Sparkle Power's 250W 80 Plus SPI250EP
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:13 pm
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smilingcrow wrote:Just about every other desktop I’ve tested consumes 4W when powered off and 4 or 5W at idle which is one reason why the Dell surprised me. Did you test how much a system with the Sparkle consumed when off or on standby?
article wrote:6. LOW LOAD TESTING revealed no problems starting at low loads. The power draw at standby was a super low 0.3W, and power consumption with no load was very good at 6.5W.
It’s a current model but it’s generally only listed on the Dell Business sites so easily over looked – Vostro 400.MikeC wrote:Interestingly, the Dell Vostro 400 is NOT on the Energy Star list (XLS file download)... although this could be because the model is already discontinued? Dell currently has 7 models rated to idle <50W.
I did read that but I wasn’t sure what you were measuring; was this test with the power supply installed in the test PC? I’ve never seen such a low standby figure for a desktop system and the consumption with the system off was strangely high. Maybe it’s a quirk of using a 110W power supply!MikeC wrote:article wrote:6. LOW LOAD TESTING revealed no problems starting at low loads. The power draw at standby was a super low 0.3W, and power consumption with no load was very good at 6.5W.
Standby simply means the PSU is plugged into the wall, with the "power switch" (if it has one) on. In this PSU, since there is no "power switch", it's just the power draw with the PSU plugged into the wall. It makes no difference whether the outputs are connected to a motherboard and components -- except for 5V standby, which powers USB devices.smilingcrow wrote:I did read that but I wasn’t sure what you were measuring; was this test with the power supply installed in the test PC? I’ve never seen such a low standby figure for a desktop system and the consumption with the system off was strangely high. Maybe it’s a quirk of using a 110W power supply!
I agree, it would be a great match. Maybe the Antec P180-182-190 shouldn't have been mentioned in the review because the cables of this PSU are too short for those cases. They may even be too short for the Mini P180. Let's hope someone doesn't go out and buy this PSU for their P18X case after reading that paragraph.tempeteduson wrote:I agree that this would be an excellent replacement PSU for the NSK series (namely, the NSK2480 and NSK3480).
I’m still not clear here as you say it makes no difference and then say ‘except ..’!MikeC wrote:Standby simply means the PSU is plugged into the wall, with the "power switch" (if it has one) on. In this PSU, since there is no "power switch", it's just the power draw with the PSU plugged into the wall. It makes no difference whether the outputs are connected to a motherboard and components -- except for 5V standby, which powers USB devices.
A 6.5W load for a PC that is shutdown is horribly inefficient whilst the 0.3W at standby is laptop territory. This is the opposite of what I’ve generally experienced and I imagine many people would shutdown a PC thinking it will consume less power than on standby which is the opposite of what you’ve experienced with this unit. I’ve found that the difference between the two states is generally 0.5 – 1W so I usually keep my system in standby.From Review wrote:AC Power in Standby: 0.3W
AC Power with No Load, PSU power On: 6.5W
Yes, that's correct, and there's a second measurement we make with the PSU plugged into ac and the power switch turned on, but the PSU not triggered on to run. The latter is PSU "standby" (basically your PC is off but still plugged into the wall) -- which is not the same as standby in the OS.qviri wrote:I was under the impression that the "No Load, PSU power On" figure was with the PSU plugged into the wall and actually on, for example through the "paperclip in the ATX plug" method. No components are plugged into the PSU, though.
Thanks for clarifying that.MikeC wrote:Yes, that's correct, and there's a second measurement we make with the PSU plugged into ac and the power switch turned on, but the PSU not triggered on to run. The latter is PSU "standby" (basically your PC is off but still plugged into the wall) -- which is not the same as standby in the OS.qviri wrote:I was under the impression that the "No Load, PSU power On" figure was with the PSU plugged into the wall and actually on, for example through the "paperclip in the ATX plug" method. No components are plugged into the PSU, though.
Generally, yes.smilingcrow wrote:Is there a close correlation between the ‘laboratory’ figures that you record for those two power states and the ‘real-world’ measurements of a PC in either Standby or Shutdown?
Its the old Prius vs Corola argument. You'd have to drive a prius more than 10 years or so for it to end up costing less because of current gas prices.jessekopelman wrote:One thing this PSU has all over the various Enermax 82+ is that it is a lot cheaper! Something tells me the ~ 400W Enermaxs are probably more efficient at every wattage, but the additional cost is far more than you will make up in electricity savings in any reasonable amount of time.
I agree the Enermax is one generation of SMPS technology ahead of this Sparkle. But from an environmental point of view, there's always some advantage in being cheap: Fewer & shorter cables, sleeves, connectors, packaging, fancy bags for cables, etc.... these factors also count, don't you think?Aris wrote:Its not just about how much you save though. Its also about making a statement, and supporting products being made that push the market in a positive direction.
The enermax is a better designed PSU, and is a much bigger step in the right direction than the sparkle.
But doesn't buying the Sparkle also send a useful message -- that the general public doesn't need >> 300W PSU? Just imagine how efficient an Enermax 82+ 250W PSU would be at 50W and lower. Hell, the same materials that make an 82+ 625W might produce 85% or better in a 250W model.Aris wrote:Its the old Prius vs Corola argument. You'd have to drive a prius more than 10 years or so for it to end up costing less because of current gas prices.jessekopelman wrote:One thing this PSU has all over the various Enermax 82+ is that it is a lot cheaper! Something tells me the ~ 400W Enermaxs are probably more efficient at every wattage, but the additional cost is far more than you will make up in electricity savings in any reasonable amount of time.
Its not just about how much you save though. Its also about making a statement, and supporting products being made that push the market in a positive direction.
The enermax is a better designed PSU, and is a much bigger step in the right direction than the sparkle.
Thanks Mike. Are you referring to PC standby (Suspend to RAM) here?MikeC wrote:Generally, yes.smilingcrow wrote:Is there a close correlation between the ‘laboratory’ figures that you record for those two power states and the ‘real-world’ measurements of a PC in either Standby or Shutdown?
Our vidcard test platform uses an S12-600. On PSU "standby", it pulls 3W and 8VA. When the power switch on the PSU is OFF, then it pulls 0W and 4VA.
Our HS test platform uses a FSP Zen fanless PSU. On PSU "standby", it pulls 2W and 10VA. When the power switch on the PSU is OFF, then it pulls 0W and 7VA.
Exactly. Going back to the Prius vs Corolla argument, you can't simply only factor in the price difference of the vehicles when comparing the two, you also must compare everything related - environmental cost to manufacture (are you buying a used one or new one - in general, the lower the cost the lower the environmental cost when comparing similar products), lifetime emissions (the Prius' exhaust emissions are cleaner than the Corolla, so will produce less smog), etc.MikeC wrote:I agree the Enermax is one generation of SMPS technology ahead of this Sparkle. But from an environmental point of view, there's always some advantage in being cheap: Fewer & shorter cables, sleeves, connectors, packaging, fancy bags for cables, etc.... these factors also count, don't you think?
No, I tried to make that clear by stating "PSU standby" -- this term standby refers to when the system is ostensibly OFF -- but the power sw on the PSU is ON and it's plugged into the wall.smilingcrow wrote:Thanks Mike. Are you referring to PC standby (Suspend to RAM) here?
I wonder if Standby (S3) and Hibernate differ in power draw?
I don't know what you mean by this. Seems to me it's all covered:The one thing missing here for me is how much the systems consume when powered down but with power still available to the system.
MikeC wrote:System powered off but sw on and ac plugged in -- "PSU standby"
System powered off and sw OFF and ac plugged in
System on standby from within OS
Would you please indulge me MikeC and confirm what the power ratings are for these two states, both of which have the power on at the wall and the switch on at the power supply:From Review wrote:AC Power in Standby: 0.3W / 0.13 PF
AC Power with No Load, PSU power On: 6.5W / 0.73 PF
If you're asking about this for when this PSU is actually inside a system, I have no data.smilingcrow wrote:MikeC wrote:System powered off but sw on and ac plugged in -- "PSU standby"
System powered off and sw OFF and ac plugged in
System on standby from within OSWould you please indulge me MikeC and confirm what the power ratings are for these two states, both of which have the power on at the wall and the switch on at the power supply:From Review wrote:AC Power in Standby: 0.3W / 0.13 PF
AC Power with No Load, PSU power On: 6.5W / 0.73 PF
1. System put into Standby.
2. System Shutdown.
I am not an expert but I believe it is similar to cars: most cars cost roughly the same amount to develop, but the profit margin on larger cars/SUVs is many, many times higher. most people would not buy a psu rated at 50, 100 or even 200W. so the market is very small, mainly related to mini-ITX. small volumes = no economies of scale.guerby wrote:Question for experts: is a power supply which has high efficiency at 50W hard to design / expensive to make? Or is it just the law of volume / sale advertisement more watt = better?
Getting a bit OT here, but I really wish that there was more data available regarding the efficiency of 12v AC bricks - I'd like to get a picoPSU, but am worried that I'll get a brick with low efficiency since efficiency rating information on them is basically non-existant.jaganath wrote:however the picoPSU + AC brick combo can be highly efficient depending on the brick, so that shows it can be done.
There IS indeed a database of AC/DC converters.... at Energy Star. The link on the right column of that page to... For Consumers : Product Lists : AC-DC Adapters PDF will pull up (or let you download) a 66-page list of adapters with measured efficiency. It's difficult to search, however; you might do better with the full adapter list in XLS format, which makes it easier to order the way you want.drees wrote:Getting a bit OT here, but I really wish that there was more data available regarding the efficiency of 12v AC bricks - I'd like to get a picoPSU, but am worried that I'll get a brick with low efficiency since efficiency rating information on them is basically non-existant.jaganath wrote:however the picoPSU + AC brick combo can be highly efficient depending on the brick, so that shows it can be done.