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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:01 am 
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xen wrote:
Bitfenix Prodigy wants to be on a desk or a surface because it is a mobile device (it has handles) it has very colourful, attractive design

Even if not on a desk (because of its size) it wants to be in-view under it. Colours are personal but I like having a non-black, non-silver or non-white case.

xen wrote:
NCASE M1 is unlike these cases. It was designed with functional requirements but without purpose.

I don't agree it's fit for nothing, but I do think this statement has merit. It was "designed by geeks for geeks" (like most non-Apple hardware?) and aesthetics and usability aren't generally the highest priority.

I'd love to see geeks design an optimal layout for a case, specify what's needed for cooling, and then hand it over to designers and artists to make it a delight to look at and a pleasure to use.

quest_for_silence wrote:
the minute size of the M1 (and SG05) is welcomed

+1

quest_for_silence wrote:
given also that it doesn't impact that much the cooling prowess (it's not the same for some colorful, overgrown cubes, like the Prodigy Phenom or the Xigmatek Nebula)

Yes, what is it with cases like the Phenom designed without thought for cooling?


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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:54 am 
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I have to say I don't get it. How can anyone say this case is too big? Standard ATX cases these days are HUGE, mATX cases aren't much better, and the number of enthusiast mITX cases that approach ATX size is staggering.

This case is really small: 160x328mm footprint -- around 6.5x13". Definitely small enough for my desktop. I'm considering adopting a mITX board in this box for my main system... though I'd really prefer 2 slots. Too bad mini-DTX never really took off.

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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:49 pm 
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UK_Peter wrote:
Yes, what is it with cases like the Phenom designed without thought for cooling?

Well, it's not a real performing enclosure, here to you some "selective quotes" from the relevant SPCR review:
Quote:
...cable management is a pain... Managing the cables was difficult even with a modular PSU... it's hampered by a couple of serious design flaws. The lack of ventilation, particularly at the front of the case is appalling...
The removable hard drive cage and drive trays are poorly-fitted, making for the loosest drive assembly we've encountered... the entire cage highly prone to vibration...

Some of the relevant SPCR measurements: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1372-page7.html

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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:22 am 
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MikeC wrote:
I have to say I don't get it. How can anyone say this case is too big? Standard ATX cases these days are HUGE, mATX cases aren't much better, and the number of enthusiast mITX cases that approach ATX size is staggering.

What do case designers tell you when you mention that to them?
Quote:
This case is really small: 160x328mm footprint -- around 6.5x13". Definitely small enough for my desktop. I'm considering adopting a mITX board in this box for my main system... though I'd really prefer 2 slots. Too bad mini-DTX never really took off.

The M1 isn't for sale anymore is it?


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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:05 am 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
The M1 isn't for sale anymore is it?

AFAIK they ended the current batch (rev. 2) sale yesterday.

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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:58 am 
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MikeC wrote:
Standard ATX cases these days are HUGE, mATX cases aren't much better, and the number of enthusiast mITX cases that approach ATX size is staggering.

I totally agree. I'm sure there's an amount of upselling going on and 'enthusiasts' (who on Earth enthuses about their computer!?!) keep on buying more than they need because of ill-considered attempts at future proofing combined with bad advice on power supply sizes and cooling requirements.

This is why if you look inside proper workstations bought by grown-ups for doing grown-up work on they manage to fit dual Xeons and professional graphics cards in smaller cases than 'ethusiasts' enthuse over. Here's some numbers:
HP Z600: 445mm x 165mm x 440mm (32.3L)
Corsair Carbide 300R Compact PC gaming case: 485mm x 210mm x 449mm (45.7L)
Compact PC gaming case? Compact compared to what!?! The Moon?

And if you're really mental there's the Obsidian 900D: 692mm x 252mm x 650mm (113.3L)

Now given that you can get a Z600 with 12 cores of Xeon power, why would you ever need a 113 litre case? These people need their heads examining.

We are at a fantastic stage where we really could shrink down computers far more: SSDs are now common place, slim optical drives are little different in price to fullsize optical drives, MiniITX boards are available with pretty much everything on board, the latest graphics cards are far smaller and more power efficient than recent generations (who needs more than a GTX 750 Ti?) so why are the computers that people build still getting bigger? We need another Shuttle XPC moment.

Olaf van der Spek wrote:
The M1 isn't for sale anymore is it?

It's never really been for sale as such, only preorder. They're doing it in batches. Obviously if you got in touch with them and said you wanted one and didn't care how much it would cost, you could get one made. No idea if ever it will enter full production and be available through retail channels...

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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:42 am 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
MikeC wrote:
I have to say I don't get it. How can anyone say this case is too big? Standard ATX cases these days are HUGE, mATX cases aren't much better, and the number of enthusiast mITX cases that approach ATX size is staggering.

What do case designers tell you when you mention that to them?

I did speak about this with a bunch of case company reps at Computex in Taipei earlier this month. The answer is obvious if you examine what all these cases are built for: Housing large video cards and water cooling radiators. There's hardly an enthusiast case out there NOT designed for watercooling. We don't think much of them here at SPCR because they're noisier than air coolers, but closed-loop watercooling is totally mainstream for gamers & overclockers these days. They've taken over a big chunk of the high end CPU cooling market, and they're poised to do the same with video card cooling. A point of fact: Silverstone showed a very nice adapter for video cards to mount their watercoolers. I suspect you'll see mass migration from air to water cooling in high end video cards over the coming year.

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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:38 am 
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edh wrote:
Now given that you can get a Z600 with 12 cores of Xeon power, why would you ever need a 113 litre case? These people need their heads examining.

We are at a fantastic stage where we really could shrink down computers far more: SSDs are now common place, slim optical drives are little different in price to fullsize optical drives, MiniITX boards are available with pretty much everything on board, the latest graphics cards are far smaller and more power efficient than recent generations (who needs more than a GTX 750 Ti?) so why are the computers that people build still getting bigger? We need another Shuttle XPC moment.


[H]ard|Forum started with the M1, why can't we continue? We have a fantastic amount of expertise in this forum; even if not taken to production by us a public domain/free to use chassis design might spur on some case manufacturers to do the job.


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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:06 am 
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MikeC wrote:
We don't think much of them here at SPCR because they're noisier than air coolers, but closed-loop watercooling is totally mainstream for gamers & overclockers these days. They've taken over a big chunk of the high end CPU cooling market, and they're poised to do the same with video card cooling. A point of fact: Silverstone showed a very nice adapter for video cards to mount their watercoolers. I suspect you'll see mass migration from air to water cooling in high end video cards over the coming year.


If that's the way the market's going, is there much promise of silent water cooling? Silverstone have announced their pumpless cooler, and I understand some of the more expensive pumps are virtually silent (Eheim and Aqua Computer according to this forum).


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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:19 am 
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UK_Peter wrote:
MikeC wrote:
We don't think much of them here at SPCR because they're noisier than air coolers, but closed-loop watercooling is totally mainstream for gamers & overclockers these days. They've taken over a big chunk of the high end CPU cooling market, and they're poised to do the same with video card cooling. A point of fact: Silverstone showed a very nice adapter for video cards to mount their watercoolers. I suspect you'll see mass migration from air to water cooling in high end video cards over the coming year.


If that's the way the market's going, is there much promise of silent water cooling? Silverstone have announced their pumpless cooler, and I understand some of the more expensive pumps are virtually silent (Eheim and Aqua Computer according to this forum).

Yes, there is -- w/o a pump or w/ a very carefully designed pump. I saw the Silverstone "passive" WC, and it actually does make a bit of noise, iirc: bubbles running through the hoses. Not a big deal as this noise is far less obtrusive than any motor noise. How well it cools is yet to be determined, and there's still no escaping the need for fans on the radiator. Given the usual design of radiators, they have higher impedance than the best heatsinks & thus require more pressure (ie -- fan noise) for good cooling.

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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:08 pm 
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MikeC wrote:
Olaf van der Spek wrote:
MikeC wrote:
I have to say I don't get it. How can anyone say this case is too big? Standard ATX cases these days are HUGE, mATX cases aren't much better, and the number of enthusiast mITX cases that approach ATX size is staggering.

What do case designers tell you when you mention that to them?

I did speak about this with a bunch of case company reps at Computex in Taipei earlier this month. The answer is obvious if you examine what all these cases are built for: Housing large video cards and water cooling radiators. There's hardly an enthusiast case out there NOT designed for watercooling. We don't think much of them here at SPCR because they're noisier than air coolers, but closed-loop watercooling is totally mainstream for gamers & overclockers these days. They've taken over a big chunk of the high end CPU cooling market, and they're poised to do the same with video card cooling. A point of fact: Silverstone showed a very nice adapter for video cards to mount their watercoolers. I suspect you'll see mass migration from air to water cooling in high end video cards over the coming year.

I do get why some (most?) of the cases are designed for water cooling, but why can't they design one or two compact cases for air cooling?


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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:17 pm 
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Hi all, M1 designer here. I've been following the thread for a while, thought I'd chime in.

The primary design goal for the M1 was to pack as much performance into a case that's as small as reasonably possible, with the necessary cooling capability that entails. Noise was a consideration as well, which is part of the reason for watercooling support: with a full loop and 240mm radiator, both CPU and GPU can be sufficiently cooled with only moderate noise levels under load - as good or better than open GPU coolers in larger cases, and far superior to most blower coolers. Watercooling enables a balance between space efficiency, noise, and performance that air cooling can't match. That said, the target audience for the M1 isn't going to be quite as noise-sensitive as the SPCR crowd. The intention is more to be able to build a tiny beast of a gaming machine, that doesn't sound like a shopvac.


xen wrote:
I think the reasons for designing this case are not very sound.

It is intended to be placed on a desk or table-like surface, but it's height and shape are not suitable for such a thing. It is being designed as an ATX tower case that you can put on your desk. However, I would never ever put such a thing on my desk.

...

Questions to ask:
- why do I want to place a tower PC on my desk?
- where is the benefit as opposed to a real "desk-top" model computer?
- did we really intend to introduce a new form-factor for PCs?
- did we not actually conceive of a hybrid that is neither fit for desktop nor floor-standing placement?

And finally,

"how long will it take for me to become fed up with this monster sitting on top of my desk that shouldn't even have been placed there ever in the first place, and I will relegate it to some kind of server-closet where it doesn't matter what shape it has and where its looks will be wasted (or graciously hidden) anyway?"

:P :P :P.

Seriously folks it looks nice but not a lot of thought has been given to the "why".
xen wrote:

"I personally think the dimensions or proportions are off for putting it on a desk. I was initially convinced that it was a floor or desk-floor standing case. So I couldn't understand anything about it. After a while it dawned on me that people want to place this thing on their desks. I was flabbergasted because to me it is either too tall or too wide."
Your criticism here seems to me entirely subjective and arbitrary. You seem to have an issue with the proportions of the case, rather than it's size. I wonder if you'd prefer it on its side? The layout is actually pretty similar to many "shoebox" or "cube"-style cases, such as the SG07/SG08 and Node304, only oriented vertically instead of horizontally. It just happens to be one of the most space-efficient layouts possible, which is why you see it so often in the 10-20L case range. I consciously wanted to avoid the shoebox style - I've personally never liked it. The M1 is in fact smaller than either the SG07 and Node304, and approaches the volume of the SG05 and Shuttle XPCs. The vertical orientation also has a smaller footprint, which seems better suited to desktop use.


xen wrote:
The front door that looks like a front door and anyone would expect to operate as a front door is not a front door but rather something being designed as a front door while being nothing of the kind.
It's designed to be a front bezel or panel, like most cases (and electronics, for that matter) have. They certainly aren't all doors, and I'm not sure why you read it as such here. If it makes you feel better, it's removable. It just doesn't have hinges.

Keep in mind our material choice was pretty limited; creating something with a bit of character out of aluminum sheet is not the easiest - take a look at Lian Li's other cases.



UK_Peter wrote:
xen wrote:
NCASE M1 is unlike these cases. It was designed with functional requirements but without purpose.

I don't agree it's fit for nothing, but I do think this statement has merit. It was "designed by geeks for geeks" (like most non-Apple hardware?) and aesthetics and usability aren't generally the highest priority.

I'd love to see geeks design an optimal layout for a case, specify what's needed for cooling, and then hand it over to designers and artists to make it a delight to look at and a pleasure to use.
I take a bit of exception here; aesthetic design is very important to me, and was a significant consideration in the design of the M1. It might not be to your taste, and that's fine. My goals for the design were for an understated, minimalist aesthetic, but that retained a sense of identity. Again, the materials and processes I had to work with were pretty limited (aluminum sheet and Lian Li's existing tooling), so that does restrict what can be done in terms of design. I have no formal training in industrial design (or engineering, for that matter), and undoubtedly a team of seasoned ID guys and engineers could come up with something better (and having an actual budget for tooling wouldn't hurt). But enough people consider the case attractive that I think I can say the result is a cut above what you might expect from your average "geek."

Olaf van der Spek wrote:
I'd *love* to see (m)ATX cases with such a small (or even smaller) footprint.
An mATX case with a smaller *footprint* is a tall order (literally); if you want to keep the footprint the same, the height would have to increase. The area of an mATX board is about twice that of mini-ITX, and the M1 is already nearly as small as it could be with mini-ITX, given the requirement for long GPU support.

On the subject of a low-noise optimized mATX case, though, I have some thoughts:

CPU and GPU cooling - between the two, there's a certain minimum case width that's practically necessary. The M1 is 160mm wide, but the absolute maximum CPU cooler height is only 135mm - and that's with every possibility for width reduction already incorporated (e.g., minimized distance between the back of the motherboard and side panel). Likewise, big (wide) heatsinks on GPUs are often too big for the width of the M1 (the Accelero S1 is about an inch too wide). Assuming we consider 160mm+ CPU coolers and larger GPU coolers a requirement for low noise, we need to add a minimum of 30mm to the width, bringing it to 190mm. This has the side benefit of allowing a rear 120mm fan (vs. the 92mm in the M1).

The PSU is the other big issue (pun intended). SFX is out of consideration for low noise, at least for the time being. Silverstone's upcoming 500W SFX-L (which I might add came about because we approached High Power with the idea) might change things with its 120x15mm fan, but then again it might not. An ATX PSU is the safe bet, for now. But it means the case needs to be that much larger to accomodate it.

Realistically, the SG09 layout is about as small as you can go for an mATX + tall cooler + ATX PSU, but it's already 80% larger than the M1. Plus, the air vents on every side that's needed to make the layout perform thermally doesn't lend itself to low noise (or attractive looks). As it turns out, the optimal layout for low noise (straight-through airflow) tends to look pretty much like a typical tower case. That's not to say there isn't any space-savings possible by e.g. leaving off 5.25" bay support, but it's not going to have the kind of gains you can achieve with the more novel layouts of the SG09 or M1.


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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:06 am 
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Hi and welcome to the forum, it's great to have your input.

NCASEdesign wrote:
I take a bit of exception here; aesthetic design is very important to me, and was a significant consideration in the design of the M1. It might not be to your taste, and that's fine. My goals for the design were for an understated, minimalist aesthetic, but that retained a sense of identity.


No offence intended, I've described the M1 as a beautiful case elsewhere and considered purchasing one (only cost to the UK stopped me). There are different design tastes and styles, and it is a functional case. My design-bar is set high: save for a couple of Apple products no computer case I've ever seen has made me desire it.

Quote:
Again, the materials and processes I had to work with were pretty limited (aluminum sheet and Lian Li's existing tooling), so that does restrict what can be done in terms of design.
Yes indeed.

Quote:
But enough people consider the case attractive that I think I can say the result is a cut above what you might expect from your average "geek."
There you and I will have to disagree, but I suspect we have different definitions of "geek".

Your thoughts are an interesting and informative read. I get the impression around here (and I may be wrong) that many are content with a GTX 750Ti's performance, which affects the size and dissipation needed for the GPU. I'll let others more knowledgeable than me engage with what you've written - looking forward to the discussion :)


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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:48 am 
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Thanks for your input.

NCASEdesign wrote:
the absolute maximum CPU cooler height is only 135mm

I agree that this is enough. Allowing for taller coolers adds so much to the overall dimensions that a completely different arrangement of parts would be required. 135mm still gives you lots of room for a top down cooler and the advantages of a tower cooler are lessened in this case anyway as airflow does not go front to back and the top and back are freely ventilated instead.

Here's something that could perhaps be attached onto the 92mm fan mount and then attached with heatpipes to the CPU:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/heatsinks/6920607/
OK, you might want a quieter 92mm fan instead of the supplied one and it is expensive but there's a lot of cooling capacity in heatsinks like this.

NCASEdesign wrote:
big (wide) heatsinks on GPUs are often too big for the width of the M1 (the Accelero S1 is about an inch too wide).

The Accelero heatsinks can be bent to fit:
viewtopic.php?t=46721
This would be worth considering in the M1.

NCASEdesign wrote:
SFX is out of consideration for low noise, at least for the time being.

I think an SFX PSU could be modified with the fan removed and the end where the cables exit being opened out such that airflow from the front lower fan on the M1 could be ducted up to the PSU. Then you would have a semi-fanless PSU built in and it would be safe for at least a few hundred Watts with only a tiny amount of air flow.

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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:42 am 
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NCASEdesign wrote:
An mATX case with a smaller *footprint* is a tall order (literally); if you want to keep the footprint the same, the height would have to increase. The area of an mATX board is about twice that of mini-ITX, and the M1 is already nearly as small as it could be with mini-ITX, given the requirement for long GPU support.

A model without support for long GPUs or big CPU HSFs could be considered, that should allow less depth and perhaps even less width if the PSU is rotated.
With support for big CPU HSFs and long GPUs a footprint of 199mm x 349 should still be doable which is significantly smaller than most mATX cases.


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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:27 am 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
a footprint of 199mm x 349 should still be doable

It looks like the footprint of the Antec NSK-3480 mATX minitower.

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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:20 pm 
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Too bad the 3480 can't be bought without PSU, but yeah, it comes close. Only supports 2x 92mm fans in front though, without the bays I think 2x 140mm would be possible.


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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:43 pm 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
Too bad the 3480 can't be bought without PSU, but yeah, it comes close. Only supports 2x 92mm fans in front though, without the bays I think 2x 140mm would be possible.

As well written by the NCASE designer, you can't squeeze too much a mATX high performance setup (performances include cooling prowess and quietness).

Actually the very same 3480 is a bit too small (to be a perfect all arounder), it seriously needs 2-4cm more depth, 2-4cm more height, and 2-4cm more width: as a matter of fact it cannot accomodate neither the tallest/widest (quietest) air heatsinks, nor the quietest ATX PSUs (when you fill the upper drive cage), and not even the largest GPU coolers (like the Accelero Extreme IV or Prolimatech Mk.26 fanned).
But it's a good enclosure for serious modders, getting rid of the 3.5" cage and opening cut outs for cable management (check out Druneau's workout in the Gallery), while the easiest job is to fanswap the otherwise noisy Delta/Seasonic PSU. Eventually, looking at the price of enclosures like the Bitfenix Phenom, it isn't even that expensive: too bad that Antec decided to not update it (in a proper way: there have some newer and cheaper derivatives which worsened the original design).
Sorry for the off topic.

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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:30 pm 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
Too bad the 3480 can't be bought without PSU
Yes, it'd be good to get it on its own.

quest_for_silence wrote:
Actually the very same 3480 is a bit too small (to be a perfect all arounder), it seriously needs 2-4cm more depth, 2-4cm more height, and 2-4cm more width
So the Silverstone TJ08-E and Lian Li PC-V354 are more ideal? Though the TJ08 is only 10mm wider (bit hard to find wider cases without the other dimensions being much larger).


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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:37 pm 
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UK_Peter wrote:
So the Silverstone TJ08-E and Lian Li PC-V354 are more ideal? Though the TJ08 is only 10mm wider (bit hard to find wider cases without the other dimensions being much larger).

Both have their own drawbacks: IMO the Lian Li is far from being ideal for a quiet PC, the slightly deeper PC-A04 is IMHO a bit more interesting.
The Silverstone may offer greater flexibility, but its major strenght, the cooling prowess, it is also its Achilles' heel (from a noise perspective): the large AirPenetrator intake should be drived very low to be really quiet, and personally I was never able to do that, you might ask to Abula, IIRC, if and how it's possible to tame it. Even the CPU heatsink, which interferes with the upper PSU chamber in the NSK3480, in the TJ08-E interferes with the front cages.

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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:21 am 
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UK_Peter wrote:
So the Silverstone TJ08-E and Lian Li PC-V354 are more ideal? Though the TJ08 is only 10mm wider (bit hard to find wider cases without the other dimensions being much larger).

The TJ08-E's width is 195mm, the 3840 is 200mm...

quest_for_silence wrote:
Both have their own drawbacks: IMO the Lian Li is far from being ideal for a quiet PC, the slightly deeper PC-A04 is IMHO a bit more interesting.
The Silverstone may offer greater flexibility, but its major strenght, the cooling prowess, it is also its Achilles' heel (from a noise perspective): the large AirPenetrator intake should be drived very low to be really quiet, and personally I was never able to do that, you might ask to Abula, IIRC, if and how it's possible to tame it. Even the CPU heatsink, which interferes with the upper PSU chamber in the NSK3480, in the TJ08-E interferes with the front cages.

Don't use the HDD cage. ;)
In what way does the 3840 PSU chamber interfere with the CPU HSF?
And why can't you fit the biggest GPU HSFs?


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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:29 am 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
The TJ08-E's width is 195mm, the 3840 is 200mm...
The figures on their website say otherwise: http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=303.


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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:20 am 
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Oops, my bad, I looked at the old TJ08: http://www.silverstonetek.com/product_l ... model=tj08


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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:36 am 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
In what way does the 3840 PSU chamber interfere with the CPU HSF?

There's about a few mm spare between the mobo and the chamber, so that the widest coolers (the ones which use 140mm fans natively, in my experience Thermalright Archon SB-E X2 and Noctua NH-C14) should not overhang the mobo itsfelf, otherwise they will touch against the chamber (more often with the fans frame or the mounting clips).

To be fair it depends mostly of actual socket placement: on mATX boards it's more evident with less centered sockets, so it was definitively an issue with the older LGA775/AM3/1366 platforms, while it's not an issue with the LGA2011 one (the various LGA105X/FMX are somehow in between, but with much more clearing chances than previous generations), while on mITX ones it's often an issue due to the smaller board size.


Olaf van der Spek wrote:
And why can't you fit the biggest GPU HSFs?

Because you should get rid of the lower drive tray with those contemporary 4 (or 5) slots setups.

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 Post subject: Re: NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:29 am 
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How would this work with 2x 120mm fans at the bottom blowing up and blocking the side vents to it only exhausts out top? Maybe leave a side vent open with a duct to a cpu fan to pull in cold air.

I'm planning a m-atx build over the next month without a gfx card and I really like this case, it's small enough yet still room for 2x hdd and a ssd (or 2x ssd).

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