It is currently Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:56 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 5275
Location: ITALY
smilingcrow wrote:
I'll look into the mATX version but I'm allergic to large fans but maybe there's a remedy for that.

You can give a look to the Silverstone AP182, if the mounting holes fit, as it looks promising (you may ask to Abula info about, I guess): or just rely upon a proven, quiet 140mm one, if possible.

_________________
Regards,
Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:40 am
Posts: 18
MikeC wrote:
smilingcrow wrote:
Thanks again Mike. I think I'll go with a Phenom as it's for a 100W system so its ventilation/cooling issue doesn't matter.

For a sub-100W system, why bother with such cases? Footprint is way too big, imo, unless you can justify it for a discrete VGA card. I'd go with something way smaller -- maybe an Antec ISK300 or Antec ISK110 or similar. Put it on its side and it'll fit even atop a tiny desktop.


Also looked at these cases. Personally I like ISK110 appearance, as well as VESA mount option, however there are several difficulties for me:
- get proper silent, but performing cooler for my mITX FM2+ & A10-5800K in this case. Due to height limitation its a tough choice. My personal favorite Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev B will not fit :( as well as old CM GeminIIS which I have lying around. Smaller cooler means small, high speed noisy fan... :cry:
- get proper PSU like PICOPSU 150XT + 150W external AC-DC adapter - again need to mod the case to support proper PSU outlet. As well as PSU itself will not have much air due to RAM blocking it...

People tend to choose Intel for SFF builds...why cant I have a perfect smallest, yet spacious case for my AMD APU ? :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:02 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 12281
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
iirc, I actually ran a system in the Antec ISK300 for a while, something modest with onboard graphics & the internal 65W AC/DC adapter. Not sure if that models is still available, I see the links are for the one with a 150W PSU which isn't quiet under load. Anyway, I just used a couple of quiet 80mm fans for intake only, with the biggest stock Intel heatsink at the time. Kept its fan going as slow as possible. It was a decently quiet system sitting on its side.

Today I would consider a Silverstone ML05 with one of their SFX PSUs, only 2.5" SSD/HDDs, and a Big Shuriken 2 rev. B. Make a simple cradle from wood & paint it black to put the case on its side (PSU side) for desktop use. Or flat/horizontal under/behind your monitor if you have an extended arm type stand (which I do). I have one of these cases/systems for an audio only PC. Not silent but quiet enough. Rosewill RS-MI-01 is also an option tho its PSU probably isn't efficient & may need fan modding. They are both cheap cases, so easy to justify buying & experimenting.

_________________
Mike Chin, SPCR Editor/Publisher
Support SPCR by buying your gear through this link: Amazon


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:40 am
Posts: 18
MikeC wrote:
iirc, I actually ran a system in the Antec ISK300 for a while, something modest with onboard graphics & the internal 65W AC/DC adapter. Not sure if that models is still available, I see the links are for the one with a 150W PSU which isn't quiet under load. Anyway, I just used a couple of quiet 80mm fans for intake only, with the biggest stock Intel heatsink at the time. Kept its fan going as slow as possible. It was a decently quiet system sitting on its side.

Today I would consider a Silverstone ML05 with one of their SFX PSUs, only 2.5" SSD/HDDs, and a Big Shuriken 2 rev. B. Make a simple cradle from wood & paint it black to put the case on its side (PSU side) for desktop use. Or flat/horizontal under/behind your monitor if you have an extended arm type stand (which I do). I have one of these cases/systems for an audio only PC. Not silent but quiet enough. Rosewill RS-MI-01 is also an option tho its PSU probably isn't efficient & may need fan modding. They are both cheap cases, so easy to justify buying & experimenting.


thanks for an advise, but I already have RVZ01B from Silverstone. Imho SFX PSUs are far from satisfying my personal needs on silent computing:
- 450W Gold rated PSU from Silverstone has much audible idle fan noise(not speaking of load fan noise) - own one myself. Waiting for fan replacement for warranty void process to begin :)
- 600W Silverstone PSU has quieter fan, albeit possible coil whine + fan clicking sounds on low rpms + unfair "semi-fanless" operation - from Hardforum discussions

I tested following setup:
- Asus Z97I Plus + 4690K + Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev B. + Thermalright TY140 @ 600 rpm
- Asus Strix 970 + 2*Noiseblocker XL-1 @ 500 rpm
- WD Green 1Tb + 250 Gb SSD
- Silverstone 450W Gold PSU

after silencing everything else including GPU & CPU I can only hear PSU fan noise..... :evil:
That is why I'm looking towards Define R5 + Seasonic X1050(happen to have already) + perhaps same above mITX components(cant afford full ATX MB now(no sense, unless going 970 SLI) and, possibly, Scythe Kotetsu for CPU)

If you can recommend any smaller case fitting all above and yet, providing silence - will be much appreciated.

Apologize for going offtopic :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 5275
Location: ITALY
MikeC wrote:
Make a simple cradle from wood

Or pick the ML-08 with a pair of good sounding fans (Nexus, AC, Noctua, you know).


Sader wrote:
Imho SFX PSUs are far from satisfying my personal needs on silent computing:
- 450W Gold rated PSU from Silverstone has much audible idle fan noise(not speaking of load fan noise) - own one myself. Waiting for fan replacement for warranty void process to begin :)
- 600W Silverstone PSU has quieter fan, albeit possible coil whine + fan clicking sounds on low rpms + unfair "semi-fanless" operation - from Hardforum discussions

Because those aren't quiet SFX PSUs: the 300W Bronze unit it is, as well as a couple of Chieftec, and for a 100W system (like the smilingcrow one) that 300W is plenty.


Sader wrote:
That is why I'm looking towards Define R5 + Seasonic X1050(happen to have already)

Why the 1050? It's pointless (you don't need more than about 230W while gaming, set aside any OC) for your hardware, and moreover it's a comparatively noisy unit (unless it's the freshly released Snow Silent).

_________________
Regards,
Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:13 pm 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:14 pm
Posts: 149
Location: Jersey, UK
i went with the Corsair Obsidian 250D. IMHO it is a slightly better case.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 5275
Location: ITALY
merlyn wrote:
i went with the Corsair Obsidian 250D. IMHO it is a slightly better case.

Have you had the chance to compare it against the Prodigy?

_________________
Regards,
Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:19 am
Posts: 111
Location: Norway
I'm actually getting close to pulling the trigger on this build. Changes are of course a more modern mobo, a i7-6700K and a GTX 1080. What worries me though is the M.2 SSD placement, as there doesn't seem to be any proper cooling underneath the motherboard, and it might throttle. See https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/artic ... lysis-776/ . Mini-ITX cases aren't exactly known for having good cooling, and stick a GTX 1080 in there with some gaming, and I think it'll be a challenge to keep the M.2 SSD properly cooled. For now I think I'll go with a regular SATA SSD, due to both price and performance concerns.

For the feet, the local electronics stores sell some generic ones I'm hoping to replace the original ones with to avoid wobble. A wobbling PC during an earthquake is not cool ;).

Is there anything else I should be thinking of / consider?

EDIT: Preliminary Build link http://pcpartpicker.com/list/Kz72xY


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 5275
Location: ITALY
flinx wrote:
Is there anything else I should be thinking of / consider?

EDIT: Preliminary Build link http://pcpartpicker.com/list/Kz72xY

Pick a better and quieter PSU, if possible.

_________________
Regards,
Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:49 pm
Posts: 1608
Location: UK
I'm not personally a fan of the Prodigy as for a MiniITX case it is enormous. If you have a bunch of hard disks it might make sense but otherwise the space is not well utilised. I don't think you'll manage to get it that quiet given that the graphics card, the hottest and loudest of the components that you have, will be right up against the side of the case. For a big graphics card I would go for something that allows an extra slot or intake fans blowing straight at it. The Ncase M1 does this rather well but may still be a little tight for cooling really quietly.

_________________
Raijintek Metis: i5-6400, Scythe Ninja 4, Asus Z170i Pro Gaming, 8Gb RAM, GTX 950, Crucial 250Gb M.2, Seasonic X-400


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:19 am
Posts: 111
Location: Norway
quest_for_silence wrote:
flinx wrote:
Is there anything else I should be thinking of / consider?

EDIT: Preliminary Build link http://pcpartpicker.com/list/Kz72xY

Pick a better and quieter PSU, if possible.


It's the one used in the original article, and from what I gather it pretty much contributes no real noise to the system. Have things changed since the article was written? The only way to improve it would be to go fanless from what I gather, and I don't want to do that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:19 am
Posts: 111
Location: Norway
edh wrote:
I'm not personally a fan of the Prodigy as for a MiniITX case it is enormous. If you have a bunch of hard disks it might make sense but otherwise the space is not well utilised. I don't think you'll manage to get it that quiet given that the graphics card, the hottest and loudest of the components that you have, will be right up against the side of the case. For a big graphics card I would go for something that allows an extra slot or intake fans blowing straight at it. The Ncase M1 does this rather well but may still be a little tight for cooling really quietly.


I picked the Prodigy as it gives me a lot more flexibility in choosing the CPU cooler and it doesn't really have issues with video card length. Having more space also makes it easier to cool. Unfortunately the Ncase costs 3 times as much as the Prodigy here - I'm not paying 31k yen for it. It's also a bit too cramped for my tastes, and I can't really see that it offers any advantages over the Prodigy.

BTW, I'll be removing the drive cages of course for better airflow. I might eventually stick an optical drive and/or HDDs in it, but for now I'm more interested in seeing how well it works without it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 5275
Location: ITALY
flinx wrote:
It's the one used in the original article, and from what I gather it pretty much contributes no real noise to the system.

Even if I don't agree with Lawrence Lee's PSU picks very often, you may note he reported an about 14dB min PSU noise, which in case is a clearly audible level.


flinx wrote:
Have things changed since the article was written?

It is now two years. Above all he didn't mention that more probably that not any of the proposed alternatives was noticeably quieter.


flinx wrote:
The only way to improve it would be to go fanless from what I gather, and I don't want to do that.

Check any SPCR chart: most of the quoted PSUs are quieter.

The G-series lineup is usually audible at min, and on load and/or higher temperature its conservative controller ramps up rather quickly. Last but not least it's an average PSU for contemporary standards, with also not working protections (OTP/OPP gave more than an issue). Is therefore a bad unit? Nope.

BTW, I don't have to convince you about anything: you asked if there's anything else to consider, I gave you my advice, pick a better and quieter PSU if possible, now do what you think best.

_________________
Regards,
Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:19 am
Posts: 111
Location: Norway
Thanks, Luca, for offering your opinion :). In the chart you linked, the Seasonic G 550W is actually not listed, so it's hard to compare. I challenge anyone to tell me they can hear 14dB of fan noise in anything except an anechoic chamber though. The GPU/CPU fans look like they'll provide more of a challenge noise wise. That said, I'll do some more research and see if there are other options I can choose that provide better performance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:19 am
Posts: 111
Location: Norway
Any opinion on how the be quiet! 500W CM would perform comparared to the Seasonic?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 5275
Location: ITALY
flinx wrote:
the Seasonic G 550W is actually not listed, so it's hard to compare.

There are numbers: compare 14 against... it also tell you that the G 550 was not thoroughly tested.

_________________
Regards,
Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:53 am 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 7089
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
flinx wrote:
Any opinion on how the be quiet! 500W CM would perform comparared to the Seasonic?

Which series? The Straight Power 10? If so, yeah, it'd be quieter. Very low rpm fan.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: Amazon and Newegg


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:19 am
Posts: 111
Location: Norway
CA_Steve wrote:
flinx wrote:
Any opinion on how the be quiet! 500W CM would perform comparared to the Seasonic?

Which series? The Straight Power 10? If so, yeah, it'd be quieter. Very low rpm fan.


Yeah, the Straight Power 10. Thanks a lot for the link - I'll swap out the Seasonic. :) Updated build link http://pcpartpicker.com/list/9XsckT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy E
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:19 am
Posts: 111
Location: Norway
Here's an update on this. Everything is up and running now. The feet aren't actually very wobbly once you have the components installed, so I'm going to keep them as is. They isolate vibrations decently too. The quality however is low as the review mentioned, and I did manage to crack off a part of them that was connected to the case. Idle noise is completely silent, unless you put your ear next to the case. The Strix GPU fans are set to not run until a certain load is experienced by default.

If you do any gaming, the GPU fans will ramp up and you can hear them, if you don't have any sound in the game. Usually the game noise will drown out the fans. You can configure the fan ramping for the GPU, but they start minimum at 40%, which is audible, so you're still better off adjusting the ramp so that they're turned off at idle temperatures. I’m not sure any other 1080s are better than the Strix at this point, so I think the only way to significantly improve the noise profile is to use water cooling. You can fit up to a 200mm square radiator in front, or a 120x240mm up top if you use a lower profile CPU heatsink and remove the optical drive cage. Though there’s room for a reservoir/pump if you want to do a custom cooling loop and remove the HDD cages, something like the Kraken G10 plus X41 in front is probably a better solution.

For CPU-only stress testing in Prime95, it takes a long time for the temperature to ramp up. I’m using the Asus fan control software using the default settings, but I’ve run the Fan Tuning test so that the motherboard knows the different RPM ranges. CPU temperature hits 62C (ambient is 25C), and you have to really struggle to hear any noise. Max RPMs are 750 (cpu), 600 (cha1) and 650 (cha2) respectively. I considered buying a 200mm fan to put in the front, but it’s honestly not needed. It might help slightly with the GPU fan noise however, so I might get one at a later point.

One thing the review doesn't mention is that this case actually has 5 slots for 2.5 inch drives in addition to the drive cages, so there are plenty of options if you don’t want to use the cages.

A problem I had during the build was that I wanted to remove the 5.25” cage, but unfortunately the screw driver I was used was slightly too small, so I stripped the head of the left front screw holding the cage. I might drill it out at a later point. Another problem I had with the build is that the Mugen MAX blocks access to one of the motherboard screw holes, so I had to use 3 instead of the 4 screws. The only way to avoid this is to install the heatsink after mounting the motherboard, but it’s already cramped enough in there that I don’t recommend it.

Overall I’m really happy with the new system. It’s only when gaming that it becomes less than 100% quiet, and even then I’m either wearing headphones or the screen speakers ensure that I can’t hear the GPU fans.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group