New Case wanted with no Mods.

alexander · Post by **alexander** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:54 am

Hello, I am new here but I am building my first ever PC at the moment.
I have ordered my MSI Neo2 Platinum motherboard and am soon going to be buying a CPU of 3200+ (64 Bit of course) upwards. It is socket 939.

Now all I need is a case, the whole reason of me getting a new machine is for the silence, my SN45G shuttle is stuipdly noisy and is the reason I want to change my machine. I will not be overclocking or doing any of that sort of stuff so I don't mind about cooling.

Would it be possible for you to recommend a very quiet Case, I've been reading about the Antec Sonata on here but have heard mixed things about it. I would basically like a plain black case with NO windows which is quiet without any of that modding sort of stuff. I don't really want to be playing around with changing fans and such like, I basically want to stick the motherboard and all the other stuff in and away it goes, as silent as can be. Anyway, here are my current specs with some noisy components (listed as !)

3200XP (Soon to be a 3200+ 64 Bit Skt 939)
Shuttle SN45G (Bloody noisy) (!!!!!!!) (Soon to be Asus A8V deluxe with the wireless card Socket 939)
MSI NX6800GT 256mb (!!!!!!)
250GB Maxline II 7200RPM 8mb Cache (!!!!)
Audigy 2
1GB Dual Channel Twinmos PC3200 RAM
DVD-RW Philips (A bloody noisy Dell one) (!!!!!!!)
MX700 Mouse
5.1 Creative P580 Speakers
LG1710B 17" TFT

So the requirements would be:

Black and Good Looking (I like the Tsunami Thermal take but it is too loud I think)
Very quiet and WITHOUT any sort of modding to do
No windows
around the £60 - £75 area (I think $140 area?)

So basically I think this is everything you need to know, many thanks, Alexander Pinder

PS: If anyone has a Dell 4600 what sort of quietness would that be compared to a Sonata?

Jordan · Post by **Jordan** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:15 pm

"I would basically like a plain black case with NO windows which is quiet without any of that modding sort of stuff. I don't really want to be playing around with changing fans and such like"

It's near impossible to get a quiet system without doing some fan tweaking/swapping

Go to the home page and check out the Antec SLK3000B (I think that was it), it seems to fit your need perfectly! It's already kinda pre modded and comes with a fan that you can just switch to low. It's a bit dull IMO. I had to swap out the PSU on my Sonata (expensive) and the stock fan but I wouldn't swap that piano black finish for the world. Looks are important to me too.

Add a Nexus or Seasonis PSU and you're on your way to a quiet system.

Without any modding it will be hard to quieten your HD though you could always get a HD enclosure (I can't remeber who mak,es the good ones).

alexander · Post by **alexander** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:22 pm

Hello, thankyou for that Jordan. I have just found this:

http://www.mediaatlantic.com/product.ph ... 6900a9f515

Does this not seem stupidly cheap? Is a PSU hard to fit? Could you recommend one? Is this case better than the Sonata and has this got a "piano" finish, sorry about all the questions but I really want to know what Im buying, many thanks, Alex

Talz · Post by **Talz** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:27 pm

3000B with any power supply highly rated by spcr (350 watt+, as long as it has enough on the 12v line) and an NV Silencer to top it all off. I would spend the money for a good hsf (zalman 7000 etc) that can do the job quietly as well. This should be within your budget if you can get a , and you could always improve upon the setup with some acoustipack later on. I don't believe you'll do much better without spending significantly more.

Talz · Post by **Talz** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:30 pm

It was just reviewed, it's basically the latest and greatest version of the 3700/sonata case from Antec sold without a power supply.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article210-page1.html

alexander · Post by **alexander** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:35 pm

Hello, I have seen the NV silencer but I have read that I void my warranty if I remove the fan which is obviously bad. Is the 3000B the same as the one I gave you a link to? I know it is the same model number but are there different rev numbers like there are for VGA ones? Should I buy that case from the link?
What is the Zalaman 7000 btw? please could you send me a model number of a very quiet PSU which would be fairly cheap? Many thanks, Alex

Jordan · Post by **Jordan** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:48 pm

Hmm no images so it's hard to tell if it's the exact same case though it is right by name. A lot cheaper than I expected too!

The Zalman CNPS7000 is a heatsink for the CPU. I'd advise against it (I have one btw) and recommend a Thermalright ZP-90/120 with a 92mm/120mm Nexus Real Silent fan to go with it. Obviously if you get the XP-90 get the 92mm fan, 120mm fan for the XP-120. The only worry with the XP-120 is if it will fit in the case. The XP-90 is a safer buy in this regard.

alexander · Post by **alexander** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:58 pm

Hello, this sounds all very confusing. I am no perfect person on the computer and I can only stick with the basics. So Am i meant to be attaching another fan to a heatsink which is connected to the CPU, would it be too much bother to go onto ebuyer.co.uk and find the "fans" I would need? If I bought a Retail 3500+ would the stock cooler be ok? I will not be overclocking. Are these sorta things hard to fit? Thanks for the help so far, it is much appreciated, Alex

EDIT: So the 3000B is better than the Antec Sonata?

Jordan · Post by **Jordan** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:26 pm

Oh you're from the UK

I never even saw that the case was in £! I assumed it was $

If you're not clear on what a heatsink is, it's the metal "block" that sits on top of your CPU with a fan on top. If you got a better one you would just disregard the stock one.

"If I bought a Retail 3500+ would the stock cooler be ok? I will not be overclocking. Are these sorta things hard to fit?"

It won't be quiet, that's the difference. Wheter you get the cooler or another you will still have to fit it. It isn't too difficult and the A64 has a heat sperader so it's difficult to damage it.

Kustom PCs have Nexus fans and PSUs, you can't find them in many places. Overclockers.co.uk will have the XP-90 HS.

"So the 3000B is better than the Antec Sonata?"

For airflow and the fact you can pick a better PSU, yes.

BigDonut · Post by **BigDonut** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:42 pm

3000B is the way to go if you like the 300 series / sonata

problem is after spending 35-40 quid on the case theres not enough left in your 70 quid budget for a good powerful quiet psu

if 350w is enough you can get the fortron source 350w from microdirect.co.uk for 30 quid the 400w come in at just over 40 quid.

There are also hiper power supplies, but i don't know much about them
a 425w dual fan is 38 quid

pdf27 · Post by **pdf27** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:37 pm

BigDonut wrote:problem is after spending 35-40 quid on the case theres not enough left in your 70 quid budget for a good powerful quiet psu
if 350w is enough you can get the fortron source 350w from microdirect.co.uk for 30 quid the 400w come in at just over 40 quid.
There are also hiper power supplies, but i don't know much about them
a 425w dual fan is 38 quid

Kustom do Nexus PSUs, while KoolNQuiet and XCase both do SeaSonic power supples (XCase apparently has the Super Tornado Rev.3, which seems pretty much impossible to find in the EU otherwise). Both are good - you'll almost certainly be happy with anything from either manufacturer, and if over time you decide you want to improve it further you can always mod it later (we all did

).

As for PSU power, 300W will be more than enough for your system if you get one by a good manufacturer. The reason people have such massively powerful PSUs is the "no-name" manufacturers wildly overstate the power they supply, and so the hardware manufacturers pump up what they say they need to avoid the blame if the PSU isn't up to it. Look around SPCR and you'll find lots of examples of heavily loaded systems (far more so than yours) running happily on 300W PSUs.

Oh, and if it isn't too late, you get the standard big blue Welcome to SPCR!

autoboy · Post by **autoboy** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:53 pm

I had a shuttle and i swaped the fan for a panaflow H1A. I set the fan control in the bios to Low unless the CPU got over 60C. Never has yet. My power supply in my case was actually not too bad but it was the 220W model. I'm not sure if that makes any difference. Now the computer is not too bad for noise, although i have a seagate drive which helps. Not as good as i would like but not too bad. It might be worth a try befre you spend 100 bucks.

Jordan · Post by **Jordan** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:09 am

I agree with the last statement. I was going to suggest it but you seemed really against modding. All the shuttle would need is a fan swap and decoupeling the HD to bring noise levels down.

BigDonut · Post by **BigDonut** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:52 am

pdf27 wrote:
BigDonut wrote:problem is after spending 35-40 quid on the case theres not enough left in your 70 quid budget for a good powerful quiet psu
if 350w is enough you can get the fortron source 350w from microdirect.co.uk for 30 quid the 400w come in at just over 40 quid.
There are also hiper power supplies, but i don't know much about them
a 425w dual fan is 38 quid
Kustom do Nexus PSUs, while KoolNQuiet and XCase both do SeaSonic power supples (XCase apparently has the Super Tornado Rev.3, which seems pretty much impossible to find in the EU otherwise). Both are good - you'll almost certainly be happy with anything from either manufacturer, and if over time you decide you want to improve it further you can always mod it later (we all did ).

As for PSU power, 300W will be more than enough for your system if you get one by a good manufacturer. The reason people have such massively powerful PSUs is the "no-name" manufacturers wildly overstate the power they supply, and so the hardware manufacturers pump up what they say they need to avoid the blame if the PSU isn't up to it. Look around SPCR and you'll find lots of examples of heavily loaded systems (far more so than yours) running happily on 300W PSUs.

Oh, and if it isn't too late, you get the standard big blue Welcome to SPCR!

thanks for the welcome, i hadn't had one yet

I had a look at a wattage calculator, the one constantly referred to on here and it looked like 350w was going to be very close so i thought i'd need 400w.

my specs are
abit av8
athlong 64 3500+ (winchester) i may try overclocking
abit siluro fx5600
40gb seaate barracuda
160gb seagate or samsung sata (still to buy)
nec/pioneer 16x dvdrw (still to buy)
1gb (2x512) crucial ballistix pc4000 ram

I'm on a small budget so was looking at the slk 3000b at 35-40 and a psu at 30-40 quid max
the 300W supplies are definetly affordable for me but just won't have the juice i feel so prob have to look at 350W min.

pdf27 · Post by **pdf27** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:11 am

BigDonut wrote: I had a look at a wattage calculator, the one constantly referred to on here and it looked like 350w was going to be very close so i thought i'd need 400w.
my specs are
abit av8
athlong 64 3500+ (winchester) i may try overclocking
abit siluro fx5600
40gb seaate barracuda
160gb seagate or samsung sata (still to buy)
nec/pioneer 16x dvdrw (still to buy)
1gb (2x512) crucial ballistix pc4000 ram

I'm on a small budget so was looking at the slk 3000b at 35-40 and a psu at 30-40 quid max
the 300W supplies are definetly affordable for me but just won't have the juice i feel so prob have to look at 350W min.

Well, I just found the following in this thread: http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=3075

I acquired a "Plug-In Mains Power & Energy monitor" today from maplin's 1/2 price sale.

My fortron 300w 120mm fanned (fsp300-60pn(pf)A) psu (modded with evercool 120mm @ 5v) runs the following:
Amd Athlon64 3200+ Winchester socket 939 (currently at 2200mhz, 10x220)
1gig (2x512mb pc3200 samsung original tccc chips)
MSI K8N Neo2 platinum (nforce 3 socket 939)
ATI Radeon 9700np with vga silencer 3
Hauppauge wintv card
Hercules fortissimo II sound card
NEC 3500 dvd writer
Liteon 52x cd writer
Maxtor diamondmax plus 8 40gig
Samsung Spinpoint80 160gig JVC motor
1x evercool 120mm @ 5v intake
1x papst 92mm 3412NL @ 7v exhaust
Zalman 7000 ALCU @ lowest setting

Running prime95 right now the reading is 144watts AC.

The AC reading indicates that under stress (prime95), the PSU still only needs to deliver about 120W! I would think a decent 300W PSU would easily be enough for your rig.

BigDonut · Post by **BigDonut** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:12 am

pdf27 wrote: Well, I just found the following in this thread: http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=3075

The AC reading indicates that under stress (prime95), the PSU still only needs to deliver about 120W! I would think a decent 300W PSU would easily be enough for your rig.

thanks for that. I'de read that thread bu must have missed that system.

iirc it was the A on the 12V or 5V that were a problem when I used the watage calculator
EDIT: checked and it was the 12V line. I think it mainly comes from the estimation that seagate hdd will require 2.5 on the 12V line.

just had a look and seen the FSP350-60PN(pf) for less than 30 quid. so that might be the way to go.
but there is also FSP 350W version2.0 Intel ATX12V +12cm fan 24pin Molex ATX FSP350-60THN-P for £30.55 more so that could be the way to go.

the extra 50W would give me that bit of space for adding a new GFX and HDD and for overclocking

alexander · Post by **alexander** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:43 am

BigDonut wrote:
pdf27 wrote:
BigDonut wrote:problem is after spending 35-40 quid on the case theres not enough left in your 70 quid budget for a good powerful quiet psu
if 350w is enough you can get the fortron source 350w from microdirect.co.uk for 30 quid the 400w come in at just over 40 quid.
There are also hiper power supplies, but i don't know much about them
a 425w dual fan is 38 quid
Kustom do Nexus PSUs, while KoolNQuiet and XCase both do SeaSonic power supples (XCase apparently has the Super Tornado Rev.3, which seems pretty much impossible to find in the EU otherwise). Both are good - you'll almost certainly be happy with anything from either manufacturer, and if over time you decide you want to improve it further you can always mod it later (we all did ).

As for PSU power, 300W will be more than enough for your system if you get one by a good manufacturer. The reason people have such massively powerful PSUs is the "no-name" manufacturers wildly overstate the power they supply, and so the hardware manufacturers pump up what they say they need to avoid the blame if the PSU isn't up to it. Look around SPCR and you'll find lots of examples of heavily loaded systems (far more so than yours) running happily on 300W PSUs.

Oh, and if it isn't too late, you get the standard big blue Welcome to SPCR!
thanks for the welcome, i hadn't had one yet

I had a look at a wattage calculator, the one constantly referred to on here and it looked like 350w was going to be very close so i thought i'd need 400w.

my specs are
abit av8
athlong 64 3500+ (winchester) i may try overclocking
abit siluro fx5600
40gb seaate barracuda
160gb seagate or samsung sata (still to buy)
nec/pioneer 16x dvdrw (still to buy)
1gb (2x512) crucial ballistix pc4000 ram

I'm on a small budget so was looking at the slk 3000b at 35-40 and a psu at 30-40 quid max
the 300W supplies are definetly affordable for me but just won't have the juice i feel so prob have to look at 350W min.

Wasn't that welcome for me

I think im in exactly the same boat as Big Donut

pdf27 · Post by **pdf27** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:14 pm

alexander wrote:Wasn't that welcome for me I think im in exactly the same boat as Big Donut

Well, it was originally for you as I could see you were new. Since it turns out Big Donut hadn't had one either it goes for him too.
It's one of the things I love about SPCR that it's just such a friendly and helpful place...

BigDonut · Post by **BigDonut** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:45 pm

alexander wrote: Wasn't that welcome for me I think im in exactly the same boat as Big Donut

oops so it was for you. My apologies for stealing your welcome....its just I hadn't had one yet and was feeling left out

Bitter Jitter · Post by **Bitter Jitter** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:03 pm

Just to offer up another option, Novatech have Nexus 300w PSU's for £25, they are probably quieter than the Fortron.

That Antec SLK3000B looks like a good case, nice price at £30 too.

Just for you BigDonut......

WELCOME TO SPCR!!

alexander · Post by **alexander** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:09 pm

Hello Jitter, thank you very much for that link. Do you think that will be enough to power a 6800GT, 3500+, MSI Neo2 and a 250GB hard drive? Many thanks, Alex

Bitter Jitter · Post by **Bitter Jitter** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:58 pm

There i was typing a nice 'you'll be fine' message when i noticed you want to add a 6800GT. The wattage the PSU can cope with but maybe that’s asking too much of the 12v rail. Its only 15A, might be best go for the fortron after all. I don't want to say you'll be fine then you findout that your not.

On the other hand i just looked at this article at xbitlabs

6800GT 55w
9800pro 47w

The only downside is the load on the 12v rail, but even this doesn't look bad.

6800GT 34.21w 2.93A + 0.09A AGP 12v
9800pro 5.21w 0.44A + 0.15A AGP 12v

The more i look at those figures, the more i don't understand why people panic about 12v rails.
The 6800 GT uses 3A of the 15A available.

I'm pretty sure it will be fine, i can't say 100% because i haven't tried it myself. If it was me I would probably risk it as it won’t be spending all the time at maximum load will it?
The Fortron 350w only has 16A anyway, so to be safe you would need to get a much beefier PSU than both of these.

Hope my ramblings help and not confuse you even more!

BigDonut · Post by **BigDonut** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:07 pm

Thanks for the welcom Bitter Jitter.
Personnally I'd considered the nexus from novatech but had decided it was not sufficent on the 12v rail. was going to get the nexus 350w but it was 20quid more expensive.

'm looking at FSP350-60THN-P. 30 quid at microdirect.co.uk
here is some info

reading it it has two 12V+ rails one 10A max the other 15A max. I guess the first is for the cpu and the 2nd is for all the others.

so it may be a good choice. question is how quiet it will run

I think i will need to do some further reading to really grasp this dual rail thing but it seems to be a good thing

EDIT: I also considered the enermax noisetaker 320W EG325AX-VE(G) SFMA. it is available for 38 quid from aria.co.uk
specification on voltages etc here its dual rail and with a 12v 12A and 12V 11A rail
bit more expensive but should be reasinably silent out of the box going by the review here
we might have a new leader in the my hunt for a psu

Bitter Jitter · Post by **Bitter Jitter** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:42 am

I understand your concern over the 12v rail issue. Without testing these things myself it seems a little foolish of me to go and say that it will 100% work, when i know that i simply can't prove it.

If i needed to upgrade my graphic card i would happily test the water and report back, but i'm happy with my Radeon and i've only had it 6 months!

Before i brought my Nexus i was planning on getting a Fortron, back then the 120mm fan model had only just come out and i was planning on getting it but i wanted the quietest i could afford and Nexus ticked all the boxes.

This Fortron from Microdirect is the updated model and may have a better fan/controller. If it doesn't then the Enermax should be quieter according SPCR.

If it was my money then i would probably go Enermax.....

Ideally i would say Seasonic but the only place you can buy them from is Xcase and they want over £50 for 350w.

The reason is because they must import them rather than buy them from a local distributor.

Come Seasonic Europe needs you!!!

pdf27 · Post by **pdf27** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:52 am

Bitter Jitter wrote:Ideally i would say Seasonic but the only place you can buy them from is Xcase and they want over £50 for 350w.
The reason is because they must import them rather than buy them from a local distributor.

XCase have the Rev A3 (Super Tornadoes?). Other places like coolnquiet have the Rev A2s. XCase are NOT the only people in the UK with Seasonics...

BigDonut · Post by **BigDonut** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:55 am

It was the quietness rating from SPCR that was leaning me towards the enermax even though its slightly more expensive than the fortron.

I think as long as its the dual rail then I don't really have the concerns any more. Its the single rail of the nexus that I think might be pushed a wee bit too close to the limit.

seasonic would be nice but as you say they are expensive. Would be nice if they had a base in europe or even better just down the road

so looking like i'm going to go with enermax 320W and antec slk3000B though am considering the chenbro gaming bomb and the coolermaster centurion 5.

So many choices

Bitter Jitter · Post by **Bitter Jitter** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:14 am

pdf27 wrote:
Bitter Jitter wrote:Ideally i would say Seasonic but the only place you can buy them from is Xcase and they want over £50 for 350w.
The reason is because they must import them rather than buy them from a local distributor.
XCase have the Rev A3 (Super Tornadoes?). Other places like coolnquiet have the Rev A2s. XCase are NOT the only people in the UK with Seasonics...

Yeah i meant the Rev A3 Super Tornadoes, but that doesn't change the fact that Seasonics are not widely available or cheap like Fortron's and to an extent Nexus. These three companies are comparable on price in the US but in Europe Seasonic is in a league of it's own....

I'm sure that Enermax will do the job just fine.

As for case, i have to say i like that Antec and at £30 its about the same price as the gaming bomb. Coolermaster centurion is quite an open design, i can't see it being the best for quietness.

Just as a side note, i had a look around Fortrons site and they have a new model called 'GreenPower'

• High Efficiency exceeds 85% (at full load)
• Low power consumption on standby (<1W)
• Under 30dBA Low Noise Design
• Active PFC Circuit

Could the new Seasonic S12 be based on this? Looks like a good design, 85% + that’s Antec Phantom levels!

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:34 am

Bitter Jitter wrote:Could the new Seasonic S12 be based on this? Looks like a good design, 85% + that’s Antec Phantom levels!

Since Seasonic is a PSU manufacturer (much like Fortron), I doubt that the S12 is based on it. Though I'd bet its designed similarly on the insides.

BigDonut · Post by **BigDonut** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:34 am

85% seems excellent to me. wonder how long it will take to appear in the uk. Hopefully at a nice price point for budget consumers like myself.

Thanks for all the advice.

Bitter Jitter · Post by **Bitter Jitter** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:01 am

Here to help.

My guess is that it will replace the current Fortrons in time but it could be months. When they do become avaliable i think i might pick one up and swap out the fan for a Nexus 120mm (if the original is too loud).
As for price, fortron are pretty good value normally and lots of places stock them in the UK so it should be under £40 for 350w, maybe even lower.

[quote=sthayashi]Since Seasonic is a PSU manufacturer (much like Fortron), I doubt that the S12 is based on it. Though I'd bet its designed similarly on the insides.[/quote]

When i say 'based', i mean like car manufactures sharing platforms for similar models. They look nothing alike but the design underneath is similar.
Of course like you say if Seasonic manufactures PSU's then they might design them from the ground up.
Either way it is likely that Seasonic have increased the efficiency of the S12, but if they haven't then Fortron may have an advantage.

I could speculate all day but i won't because the one certainty in life. 'Everything changes'