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 Post subject: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:40 pm 
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http://www.silentpcreview.com/Scythe_Kotetsu/


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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 8:31 am 
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Wow.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 1:00 pm 
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Is there any estimation as to what heat output these results these would scale up to? I realize that most who are into silent computing probably don't overclock heavily, but it would seem at some point the cooling efficiency between heat sinks could change. It is still amazing that such a relatively small cooler performs so well at low rpm speeds, with fin spacing on the narrow side of things.


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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 1:08 pm 
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Fantastic! Who's selling them in the US?

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 2:36 pm 
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I am really surprised by your findings, Lawrence.

I bought the Kotetsu late in february and now lies in my spares room along with other dismissed coolers.
I tested it then onto an Intel Core i5 2320, so not the most demanding CPU, but IIRC it managed to best (and not by far) just some of my heatsinks (the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus, the Thermalright True 120M and the venerable HR-01), while other coolers did better, although not by far again (the Noctua NH-C14, and the Prolimatech Armageddon, which are two double fans setup).

Anyway, just for pleasure I will test it again on a Core i7 2600K against the Thermalright Archon SB-E X2, and I'm very curious to see what will happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:52 pm 
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And a new legend is born... pretty good cooler for the price and performance, specially since its a quiet cooler.... i smell this will become the most recommended cooler among the SPCR forums. The only thing that i do wished is that scythe would allow their PWM fans to drop lower, like it used to on the Scythe KamaFlex2.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 9:41 am 
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Would be nice if Scythe actually sold their products in the USA...


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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 12:28 pm 
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tsmvengy wrote:
Would be nice if Scythe actually sold their products in the USA...


You can. Generally, at Amazon, NCIX, and Superbiiz. Just not this product, yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 3:14 am 
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Oh, my... 500 g, unassuming design yet straight to the top? Even comes with a quality stock fan for $35? I think I'm in love.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:41 pm 
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Anybody know a source for the Glide Stream fans in the US for a reasonable price?

● 800 rpm: SY1225HB12L
● 1.000 rpm: SY1225HB12LM
● 1.200 rpm: SY1225HB12M

any one of those would be better than the old yate loon 1350 RPM I'm still using.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:28 pm 
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It might be worth considering the Scythe Grand Flex models as an alternative, such as the SM1225GF12L which is a 3 pin 1200 RPM fan. These fans have an FDB bearing rather than the sleeve bearing of the Glide Stream range. They also seem to be somewhat more readily available in North America. As you may already know SPCR has tested a couple of these fans, the 1600 rpm and PWM 600 to 2400 rpm models.


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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:37 pm 
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eom

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:53 am 
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I like it! No flash, but a lot of performance! The heatpipes are staggered and distribute the heat from the center across the fins - engineering where it counts.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 12:49 am 
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NeilBlanchard wrote:
engineering where it counts.
At the base (queue drum-cymbals) :P - seemingly the most important thing, as it is the bottleneck. Looking at direct-touch coolers even 3 heat-pipes are sufficient for excellent cooling.


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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 8:51 am 
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I'm confused. In this tests, Kotetsu beats Mugen 4. How?! ... or maybe is just in this review.


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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:39 pm 
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blu3z wrote:
I'm confused. In this tests, Kotetsu beats Mugen 4. How?! ... or maybe is just in this review.

Because, as has been pointed out numerous times, size isn't everything.

For example, the Ashura sported 100+ g AND a 140 mm fan over the Mugen 4, yet failed to beat or even match its performance. The reason was simply the sloppier pressure exerted by the base of the Ashura, resulting in less optimal heat transfer than the Mugen 4. The Mugen 4 again sports 100+ g of heatsink over the Kotetsu, yet apparently is not the better performer of the two - but ONLY if we look at efficiency. With the reference fan, both coolers are identical in their performance, the Kotetsu only drawing out its victory by a single, negligible degree at 9 V. The Kotetsu is HARDLY a featherweight at nearly 500 g, so being able to effectively dissipate enough heat to cool the test platform is not a miracle and not a godlike feat; this heatsink is no lightweight, uses proven fin and heatpipe layout design, has excellent mounting and base judging by the TIM print and performs consistently throughout the test.

The margin of victory is hardly big enough to call into question its validity and SPCR is known for sound methods and rigour. I certainly did a double-take at the article after the results page, but nothing seems out of the ordinary - the Kotetsu is just a well-executed design, not an exception but a confirmation of the rule that efficiency trumps brute force.

I recall the days of yore when heatpipe coolers started beating all manner of snot out of big lumps of pure copper... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 3:58 am 
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The interface between the CPU and the base of the heatsink is the key thing that determines the performance of the heatsink. If the heat cannot be transferred to the heatsink, then it doesn't matter how big the heatsink is.

The surface of the base and the mounting mechanism are the first part of the path for the heat to be transferred eventually to the fins.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 1:18 pm 
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Are these scratches normal, on the base of the cooler? Is the very first look at the base of the cooler (without touching it, I just removed the protection)
http://postimg.org/image/vdwxa2lil/


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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 9:34 am 
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blu3z wrote:
Are these scratches normal, on the base of the cooler?


nope.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 10:49 am 
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blu3z wrote:
Are these scratches normal, on the base of the cooler? Is the very first look at the base of the cooler (without touching it, I just removed the protection)
http://postimg.org/image/vdwxa2lil/

A proper finish on a base looks uniform (machines use and produce patterns). Depending on how rough the finish is, the surface may be shiny (polished, super smooth + mirror effect), have a dull sheen (fine sanding with a little polish, faint marks if any visible, poor mirror) or have visible grooves (rough machining, low grade finish). Ugly, random scratches like that have no business being on the bottom of a cooler.

I don't know if it's the picture or not, but the bottom-left corner there looks like it got banged against something, like the cooler was dropped or swung. It looks dented or chipped.

This is a polished mirror finish: http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/images/nofan-cr95c/07.jpg
This is a fine finish, coated: http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/images/noctua-nh-u14s/08.jpg
This is a fine finish, bare metal: http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/images/silverstone-td03/08.jpg
This is a rough but working finish: http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/ima ... r02/06.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 3:28 am 
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After a second try to mount it, finally it works (I forgot first time to put the washers. How stupid I am?!) I don't feel very happy with this cooler-maybe because of those scratches (and the operation of mounting the fan was very odd, takes me a lot of time. My case is cooletk timaios.) I can change it if I want (I have 30 days). This are my temps (in my room is cold, I think under 20) after 23 min. of prime test. I think that I damaged the temperature sensor while I mount the cooler. If I run only music player I got 15°C on Core#1 (HWmonitor). In Wprime Worker 1 mean first core? Cause it's lazy compared with 2,3,4 (It's moving the last on the next Test in prime, after few seconds). How can I test the CPU to work at the maximum turbo (I have I5 3570K and I never see it goes to 3.8, and I am curious if I can test it). Thanks and sorry for my bad english! :roll:
http://postimg.org/image/5bykx2qaz/
http://postimg.org/image/4jxa7xczx/


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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 5:53 am 
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Is it possible to mount the heatsink so that the fan moves the air towards the top of the case rather than towards the rear of the case as displayed in the review?


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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 7:12 am 
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sn1009 wrote:
Is it possible to mount the heatsink so that the fan moves the air towards the top of the case rather than towards the rear of the case as displayed in the review?

Socket 1150 at least should have symmetrical mounting holes, so I don't see why not, as long as there is room to have the mounting bars and the heatpipes in that orientation.

blu3z wrote:
- CPU frequency not reaching 3800 MHz.

I've never seen my 3570K reach full 3800 MHz, it maxes out at 3600 MHz. I've seen others with 3700 MHz, so I assume it's just my sample or my system that makes the CPU cap itself lower than the absolute maximum allowed.

You can check your CPU with the Intel tool, http://downloadmirror.intel.com/19792/eng/IPDT_Installer_2.8.0.0-1_x86_2.10.0.0.MP-1_x64.exe, it's a decent tester. Checking your Hz while running it may prove challenging as it reserves the processor fully during the stress test.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 7:40 am 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
It looks dented or chipped.


It would be typical of very used coolers (some signs are often consequence of a very high pressure mounting system), not of a brand new one.


Das_Saunamies wrote:
blu3z wrote:
- CPU frequency not reaching 3800 MHz.

I've never seen my 3570K reach full 3800 MHz, it maxes out at 3600 MHz. I've seen others with 3700 MHz, so I assume it's just my sample or my system that makes the CPU cap itself lower than the absolute maximum allowed.

You can check your CPU with the Intel tool, http://downloadmirror.intel.com/19792/eng/IPDT_Installer_2.8.0.0-1_x86_2.10.0.0.MP-1_x64.exe, it's a decent tester. Checking your Hz while running it may prove challenging as it reserves the processor fully during the stress test.


I don't understand: what's the question?

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:32 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
I don't understand: what's the question?

I paraphrased what he said, essentially he was wondering if his CPU was faulty or not performing to its full potential since it's not reporting the 3,8 GHz overclock Intel advertises for it. I have the same CPU and mine never reaches 'the promised land' @stock.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:51 am 
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FYI - mine will hit 3.8GHz when running 2 cores in WoW.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:26 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
FYI - mine will hit 3.8GHz when running 2 cores in WoW.

Different CPU in question tho'.

Even with just a single core loaded by ORTHOS etc., 3.6 is my fate.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 3:13 pm 
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<forehead smack>

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:39 pm 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:
I don't understand: what's the question?

I paraphrased what he said, essentially he was wondering if his CPU was faulty or not performing to its full potential since it's not reporting the 3,8 GHz overclock Intel advertises for it. I have the same CPU and mine never reaches 'the promised land' @stock.


So, even if you set affinity of Prime95 or Intel Burn Test to a single core, and run one single thread of it, that single core won't max out? Even if you overclock the CPU forcing a 38 multiplier for all cores? And that's a common issue with Ivy Bridge? Weird... personally I never encounterd a similar issue with my 2500K/2600K, but I think it's a tad disappointing...

...by the way, it's sunday, I have to swap the SSD on the 2600K, so today I will retest my Kotetsu (the base is fine) against a bunch of coolers (nothing scientific, just a quick'n'dirty field trial).

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 12:54 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
So, even if you set affinity of Prime95 or Intel Burn Test to a single core, and run one single thread of it, that single core won't max out? Even if you overclock the CPU forcing a 38 multiplier for all cores? And that's a common issue with Ivy Bridge? Weird... personally I never encounterd a similar issue with my 2500K/2600K, but I think it's a tad disappointing...

Yes to the first - the stock Boost will not go all the way to 3.8 GHz, even with ORTHOS forced to run only 1 or 2 cores at 100% - but no to the second. I can get mine to 4 GHz and above, but I don't like overclocking. I only got the K model because it was good bang for the buck, and I was short on buck at the time (as in: had to/wanted to use the IGD/GPU).

This sort of thing doesn't seem too uncommon; I looked into it online when I first noticed it, and you can still find results today. People just won't reach the full 3.8 GHz and some are wondering why. It was disappointing indeed at first, but luckily the CPU is plenty for what I do, so I don't need every last Hz.

Looking forward to those field tests! 8)

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