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 Post subject: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:44 pm 
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http://www.silentpcreview.com/Intel_DH67BL_Asus_P8H67-M_EVO_H67_Motherboards


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:13 pm 
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Thanks Lawrence. I tend to like the Asus board more, based on your review, as it has more display and video I/O ports. I think it would make a great HTPC mobo paired with an i3 chip, even with fewer fan control options. It's a shame the idle power draw wasn't a bit lower though.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:10 am 
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I'm still wondering about the overclocking.

On another forum I read that the "No Overclocking For H67" is only about the option to adjust the CPU multiplier by a few steps, which P67 offers for ALL Sandy Bridge CPU's. Adjusting it by many steps for K-type processor should be available on H67 as well. This would make much more sense anyway.

Intel's website has very little info on this subject, but I found the Product Brief for the H67-chipset, which claims: "Intel H67 Express Chipset also enables overclocking features of unlocked 2nd generation Intel Core processors." (It's the exact same wording as used for the P67.)
And the ASUS board you tested DOES have an option to set the multiplier. (It's not in the AI Tweaks section but in the Advanced Menu, under CPU Configuration. See page 3-13 of the manual.) So has the board of my choice (Gigabyte.)

All in all I still have some hope, but the information I can find is sufficiently unclear and contradictory to make it a fearful one.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:37 am 
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any comments on boot times for these boards? i was very interested to see what the new UEFI bios could do...


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:57 am 
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I bought the ASUS board and a processor yesterday from a local store. I selected the ASUS board because I plan to buy a large monitor sometime in the future and without the DisplayPort connector I would be limited to 1920x1200 resolution.

I want a computer that is both quieter and much faster when I am editing photos than my 5 year old Pentium 4D Dell. Since I rarely play games the integrated graphics on the Sandy Bridge parts will be fine as long since large monitors are supported. A graphics card would either add another fan to the system or not have much more performance than the integrated graphics. I bought the i5-2500K locally because it was $180 instead of the $225 newegg wanted. The stock speed of the i5 will be adequate for me so the lack of overclocking was not a deal killer. If my local store had the clock locked version of the i5 available at a discount I would have considered it instead of the K part I ended up buying.

For what I want in a computer the H67 chipset is the best choice. I would have waited for the next chipset which is supposed to both support integrated graphics and allow overclocking except that the hums, rattles and occasional buzzes from my current computer are really starting to annoy me. If I do not get a new computer soon I might have ended slapping it to make a buzz stop and crashing the hard drive.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:00 am 
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Quote:
The P8H67's BIOS offers more extensive voltage control, though it's not really useful due to the aforementioned inherent overclocking limitations of the H67 chipset. Its only real advantages are a wider range of memory controls and fully customizable control of two of the board's three fan headers.

Should be better for CPU undervolting then shouldn't it with it's +/- fine tuning?


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:32 am 
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Folks, would it be possible to correct the consistent misuse of "it's" rather than "its" throughout the text? It detracts from a most informative and useful article.

Art


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:36 am 
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geerten wrote:
I'm still wondering about the overclocking.
On another forum I read that the "No Overclocking For H67" is only about the option to adjust the CPU multiplier by a few steps, which P67 offers for ALL Sandy Bridge CPU's. Adjusting it by many steps for K-type processor should be available on H67 as well. This would make much more sense anyway.
Intel's website has very little info on this subject, but I found the Product Brief for the H67-chipset, which claims: "Intel H67 Express Chipset also enables overclocking features of unlocked 2nd generation Intel Core processors." (It's the exact same wording as used for the P67.)
And the ASUS board you tested DOES have an option to set the multiplier. (It's not in the AI Tweaks section but in the Advanced Menu, under CPU Configuration. See page 3-13 of the manual.) So has the board of my choice (Gigabyte.)
All in all I still have some hope, but the information I can find is sufficiently unclear and contradictory to make it a fearful one.

I had some hope for a day or two but after reading reviews over the weekend H67 is seemingly locked down even for the K series chips. I’ve seen speculation that this isn’t the case but all the actual hands on reports say it’s a no go.
It seems a very strange choice for Intel to lock the K series on one of their chipsets. They must have limited it in the chipset or Gigabyte or Asus would just offer it as a BIOS option.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:48 pm 
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smilingcrow wrote:
I had some hope for a day or two but after reading reviews over the weekend H67 is seemingly locked down even for the K series chips. I’ve seen speculation that this isn’t the case but all the actual hands on reports say it’s a no go.
It seems a very strange choice for Intel to lock the K series on one of their chipsets. They must have limited it in the chipset or Gigabyte or Asus would just offer it as a BIOS option.

Well, as I mentioned, according to the manuals they DO offer it as an option...
This is all very confusing. Just have to wait patiently, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:11 pm 
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That's a real disappointment about the fan control on the DH67BL. I had this one in mind to replace a ASUS A8N-Sli Premium that's never really been stable (doesn't reliably sleep/resume, amongst other problems), so I'm looking for something rock solid (I figured that an Intel motherboard would be best).

I really don't want to run software fan control (I much prefer something that's OS and user-independent). Does anyone have any idea how loud, say, a Nexus 120mm fan would be at the lowest level on this motherboard? I'm also wondering at what temperature it ramps up and down. Anyone at SPCR care to comment?

The A8N-Sli I have is quite smooth for ramping up/down its fans. I also have a A8N-VM that's stays low for longer, then ramps up quickly and stays high for longer (a great big hole in the hysterisis graph, if you will). The devil is in the detail with these. How about something to attenuate the fans - would that help?

Thanks. Since no other review has mentioned this, it just shows that that even after all these years and silencing becoming mainstream, no one does silent computing like SPCR.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:05 pm 
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ArtShapiro wrote:
Folks, would it be possible to correct the consistent misuse of "it's" rather than "its" throughout the text? It detracts from a most informative and useful article.

Art

There were only two such typos, and they've been corrected.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:16 pm 
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geerten wrote:
Well, as I mentioned, according to the manuals they DO offer it as an option.

That will likely refer to the fact that you can adjust the multiplier DOWNWARDS in the BIOS. There is a lot of cut and past and ambiguity in manuals at times so better to rely on the hands on reports.

geerten wrote:
This is all very confusing. Just have to wait patiently, I guess.

It’s a done deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:43 pm 
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A very useful double review, thank you so very much!

I wonder if the Intel board would have a lower load power consumption, had they bothered to cool the VRM.

I find the P8H67-M Pro model from Asus more interesting than the EVO with all its VRM excessiveness. It has a more sensible number of power phases (4+2), likely lower idle power consumption and the price is also closer to the Intel board. It lacks DisplayPort though, the only worthwile upgrade of the EVO model in my books. It's a shame these DVIs aren't dual link, but I suppose that's due to a chipset limitation.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:28 pm 
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smilingcrow wrote:
That will likely refer to the fact that you can adjust the multiplier DOWNWARDS in the BIOS. There is a lot of cut and past and ambiguity in manuals at times so better to rely on the hands on reports.


That doesn't make sense since the manual states the multiplier depends on CPU used. What does the chipset have to do with this. Even if multiplier is stuck, Turbo multipliers should have at least +4bins on any cpu with turbo2.0 present.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:34 pm 
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Intel has a version with DisplayPort output, the DH67GD:
http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/m ... erview.htm

Also a mini-ITX version, the DH67CF:
http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/m ... erview.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:02 pm 
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smilingcrow wrote:
That will likely refer to the fact that you can adjust the multiplier DOWNWARDS in the BIOS.


yuu wrote:
That doesn't make sense since the manual states the multiplier depends on CPU used.

Traditionally you can lower the multiplier in the BIOS hence my reference to adjusting it downwards. Just because you can’t over-clock doesn’t mean that SpeedStep isn’t working which allows the multiplier to be lowered. Not sure if that is confirmed for Sandy Bridge though.

yuu wrote:
What does the chipset have to do with this.

Everything, that’s the whole frigging point!!!!!!!!
You can over-clock a K series with the P67 but not with the H67. Dig!

yuu wrote:
Even if multiplier is stuck, Turbo multipliers should have at least +4bins on any cpu with turbo2.0 present.

Turbo Boost and over-clocking are different things.
You need to resit Sandy Bridge 101. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:38 am 
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This is a pretty stupid question but I've not seen the answer anywhere yet, possibly due to my limited attention span:

Do these new motherboards have the same heatsink mounting holes as LGA1156 boards?

I'm assuing yes due to the heatsink used in this test, but always better to ask then waste cash.

Also just in case anyone hadn't already noticed, quicksync (intel's speedy GPU based video transcoding engine) only works on boards with support for the on-chip GPU, i.e. H67. Apparently the GPU bit of the processor has to be active, so even on H67 if you're using a third party graphics card you'll need a monitor plugged into an onboard video port. Otherwise the built in GPU disables itself and once again you have no quicksync.

So you can either have no overclocking and quicksync (H67), or overclocking and no quicksync (P67).
If you want both you have to wait another 2 or 3 months for some rumoured high end chipset that lets you do both but probably costs lots.

I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 pm 
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I look forward to seeing what Gigabyte do :) In my personal experience their fan controller is usually right up there and they seem to care a lot about making board that are efficient.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:32 pm 
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mimp wrote:
This is a pretty stupid question but I've not seen the answer anywhere yet, possibly due to my limited attention span:

Do these new motherboards have the same heatsink mounting holes as LGA1156 boards?


Yes, they have:
in Sandy Bridge part 1 Lawrence Lee wrote:
Despite developing a new socket, Intel took pity on end-users by not changing the CPU heatsink mounting hole configuration.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:47 pm 
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I'm a bit worried by: "The P8H67-M EVO's CPU Fan header is controllable with PWM fans only, while its Chassis Fan header can control both PWM and DC fans".

Is the Scythe Mugen 2 rev B a PWM fan? Would it be compatible with a 2500K on a ASUS P8H67 or P8P67?


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:50 pm 
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Never mind, it seems like it is a PWM fan:

"Mugen 2 Rev. B CPU Cooler | Fan-Specifications - Model Name::Slip Stream 120 PWM"
http://www.scythe-eu.com/en/products/cp ... rev-b.html


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:53 pm 
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THANK YOU!! This review is so spot-on what I was looking for! Crazy. No one else does a comparison of power efficiency as thoroughly as you guys.

However, as someone else mentioned, I also wish you had compared boot times between the two boards. From what I understand, EUFI shortens boot time compared to "old-school" bios. Period. This should be true with any manufacturer. The question is, by how much, specifically? Should be an easy test to do.

I was actually almost ready to buy this exact ASUS board... but looking at the competition from Intel makes me pause. I might change my mind, since my PC will be in idle or light load the vast majority of the time. Can anyone tell me anything about doing a dual display setup with either of these boards? I'm a complete newb when it comes to dual display. I've never done it before. Will it be possible with both boards? And how? Would it be done through the same connector via some kind of splitter or "daisy-chaining", or do I need to hook each one up to a separate connector? I want to run 2 1920x1200 monitors.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:19 pm 
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Hello, I got the DH67BL board and the i5-2300 cpu. I downloaded Speedfan 4.42, however, no matter how I change the 3 speed settings, none of the RPM's change at all. Any help on how you got it working?


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:43 am 
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wundi wrote:
A very useful double review, thank you so very much!

I wonder if the Intel board would have a lower load power consumption, had they bothered to cool the VRM.

I find the P8H67-M Pro model from Asus more interesting than the EVO with all its VRM excessiveness. It has a more sensible number of power phases (4+2), likely lower idle power consumption and the price is also closer to the Intel board. It lacks DisplayPort though, the only worthwile upgrade of the EVO model in my books. It's a shame these DVIs aren't dual link, but I suppose that's due to a chipset limitation.


Why do you think it likely has lower power consumption? I'm trying to decide between those two reviewed boards, as well as the Pro.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:12 am 
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DaRuSsIaMaN wrote:
Can anyone tell me anything about doing a dual display setup with either of these boards?

You connect the 2 monitors to different display outputs. DVI is limited to 1920x1200 but since that is what you will be using it will not be a problem. It is best to stick with digital if you can. If one of your monitors has a DisplayPort connector I would use DVI and DisplayPort. Otherwise you will have to use VGA on one of them. The operatings system takes care of the rest.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:53 am 
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DaRuSsIaMaN wrote:
Can anyone tell me anything about doing a dual display setup with either of these boards? I'm a complete newb when it comes to dual display. I've never done it before. Will it be possible with both boards? And how? Would it be done through the same connector via some kind of splitter or "daisy-chaining", or do I need to hook each one up to a separate connector? I want to run 2 1920x1200 monitors.


Disregarding these specific boards, each monitor always needs a separate connector, and you can't split or chain them for any practical purposes. I'm sure you can use both your monitors with either motherboard by connecting them to the DVI and HDMI connectors, for example. You will only run into problems if both your monitors lack any kind of digital connector, because I think these boards only support one analog monitor.


DaRuSsIaMaN wrote:
Why do you think it likely has lower power consumption? I'm trying to decide between those two reviewed boards, as well as the Pro.


Oh, I base that simply on the fact that it's a simpler board. Less power phases, less onboard features. FireWire for one, not sure if there's anything else though. Obviously the difference isn't huge, but if either of the boards consumed less power at idle, my money would be on the Pro. At high loads it's probably the other way around, alone for the fact that the Evo seems to have better VRM cooling, which might lead to higher efficiency.

When I'm looking for a new motherboard, I try to make a decision based on the features that I actually need. Traditionally I've chosen boards that have features that I might need one day, but end up never using. For example if I bought a 30" screen, I'd need DisplayPort (and consequently the Evo board). But I try to tell myself that I'm not going to get a goddamn 30" monitor, there's not even enough room on my desk. I also try to tell myself I don't need Sandy Bridge, but it looks futile. :D

While I'm rambling on... I think specifically the i3 processors are a perfect match for H67. This is because they wouldn't support any kind of overclocking anyway, even with P67. When you match a crippled CPU with a crippled chipset, you end up getting exactly what you paid for. To that end, I find it ironic that Intel's DH67BL and DH67GD don't officially support Core i3. (Yes, I realise that's a mistake on their website.)

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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:09 pm 
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wundi wrote:
Oh, I base that simply on the fact that it's a simpler board. Less power phases, less onboard features. FireWire for one, not sure if there's anything else though. Obviously the difference isn't huge, but if either of the boards consumed less power at idle, my money would be on the Pro. At high loads it's probably the other way around, alone for the fact that the Evo seems to have better VRM cooling, which might lead to higher efficiency.


But asus claims the 8+2 phase design actually leads to higher efficiency. See the second bullet on their page:
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=CkMiq3rrqw3yqO5H&templete=2

Is it bs?

Also, do you or anyone else know what the difference is between having GPU Boost "with switch" vs. "without switch"? What switch? The Evo has it with switch, while the Pro is without. It says this in the detailed specs. I'm actually interested in the GPU Boost feature, so I don't want to end up with a crippled version if I get the Pro.
And what about this: "Auto Tuning* (adopt Fast Mode) " That's from the Pro. What does that mean? Is it completely irrelevant since there is no OCing possible on these boards anyway?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:32 pm 
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DaRuSsIaMaN wrote:
But asus claims the 8+2 phase design actually leads to higher efficiency. See the second bullet on their page:
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=CkMiq3rrqw3yqO5H&templete=2

Is it bs?


I suppose it can be more efficient under high load, but at idle, it's more efficient to run on fewer phases. IIRC, the whole EPU feature was originally built around the idea of saving power by shutting down extra phases when they weren't needed.


DaRuSsIaMaN wrote:
Also, do you or anyone else know what the difference is between having GPU Boost "with switch" vs. "without switch"? What switch? The Evo has it with switch, while the Pro is without. It says this in the detailed specs. I'm actually interested in the GPU Boost feature, so I don't want to end up with a crippled version if I get the Pro.
And what about this: "Auto Tuning* (adopt Fast Mode) " That's from the Pro. What does that mean? Is it completely irrelevant since there is no OCing possible on these boards anyway?


From the review: "It should be noted that GPU overclocking is not a special feature — it is standard on all H67 boards, the DH67BL included."

Here's the magic switch: zoom in under the black PCI-E slot. I'd imagine it's just an automatic GPU overclocking feature of some sort.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:21 pm 
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Thank you for this review. The lack of fan control on the Asus board when using a 3-pin fan on the cpu fanheader eliminates it from my shortlist. Without this review I never would have found out till I bought it. Speedfan is more convenient than bios control and there are not enough good pwm fans out there. Besides, I'm happy with my current fans and don't have the desire to replace them.

Also, I'm assuming this is the case for all Asus P67/H67 mATX boards? And maybe on their ATX boards as well? All my previous Asus ATX boards allowed me to control the 4-pin cpu fanheader using Speedfan. So this would be an unwelcome step back.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandy Bridge, Part 2: Intel DH67BL & Asus P8H67-M EVO
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:29 pm 
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sssttt wrote:
Thank you for this review. The lack of fan control on the Asus board when using a 3-pin fan on the cpu fanheader eliminates it from my shortlist. Without this review I never would have found out till I bought it. Speedfan is more convenient than bios control...

I'm not sure I agree with you on this. BIOS fan controls basically cannot be broken, unlike all in-OS utilities -- even speedfan. Unless you have a need to manually change the fan speed, why would you not use the Asus BIOS fan controls? They are extremely customizable, can be completely automated to respond precisely to thermal conditions AND stay quiet (with the right hardware mix, of course) and even the stock silent mode is very good. Puget uses them for great results in... http://www.silentpcreview.com/Serenity_ ... _Bridge_PC

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