Silent PC? Antec, Raven or something else?

krosan · Post by **krosan** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:21 am

Hey,

I read the beginners guide but I'm still kind of puzzled on which case is the best in terms of noise.

I'm looking for the following pointers in a case (most important on top):

1. Low noise (high insulation)
2. Decent cooling for a gaming rig
3. Enough expansion possibility for HDDs (could go up to 5 or more HDDs)
4. No lightshow (a window is ok if it isn't letting any light out)
5. Easy mounting of HDDs
6. Decent design (sober, no transformer-like plastic monster)

I plan on using my current hardware of my gaming pc for a HTPC (but in a normal case). I want to put my pc next to my tv screen so I can stream HD movies to it. That's why I can't have much light coming out of it, and it *certainly* can't make a lot of noise. All the HDD's will make a lot of noise if not isolated by dampers so that's a necessity.

Can any of you experts help me out on this subject? I've been looking for a Raven RV01 or RV02, and Antec 192 and Antec Solo, but I don't know which is better.
Also, my budget goes from 0 to 300â‚¬.

Thanks in advance!

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:40 am

Greetings and welcome to SPCR,

If you really are going to have 5 hard drives, then I'd go for an Antec P182/3, or if you can stay below 4 hard drives, then I'd use the Solo.

krosan · Post by **krosan** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:48 am

You wouldn't go for the new 192/3 ?
And Solo has better noise performance?

Thanks by the way for your reply

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:05 am

Hi,

The only issue with the 192/3 is if the large side fan is not already quiet enough, you'll have a hard time replacing it. The Solo's hard drive suspension (for up to 3 drives) is great if any of your hard drives are whiny and/or vibrate. The silicon grommets used for the 4 drive set up in the Solo, and in the P182/3 (and P192/3?) is good up to a point.

I think the Solo is a better size, and it is certainly less complicated, and simpler is very often better.

danimal · Post by **danimal** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:40 am

how long is the video card? if it's the full 10.5" long, make sure that it'll fit in the solo... you can get it into the p183, but you may have to remove the center drive bay, and use a drive bay converter in the upper slots.

those ravens look very interesting, how does the pricing compare to the p183 in your country?

cordis · Post by **cordis** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:17 pm

Well, one case I picked up a while ago and have had a lot of sucess with is the Coolermaster Cosmos 1000. It has built in case insulation, no side windows, a bay for 6 hard drives with little trays with rubber grommets for suspension (or it's easy to add elastic suspension if you need it), a bunch of fans to keep the internals cool (although you'll want to replace the coolermaster fans with some quieter ones, the cm fans are crap). I like how the design looks, it's distinctive without being gaudy, and the handles are great for moving the case around on carpet and picking it up to do work on it. As far as keeping things cool goes, the case has a lot of room for big heat sinks, I have a Scythe Mugen 2 in mine now. Cooling for video cards seems adequate, I have dual gtx 260s in mine and the fans haven't spun up to high noise levels that I've noticed. (And I'm running Folding@Home on them constantly, so they're always under high load.) Of course, if you want to go with a single card and a 3rd party vga cooler, you should have plenty of room for that. All in all, I've really fallen in love with the case, it might be a good way to go for you too.

krosan · Post by **krosan** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:35 am

The Raven RV01 is priced around 200â‚¬, just like the Coolermaster Cosmos 1000. The new Raven RV02 is surprisingly priced at 140â‚¬. The 183 costs about 120 to 150â‚¬.

Does anyone know how the Cosmos compares to the Antec Solo or the 183?

I'll be buying a top-notch high end graphics card which HDMI support to be able to make my HTPC complete, so I guess I'll need the space for it, AND also the space to put around 5 HDDs.

cordis · Post by **cordis** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:34 pm

Well, comparisons are always a little tough. I'm surprised the Cosmos seems to be more expensive over there than it is here. The 183 would be the safe choice, but it would possibly limit your choice of 'top-notch high end graphics card'. You could definitely pull it off in a Raven RV01 or a Cosmos, but I think the Raven is probably more pure performance oriented, while the Cosmos is more silence oriented. Don't know much about the RV02. The Raven does have the interesting orientation change, but it seems like that would really only pay off if you're really pushing the performance. Eh, I dunno, check out some pictures, see which one fits with your decor better?

ascl · Post by **ascl** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:31 pm

I have a Cosmos 1000 and I really wouldn't recommend it to anybody. It has poor airflow, especially over the HDDs, so they will run warm if you have 5 or 6 crammed in there.

Doing wiring neatly in there is very hard, as there is a support column running down the back, which doesn't allow room for cables to run from the mobo to the hdd's at the back -- unless you cut the insulating foam off.

It may well be quieter than the Raven, but I am pretty sure the raven will have better cooling. Antec 183 is probably a good choice too.

cordis · Post by **cordis** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:07 pm

Are you using the hard drive cage fan mount? I stuck that on immediately, and I haven't had any trouble. Although I also don't use the little drive boxes, I have them soft mounted with velcro, so they're right in the airflow. That seems to keep things pretty cool. I also have cables running from the motherboard to the back of the hard drive cage, I haven't noticed a problem routing cables there. It is a little tricky running the main power supply cable around behind the motherboard, but if you cut off the mesh holding the cable in a round shape and turn it into more of a ribbon it works ok. So I dunno, seems ok to me, but your mileage may vary, I guess.

ascl · Post by **ascl** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:28 pm

I am using the fan mount on the bottom, as the GPU is hot, and I can't get another fan mount here. Maybe I should screw the bottom fan in (I need to remove the bottom plastic to do that I think?) and use the fan mount above the drives.

Suspending the hdd's is a good idea, it should allow a little more breathing room in there. I have no idea how you manage to close the right side if you are routing the main (well any really) power cables over that hump!

Also, I have very high ambient temps here, so small airflow issues are very noticeable. I am sure this case works for some people, it just seems harder than it should be to work with IMO.

zxcjason · Post by **zxcjason** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:16 am

The P183 is probably the safe choice. The Solo is a bit too small for for a gaming rig (depends how big you video card is of course). But the P183 probably has better air flow than the Solo.

You might not be able to run a 10.5" card in a P183 if you want to use the mid chamber fan. I have a 9.5" card, and the power adapter is at the end of the card. After plugging them in the adapters are literally lodged between the fan of the card, I can barely fit them in. So if your card is 10.5" and the power connectors are at the end of the card, you won't be able to use the fan.

I have the P183 with a 4870, and I can attest that with getting rid of the Antec fans and putting quiet fans on all the locations it runs pretty cool and quiet.

EsaT · Post by **EsaT** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:54 am

krosan wrote:I read the beginners guide but I'm still kind of puzzled on which case is the best in terms of noise.

There's no single optimal case for all needs.
Lot depends on amount of components which are put in because in addition to direct physical conflicts between components too cramped case is also challenge to cooling and getting cables out of airflows path becomes also harder when free space becomes smaller. Also there's working space aspect, is it enough to have space for hands of Chinese child worker or do you want to fit also own hand into case when components are in.
If it's going to be your primary gaming PC (which will get updated occasionally) then there's notable space requirements for graphics card if you want easy working inside case.

Then are you ready to do some lining for making case quieter (doesn't help in open leaky cases) or do you want just "drop parts in" quiet case?

If wanting later then Antec P-serie has best vibration resisting and noise containing construction.
P18x is just rather small, especially if you want more than four HDDs:
http://techgage.com/viewimg/?img=/revie ... 182_35.jpg
(vertical position soft mounting in lower bay seems to be able to disturb performance of some HDDs greatly when head movement hits the right frequency)
Thank's to E-ATX depth P193 has lot more space:
http://www.overclockersonline.net/image ... e/an35.jpg
But there's noise hole for graphics cards thanks to side fan and in that new door of P183/193 styling has dropped to sewer level:
http://www.overclockersonline.net/image ... e/an36.jpg
Hardly something I would want into home's gaming/multimedia center.

3. Enough expansion possibility for HDDs (could go up to 5 or more HDDs)
4. No lightshow (a window is ok if it isn't letting any light out)
5. Easy mounting of HDDs
6. Decent design (sober, no transformer-like plastic monster)

If you're ready to do mass damping then Lian Li has some more or less spacious cases with silencing friendly feature set...
Ironically one of their most spacious cases with good configurability is also their cheapest full tower.

krosan · Post by **krosan** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:38 am

After reading all your posts, this is my current idea of the specific cases:

P183:
- not much room for graphics card
- fans need to be replaced with quieter ones
+ good airflow
+ silicon grommets
+ decent look

P193:
Same as 183, but:
- side fan is hard to replace
- pretty ugly

Solo:
- not much room for graphics card
- not much room for HDDs
+ great HDD suspension, silicon grommets
+ decent look, no window

Cosmos:
- poor airflow without extra fan (=extra noise)
- hard to wire
- fans need to be replaced with quieter ones
+ quiet
+ case insulation
+ great HDD suspension, silicon grommets
+ decent look, no window

Lian Li PC-A71 B:
+ spacious
+ easy installation
+ gives the possibility to mass damp
- still needs a lot of work to insulate
- fans need to be replaced with quieter ones

Does this look right to you guys?
And if so, wouldn't the Cosmos seem the better choice? Although ascl is strongly against it :/

Thanks in advance!

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:16 am

Don't dismiss the Raven or Raven2. They're very quiet. For high airflow (ie, good cooling) with low noise, they may actually be better than any other cases.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/silverstone-raven

krosan · Post by **krosan** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:31 am

Alright, I'll have another look at it. But I have to say that the Raven1 looks like a transformer machine, which is not really what I want for my home theatre setup... The Raven2 seems to look a whole lot better, but it's not that good if I'm not mistaken.

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:56 am

krosan wrote:The Raven2 seems to look a whole lot better, but it's not that good if I'm not mistaken.

I think you're mistaken... if you're referring to airflow/noise. We just got one for testing and it's probably better than the raven1. Review will be be a couple week -- lots of other things to finish up first.

jimmyzaas · Post by **jimmyzaas** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:37 am

Will you guys also review the new Fortress? That looks like a very good alternative to the Raven. (More hdd space)

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:51 am

jimmyzaas wrote:Will you guys also review the new Fortress? That looks like a very good alternative to the Raven. (More hdd space)

AFAIK, there's only the FT01, and it was reviewed --
http://www.silentpcreview.com/silverstone_fortress_ft01

EsaT · Post by **EsaT** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:17 pm

krosan wrote:P183:
+ decent look

P183 has same ugly front as P193... IMO compared to door that bulge of P193's side fan is minor thing.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article945-page2.html

Lian Li PC-A71 B:
+ gives the possibility to mass damp
- still needs a lot of work to insulate

Combination mat is good for doing mass damping and adding absorption at the same time. (one packet enough for sides, two for covering most of the case)
Nicely that shop has also SlipStreams at very affordable price.

With included soft mounting and thorough lining of case (weight still ~12kg) I can't feel vibration in case panels and also seek noises stay well inside with door closed. (4 WD Blacks, few WD Blues)
And while in open fronted CM Stacker Nexus@1000rpm sounded nearly nasty regardless where it was positioned now if I turn CPU heatsink's SlipStream M to ~1140rpm (Zalman MFC-2 doesn't give full 12V) there's only smooth airflow noise coming out when listening from similar distance in front of the case... That why I'm now categorizing every case with any direct noise escape path strictly as noisy: You just have to have lot quieter parts with those... which is just plain bad when going for high performance&lot of components without unnecessary noise.
With my current configuration/fan speed settings it's of course no ultra quiet/silent but then again for what I would even need PC in bedroom? ...which is quiet enough to very easily hear resting heart beat if I just turn so that pillow is pressing both ear and area of neck with veins. For living room it would be perfectly quiet enough.
Also clear and simple laminar airflow from front bottom towards upper rear works well for keeping air going where it needs to be without leaving dead spots... In most cases top exhausts are just too far from components generating most of the heat and more like distraction for airflow. (one user reported 10C CPU temp drop in Cosmos after building airflow guide which forced top fans to draw their air from above CPU heatsink... which would be logical if using heatsink passively)

And if so, wouldn't the Cosmos seem the better choice?

Whole HDD cage system of Cosmos looks like in need of removing for getting somewhere in cooling (seen also other complaints about multiple HDD cooling) and I don't think you can just take it off after opening some screws like in Lian Li A71 which uses rivets only in basic frame.

MikeC wrote:
jimmyzaas wrote:Will you guys also review the new Fortress? That looks like a very good alternative to the Raven. (More hdd space)
AFAIK, there's only the FT01...

FT02 was announced at the same time with Raven 2.
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=18719
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/silver ... ,7974.html

But HDD spacing of Silverstone is so tight that I would leave every second bay empty with more than two HDDs...

ascl · Post by **ascl** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:30 pm

To remove the HDD cage on the Cosmos you will need to de-rivet or just cut the whole (half?) thing out. The Cosmos S seems like it fixes the airflow and cable run issues I had with it.

That said... there are no perfect cases! I wish there was, I really do, but I am yet to find one that is even close. So, whatever you chose, the chances are you will have to deal with some issues. Its up to you to figure out which issues you can deal with, either with some modding or just ignoring.

My respect for the Cosmos has increased since I added WCing. Sticking a rad in the top is easy, and obviously it helps the cooling issues I had. Currently I have only 3 hdd's (+ an SSD mounting on behind the motherboard tray), and a fan mounted on the side of the HDD cage, and the hdd temps are okay, about 10-14c above ambient (so 40-44c) -- without the fan and 4 hdd's, they were 10c higher.

The HDD cage would actually fit 2 more drives in it, if the sides of the case weren't rounded.... or a fan would fit there too, if you did some cutting, but as is, 6 is the most you will fit, but I'd expect the temp's would be pretty bad.

I wonder if the ATCS 840 could be padded and made more silent? That is the case I was looking at to replace my Cosmos.

EDIT: Having to replace the fans is hardly a negative... its more like a constant!

cordis · Post by **cordis** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:58 pm

Well yeah, the 40 to 44 range is probably about what I'm seeing in my cosmos as well, so that seems pretty normal. And really, compared to some other cases I have, that's pretty cool for hard drives. Those mATX cube cases, damn, drives can get hot in there. As far as cpu cooling in one of those goes, there's enough space to put in super overkill heat pipe ones, so that's what I do, and it works great for me. But really, EsaT and ascl are right, there is no one perfect case. For me, the big feature for the cosmos are the handles, the way it slides across carpet and is easy to pick up make it great for me, it's a case I can slide over to the side under the desk or lift out and work on as I need to. The silencing features were just a bonus, but if it didn't have those I would have figured something out. But I've been able to find ways to use most of the cases I have in relatively silent configurations, it's just some are more work than others. I am kind of intrigued by the Raven 2 though, since MikeC chimed in about it, that sounds like a very nice case.....

ascl · Post by **ascl** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:27 pm

I definitely like the idea of a rotated layout. Seems like it should offer good air flow, however, I have no idea how well it works in practice.

cordis: Before I added the fan, my HDD's were hitting 50+, which was freaking me out a bit!

krosan · Post by **krosan** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:53 am

The FT02 and RV02 look awesome to be honest!

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/Gallery/147 ... ses.aspx/1

EsaT · Post by **EsaT** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:27 pm

ascl wrote:The Cosmos S seems like it fixes the airflow and cable run issues I had with it.

Like I said really originally from that case... It also fixes the "problem" of not leaking sound.

I wonder if the ATCS 840 could be padded and made more silent? That is the case I was looking at to replace my Cosmos.

As overall it's quite solid without big leaks... except top... Which also means internal airflow is harder to keep in control with those big fans far from hot components so maybe better config for water cooling than air cooling. Would like more from that case if it had holed top as accessory like Lian Li.
But would keep it as the best CM at the moment.
This nowadays must have fashion gimmick: tool-less wrap around HDD tray systems just are never good acoustically. HAF uses same and some actually listening users haven't found it quiet with performance aimed HDDs... but at least there's some decent slots for airflow unlike in Silverstones.

EDIT: Having to replace the fans is hardly a negative... its more like a constant!

More like the ability to easily change fans is positive thing... You can't get acoustically good fans in many sizes and manufacturers are even less interested to find such fans.

ascl wrote:I definitely like the idea of a rotated layout. Seems like it should offer good air flow

That should guarantee airflow to graphics cards... but then again just who "noise aware" would want many of these crappily engineered cards consuming 50W for doing nothing.
Also device bays are very close and using them will mean lot of cables protruding to motherboard area.
And looks like there's that mandatory bling bling ping pong toy part in there... Just why they can't make serious looking cases nowadays?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/Gallery/147 ... ses.aspx/2

krosan · Post by **krosan** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:39 am

I've been looking a lot at the Raven RV02 and the Fortress FT02 (both from Silverstone).

This is what I resulted in:

....................................................RV01 .........RV02.........FT01.........FT02
Size (liters)..................................114.............69...............51.............65
Standard ATX / Extended ATX......E.................S.................S...............S
HDD slots.....................................6.................3.................7...............5

I think I might be going for the FT02!
Too bad I have to wait until September

ascl · Post by **ascl** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:45 am

FT02 is a nice looking case... its aluminium however, so you may need to weigh down the sides with some padding (for weight more than anything) to stop it vibrating.

Let us know how it goes!

krosan · Post by **krosan** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:28 am

ascl wrote:FT02 is a nice looking case... its aluminium however, so you may need to weigh down the sides with some padding (for weight more than anything) to stop it vibrating.

Let us know how it goes!

Hey ascl,

That's the good thing about FT02. Opposed to the all-aluminium FT01, the FT02 has an aluminum unibody frame and steel body. So nice designy outside due to the aluminium, but anti-vibrating steel on the inside

ascl · Post by **ascl** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:28 am

Ooh I didn't know that... nice! Make sure you post pics!

krosan · Post by **krosan** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:44 am

I will once the case is released. Still not being shipped :<

To get back to my initial post, I'll clarify my decision:

1. Low noise (high insulation)
The RV02 and FT02 (also the RV01 and FT01) are extremely quiet due to very little direct pathways for the sound to escape from inside the system to the user (unless you are standing right on top of it).
The HDD cage has grommets and the case is built out of steel. The main fans are 180mm and certainly are very quiet because they do not need to turn that fast.

2. Decent cooling for a gaming rig
The 90Â° turn improves the hot airflow, also no components are in the way of the natural airflow from bottom to top.
The HDD case could prove to be a little hard to cool. Future reviews would have to elaborate on that issue.

3. Enough expansion possibility for HDDs (could go up to 5 or more HDDs)
The FT02 offers room for 5 HDDs, so that fits my needs.

4. No lightshow (a window is ok if it isn't letting any light out)
The case won't have a window (although there might surely come one later which has).

5. Easy mounting of HDDs
Hot-swappable HDD case, really easy to use.

6. Decent design (sober, no transformer-like plastic monster)
The FT02 offers a more sober and luxurious design than the Ravens. A bit too much of an Apple look and feel but okey...

Do you guys agree with this? At least I do

Silent PC? Antec, Raven or something else?

Silent PC? Antec, Raven or something else?

another idea

tough call

hd fan?

new cases

Re: new cases