SPCR
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/

Silverstone Fortress FT02 ATX Case
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=57111
Page 1 of 3

Author:  MikeC [ Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Silverstone Fortress FT02 ATX Case

Silverstone Fortress FT02 ATX Case

Author:  Meato [ Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:18 pm ]
Post subject: 

Great review, great product. Deserves and Editor's Choice in my opinion.

/rant
Take note Antec!
Silverstone is fast becoming the brand of choice for consumers looking for quality, quiet, classy computer cases. They took an innovative configuration and made it aesthetically pleasing to the over 30 crowd and young gamers alike by offering the Raven styling along with the subdued Fortress. The Solo was an innovative, classy, quality case and is still recommended to this day. However, where's the updated version? Where's the update to the NSK3480 that supposedly been in the works for a year? I'm fine with offering gamers the choices of the Antec 600/900/1200, but where is the ATX mid-tower for the over 30 crowd? What where those gawd-awful transforming looking monstrosities you displayed at CES? I sure as heck don't want to look at one of those sitting on my desk in my living room. Thanks for innovation in your Performance One series, but why do you continue to neglect the New Solutions series? Step your game up and take note of Silverstone.
/endrant

I'd buy the Fortress for my next build if they offered a shrunk-down version along the lines of an ATX mid-tower. And gladly pay the price premium over Antec for the improved quality and aesthetics.

Author:  STFU [ Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:12 pm ]
Post subject: 

That's a very nice case.
I've been wanting it since the summer. Unfortunately it took too long and I found a nice deal for a black ATCS 840 (110€ new).

Antec really hasn't made a good lookin case since p182 and even that is made from plastic (which I can't stand).

Thanks for the review, btw!

Author:  expxe [ Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:07 pm ]
Post subject: 

STFU wrote:
That's a very nice case.
I've been wanting it since the summer. Unfortunately it took too long and I found a nice deal for a black ATCS 840 (110€ new).

Antec really hasn't made a good lookin case since p182 and even that is made from plastic (which I can't stand).

Thanks for the review, btw!


Better to buy a used case, cheap and good for the environment!

Author:  Jipa [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:19 am ]
Post subject: 

Were the fans really exactly the same? I mean my Raven 2 sample came with a 0,18 A fan, whereas the Fortress 2 had a 0,27 A exhaust fan. Also scored slightly better CPU-temperatures, probably because of that...

Good review anyway, it's always a pleasure to see some actual noise measurements instead of the 10-70 dB(A) guesses you so often see elsewhere...

Author:  Ralf Hutter [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:42 am ]
Post subject: 

Man, that is one sharp case!

Author:  danimal [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:40 am ]
Post subject: 

that case has a nice, elegant look to it... you can access the cpu mounting screws without having to remove the motherboard? why didn't antec do that with the p183?

but there are always tradeoffs for all computer cases:

1) putting the power supply exhaust on the top of the case is not the best choice for quiet computing... many people complained about one fan on the top of the p183, but with the ft02 we have both top case fan noise and power supply fan noise coming out the top.
2) intake fans on the bottom make less noise than putting 'em anywhere else, but having to remove the thumbscrew and side panel to clean the intake filters(??) is a major hassle... it looks like you can't even inspect the dust filters very easily.
3) limited video card length.
4) it costs $80-90 more than a p183 at normal pricing, $120 more if you got in on the killer p183 rebate a few months ago.

Author:  MikeC [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:55 am ]
Post subject: 

danimal wrote:
1) putting the power supply exhaust on the top of the case is not the best choice for quiet computing... many people complained about one fan on the top of the p183, but with the ft02 we have both top case fan noise and power supply fan noise coming out the top.
2) intake fans on the bottom make less noise than putting 'em anywhere else, but having to remove the thumbscrew and side panel to clean the intake filters(??) is a major hassle... it looks like you can't even inspect the dust filters very easily.
3) limited video card length.
4) it costs $80-90 more than a p183 at normal pricing, $120 more if you got in on the killer p183 rebate a few months ago.

1. The PSU fan is actually on the back panel (assuming typical 120mm fan PSU) and the top fan is way quieter than the one in the P180 series. The panel doesn't have that odd resonance problem of the 180s.
2. Not really. No more than most cases w/ dust filters.
3. I think it will fit the longest cards around.
4. Price is always subject to market conditions -- FT02 is new, price usually stays firm for a few months before being discounted substantially. It also has the usual premium that all aluminum cases seem to have.

Author:  mtbush [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:35 pm ]
Post subject: 

Fantastic review! I can't wait to get mine this week.

I've been holding out for the non-windowed version for the past month, but I finally found one and now I'm having all the wires sleeved.

Author:  Mr. Perfect [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:04 pm ]
Post subject: 

Quote:
but its aesthetics seem to target the over 30 crowd, very subdued compared to the conspicuous Raven.


Ouch. :( Hey, I'm not 30 yet... I'd just rather have a BMer in the driveway then a Honda Civic with a metric ton of fiberglass bolt-ons. :lol:

It would be nice if they'd use some of these new ideas, like the rotated mobo, in their Mitx cases. :D

Author:  Zoiberg [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Noise

Hello Mike,

First thx for your work and advice, I appreciate the time and the effort of silentpcreview to explain as simple as possible the ways for a silent computing.

Second I am surprised that the Fortress 02 is not more silent than the Raven 02.

Ft02 have dampening material all over the the chassis. Is not strange that it have the same sound signature of the raven 02, and that is not a couple of db quieter?.

At same time the temperature of Ft02 should not be higher (again the dampening material)?

Thank for the attention.

Zoiberg

Author:  MikeC [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise

Zoiberg wrote:
Hello Mike,

First thx for your work and advice, I appreciate the time and the effort of silentpcreview to explain as simple as possible the ways for a silent computing.

Second I am surprised that the Fortress 02 is not more silent than the Raven 02.

Ft02 have dampening material all over the the chassis. Is not strange that it have the same sound signature of the raven 02, and that is not a couple of db quieter?.

At same time the temperature of Ft02 should not be higher (again the dampening material)?

Thank for the attention.

Zoiberg

You're welcome.

The damping material is quite thin. It may soften the high frequency sounds a touch but that's about it -- and there is very little high freq noise in most systems these days -- other than small fast fans which we always avoid. You notice we didn't talk about the damping -- that's because it might as well not be there. This is true in most cases. Damping materials really don't do much once the noise level is down low, and even when there is more noise to be damped, the simple reality of PC cases is that even if the walls are made of concrete, they are full of holes (vents for fans) through which sound can escape.

The only way sound damping material could increase case temperature is if it blocks the vents and/or there is inadequeate airflow and a huge amount of damping which could hold the heat. Neither applies in most PC cases, and I've never seen temps rise because of sound damping -- except if the above conditions apply.

Author:  ekerazha [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:10 pm ]
Post subject: 

MikeC wrote:
3. I think it will fit the longest cards around.


It is not so good for HD 5970, this user removed the grill on a 180mm fan in order to fit it.


Image

Author:  mtbush [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:31 pm ]
Post subject: 

ekerazha wrote:
MikeC wrote:
3. I think it will fit the longest cards around.
It is not so good for HD 5970, this user removed the grill on a 180mm fan in order to fit it.


but it fits, isn't that what matters?

Author:  MikeC [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

mtbush wrote:
ekerazha wrote:
MikeC wrote:
3. I think it will fit the longest cards around.
It is not so good for HD 5970, this user removed the grill on a 180mm fan in order to fit it.


but it fits, isn't that what matters?

Also, ideally for both quiet and cooling, you'd use an aftermarket oversize heatsink, which would likely not extend quite as far back. Looks like all that's needed is a couple more mm.

Author:  danimal [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:58 pm ]
Post subject: 

1) thanks to the xlnt spcr p183 review, i snipped the fan outline metal right out of my case, it was real fast and simple, so there isn't any resonance problem... i have an antec earthwatts 750, 135mm fan, and there is a lot of noise coming out the back vent, despite the fact that there is no fan there... it's actually louder than the neo he 550 that i had before :-/ which had a 80mm fan in the back vent hole.
2) at the bare minimum, you'd have to tilt the ft02 sideways to see if the intakes are blocked... i can open the p183 door to clean the vents, i don't have to take a side cover off first... i just run the vacuum cleaner over the grills when i'm doing the carpeting.

the upcoming nvidia card is rumored to be 9.75" long, so it fits fine:
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/12/21/ ... mi-448sps/

the main thing that i'm worried about with video card length is if there is an offset aftermarket gpu cooler... how about two 120mm fans, eight inches long:
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/12530-pro ... the-mk-13/

Image

Author:  MikeC [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:15 pm ]
Post subject: 

danimal --

1. That antec earthwatts 750, 135mm fan is not a particularly quiet PSU. It's one made for Antec by Delta. I spoke recently w/ my main contact at Antec, and he told me we would not be interested in reviewing the Delta-made EW models. They're good but not exceptional, and their noise is worse than the earlier Seasonic-made ones. In the Raven2 review, we had no noise issues at all with the Seasonic X650... which is probably to be expected. But I think any number of PSUs on SPCR's recommended list would work quietly in either the P183, RV2 or FT2.

2. Yes, the P183 is better in that regard. The RV02 and FT02 both require popping the top off, undoing 2 thumbscrews and sliding out the filters at the bottom. It's not exactly a hardship. I have to go through more on my P150 -- remove the side panel, pop open the front bezel, unscrew the fan cover beneath the bezel. I have a long hair cat who sheds hair in numbers like stars in the sky, and I only clean the filter every couple mos. Never see any impact on temps even with some clogging.

Author:  cordis [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  again?

This is strange, it's the 2nd review of something I bought before the review. I'm glad it was a good review. I like the case for now, I'm hearing a little buzzing from it, but I haven't tracked down the cause yet. Probably one of the gtx 260s I stuck in it, but I may replace the top 120mm fan just in case. And to be fair to case dampening foam, one high frequency source that's hard to knock out is coil whine, and in my experience foam can be good for muffling that. So it does have some use, and I'm glad they put it in. :)

Author:  ekerazha [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:17 am ]
Post subject: 

mtbush wrote:
ekerazha wrote:
MikeC wrote:
3. I think it will fit the longest cards around.
It is not so good for HD 5970, this user removed the grill on a 180mm fan in order to fit it.


but it fits, isn't that what matters?


In the Raven2 review they said the 180mm fans produced more noise without the grill, also I don't like to mutilate cases.

However I'll never use a 5970 card so it's still good for me.

Author:  Jipa [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:22 am ]
Post subject: 

If you have a stock HD5970 in the case, you're hardly going to hear the difference between grill on and off anyway :roll: Also "mutilate"? Sure, I'm a case modder, but removing four screws is hardly a project.

Author:  ekerazha [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:41 am ]
Post subject: 

MikeC wrote:
Also, ideally for both quiet and cooling, you'd use an aftermarket oversize heatsink, which would likely not extend quite as far back. Looks like all that's needed is a couple more mm.


Is there an aftermarket heatsink for that dual-gpu card?

Author:  ekerazha [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:42 am ]
Post subject: 

Jipa wrote:
If you have a stock HD5970 in the case, you're hardly going to hear the difference between grill on and off anyway :roll:


You should know decibels are additive, also noise type/tone could be different

Author:  ekerazha [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:05 am ]
Post subject: 

Also there's an issue with this layout, you have the power supply fan on the top, so more dust inside the power supply.

Author:  MikeC [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:07 am ]
Post subject: 

ekerazha wrote:
Jipa wrote:
If you have a stock HD5970 in the case, you're hardly going to hear the difference between grill on and off anyway :roll:


You should know decibels are additive

Not exactly. If you have 2 fans that each measures 20 dBA/1m by itself, together they will measure 23 dbA at 1m -- not 40. They will sound a bit louder, definitely not twice as loud as you might expect. You would need about 6-7 fans for a 10 dBA increase to 30 dBA, which will sound about twice as loud as 20 dBA.

If you have a 30 dBA/1m VGA card in a system where all the other components together make 20 dBA/1m, then you might hear a total of 31 dBA/1m. In such a setup, the effect of that one grill would be just about impossible to hear.

Author:  ekerazha [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:13 am ]
Post subject: 

MikeC wrote:
ekerazha wrote:
Jipa wrote:
If you have a stock HD5970 in the case, you're hardly going to hear the difference between grill on and off anyway :roll:


You should know decibels are additive

Not exactly. If you have 2 fans that each measures 20 dBA/1m by itself, together they will measure 23 dbA at 1m -- not 40. They will sound a bit louder, definitely not twice as loud as you might expect. You would need about 6-7 fans for a 10 dBA increase to 30 dBA, which will sound about twice as loud as 20 dBA.

If you have a 30 dBA/1m VGA card in a system where all the other components together make 20 dBA/1m, then you might hear a total of 31 dBA/1m. In such a setup, the effect of that one grill would be just about impossible to hear.

Obviously I mean logarithmically additive as we are talking about decibels, I studied signals theory at the computer engineering faculty, I don't need lessons on this :)

Author:  Zoiberg [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise

MikeC wrote:
Zoiberg wrote:
Hello Mike,

First thx for your work and advice, I appreciate the time and the effort of silentpcreview to explain as simple as possible the ways for a silent computing.

Second I am surprised that the Fortress 02 is not more silent than the Raven 02.

Ft02 have dampening material all over the the chassis. Is not strange that it have the same sound signature of the raven 02, and that is not a couple of db quieter?.

At same time the temperature of Ft02 should not be higher (again the dampening material)?

Thank for the attention.

Zoiberg

You're welcome.

The damping material is quite thin. It may soften the high frequency sounds a touch but that's about it -- and there is very little high freq noise in most systems these days -- other than small fast fans which we always avoid. You notice we didn't talk about the damping -- that's because it might as well not be there. This is true in most cases. Damping materials really don't do much once the noise level is down low, and even when there is more noise to be damped, the simple reality of PC cases is that even if the walls are made of concrete, they are full of holes (vents for fans) through which sound can escape.

The only way sound damping material could increase case temperature is if it blocks the vents and/or there is inadequate airflow and a huge amount of damping which could hold the heat. Neither applies in most PC cases, and I've never seen temps rise because of sound damping -- except if the above conditions apply.


Thanks for the answers Mike,

I really thought that the aluminium parts were used to help the heat dispersion and so covering them with foam would reduce the heat exchange. Heheh I am another victim of marketing. They should do it in steel at least would be less pricey, anyway being so huge I doubt people will move it around a lot.

I have another question on the space between the pci/pce slots and the covering grill on the top. Is it possible to use a dvi/analogue converter for monitors?

I ask this because I have still my lovely 22" crt (Lcd are still crap compared to the quality and flexibility of old professional cathode monitors, I know I know Lcd are cutier, lighter and bigger), and I have the feeling that if you put the DVI converter there you can't put back the grill.

Thanks again

Zoiberg

Edit:

I noted now that one of the 180 fans (the one under the HD cage) has not the plastic honey comb cover. If I remember well you found that that cover helped in silencing the fans.
LOL at this point I think is evident that I am disappointed, I hoped that Ft02 would be quieter than Raven 02

Author:  Jipa [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:41 am ]
Post subject: 

You can always just slow the fans down, and even as-is, it's still a pretty damn quiet case. And there's no room for a normal DVI-D-SUB-adapter under the grille, you may be able to find one with a short flexible cable between the connectors, though.

Author:  Monkeh16 [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:07 am ]
Post subject: 

Jipa wrote:
And there's no room for a normal DVI-D-SUB-adapter under the grille, you may be able to find one with a short flexible cable between the connectors, though.


Alternatively, buy a DVI-A cable. DVI-A on one end, VGA on the other.

Author:  doveman [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:51 am ]
Post subject: 

I think this is pretty much my ideal case. No more crawling round the back on my hands and knees to connect stuff :)

The only thing you might have to watch for is to make sure any audio and aerial cables are well shielded to avoid them picking up interference running across the fans/PSU. In that respect it might be better if there was a gap on the sides of the top panel to allow for running those cables down either side.

I think the orientation of the hard drive trays should keep them noticeably cooler than the Raven2 as well. In my experience it can make around 5c difference to have the fan blowing across the HDs rather than along them.

By the way, the heading says "January 17, 2009 by Lawrence Lee" when it should say 2010. Yeah, we all get confused at the start of a New Year!

Author:  MikeC [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:29 am ]
Post subject: 

ekerazha wrote:
Obviously I mean logarithmically additive as we are talking about decibels, I studied signals theory at the computer engineering faculty, I don't need lessons on this :)

It sounded like you needed a practical lesson -- you countered Jipa's comment about how a stock HD5970 will drown out any difference between grill on and off. My point is that it doesn't really add in any practical sense when one sound is way quieter than another.

Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC - 8 hours
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/