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Positive or negative air pressure inside the case?
Positive 39%  39%  [ 7 ]
Negative 39%  39%  [ 7 ]
Neutral 22%  22%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 18
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 Post subject: 0 fans on abit IX38 quadGT inside P182
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:51 pm 
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Posts: 162
Location: Finland
EDIT 1.3.2010 (It's good to have current system specs in the beginning of the first post, right?)

Sound level
- inaudible from 0,8m when HDD's are in sleep
- audible from +6m when HDD's are spinning

Temperatures IDLE (ambient 22,5C)
MB 37 °C (98 °F)
CPU 39 °C (102 °F)
Core1 44 °C (111 °F)
Core2 40 °C (104 °F)
PWM1 54 °C (129 °F)
PWM2 55 °C (131 °F)
PWM3 55 °C (131 °F)
PWM4 53 °C (127 °F)
PWM5 52 °C (126 °F)
GPU 62 °C (144 °F)
Seagate ST3750330AS 35 °C (95 °F)
WDC WD7500AACS-00D6B1 44 °C (111 °F)

Temperatures STRESS TEST (CPU, FPU, Cache, MEM, GPU @ 100% load for long enough, no more rise visible. Ambient at 22,5)
MB 40 °C (104 °F)
CPU 46 °C (115 °F)
Core1 50 °C (122 °F)
Core2 46 °C (115 °F)
PWM1 56 °C (133 °F)
PWM2 56 °C (133 °F)
PWM3 57 °C (135 °F)
PWM4 55 °C (131 °F)
PWM5 54 °C (129 °F)
GPU 77 °C (171 °F)
Seagate ST3750330AS 41 °C (106 °F)
WDC WD7500AACS-00D6B1 44 °C (111 °F)

CASE Antec P182B (rev.2), modded:
- Original tri-cool fans removed
- Back exhaust vent, holes for water cooling, some other minor holes in back of the case blocked with transparent tape
- Extra grill holes around PSU exhaust vent blocked (originally for HDD cooling with a fan in middle of lower chamber)
- EXHAUST: Top dust cover removed. Top exhaust vent continued with a 1,2m x 12cm carton tube working as a chimney to boost natural airflow upwards
- INTAKE: both front intake vents + lower free card slots (5)
- Cooling: passive

MOTHERBOARD Abit IX38QuadGT
- Cooling: passive

CPU Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3,0GHz, underclocked and undervolted
- Clock @ 1,2-1,8 GHz (6x-9x*200MHz). Voltage at steady 0,8V
- Cooling: passiveScythe Ninja Copper (fan removed)

MEMORY OCZ DDR2 PC2-6400 SLI-Ready Edition Dual Channel

- Running at 800MHz, undervolted to 1,8V
- Cooling: passive

GPU [url]MSI G210 512MB NVIDIA GeForce Graphics Card N210-MD512H[/url]

- Cooling: passive (stock heatsink)

PSU Seasonic S12II-430 Power Supply modded
- original ADDA fan (62 CFM) switched to SCYTHE SLIP STREAM SY1225SL12L
- Cooling: active, fan @ 4,12V (estimated 250rpm)

STORAGE1 WDC WD7500AACS-00D6B1 (750 GB) at lower chamber
- SATA IDE at lower chamber
STORAGE2 ST3750330AS (750 GB)
- SATA IDE at lower chamber
STORAGE3 old ST (250Gb)
- unblugged until needed, IDE at upper chamber
OPTICAL old LG DVD-RW
- unblugged until needed, IDE at upper chamber
- only virtual drives in use

USB (in use)
- Memory card reader 12 in 1
- Wireless keyboard + mouse, silvercrest
- Epson Stylus Photo RX425 (M)
- Microsoft LifeCam VX-6000

SCREEN 1&2
- LG L196WTQ (Digital) [19" LCD] @ 1440*900, DVI
- Sony KDL40E4500 @ 1080p, HDMI

OS Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate

END OF EDIT 1.3.2010

After almost 2 years of making it better (better equals to more silence and more performance) i'm finally happy. I don't hear it any more from where i sit. And in 2 years i have not grown too old to loose my hearing.

Here's how it was for couple of years:

Down in the basement 1 noctua 12cm is spinning at 480rpm BETWEEN a 15dB Power Supply and 2 western digital hard drives, sucking air from front and blowing it to backside (towards the power supply). When I sit next to my computer i can hear a hum, and hard drives powering on every now and then with pretty annoying noise (annoying compared to other parts) - but that's about it.

On the first floor I have two 12cm noctuas at 480rpm, both blowing air in to the case. One in the front panel is cooling another HDD. One in the back side is in 45 degree angle, blowing air straight towards a heat sinked GeForce 210. Back there the air comes in from free card slots (5) under the GPU card. Those opened slot holes are covered with a dust filter which is easy to remove and wash (DIY!).

On the top floor i have a heatsinked E8400 DualCore. One 12cm noctua is under the heat sink, blowing air upwards through the sink at 300rpm. The last 12cm noctua is at top back hole, and it's the only one which sucks air out. But it's normally running with only 120rpm, so most of the air flows out more or less free from the rooftop hole in the case. Rooftop is without a fan.

Fan speeds:

My fans are spinning slow, thanks for 2 solutions. First one is abit uGuru software which allows fan speed control based on readings from temperature sensors CPU, SYS and PWM1-5. The software controls 6 fans at max, i'm using 5. My settings are at lowest possible levels - and believe me it took time to test those settings. Another solution is noctuas resistor wires which reduce the voltage by either 30% or 50%.
- 120rpm CPU fan at top back hole: 30%-100% by uGuru, -50% by wire, leaving it only 15%-50% of the original voltage. I'm glad it spins at all at the 15% :)
- 300rpm SYS fan under the CPU is also reading CPU temp. by uGuru it's getting 50-100%, by wire another -50%, leaving it 25%-50% of max. I'm glad it's spinning too.
- 480rpm AUX1/2/3 fans (3) are all reduced to 50-100% by uGuru and they have a -30% wire. So they are left with 34-70% of full power. One of them is reading PWM average temp, one is reading MB temp and one is reading PWM highest temp. That was a compromise since it's spinning in the basement and should be reading HDD's, but that was not an option in uGuru software.

Performance: (hear this solution please)

During the time of my build I found out one of the most important things to achieve a quiet PC - Do not produce heat more than you really need! I solved the problem with changing my GPU to 40nm (less power consumption) version and UNDERCLOCKING and OVERCLOCKING at the same time - another nice thing that uGuru can do on the fly.

Phase 1. I underclocked my computer via BIOS to 6x200/9x200=1,2GHz/1,8GHz. I use these settings with internet browser and other light programs, but also when watching HD movies or internet TV. Computer uses 1A-9A (with some peaks up to 12A) power with these settings.

Phase 2. I overclocked my computer via abit uGuru to 9x400=3,6GHz. I set uGuru to automatically use these turbo-settings only with heavier games and get back to default underclocking when the game is over. Computer uses 6A-46A with these settings (with peaks just above 50A sometimes).

Performance is great with overclocking. Compared to Everest test database saved inside the program (vesion 5.02.1847) it's the fastest dual core in all tests.

Temperature readings:

On idle (in both default and turbo settings) readings are between 35 (sys) to 52 (pwm highest).

In default speed (underclocked) i don't get them much higher without a stress test for 25 mins. After that i have reached 58C for my CPU - and only one of the fans have changed its spinning speed at that point, reaching 640rpm. Situation stays the same for hours (tested 9h).

During a stress test on turbo speed (overclocked) my CPU reaches 60C in few minutes but stays on that level for hours. At the max load (overclocked, 100% stress test for all components) my fastest noctua seems to run at 750rpm. The highest temperature i've ever seen was 62C for my CPU. Test for running for 8h and stressing all the components 100% exept the HDD's.

Room temperature during all the tests was 21,6C. The case and all the filters were cleaned of dust before the tests.

USING THE BUILD

Why did I put so much to it. Well, I live in the middle of a forest with practically no sound in the surrounding. I love to listen to music. I like to watch good movies. I don't want to have a rig of equipment for all that - one quiet HTPC must do. And now it does. My computer is standing behind a 40" Sony Bravia, and i don't hear it at all when sitting 3m from the television. Sitting next to it I hear it - but i know if I lived in a city i wouldn't.

IT'S A POSITIVE PRESSURE BUILD


Positive air pressure suits me, because it collects less dust in the case. Or actually it gives more controlled air flow to prevent the dust coming in from where ever (there are several channels for dust in any case). In my case it's achieved with 2x480rpm inwards and only 120rpm outwards. It might have some effect on the noise level too, but i wouldn't know since i haven't heard a similar build with different fan locations. The basement in my build is without any change in pressure since noctua and PSU fan are moving about the same amount of air down there. I suppose its close to neutral.

Thanks to everybody who have written here - i got so much from this forum. It all started at June 23, 2008 with this thread: http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... highlight=
I put this same poll back again after my build, please answer.


Last edited by maalitehdas on Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 12:04 am
Posts: 162
Location: Finland
From 5 fans to 2 fans, this phase lasted for a month:

Now that i got back here again (in the SPCR forum) i decided to test my setup more properly. During my tests I made even more fine tuning with fan positioning and decided to allow hotter components to get the setup closer to inaudible.

After few simple tests with different fans turned on and off i decided to turn my GPU fan around and sink it deeper into the case. Now it's blowing in vertical position under the GPU and air is flowing out from 5 free card slots. That used to be an intake for GPU cooling. Fan is now located quite close to middle point of the P182 case. So it's not positive pressure any more! Using those free card slots as an intake my PSU's hot air was too close to that, so I was actually sucking warm air into the case! And to go on, air get's even hotter when it flows around the GPU and all that heat has to pass MB before it get's out from top of the case. After that simple move I managed to lower the average temperature of the whole system with 3 degrees at IDLE!. GPU runs hotter than before but all other parts are much cooler. Well, 3 degrees with that was so simple that i decided to run some proper tests to gain even more.

First some basic info about the testing for those who like to experience between few and several fans:
- System: MB Abit IX38 quadGT, CPU Dual E8400, GPU fanless GF210, HDD 2*ST+1*WD,PSU Seasonic 380W, Ninja processor cooler, Noctua 12cm fans. No overclocking, no underclocking during tests.
- The max rpm of the fans is 1200, but i didn't test with that at all. My fans use both wire-limiters and BIOS-settings for lowest speeds possible.
- One of the fans is working with very low voltage (2V), others would just stop spinning with that! I do need to start it with 6V thou.
- Stress test is made with 100% load to CPU, FBU, cache and system MEM. GPU was loaded at the same time with one TrueHD movie, but that wasn't really much to handle for GF210. Stress test was running as long as needed to reach maximum temperature levels in each sensor + additional 15 mins to see that they really are at max.
- Temperatures mentioned in results are all celcius degrees
- Whenever a temperature difference is mentioned in the test results, it means a difference between max temperatures and different fan settings during stress test

- Ambient temperature was 21C in all tests (20,7C to be exact)
- Ambient: Wooden countryside house, no traffic, no wind, no neighboars nor birds, all electrical stuff in the whole house turned off during test (exept screen). Very quiet!
- All the sound levels are valued with ear only, i dont have a meter. Sound levels are valued as meters: I walked away from computer until i couldn't hear it any more.

Temperatures with 5-fan setup

Quote:
LOW fan RPM's at 150/480/540/540/540
comp/idle/stress
MB 32 35
CPU 36 60
cor1 41 60
cor2 36 58
pw1 50 62
pw2 50 62
pw3 50 63
pw4 50 62
pw5 48 59
GPU 44 48

Sound level: inaudible from 3m

FASTER fan RPM's at 480/900/1080/1080/1080
comp/idle/stress/difference
MB 28 30 -5
CPU 30 48 -12
cor1 36 52 -8
cor2 31 48 -10
pw1 39 49 -13
pw2 39 48 -14
pw3 40 49 -14
pw4 38 49 -13
pw5 37 47 -12
GPU 38 42 -6

Sound level: audible from next room, door closed. I had to walk four more meters away from the door to not hear it any more. (Please notice the ambient is really silent here).


Thoughts: I wasn't happy with the fan setup after all, since i could easily allow hotter components during a 100% load. System was quiet but it could be better with less airflow.

Solution: My next test is to shut down 3 of those 5 fans, leaving only two slowest at work. 1 is under the ninja-heatsink blowing upwards, another is in right side of GPU blowing under it. Intake is "somewhere in front". All the HDD's are moved to the basement and PSU fan keeps them cool enough.

Temperatures with 2-fan setup

Quote:
LOW fan RPM's 150/480
comp/idle/stress
MB 36 39
CPU 46 73
cor1 50 73
cor2 46 71
pw1 56 68
pw2 57 69
pw3 58 70
pw4 56 70
pw5 55 68
GPU 52 55

Sound level: inaudible from 1,8m

FASTER fan RPM's at 480/900
comp/idle/stress/difference
MB 35 38 -1
CPU 42 63 -10
cor1 45 64 -9
cor2 42 62 -9
pw1 46 56 -12
pw2 48 57 -12
pw3 49 59 -11
pw4 47 58 -12
pw5 47 57 -11
GPU 47 51 -4

Sound level: inaudible from 6m


Thoughts: It's not even hot yet, but i'll have to wait for the summer. But I suppose I could already remove those extra-fans from the case? I did run 8h stress test with slower fan speeds to see it really work, and it does in this ambient temperature.

Solution: I'm keeping this setup for a while. I entered uGuru and set proper (high) temperature limits for those two fans:
- CPU fan is set with CPU temperature sensor. It's getting 30% at 65 degrees and 100% at 75 degrees. (voltage between 2-6V)
- GPU fan is set with PWM average temperature. (no GPU sensor detection in bios...) It's getting 50% at 70 degrees and 100% at 100 degrees (voltage between 4,5V-9V)

To go on: Since both the two fans are close to inaudible - should I open the Seasonic and shut down it's fan? I could use one of these more silent ones in the middle of the lower chamber to take care of both HDD's and PSU's cooling. Variable speed would be impossible thou, since my computer doesn't read PSU's temperature. Could I use PWM highest instead?

Haa. While the TV is on in this room and refrigerator is on in the kitchen, i'm sitting 60cm away from my P182 but I can't hear it. Only HDD is audible every now and then. But I do hear a hinch of the refrigerator located 6,5m away from me - and it's not an old noisy model. Clicking mouse and using keyboard is noisy now. Maybe, jus maybe I shouldn't work with quiet computer since everything else starts to bother my ear! I'm turning into an audiophile here, help me.

HINTS for others:
1. READ this forum - old topics too. It's GREAT
2. Hot air moves itself (upwards). Just a little push is enough to get it out from the case. It's worth trying to let your component's run a bit hotter, but don't loose stability there.
3. Underclock your system to what you actually need. Use software (like uGuru on Abit boards) to turn on TURBO mode when needed.
4. Vote, please. I don't know if pressure really matters, but i'd like to see your opinion here.


Last edited by maalitehdas on Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 12:04 am
Posts: 162
Location: Finland
In pictures (blue spots = fan locations)

BEFORE: PSU+5 fan's, positive pressure (inaudible at 3m with min speeds, average temp at full load 52,3C)
Image
TODAY: PSU+2 fan's, quite neutral pressure (inaudible at 1,8m with min speeds, average temp at full load 60,7C)
Image
TOMORROW:
?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:14 am
Posts: 28
Location: UK
Hi im running 5 fans also inside a P182 :) and one 14cm fan outside case in zalman xt :roll: my fans run at <600 rpm so pritty quite, about 3 meters for pure silience ^^, im using a nuture pressure build with 3 intakes and 2 outtakes + 1 psu, seems to work well as fans never have to ramp up even under 100% load as they only have to cool hdd's and chip sets ^^

if you got 3 dvd drive bays spare u can always try adding a scythe karma bay, so you can build a tunnel of fresh air directly for ur cpu and it would improve temps + air flow :)

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P182, Q6600 G0 2.4Ghz, XFX 8800GTS 320MB, Zalman reserator XT, 6GB DDR2, 1Tb WD green, 250Gb Seagate, 80Gb Intel xm25m,Corsair Hx520, Windows 7 Professional, Dell 2407, LG Flatron 17"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 12:04 am
Posts: 162
Location: Finland
I don't have a need for more cooling or less noise any more in the upper chamber, it's inaudible. I also need to get rid of other noise sources in the surrounding before I open the PSU to make lower chamber inaudible too, since now here are several sources louder than my PC (aquarium pump, Sony 40" HDTV, equipment in the kitchen to start with).

If i'm into serious use of power some day (like more gaming), i need to think it all over again because I need several hotter parts for performance upgrade, then air tunneling might become an issue too. At the moment this is a home theater setup for TV, movies and music and inaudibility is the thing - not performance. It runs also few games I play with just enough fps.

Powers have not been mentioned yet, sorry about that. IDLE is at 73W, 100% load for all components at the same time i counted for 396W (one peak of 42A i've seen, that counts for 506W).

And finally one photo too, any comments are welcome:
Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:48 am 
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Location: the ether
well documented! it'll be interesting to see how the dust buildup goes with this latest version.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:33 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 12:04 am
Posts: 162
Location: Finland
I have quite a good experience about the dust situation in the 5 fan setup and no new holes are made in the case - so i'll try to keep you informed if it's worse now with this neutralized pressure (compared to previous positive pressure). It takes a while thou...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:09 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 12:04 am
Posts: 162
Location: Finland
Story goes on: From 5 fans to 2 fans, from 2 fans to 0 fans.

PSU fan in the lower chamber is still running, so it's really a 1 fan system... but no fans in upper chamber, so CPU, GPU and North bridge cooling is totally passive now. Highest temperature under 100% CPU load would be CPU Core at 72C. Doing good here, but how do i get rid of the PSU fan and still keep PSU cool to make it totally passive? Some secret modding is made outside the case, read from green computing: http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=57619

Picture of the current setup inside the case coming soon.

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E8400 @ 1,8GHz, passive cooling | CPU Queen 7163 points | CPU stress test two hours, temperature 43C | fan rpm's ZERO


Last edited by maalitehdas on Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 12:04 am
Posts: 162
Location: Finland
And yet more, even the last fan (inside PSU) has gone.

I did put another one there. So I modded my PSU, replaced a stock ADDA fan with a silent Scythe flex. Well... it was really worth it. The airflow is sufficient. The sound of airflow is minimum. Inaudible from 1,4 meters now (was 1,8 before the mod). While sitting 1m away from PC, my LCD (LG flatron 196wtq) makes more noise. Should i be :D happy :D now or is there still something to do? Bigger noise coming from the kitchen...

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E8400 @ 1,8GHz, passive cooling | CPU Queen 7163 points | CPU stress test two hours, temperature 43C | fan rpm's ZERO


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:14 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 12:04 am
Posts: 162
Location: Finland
Getting better all the time...
With serious undervolting my underclocked processor (from original 1,125V-1,225V to steady 0,9V) My core temps at full load are close to 40C now. Looking good here.

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E8400 @ 1,8GHz, passive cooling | CPU Queen 7163 points | CPU stress test two hours, temperature 43C | fan rpm's ZERO


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:58 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 12:04 am
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Location: Finland
I Underclocked my CPU to 1,2GHz (6x) - 1,8GHz (9x), and now it's undervolted to steady 0,8V. Calculated power drawn by CPU at 100% load is now 17W (original TDP is 65W). Running pretty cool (2h stress test gives only 43C to my E8400 now, main chamber is passive cooled. Ambient was 21C during the stress test) with just enough performance for my personal needs.

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E8400 @ 1,8GHz, passive cooling | CPU Queen 7163 points | CPU stress test two hours, temperature 43C | fan rpm's ZERO


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:49 am 
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Location: the ether
.8 volts? if this keeps up, you might as well just take the cpu cooler off :D

run that thing off of a car battery!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:42 pm 
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Location: Finland
There is no cpu-fan to switch off... only scythe ninja on it. No other fans either in upper chamber of my case. Airflow is boosted by a chimney (carton tube).

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E8400 @ 1,8GHz, passive cooling | CPU Queen 7163 points | CPU stress test two hours, temperature 43C | fan rpm's ZERO


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:49 am
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Location: Kent, OH
As a P182 owner I appreciate your work on this. Looking forward to using the info to design my systems better!


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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 2:26 am 
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Posts: 162
Location: Finland
Inside view
Image
Chimney is painted to same color as one other wall,
image of the ready theatre setup in this thread

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E8400 @ 1,8GHz, passive cooling | CPU Queen 7163 points | CPU stress test two hours, temperature 43C | fan rpm's ZERO


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