18 am 
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Quote:
The CPU temperature climbed to a toasty 75°C at this level, but even at this level the noise level never increased. We left the system burning in this way for over an hour, but the system was perfectly stable and the processor did not throttle. We can only conclude that, hot as it was, it never reached unsafe levels.


Really, this is astonishing thermal management from the Apple engineers, considering the iMac's incredibly compact dimensions. Hopefully someone on the interweb will take this one apart to see how it's done (I recall the last one had some kind of liquid-cooling module?).

The Mac is expensive, but for style-conscious advertising execs who live in loft apartments it's the perfect complement to their Japanese minimalist chic; it's not for someone who likes to tinker with and upgrade their PC, but then Macs have never been aimed at that market.

Quote:
using an OS that is virtually immune to viruses and hacks.


It's probably the low market share that gives the impression of invulnerability, rather than any inherent security features:

Ancient flaws leave OS X vulnerable?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:05 am 
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I really liked the review, and I've always been a fan of the mac and it's OS. But, being a hands on hardware kinda guy, I like to be able to open the system up, modify it, so, i don't think macs are for me right now. Maybe when I finally graduate and get my own place, I'll have a mac as an office computer?

NeilBlanchard wrote:
The only thing better would be that they had a wireless mouse.


The imacs have built in bluetooth, right? why don't they just make a bluetooth mouse? Maybe they just haven't thought of an elegant way to charge the battery, because you can't just use regular alkalines with something like mac hardware. Maybe they could have a little slot on the side that charged a lithuim battery. I doubt it. The mouse is the only piece of hardware I think Mac should re-imagine, and maybe come up with a secondary keyboard design.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:41 am 
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They do make a bluetooth mouse, that and a wireless keyboard costs $60 extra when ordering. The wireless keyboard is $59 and the mouse $69 when sold separate, not sure if they're available in a bundle.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:58 am 
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Quote:
A similarly configured Dell system that we looked at was only about US$200 cheaper, and it lacked the integration and style that are Apple's hallmarks.

So how expensive is this iMac?
And which inputs is it missing compared to a 24" Dell or Samsung LCD monitor?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:14 am 
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floffe wrote:
They do make a bluetooth mouse, that and a wireless keyboard costs $60 extra when ordering. The wireless keyboard is $59 and the mouse $69 when sold separate, not sure if they're available in a bundle.


strange, wonder why i didn't see any at the mac store.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:19 pm 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
So how expensive is this iMac?
The review starts with a little table, of which the third row shows...........The Price.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:14 pm 
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There is definately a wireless keyboard and mouse available :)

By the way can anyone comment on how easy it is to swap a HDD and add more RAM to one of these? Or not how actually, just if it's possible with relative ease :) Also, can they boot from USB and/or FW?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:02 am 
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Apple has a guide on their support site on how to add RAM, but the HDD is not user-upgradable (at least not within warranty ;)). The RAM is behind the middle part of the bottom vent, see the shot on page 3 in the review.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:58 am 
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floffe wrote:
They do make a bluetooth mouse, that and a wireless keyboard costs $60 extra when ordering. The wireless keyboard is $59 and the mouse $69 when sold separate, not sure if they're available in a bundle.


That sounds interesting, I might buy one for my PC laptop if Apple lets me use it with windows.
If it's any better than all other bluetooth mice that is.
It's hard to find one with a desent updaterate.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:54 am 
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I was hoping to see pics of its insides. How big are its heatsinks? Any pipes? Are graphics on a daughtercard? Does it look like a PC inside?

Like nici, I dislike the Way-Too-White high-gloss design. While reading the article, thoughts about improving the looks with a can of flat black spray paint crossed my mind. Even though that would make me Tyler Durden, destroying something beautiful.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:38 am 
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jaganath wrote:
Really, this is astonishing thermal management from the Apple engineers

About the same as any DTR laptop really, I'd hardly call it astonishing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:38 am 
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Saribro wrote:
jaganath wrote:
Really, this is astonishing thermal management from the Apple engineers

About the same as any DTR laptop really, I'd hardly call it astonishing.


People have made this comment before, but I disagree: you forget that it also has to deal with the heat from the TFT, and few laptops are as quiet as the Apple, note especially the stress test where temps, while high, were not dangerous, and noise did not increase. So this is better than normal laptop thermal management.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:25 pm 
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I have my dell 2405 set at a faily low brightness (rgb:30,30,30, brightness: 50) and it consumes about 45-50w according to my power angel. Who knows what cd/m output is at those settings, but at least we have 1 data point.

It looks like the imac 24" is a little less thirsty than my dell.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:05 am 
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Also, Saribro, DTRs can get quite loud, so I consider the low noise level of the iMac a bonus.

Regarding a couple questions/points, there are no available inputs on the LCD. However the iMac does come with a video out that can output to DVI, VGA, etc. Unlike previous generations of iMacs, these new models can span the monitors, not just mirror the desktop.

The graphics card is built-in to the motherboard. The review was quite accurate in it's description: it's a laptop built into the LCD casing. Components such as that are integrated.

RAM is user-upgradable, the hard-drive, not so much. Upgrading it yourself -should not- void your warranty, but it is not a particularly user-friendly machine to service. It's not as bad as previous-gen iBooks, or apparently the G5 iMacs (Rev 2), but they're still hard to crack.

They can boot from FW. I have not tried USB, but it should work.

Regarding the color management, I don't mind it. On expert mode, the color calibration is significantly more user-friendly (and reliable) than the built-in color correction on most monitors, not to mention significantly more extensive. Also, the software profiles mean that I maintain control over my color settings, and that some random co-worker (or my wife) won't throw me off by doing more than changing the brightness/contrast setting.

And yes, I am a designer-type person :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:06 pm 
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I was aware that Apple had issues with environmentalists about their manufacturing process but.... Greenpeace ranked Apple lowest this month among 14 "leading mobile and PC manufacturers on their global policies and practice on eliminating harmful chemicals and on taking responsibility for their products once they are discarded by consumers. There are questions about whether Apple is singled out for headline value, and about the accuracy of Greenpeace's ranking system.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:05 pm 
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Apple's share price is far too strong and some shorts are screaming in pain .... :D

I really wonder who the 'sponsors' of Greenpeace and like minded organisations are 8)

They say they take no contributions from govts and corporations but only from individuals and foundation grants (according to their homepage)

Does that mean Michael Dell if/when he contributes is not doing so on behalf of Dell Corp?! Does it mean Soros if/when he 'donates' is not doing so on behalf of the trading funds he manages?! and the stocks that the trading funds have an interest in (long or short)?

I do wonder with such a list and the seemingly EXACTING nature of their ranking leading to a patina of AUTHORITAH (as Cartman might exclaim). Most would just focus on the ranking numbers to immediately deduce that one company is 'better and greener' than another... I wonder how many go further than that to read the criteria?! :wink:

hehehe

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:19 am 
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I'm pleased to have found this article! I logged in to search the forums to see if there were any posts about how quiet the iMacs are, and lo and behold there are two reviews!

The flatpanel on my Downstairs PC is on its last legs and, rather than fork out on a screen, I'm considering relegating the P4 to file-serving duty and putting the screen money towards a 17" iMac. It's encouraging to hear that it's quiet. Thank you SPCR for the reviews!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:23 am 
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Cams wrote:
I'm pleased to have found this article! I logged in to search the forums to see if there were any posts about how quiet the iMacs are, and lo and behold there are two reviews!

The flatpanel on my Downstairs PC is on its last legs and, rather than fork out on a screen, I'm considering relegating the P4 to file-serving duty and putting the screen money towards a 17" iMac. It's encouraging to hear that it's quiet. Thank you SPCR for the reviews!


IMHO: The 20" iMac is the best deal. I convinced my work to get me one. Anyway, just some thoughts about it since I have been using it for a month or so.

The 2GB/3GB RAM limit is very limiting in OSX. I constanly find my machine barely chugging through normal work. It was almost unusable with only 1GB of RAM. OSX is makes it a pain to quit applications--it really wants you to have lots and lots of memory. Getting rid of non-Universal applications helped a little, since PowerPC apps need additional memory and CPU time. Also the slow 250GB Seagate drive doesn't help the memory problems. Definitely plan on 2GB and the extra capacity of the uber expensive 3GB option is probably worth the 50% reduction in bandwidth.

IMHO: The iMac makes a much better Windows XP machine than it does a OSX machine. Apple has forgotten to build a normal desktop PC. Something with a normal desktop CPU and a normal 4GB/8GB memory capability. The former would help price and the latter performance.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:29 pm 
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QuietOC wrote:
IMHO: The iMac makes a much better Windows XP machine than it does a OSX machine. Apple has forgotten to build a normal desktop PC. Something with a normal desktop CPU and a normal 4GB/8GB memory capability. The former would help price and the latter performance.

Reason: Margins. The "normal desktop" market is much more crowded than the high-end or the highly-integrated. I think Apple is quite satisfied with having the top-end Mac Pros and the iMacs in segments that are not under too heavy competition, at least not price-wise. Going into the regular segment might show just how much they mark up...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:16 pm 
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As some one that owns a Macbook Pro and uses it on a day to day basis. It's nice that it's a quiet machine, but I believe that people are better off purchasing a 24" LCD from Dell, and spending $1300 on a quiet PC.


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 Post subject: buzzing when dimmed
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 7:44 pm 
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interesting that your testing didn't uncover the buzzing that many 24" imacs suffer from when the display is dimmed. i haven't the gear to measure the level but it's quite an audible buzz. hence, i've disabled the ability of the screen to dim with the pmset command.


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