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Is your P150 HDD suspension rubber band OK?
Yes, it's fine. 53%  53%  [ 33 ]
No, it snapped! 47%  47%  [ 29 ]
Total votes : 62
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:06 pm 
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Heh. Rubber bands breaking is a serious matter. Data is the most valuable thing and losing it due to a rubber band would suck beyound anything.

Anyway, dump the rubber bands guys. I use elastic strings purchased at my local walmart for ~$1-2. It's a combination of rubber and cloth (basically the same stuff your underwear waist band is made of). It's elastic and even if the rubber part of it rots away/breaks due to heat the cloth part will hold the drive. Very good stuff.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:35 pm 
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Has anybody tried replacing the stock rubber bands with Stretch Magic?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:28 am 
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aeropenny wrote:
How do they sound fixed in the drive sleds compared to being suspended? Is there much vibration? I'm considering the P150 because I get an awful 'beat effect' pulsing vibration with my 2 hard drives, but I might just go for a couple of 2.5-inch drives in my old case instead.

It's not too bad, and certainly better much than the standard grommet mountings in an SLK3700AMB (which I was using previously). Seek noise is a little more noticeable as you'd expect, and there's a soft background "thrumming" which wasn't there before, although you have to be listening deliberately for it and it probably wouldn't bother most people.

There's no sign of the dreaded "beat effect" with which I'm all too familiar, but I suspect this is very much dependent on your particular drives and their harmonic interaction. I suppose it would also vary according to the particular drive bays you were using, so you'd need to switch things around and see what works best.

I'd say overall the mounting sleds are probably "good enough" most of the time, but they certainly wouldn't satisfy you if you're looking for the nth degree of silence (as many people here are of course), and you'd really need to find another way of suspending your HDDs. I've always avoided the DIY "rubber band" solution for the very reasons shown in this thread, but I'd kind of assumed (always dangerous) that if it was incorporated as part of the original case design, it would have been thoroughly researched and tested and should have been safe enough. As for alternative suspension methods, the thought of having working HDDs dangling on bungee cords with nothing locating them in place except their own inertia just makes me cringe, although I admit many people do it with apparently no problems. Every man has to draw the line somewhere... :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:07 am 
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I think I'll be drawing the line with a different case :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:12 am 
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There seems to be no end to the misery with the P150. First, it is power supply compatability and defects. Next, broken seals on the power supplies. Now the drive suspension elastic breaks. Is there anything left to go wrong?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:16 am 
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diver wrote:
There seems to be no end to the misery with the P150. First, it is power supply compatability and defects. Next, broken seals on the power supplies. Now the drive suspension elastic breaks. Is there anything left to go wrong?

Only if the case's resonant frequency is 120Hz. You'll have to use Raptors or flash memory for storage then. :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:16 am 
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Ok, here's the info I promised:

I used an AS568A # 237 o-ring. This measures 3 3/8" x 3 5/8"

McMaster sells these in a number of different rubber compounds--

Buna (decent all around, probably sufficient -- temp range -30f to 230f)
part # 9452k166 -- $11.75 for 50 (this is what I used, as we had them in stock)

Viton (temp range -10f to 400f, more resistant to solvents)
part # 9464k237 -- $11.03 for 10

PTFE (-100f to 450f, "excellent" abrasion resistance, the others are "fair")
part # 9559k221 -- $7.75 for 2

The Buna o-rings I used are significantly thicker than the stock ones -- ~3.6mm vs. 3mm. They still fit easily in the stock location.

One consideration of note-- the o-rings that broke in my P150 seem slightly different than those in my co-workers new case. Mine had a white powdery residue on them, his do not (and are shiny black.) We are not using the suspension in his case, so I can't do anything other than speculate that Antec may (knowingly or not) have already run through a bad-batch of these. Those of you who have had broken bands -- did they match my description, or is that merely coincidence?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:50 am 
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2 weeks later, I still have not received the replacement bands that antec claimed they were shipping to me. Its time for a follow up phone call.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:51 am 
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Why bother with ordering from MacMasters &w/ all that hassle and cost?? If you're going to swap out the o-rings in the P150 for something else, then a loop of clothing elastic (with the ends tied into a knot) is unbeatable for strength, price, & effectiveness. Really. This stuff is unbreakable in the HDD suspension application. The photo below shows why.

Image

The elastic I used for the very first homebrew suspension I made is half the thickness of the above & has been in constant use in my main PC (which runs 24/7/365) & is still working w/o problems FIVE YEARS LATER!

JazzJackRabbit already touched on the reasons why this stuff is so hardy, but in case people have missed it...

1) It has multiple rubber strands; it's just not possible to break all the strands accidentally.
2) The woven poly-fabric sheathing is really tough & even if all the rubber strands could be broken, the sheath itself would hold together.

I would pit this against any stretchy rubber loop / string / band for this application.

---------

Also, for those who are seeing red about P150 flaws, yes, I agree this is not good, but it's also very easy to protect against. The simplest thing to do is to take the drive tray directly below the suspended drive and insert it upside down. When I did it, the gap between the bottom of the suspended drive and the top of the upsidedown tray was less than a quarter inch. If the rubber ring breaks, and the drive falls, the distance it falls is insignificant.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:11 am 
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Excellent points Mike. I was fortunate to have these o-rings in stock in our shop, so it makes sense for me. For others, maybe not, but interest was expressed, so there's the info. :D

Good tip about the drive trays! I have extra foam packed around my drives, making them safe even if another o-ring failed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:15 am 
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zhenya wrote:
luminate wrote:
I'd be interested if anyone finds a suitable replacement. All Antec will tell me is that they're on backorder.


http://www.mcmaster.com/

I can look up the exact part number I used from our stock at work tommorow if people are interested. I guarantee you won't have another failure if you replace the stock bands with a good o-ring.


Thanks for getting us the part number, but your description of these o-rings has changed from the quality assurance above to "Buna (decent all around, probably sufficient -- temp range -30f to 230f)
part # 9452k166 -- $11.75 for 50 (this is what I used, as we had them in stock)"

We are going from "I guarantee you won't have another failure if you replace the stock bands with a good o-ring."

To: "Buna (decent all around, probably sufficient -- temp range -30f to 230f)"

Probably sufficient is not as reassuring as "I guarantee . . ."

Having said that, I don't want to appear ungrateful for the time you put in finding us that part number, I just don't understand why your description changed so dramatically.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:36 am 
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MikeC wrote:
Why bother with ordering from MacMasters &w/ all that hassle and cost?? If you're going to swap out the o-rings in the P150 for something else, then a loop of clothing elastic (with the ends tied into a knot) is unbeatable for strength, price, & effectiveness. Really. This stuff is unbreakable in the HDD suspension application. The photo below shows why.

Image

The elastic I used for the very first homebrew suspension I made is half the thickness of the above & has been in constant use in my main PC (which runs 24/7/365) & is still working w/o problems FIVE YEARS LATER!

JazzJackRabbit already touched on the reasons why this stuff is so hardy, but in case people have missed it...

1) It has multiple rubber strands; it's just not possible to break all the strands accidentally.
2) The woven poly-fabric sheathing is really tough & even if all the rubber strands could be broken, the sheath itself would hold together.

I would pit this against any stretchy rubber loop / string / band for this application.

---------

Also, for those who are seeing red about P150 flaws, yes, I agree this is not good, but it's also very easy to protect against. The simplest thing to do is to take the drive tray directly below the suspended drive and insert it upside down. When I did it, the gap between the bottom of the suspended drive and the top of the upsidedown tray was less than a quarter inch. If the rubber ring breaks, and the drive falls, the distance it falls is insignificant.


Thanks for the tip with drive bay inversion.

Mike, have you thought of making your elastic things available as a replacement for original Antec o-rings? I would feel much more secure knowing you did it, and we could call it the P150 MikeC mod :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:49 am 
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JVM wrote:
Thanks for the tip with drive bay inversion.

Mike, have you thought of making your elastic things available as a replacement for original Antec o-rings? I would feel much more secure knowing you did it, and we could call it the P150 MikeC mod :)

I dunno... I'm not sure I want my name to be associated with... a piece of elastic that has a knot in it.

Surely you don't mean you feel incapable of tying a knot like this? :wink: :lol: :lol:

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:59 am 
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JVM wrote:

Thanks for getting us the part number, but your description of these o-rings has changed from the quality assurance above to "Buna (decent all around, probably sufficient -- temp range -30f to 230f)
part # 9452k166 -- $11.75 for 50 (this is what I used, as we had them in stock)"

We are going from "I guarantee you won't have another failure if you replace the stock bands with a good o-ring."

To: "Buna (decent all around, probably sufficient -- temp range -30f to 230f)"

Probably sufficient is not as reassuring as "I guarantee . . ."

Having said that, I don't want to appear ungrateful for the time you put in finding us that part number, I just don't understand why your description changed so dramatically.


Let me clarify that a bit. The reason for my change is that I had assumed that I had used a the Viton style o-ring, which is what we generally use in our tool production, and from experience I have found to be nearly indestructable. When I checked the part numbers today, I realized what we had in stock, in that size was Buna, which I have less experience with. That said, I'm not running out to order the Viton or PTFE version myself, as Buna is still a damn tough industrial quality o-ring, but if I was already placing an order, I would personally buy the Viton, because 10 is plenty and I don't need an extra 44 o-rings sitting around. Actually, given that I only use 1 drive, I'd probably spring for the PTFE.
:D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:34 am 
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zhenya wrote:
JVM wrote:

Thanks for getting us the part number, but your description of these o-rings has changed from the quality assurance above to "Buna (decent all around, probably sufficient -- temp range -30f to 230f)
part # 9452k166 -- $11.75 for 50 (this is what I used, as we had them in stock)"

We are going from "I guarantee you won't have another failure if you replace the stock bands with a good o-ring."

To: "Buna (decent all around, probably sufficient -- temp range -30f to 230f)"

Probably sufficient is not as reassuring as "I guarantee . . ."

Having said that, I don't want to appear ungrateful for the time you put in finding us that part number, I just don't understand why your description changed so dramatically.


Let me clarify that a bit. The reason for my change is that I had assumed that I had used a the Viton style o-ring, which is what we generally use in our tool production, and from experience I have found to be nearly indestructable. When I checked the part numbers today, I realized what we had in stock, in that size was Buna, which I have less experience with. That said, I'm not running out to order the Viton or PTFE version myself, as Buna is still a damn tough industrial quality o-ring, but if I was already placing an order, I would personally buy the Viton, because 10 is plenty and I don't need an extra 44 o-rings sitting around. Actually, given that I only use 1 drive, I'd probably spring for the PTFE.
:D


Thanks for the clarification. Are you sure the Viton would fit (diameter and length)?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:39 am 
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JVM wrote:
Thanks for the clarification. Are you sure the Viton would fit (diameter and length)?


Yes, the AS568A # 237 is a standardization number, so any o-ring of size AS568A # 237 will be the same physical dimensions, but can be made of varying materials.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:59 am 
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zhenya wrote:
JVM wrote:
Thanks for the clarification. Are you sure the Viton would fit (diameter and length)?


Yes, the AS568A # 237 is a standardization number, so any o-ring of size AS568A # 237 will be the same physical dimensions, but can be made of varying materials.


Thanks again. Quite frankly, Antec should also thank you as I was about to give up on the P150, but I placed my order for Viton--price is no big deal and I'll have extras for my RAID setup--and the future once again has the P150 as my choice for the other system I'm building.

zhenya has saved the day--thanks!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:22 pm 
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no problem. glad to help! :D


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 Post subject: Replacement rings on back order
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:21 pm 
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Well I contacted Antec regarding replacements and apparently they have the rubber bands on back-order :D

I must say I agree with others' views that the P150 has turned out to be a little bundle of hurt in some ways (but then that happens with things that are a little more cutting edge).

Anyway it would have been enough to turn me off Antec for a while but at least their support has been very good.

Btw, I did not notice a major change* when I started using the draws instead, so I might just stick to them.

-------------
*Seek noise is noticeably louder without the bands but idle noise is, if anything, less with the draws than with the bands**. Personally I am not too bothered with seek noise, I find idle noise qualities to be more intrusive (IMHO).

**Maybe when you have more than 1 HDD they can reinforce each others harmonics on suspension?


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement rings on back order
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:34 pm 
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credible wrote:
Well I contacted Antec regarding replacements and apparently they have the rubber bands on back-order :D

I must say I agree with others' views that the P150 has turned out to be a little bundle of hurt in some ways (but then that happens with things that are a little more cutting edge).

Anyway it would have been enough to turn me off Antec for a while but at least their support has been very good.

Btw, I did not notice a major change* when I started using the draws instead, so I might just stick to them.

-------------
*Seek noise is noticeably louder without the bands but idle noise is, if anything, less with the draws than with the bands**. Personally I am not too bothered with seek noise, I find idle noise qualities to be more intrusive (IMHO).

**Maybe when you have more than 1 HDD they can reinforce each others harmonics on suspension?


Maybe the next step to lessen idle noise using bands would be installing HDD's in an enclosure and then sticking them into the bands. :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:49 am 
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We're checking on this, ie going through support calls/tickets to see how much of an issue this really is. In addition to checking samples here.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:58 pm 
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It's been awhile since I've posted here (1-2 years?).

Anyways, I picked up a P150 from Fry's over the weekend since they were on sale for $129+tax.

However, I was concerned because I noticed Fry's has had this P150 "batch" (they had about 15-20) since Oct/Nov (I saw the shipping label on the pallet).

Anyhow, first thing I did was open it and do a test on the PS: DOA. Sad. Now, I'm hearing about this?

Someone said it's cutting edge but I don't buy that... maybe for the Power Supply but not the band suspensions. I've been using this technique for a couple of years now (drive suspension).

So, should I deal with the PS replacement with Antec and possibly slap in a different PS.. what are the good ones these days? Seasonic?

Anyways, I'm still debating on whether to return the whole P150 back to Fry's but hard to do even with the $129 price tag.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:39 pm 
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Dru --

1. Get the PSU replaced
2. Do clothing elastic loop replacements for the o-rings; they're better than o-rings anyway. It'll cost you a buck.

IMO, the PSU & rubber ring issues don't change the strong basics of the case. Aside from the nice hinged bezel, filter, front intake setup, good 120mm fan exhaust, etc... where else can you get a built-in 3-bay HDD elastic suspension rack?

Welcome back, btw. You last posted 19 Aug 2003. :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:32 pm 
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MikeC wrote:
2. Do clothing elastic loop replacements for the o-rings; they're better than o-rings anyway. It'll cost you a buck.


Just wondering, where or what kind of store can you get these clothing elastic?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:53 pm 
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A place you've probably never been before ... a sewing/textiles store. Or, if you're embarrassed to show your face at Fanny's Fabrics, your local Walmart probably stocks it.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:09 pm 
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Haha, thanks.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:21 pm 
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Canadian tire has them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:59 pm 
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MikeC wrote:
Also, for those who are seeing red about P150 flaws, yes, I agree this is not good, but it's also very easy to protect against.


Please don't take this as an attack on you Mike, but I don't think this is good enough on Antec's part. The P150 is supposed to be high quality case (in Australia, the P180 costs $215, P150 is $259). Even taking into account the bundled PSU, it is an expensive case.

The main thing that caught my eye about the P150 (and I suspect quite a few of the members here as well) was the rubber band suspension for the HD. Finally, someone brought out a case with the best sound HD dampening technology (hehe, if we can call it that).

To say that we need to protect against a probable rubber band failure implies either a lack of proper design or no quality assurance checks at Antec. For $259, I should be darn able to twist my rubber bands and put my HD in them. Finished. I shouldn't have to worry about taking extra steps to protect them.

Your clothing elastic bands look much superior to the rubber bands. And I can attest to their indestructability. I have one hanging off my keychain for almost 2 years and it's not even fraying.

And I wouldn't classify it as a small issue as well - I don't think I'll enjoy the horror of hearing my HD crashing on the bottom of the case and then seeing a BSOD (I know a little far fetched, but everone seems to warn against even dropping a HD even a few inches).

My 2 cents.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:04 am 
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Brewinski makes a germane point; imagine a business bought a P150 and used it to house their main computer with all their client records and accounts and whatnot inside- if the rubber bands snapped and irreparably damaged the hard drive(s) containing critical business information, wouldn't the business have a strong case (no pun intended) for suing Antec for consequential damages?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:58 am 
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Imagine a business that bought the P150 instead of a Titan 550 :P

I think the P150 was built borrowing ideas from SPCR and was more of an enthusiast thing. Would anyone with mission critical data suspend their hard drives at all?

The snapping cords are a definitely a disappointment yes. They shouldn't have snapped. More research should have been put to ensure the cord can last under a certain amount of stress in a certain temperature range for a certain amount of time. I would be pretty pissed if I lost my HDD due to ill-engineered o-rings. I'm pretty sure Antec is stressed over this P150 issue (PSU, now o-rings) so let's see how they cope with their "mistake".


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