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 Post subject: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy Ed.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:05 pm 
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http://www.silentpcreview.com/Quiet_Min ... d_Guide_3/


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:48 pm 
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Samsung 850 EVO SSDs are now available. In terms of both pricing and performance it slots in between 840 EVO & 850 PRO. It should be worthy of consideration as an alternative.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:07 pm 
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Lawrence Lee wrote:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Quiet_Mini-ITX_Gaming_Build_Guide_3/

Thank you Lawrence, and happy 2015! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:23 pm 
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Thanks for another quality review!

Quote:
it's a bit cheaper and very slightly louder as a fanless power supply wasn't used.
maybe drop the "very", or replace with "just" or "only", for better readability...?

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:19 pm 
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snoopygum wrote:
Samsung 850 EVO SSDs are now available. In terms of both pricing and performance it slots in between 840 EVO & 850 PRO. It should be worthy of consideration as an alternative.

It's a nice SSD. But, I like to see an SSD on the market for 3 months w/o problems before recommending them.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 4:26 am 
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Quote:
the wobbly bottom fills us with trepidation

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:01 am 
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Quote:
While even a 500W model would suffice for this build, 650W units currently offer the best bang for your buck.

300W would suffice as well wouldn't it?
The 360W Seasonic is quite a bit less expensive.

In what way would a 650W unit offer better bang for buck?


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:08 am 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
300W would suffice as well wouldn't it? The 360W Seasonic is quite a bit less expensive.

In what way would a 650W unit offer better bang for buck?

The 360 fan would ramp up more at full load when power draw is ~240W. The 650 watters tend to keep their fans running slower at the same load & aren't much more $$.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:30 am 
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Perhaps, but that sounds more like anti-bang. :p
I think this should be mentioned.

240W / 360W = 67%. Is the noise of the 360G really an issue at 67% PSU load?

In the Netherlands the 360G costs 50 euro, the 650G costs 97 euro, 94% more expensive, not what I'd call "not much more $$."

Update:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1297-page3.html
Noise is an issue at 250W output, but does it really take a 650W unit for noise to not be an issue here?


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:38 am 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
240W / 360W = 67%. Is the noise of the 360G really an issue at 67% PSU load?

Definitely yes, 25-30dB.


Olaf van der Spek wrote:
but does it really take a 650W unit for noise to not be an issue here?

A BeQuiet! Straight Power E10 400W (BN230) should be 62 euros at 4AllShop, and it offers a similar warranty and a much better noise profile, but along with an inferior build quality (mainly caps quality is rather inferior).

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:53 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
but along with an inferior build quality (mainly caps quality is rather inferior).

Got a reference for that?


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:33 am 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:
but along with an inferior build quality (mainly caps quality is rather inferior).

Got a reference for that?

A reference about chinese Teapo capacitors? Google it, or read about those on badcaps, hardocp, jonnyguru and similar sources.

Broadly speaking, there are several E10 reviews on the web: in dutch there's the round-up from Hardware.info and a more specific review from tweakers.net, in english there are reliable ones from TechPowerUp! (800W) and JonnyGuru.com (800W), for instance, while in german you may check the very good review from ComputerBase.de (500W); obviously there are some other else around the web (check either the TPU Reviews DB or the BeQuiet! product pages).
Noise-wise, besides, there are lots of positive reviews from SPCR users on this forum about the Straight Power E9 and E10, and eventually the SPCR test of the Straight Power E10 600W in the recent R4 Gaming Build.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:30 pm 
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Great article Lawrence! Been waiting for an SPCR POV build with the Prodigy/Phenom cases for a long time, and you got right to the most important aspects of it :D
I'm wondering if an OC'd gaming system would change much of the thermail/noise performance.

I hope MikeC shares his experience with AIO water systems soon, looks like these BitFenix cases are made just for those! :D

Happy New Year SPCR!


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:02 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Olaf van der Spek wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:
but along with an inferior build quality (mainly caps quality is rather inferior).

Got a reference for that?

A reference about chinese Teapo capacitors? Google it, or read about those on badcaps, hardocp, jonnyguru and similar sources.

Come on, can't do better then that?
Jonnyguru for example says: " I found nothing to complain about inside the unit except for the overpopulation of second tier Teapo capacitors. Half a point comes off for that, and I'm stopping right there. 9.5."
So he finds build quality excellent, not inferior. And nowhere does he say or substantiate the capacitors being being bad. Same for the hardware.info and tweakers (user) reviews.
I'm sure Teapo has (had) bad capacitors but that neither implies all Teapo capacitors families are bad nor (all) other brands not having bad capacitors.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:20 am 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
I'm sure Teapo has (had) bad capacitors but that neither implies all Teapo capacitors families are bad nor (all) other brands not having bad capacitors.

Maybe you should check which meaning you give to the adjective "inferior", Olaf: with reference to the quoted Seasonic, the BeQuiet build quality is inferior, and as I stated it's mainly due to the capacitors choice, which is directly related to the PSU long term reliability, period.
Incidentally Jeremy (Oklahoma Wolf) said about the same.

About Teapo caps, the matter is wide and questionable, that's why I suggested you googling about or reading on specialized forums: I've not enough spare time to, and above all I'm not able to write down a brief summary of the capacitors' universe.
Personally when I see all Panasonic, Sanyo, Rubycon and other flawless brands e-caps inside a PSU, I'm much more confident about the unit's quality, et pour cause.

Eventually I didn't remarked the inferior build quality as a stain on the BeQuiet prospect/reputation: I just gave you in short all the pros & cons I was aware of about that unit, comparatively (so that you could have deepened those aspects, if you were really interested into).

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:21 am 
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Thanks a lot for your reviews! Like a breeze of fresh air for me :D
I have two quetsions
1. Where can I read more on asus fan xpert bug on this specific MB? I tend to have the same board on my pc - was chosen for nice build quality and three 4pin pwm fan headers as well as asus nice fan pwm-or-dc control abilities...
2. I noticed Gpu VRM temperatures mentioned(thank you very much for this data), and not sure if it is safe having them over 80-85 degrees during heavy loads? Your review even mentions 114 degrees, which away too high for a safe long term operation and might possibly affect VRM lifespan?


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:32 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Maybe you should check which meaning you give to the adjective "inferior", Olaf:

Which meaning did you intend to give? None of the 9 seems appropriate.
Quote:
with reference to the quoted Seasonic, the BeQuiet build quality is inferior, and as I stated it's mainly due to the capacitors choice, which is directly related to the PSU long term reliability, period.
Incidentally Jeremy (Oklahoma Wolf) said about the same.

Mainly about capacitors or only?
Quote:
About Teapo caps, the matter is wide and questionable, that's why I suggested you googling about or reading on specialized forums: I've not enough spare time to, and above all I'm not able to write down a brief summary of the capacitors' universe.
Personally when I see all Panasonic, Sanyo, Rubycon and other flawless brands e-caps inside a PSU, I'm much more confident about the unit's quality, et pour cause.

Eventually I didn't remarked the inferior build quality as a stain on the BeQuiet prospect/reputation: I just gave you in short all the pros & cons I was aware of about that unit, comparatively (so that you could have deepened those aspects, if you were really interested into).

Wouldn't there be at least one solid reference if the matter was indeed true?
AFAIK a brand doesn't necessarily imply quality.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:07 am 
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Sader wrote:
Thanks a lot for your reviews! Like a breeze of fresh air for me :D
I have two quetsions
1. Where can I read more on asus fan xpert bug on this specific MB? I tend to have the same board on my pc - was chosen for nice build quality and three 4pin pwm fan headers as well as asus nice fan pwm-or-dc control abilities...
2. I noticed Gpu VRM temperatures mentioned(thank you very much for this data), and not sure if it is safe having them over 80-85 degrees during heavy loads? Your review even mentions 114 degrees, which away too high for a safe long term operation and might possibly affect VRM lifespan?

1. From the nCase Gaming Build guide, page 6:
Quote:
The ASUS Fan Xpert 3 can control all the fans and monitor temperatures but the version that ships with our ASUS Z97I-PLUS has a previously unknown fault. After about five minutes on the full load test, all the connected fans inexplicably ramp up. In this state, according to Fan Xpert, all the fans should be running at their designated reduced speeds, but in actuality, they kick up to full speed. While no such option is available in the utility or in the UEFI BIOS, there seems to be built-in fail-safe that kicks in when the temperatures reached a certain point. Closing Fan Xpert before loading the system prevented this from happening. This is very odd as we did not encounter this type of behavior with the Z97-PRO or with the older versions of the ASUS software.

2. For sure, lower temp is better, but 100C isn't that unusual for VRMs. FETs used in VRM circuits have pretty high max operating temps. It's safe to say that with a gaming load, it'd be really hard to get the same temps as with Furmark. Maybe if it's high summer and you're in 35C weather gaming with sweat slippery hands on the controls... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:38 am 
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Thanks for a quick reply, Mike
Have not yet experienced such bug, but sure will take note and keep watching for my fan speeds on z97i plus mb.

As for VRM Im sure this is Msi Asus Palit design fault or lets say imperfection fot gtx 970. Only gigabyte g1 which has its VRM touched by same base plate that makes contact with gpu chip dominates in the low temperatures...while all the rest have tiny dedicated heatsink trying to cool these down.

Ive had some time testing my Strix gtx970 in Silverstone Raven Mini rvz01b case, just before returning the card(coil whine), and the maximum Ive seen on VRM was 96 during long gaming sessions. Fans were set to Auto. Note that due to card position its back receives almost no ventilation, at least not like those spacious cases like define r5 or simillar.

P.s. any idea when to expect beQuiet silent base 800 review?

Thank you very much for your work! Your site is one of my favourite places for a good indepth reviews for a hardware! I noticed that spometime I need to read your articles for a second time to get through on all the details :D


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:55 am 
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Sader wrote:
P.s. any idea when to expect beQuiet silent base 800 review?

Thank you very much for your work! Your site is one of my favourite places for a good indepth reviews for a hardware! I noticed that sometimes I need to read your articles for a second time to get through on all the details :D

We haven't received a beQuiet case sample yet, so...

I'm glad to hear about you re-reading. 8) It usually takes us a huge amount of time & effort to do most of these articles, so there is a lot of information & if you want to get the most out of them, you probably do have to look twice, at least at some details. I do, too, when studying other data/info-dense sites... or sometimes rereading our own earlier articles for details I've forgotten.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:02 pm 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
Which meaning did you intend to give? None of the 9 seems appropriate.

Sorry, but that is not my worry.


Olaf van der Spek wrote:
Wouldn't there be at least one solid reference if the matter was indeed true?
AFAIK a brand doesn't necessarily imply quality.

As I already said, here I can't/won't help you furtherly: google it, so that you'll better understand the terms of the matter.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:18 pm 
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How tall is the case with the wobbly bits removed?


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:02 pm 
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smilingcrow wrote:
How tall is the case with the wobbly bits removed?

Don't think we actually measured, but since the external height is spec'd at 404mm (16"), and the internal at 310mm (12.25"), the upper and lower plastic bits add at least 3" in total height. Probably ~12.5" w/o wobbly bits.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:23 am 
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MikeC wrote:
smilingcrow wrote:
How tall is the case with the wobbly bits removed?

Don't think we actually measured, but since the external height is spec'd at 404mm (16"), and the internal at 310mm (12.25"), the upper and lower plastic bits add at least 3" in total height. Probably ~12.5" w/o wobbly bits.

Thanks Mike. How did it look with the wobbly bits removed in terms of finish rather than the aesthetics of the shape?
I suppose it then lacked feet and it has an air intake on the bottom so do you think it's practical to house this on a carpet in its 'naked' state?


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:25 am 
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smilingcrow wrote:
Thanks Mike. How did it look with the wobbly bits removed in terms of finish rather than the aesthetics of the shape?
I suppose it then lacked feet and it has an air intake on the bottom so do you think it's practical to house this on a carpet in its 'naked' state?

from the article: As there are holes on the case floor for standard case feet, we borrowed some from the Fractal Design Define R4.

As the "front panel" w/ power & reset etc are on the lower front of the right side, the case is unsuitable for floor placement. It needs to be on the desk, table, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:32 pm 
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MikeC wrote:
smilingcrow wrote:
Thanks Mike. How did it look with the wobbly bits removed in terms of finish rather than the aesthetics of the shape?
I suppose it then lacked feet and it has an air intake on the bottom so do you think it's practical to house this on a carpet in its 'naked' state?

from the article: As there are holes on the case floor for standard case feet, we borrowed some from the Fractal Design Define R4.

As the "front panel" w/ power & reset etc are on the lower front of the right side, the case is unsuitable for floor placement. It needs to be on the desk, table, etc.

Thanks again Mike. I think I'll go with a Phenom as it's for a 100W system so its ventilation/cooling issue doesn't matter.
Just have to decide between the mITX or mATX versions. The ITX version appeals more for a system without a dGPU as I like the horizontal mobo.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:43 pm 
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smilingcrow wrote:
The ITX version appeals more for a system without a dGPU as I like the horizontal mobo.

Get the mATX instead, smilingcrow: the lack of ventilation is appalling on the mITX, while you'd have a 20cm intake on the floor of the mATX, besides I see no advantage having an horizontal mobo, do you?

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:15 pm 
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smilingcrow wrote:
Thanks again Mike. I think I'll go with a Phenom as it's for a 100W system so its ventilation/cooling issue doesn't matter.

For a sub-100W system, why bother with such cases? Footprint is way too big, imo, unless you can justify it for a discrete VGA card. I'd go with something way smaller -- maybe an Antec ISK300 or Antec ISK110 or similar. Put it on its side and it'll fit even atop a tiny desktop.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:56 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
smilingcrow wrote:
The ITX version appeals more for a system without a dGPU as I like the horizontal mobo.

Get the mATX instead, smilingcrow: the lack of ventilation is appalling on the mITX, while you'd have a 20cm intake on the floor of the mATX, besides I see no advantage having an horizontal mobo, do you?

In a system that will rarely draw a 100W and usually be under 50W I don't think the lack of ventilation is an issue.
It does well enough with a 133W load - http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1372-page6.html

I'll look into the mATX version but I'm allergic to large fans but maybe there's a remedy for that.
As for the horizontal layout, it just appeals not to stress the system with the weight of a large cooler hanging off it. Not a big deal though.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:20 pm 
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MikeC wrote:
smilingcrow wrote:
Thanks again Mike. I think I'll go with a Phenom as it's for a 100W system so its ventilation/cooling issue doesn't matter.

For a sub-100W system, why bother with such cases? Footprint is way too big, imo, unless you can justify it for a discrete VGA card. I'd go with something way smaller -- maybe an Antec ISK300 or Antec ISK110 or similar. Put it on its side and it'll fit even atop a tiny desktop.

I just don't trust those small cases which only support 80mm fans and lower profile heatsinks.
If I go smaller I'll look at the Cooler Master 1x0 series.


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