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 Post subject: Antec NSK3300: A Mini-P180?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:25 am 
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Antec NSK3300: A Mini-P180?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:16 am 
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I don't imagine you can test an NSK6500 for me? 8)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:21 am 
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Or a NSK4400?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:35 am 
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A good, thorough, balanced article. I'm not sure what this case offers that a generic mATX wouldn't though; and the inadequate cabling and poorly-thought out airflow arrangement for the PSU are a big no-no for any case that I would use. Still, for people who don't demand absolute silence it could well be a contender.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:50 am 
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jaganath wrote:
A good, thorough, balanced article. I'm not sure what this case offers that a generic mATX wouldn't though; and the inadequate cabling and poorly-thought out airflow arrangement for the PSU are a big no-no for any case that I would use. Still, for people who don't demand absolute silence it could well be a contender.

It's certainly no P180 or P150... or many other decent mid-towers. It might have been better with a standard ATX PSU w/ detachable cables, but the price would then have pushed up to P150 levels. I haven't examined enough "generic" mATX cases to be sure, but I doubt most would be as quiet right out of the box. I also doubt the airflow through the main chamber would be aqnywhere as good as this.

Also, keep in mind the motherboard has odd connector locations, the ambient temp was higher than usual in our lab, and the CPU was pulling some 85W at load. All these factors made the PSU fan run a bit faster than it would otherwise.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:06 pm 
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I know it's a lot to ask, but could you run this PSU through the efficiency test? Or open it up and check for sure if it is a rebranded Seasonic. Efficiency is the most important factor in an office PC, and this format makes an ideal office PC. I'm wondering if it would make sense to put a picoPSU in, with the brick inside the case.

Two possible mods for this case:

Remove the 8cm fan from the PSU, and the extra piece of metal ontop of the PSU, then put the 8cm vertically in the PSU chamber. This might make for a smoother airflow with more space atop the PSU.

Stick a car air filter on the inside of the two 9cm fan holes, and somehow mount two 9cm fans ontop of the filter, then you have a filtered, positive pressure main compartment.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:21 pm 
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cAPSLOCK wrote:
Or open it up and check for sure if it is a rebranded Seasonic.

It is. I'm certain.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:53 pm 
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How would an IDE cable to the optical drive in the top chamber be routed? Seems disastrous. :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:14 pm 
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I have two of these cases. The first one had problems with the power supply so I got another one. I needed it quickly so I just ordered another rather than deal with the RMA. I'm in the process of sending it back though.

I had problems as well with the short power cables. Initially I intended to put in a Ninja and cool it passively. The location of the rear exhast and the power supply chamber seemed like a good fit. However, the cables coming out of the upper chamber prevented me from installing the ninja. It might have worked but it was not worth it to me. I wish the cables came out the other side of the chamber near the motherboard where most towers have extra room. I guess this would interfere with standard heatsinks though. I switched the Ninja for a Zalman AlCu 7000 and everything went together just fine. I put my Raptor hard drive in the upper chamber and removed the grill in front of it to get the best airflow possible. Harddrive temps where sorta high at 48C so I taped the top vent and they dropped to 44C.

This system was not the quietest I have ever built but it was sufficiently quiet enough for me at home. At work where I use the computer, it is not even close to being audible. Overall, I don't think this case is a good fit for people looking for the quietest system. The limitation of the SFX power supply does not allow you to select a quieter power supply and the limit on hard drives and optical drives may put some off. However, and this is something I don't think MikeC emphasized enough, is the small size of the case compared to other mATX cases. I haven't seen too many cases this small before. It is also a huge benefit to already have soft hard drive mounts built into the case.

For many of you casual silencers, the case is powerfull, and quiet enough for you. I also think it is a great case for your friends and family builds. They will appriciate its small size will be happy enough with the quietness out of the box.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:32 pm 
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Hey Mike

On page 4 of the review the section labeled "Hard Drive Details" should be "Power Supply Details" 8)

Thanks

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:43 pm 
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monkiman wrote:
Hey Mike

On page 4 of the review the section labeled "Hard Drive Details" should be "Power Supply Details" 8)

Thanks

corrected.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:45 pm 
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The PSU is the real achilles heel of this whole case. All of its problems seem to spawn from that little corner of the case.

I'd have to dig out the images to be sure, but I'm 99.44% sure that the prototype we first saw at CES had a much different venting solution for the PSU chamber. The original vent was very P180-like, and located directly above the fan on the PSU. I'm almost positive that it was not the little offset slits that we see on the retail version. A guess as to why they would have changed it would be that having an open vent above the fan of the PSU is a no-no from a certification standpoint...imagine someone dropping a piece of metal down through the vent, and through the fan, and having it land in contact with the high voltage bits in the PSU. Just a guess, but I could see where UL might not like that.

To be honest, I don't know why Antec did an SFX in there at all. An ATX PSU is only 46mm wider, and 23.5mm taller. (there's plenty of room for extra length in there) Judging by the pics, there's probably 10mm's of extra room on each side of the SFX PSU in there now, so switching to ATX would have only added about 2 1/2cm's to the total case width, maybe zero if they redesigned the thick frame rails on each side of the PSU. Switching the top vent to a P180 styled vent would let a 120mm fanned PSU inhale right through the top panel.


This might be a fun case to mod though. A laundry-list of mods off the top of my head:
-Swap the Tricool for something quieter.
-Extend the PSU cable hole to the other side to gain a few inches of cable length.
-Cut a 120mm hole right above the PSU, then yank the 80mm fan out of the PSU, and replace it with a quiet 120mm fan mounted in a pyramidal adaptor under the new vent.
-Rather than the bottom-of-the-case HDD location, you could run yourself some strands of Stretchmagic veritcally right behind the 92mm fan mounts, and suspend the drive on edge right there.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:48 pm 
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jaganath wrote:
I'm not sure what this case offers that a generic mATX wouldn't though


It's cute/ good looks? It harmonizes nicely with a P150 or any of the other new Antec black and silver cases.

I really like this little case. I bought it on a whim, not expecting much, and have been very pleasantly surprised. I have a Celeron D 2.4 Ghz and a single SATA drive in it running Server 2003 and performing duties as a small file, print and terminal server. The power supply doesn't seem to ramp up at all with this configuration. It's sitting several metres away from my desk, so I don't hear it unless I sit down right next to the case/ put my ears up close.

edit: it is also the perfect case for when you are building a computer for your aunt, sister, etc. It's quiet enough that they won't be irritated when they are working at the computer. You can cram a mobo/ cpu combo into it that is adequate for word processing, web, email, etc. Plus it is reasonably attractive. (As someone mentioned above, it would also be a perfect case for low to moderate powered office computers - it's quiet enough to be un-noticeable in a typical office environment)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:59 pm 
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Seems like a lot of trouble to work with. The Silverstone TJ08, used in the recently reviewed Puget Core Duo system, is only a bit bigger but roomier and allows the use of a standard ATX PSU. It is expensive, though, at about $100 without PSU.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:01 pm 
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IMO the PSU is the best part of this system. It isn't the quietest, but efficiency (especially at low loads) rivals that of the PicoPSU and an external brick. I think this case would be perfect for minimalist systems, i.e. single-core or low-end dual-core CPU, integrated or low-end video. Power supply should run very efficient and not ramp up too much. For a high-end gaming system, stick with the ATX Antec cases. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:38 pm 
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I verified that an ATX power supply will indeed fit in the case. You would have to either use a 80mm NeoHe style power supply and cut out some of the back of the power supply mount, or you can cut the bottom of the chamber out and convert it to not use the psu chamber. The NeoHe would work better, maintaining the chamber. However, my standard sized truepower 380 left virtually no room between the benq DVD burner and the power supply. Doing this prevents the use of the top hard drive mount as well. This is due to the short depth of the case. I think this is the primary reason they use the SFX power supply in the case. You would have to use a shorty optical drive if you wanted this to work. A DC-DC converter and a 80mm fan at 5V could also sit in this space.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:31 pm 
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Two weeks ago I built a low-power, AM2 office computer for a relative with this case, and I expected a more positive response to this case from the SPCR community. The case may not be well suited for a completely silent system (without switching to an AC-DC + DC-DC PS), but it's the most quiet stock case I've ever used. It's also the smallest, the best-looking and the most economical case (considering the included PSU) that I've built with. The soft HDD mounts on the bottom of the case, in particular, were vastly useful. Sure they're not the most effective available decoupling solution, but I'm hardly going to jury-rig the HDD into place with elastic bands when I'm building a computer for someone else; it's simply not a secure enough solution for unwary computer users.

The only questionable design elements were found in the top chamber.
First of all, the cable routing isn't necessarily difficult, it just seems like it to most of us because we're used to using gigantic CPU heatsinks. If I remember correctly, the review used the new, monstrous zalman 9500cu (is that right?). With a standard size heatsink there would be no problem. However, being too stubborn to abandon a new heatsink I installed a scythe katana, and yes, I accidently bent some fins just trying to get the cables around it.
Secondly, the top chamber is not a good location for a hard drive, meaning that if you want two drives you should be prepared to suspend it under the floppy bay. I say this for two reasons: there's barely enough space for a drive up top, and even if there were enough ventilation up there, it would be silly to stress the PSU cooling fan any more when the main chamber has such good airflow.

Still, despite the flaws, I would highly recommend this case to anyone given certain conditions. This case should not be used for a high powered system. I wouldn't use it with a pentium 4 processor, multiple optical drives, multiple HDDs or even with a dedicated video card. Fortunately, the average office or home PC needs none of those things.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:11 pm 
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SFF Club has some pics from their review of an S12-500 in the top section.

Check it out:
http://www.sffclub.com/index.php?option ... mitstart=4

the pics are obscenely large though. 56k beware.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:30 pm 
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nonerz wrote:
...I expected a more positive response to this case from the SPCR community...

I agree. This kind of general reaction seems to happen whenever we review something that's not meant to be the best of the best. Perhaps the folks that hang in the forums are the pickiest of the silencers and they want to hear/read only about gear/things that will enhance their silent quest.

This is kind of a case equivalent of one of Arctic Cooling's really cheap but highly effective and quiet HSF. There is a real need for such things. If Dell or HP were smart and wanted lower the noise of their systems, this case would be a good model copy.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:26 am 
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definately a good case for those looking to build an out-of-the-box quiet system for work/friends/family or even themselves. There are a lot of people who don't want to cut their case or get tangled up in knicker elastic, and this case is perfect for them. I think it says alot for the progress made in quiet computing over the years that it's now possible to assemble a low to midrange system that's acceptably quiet without any modification at all.

Other than the PSU, I'd consider it as a replacement for my SLK1650B as and when I upgrade.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:42 am 
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Quote:
I agree. This kind of general reaction seems to happen whenever we review something that's not meant to be the best of the best. Perhaps the folks that hang in the forums are the pickiest of the silencers and they want to hear/read only about gear/things that will enhance their silent quest.


I want to clarify that I wasn't totally dismissing this case out of hand; like everything it has its plus points and its minus points; yeah, it's cheap, but it also has flaws; if it's aimed at non-tech savvy people who don't care overly much about noise, that is not SPCR's demographic. Of course, many people on SPCR build systems for other people who are less demanding noise-wise, and as a case + efficient PSU for $65 it's hard to beat.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:02 am 
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what to do if psu breaks down the road? is a replacement available at retail?

regards


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:19 am 
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My one experience with Antec customer service was fatanstic. After about a year of heavy use the side panel clips on my SLK3700-BQE decided to stop working. Emailed Antec and an entire replacement side panel was promptly shipped out at no charge.

So I'd tend to think you should have no problems getting a replacement PSU if it fails within the warranty period (three years, right?). Just make sure you don't lose proof of purchase.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:46 am 
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MikeC / Devon,

A bit off-topic, but...

I presume you have some insight, or atleast you might know the Antec people's thoughts, on the NSK cases so I'd like to ask you something.

The NSK3300 has 2 * 92mm intake fans, NSK4400 has 1 * 80mm fan and the NSK6500 has 2 * 92mm intake fans. Was there any reason why the NSK4400 doesn't have the dual 92mm intakes?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:01 am 
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Aleksi wrote:
MikeC / Devon,

A bit off-topic, but...

I presume you have some insight, or atleast you might know the Antec people's thoughts, on the NSK cases so I'd like to ask you something.

The NSK3300 has 2 * 92mm intake fans, NSK4400 has 1 * 80mm fan and the NSK6500 has 2 * 92mm intake fans. Was there any reason why the NSK4400 doesn't have the dual 92mm intakes?

AFAIK, the 3300 is a brand new build, so perhaps the front and back panels are modified versions of the one used in the P150, which was also a new build. The 6500 is basically a modernized version of the SLK3700/3000, and it may use another modified version of the P150 front panel. The 4400 seems like a SLK1650 with a new facia -- hardly changed at all. It looks to me like the NSK series will replace the SLK. I expect, in general, that the NSK series are intended for system integrators as much as for retail. Those are my guesses.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:26 pm 
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Quote:
I agree. This kind of general reaction seems to happen whenever we review something that's not meant to be the best of the best. Perhaps the folks that hang in the forums are the pickiest of the silencers and they want to hear/read only about gear/things that will enhance their silent quest.


Don't get me wrong either. I absolutely love my nsk3300 even after getting a faulty power supply. I feel it is the best case available in mATX mini tower format. It is ideal for basic needs such as mine. I would not however, build a high power or ultra quiet system in it because of the SFX power supply. For the majority of casual readers of this site looking for a basic mATX system, you can't go wrong. The power supply is sufficient for any system you can build into this case and you can build a quiet system without any extra fans or modifications. This case coupled with a Artic Cooling Alpine HSF is probably a great budget quiet solution. However, there are limitations to it and many users looking to build systems are likely to want more expansion than this system can handle even if they never use that expansion.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:39 am 
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Front Bezel duct? seems to scream for one right? one, lower pioneer rubber encased dvd combo burner, and one duct to a psu straight across.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:19 pm 
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i should think the PSU could be silenced pretty well.. all i had to do with my fsp (which is less efficient) was get it a fresh supply of air and connect the fan cable to my mobos adjustable fan speed header and set it just above starting speed.. inaudible from more than a foot away, cool, and haven't even touched the grills.

anyway, IMO this thing is totally ugly and pointless, meerly from the fact its the same width as a large ATX case. its even wider than what an ATX case has to be, as it has a 120mm fan, making it wider than an ATX PSU.. and (whilst i have no problem with using a mATX PSU when necessary) given this, its totally pointless to not have an ATX PSU.

no one out there is making a good, small mATX case (atleast, avaiable to buy).. its so simple; all u need is 2x80mm at the back, 2x92mm at the front; above and below a vertical optical bay, and perhaps a 120mm at the top. u could even put 2 at the bottom if u put some small feet on it, or stood it sideways..

i'd also like to see someone make an even smaller mATX case designed with the pico PSU in mind, ie no space for PSU.. :twisted:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:39 pm 
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Quote:
no one out there is making a good, small mATX case (atleast, avaiable to buy).. its so simple; all u need is 2x80mm at the back, 2x92mm at the front; above and below a vertical optical bay, and perhaps a 120mm at the top. u could even put 2 at the bottom if u put some small feet on it, or stood it sideways..


Too many fans. 1 120mm at the back is all you need for almost any system


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:44 pm 
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autoboy wrote:
I absolutely love my nsk3300


I love my NSK3300, too. :) It's one of those rare purchases I feel completely at peace with. For the money, it is a brilliant little case. Pop in a Sempron or AMD 3200, an Alpine 64 cooler, and a gig of cheap memory, and you have a very inexpensive, & rather quiet, little work horse perfect for light server duties or a workstation for email, web, etc.

It would have been interesting if the review had looked at the case with a relatively low power chip (a E6400, a Semprom or AMD3200 or even a X23800) and a more modestly sized heat sink. I used a Zalman alcu 7000 and an ASUS P4S800-MX and didn't seem to have quite as many problems in terms of routing the cables.


Last edited by aidanjm2004 on Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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