SPCR

Digital.J wrote:So, in short, either this SS-350TGM is excellent quality (judging by the two reviews) and can suit, either it is not good quality.

I'm convinced that the TFX is great in terms of quality, but that doesn't mean it's made to last like a server PSU that operates in hot environments, 24/7 all year around.

It all depends on how it will be used, something only you know. From what you've been telling us so far, I'd go with the TFX anyway, I don't see much options.
What kind of PSU will it replace?

Mats wrote:It all depends on how it will be used, something only you know. From what you've been telling us so far, I'd go with the TFX anyway, I don't see much options.
What kind of PSU will it replace?

Application is 24/7, 200w (even lower) constant load, and is a new generation system and an evolution of the old one. Going from 4U / 19inch chassis to 4U / half of 19inch chassis, it's called a shoe-box.

Environment is climatized @ 25°C, but qualification has to pass 45°C ambient temperature in case of climatization failure or absence.

As it is new development in a compact chassis, i am struggling to take in account the hot internal temperature of the chassis. Interest in TFX is that it could also extract heat as it was the base of the FTX standard.

MikeC wrote: I would simply repeat what I said earlier, in a different way: I bet there's no PSU maker who will give a 10 year warranty for an industrial/commercial application like yours.

In fact, i indeed know this point. We have 1 or 2 year warranty on this type of PSU, and on MTBF, the rule or consensus is the 100kh lifetime (without fan, @25°C, etc).
I wanted an opinion on TFX as my system integrator is against TFX spec as he had bad experiences in the past with such PSU (talking about old generations i guess, when efficiency/quality was not so good) and as he judges that the TFX spec is for wide public product and not aimed for industrial purposes. So i'm trying to make my own opinion as i start on this domain (PSU qualification and TFX vs ATX).

MikeC wrote: the 1U PSUs probably all run their fans at higher speed all the time, because there's so much more internal impedance to airflow than the TFX12V form factor, and servers almost always run at higher loads. iirc, most server techs look for 60~70% PSU load.

Personnally, i tested the ZIPPY P1H-5400V (1U, 400W, ATX, server model) that my integrator advised me at first, and with only 1 CPU board of 80W load, the fan rises slowly to max speed @ 52dBA noise... in same test configuration, SS-350TGM fan does not activate at all, as temperature is normal and load is under 50%. So i agree, but not on the load.

Digital.J wrote:In fact, i indeed know this point. We have 1 or 2 year warranty on this type of PSU, and on MTBF, the rule or consensus is the 100kh lifetime (without fan, @25°C, etc).
I wanted an opinion on TFX as my system integrator is against TFX spec as he had bad experiences in the past with such PSU (talking about old generations i guess, when efficiency/quality was not so good) and as he judges that the TFX spec is for wide public product and not aimed for industrial purposes. So i'm trying to make my own opinion as i start on this domain (PSU qualification and TFX vs ATX).

Ah, the more complete disclosure makes your queries more understandable.

Digital.J wrote:

MikeC wrote:the 1U PSUs probably all run their fans at higher speed all the time, because there's so much more internal impedance to airflow than the TFX12V form factor, and servers almost always run at higher loads. iirc, most server techs look for 60~70% PSU load.

Personnally, i tested the ZIPPY P1H-5400V (1U, 400W, ATX, server model) that my integrator advised me at first, and with only 1 CPU board of 80W load, the fan rises slowly to max speed @ 52dBA noise... in same test configuration, SS-350TGM fan does not activate at all, as temperature is normal and load is under 50%.

Right. If it was my project, I would ask Seasonic to make a slight variant -- make the fan turn on at minimum speed as soon as power is turned on. If you want maximum lifespan, cooling is issue #1. Even at 80W, there's ~10W of heat. Using airflow to eliminate it would help prolong capacitor life over a 10 year period.

Love your quick answering. Haven't time to formulate all my thoughts (multiple edit) than i have already an answer.
FYI, full configuration is 6slots with 1 mobile CPU board plus 5 add-on boards max, which will do 200W consumption.
Haven't the add-on boards at disposal, so only tested with the CPU.
But imho, the fan will be working with this full configuration, i was not worried about that. Was just pointing the fact that heat is much more constraining in 1U ATX than 1.5U TFX PSU, so PSU fan will be more stressed and also PSU internal chips. And also that there seems to be a difference in fan use 'spirit' between those 2 PSUs.

Digital.J wrote:Love your quick answering. Haven't time to formulate all my thoughts (multiple edit) than i have already an answer.
FYI, full configuration is 6slots with 1 mobile CPU board plus 5 add-on board max, which would do 200W consumption.
Haven't the add-on boards at disposal, so only tested with the CPU.

So what you're saying is that normal load is 200W, which means the fan in the Seasonic would be on anyway. Good enough. I think it's probably a better bet than most 1U PSUs. Because....

1. high efficiency = low heat, which is good for longevity. But... you probably want to establish exactly how much AC power the system draws w/ the Seasonic to know exactly how much heat the box/PSU is dealing with.
2. low noise -- which is what you're seeking.
3. Seasonic quality is generally quite high... but you might want to ask them specifically about the caps used in this model, whether higher temp/quality variants could be used instead, perhaps.... depending on how many you seek (including a certain # of replacements I'm sure you would want to purchase upfront), this might be possible. They do OEM/ODM work, as you know.

Digital.J wrote:Application is railroad long-life equipment..

I would be very hesitant to deploy consumer-grade equipment in this application.

Digital.J wrote:FYI, full configuration is 6slots with 1 mobile CPU board plus 5 add-on boards max...

Hmm. Is this some sort of SBC or COM module-based system? Who is the vendor for your CPU boards? Certainly they sell an appropriate backplane or chassis w/power supply.

[edit]
For example, Kontron's cPCI transportaion applications products:

http://emea.kontron.com/industries/tran ... d+systems/

Jay_S wrote:

Digital.J wrote: Application is railroad long-life equipment..

I would be very hesitant to deploy consumer-grade equipment in this application.

Rest assured, marketing strategy is all about using industrial COTS for non-strategic functions, and proprietary and validated boards for security functions (which go to 600kh+). And we replace COTS when failure, while proprietary boards and equipments from ten years ago are still working 24/7.

Jay_S wrote: Is this some sort of SBC or COM module-based system? Who is the vendor for your CPU boards? Certainly they sell an appropriate backplane or chassis w/power supply.
For example, Kontron's cPCI transportation applications products

Right indeed, PICMG SBC and COM systems. Then private intel. And very few chassis exist and match our particular needs, so we made one. And Kontron is also one of our integrators, yet not on this system (but i will pass on comments about them ).

Can this power supply be purchased (Q1) in the USA? I can't find it on Newegg.com.

Listener wrote:Can this power supply be purchased (Q1) in the USA? I can't find it on Newegg.com.

I'd ask them: http://www.seasonicusa.com/contactus.htm

Thanks, Mike.

The Seasonic SS-350TGM 80 Plus Gold TFX has finally shown up at newegg.com for $ 70.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151115


Before I can buy one, I need to figure out:

- an adapter to mount it in a case intended

- A way to connect the fan inlet to the bottom vent opening on a case like the LIAN LI PC-A04B Black Aluminum MicroATX Mini Tower Computer Case.

Life would be simpler if Seasonic offered the same power supply guts in an ATX form factor.

Bill

Mike's psychic powers at work:
" The $70 price is a guess at what these units might sell for if it was made available for retail purchase (as OEM PSUs often are)."

Intresting product and review.

"At the super low 20W load, efficiency was excellent at over 77%" Is this figure really excellent? If I rememeber Dell had some PSUs that were much better in super low load.

SS-300TGW and SS-300M1U efficency figures are very similar, good chance that these two have same internals? (fan excluded)
http://www.plugloadsolutions.com/psu_re ... Report.pdf
At 20% loads both PSUs shows rougly 88% will these PSUs also fall down to 77% at 10% load?

Atm my home server consume 23W in idle, looking for better figures!

Where can I find the SS-350TGW? Does anyone know?

(Not SS-300TGW, SS-300TGM, or SS-350TGM)

A quick search turned up that no shop has it for sale, at least not in De or other Countries. You should inquire per mail, maybe write to the swedish office if Seasonic has one to sell in Europe.

The distributors don't have it listed, that's not a good sign I guess.

http://www.seasonic.com/buy/wherebuy.jsp

Newegg.com lists

The TFX power supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151114

and the regular ATX size power supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151117

Listener wrote:Newegg.com lists

The TFX power supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151114

Thanks, but that was what I specifically didn't want.

loimlo wrote:I hope Seasonic would shorten the cable length ..... No one is going to use such a small footprint PSU for bottom-mounted ATX case. (...)

You can't stop me! Bought this one 1 year ago from the Czech Republic (shipping to the Netherlands was almost as much as the price of the PSU, still cheaper than buying a Seasonic X-series)


The cables are very short, had to mount it under the CD drives otherwise the 4-pin CPU cable wouldn't be long enough.
Now looking at the 350tgm, there's 5 sellers in the Netherlands, so at least it's getting easier to buy one