Team MacOSX is no longer a threat.

Plutronics · Post by **Plutronics** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:03 pm

Now why would we do a thing like follow your threads ( following your sorry butts is bad enough.

)
ya'll need to work on your Aerodynamics , you kickin' up some Dust , cuz
As my Boss Likes to remind me , be careful that the toes you step on today are not connected to the butt you'll have to kiss tomorrow

Besides , Were else have we to go when our home site is down ???
But there is an up side to all this:
Pre Plutronics Registering here = 89k PPW
Post Plutronics Posting here = 104.9K PPW
So I figure you owe me 5k ! ( 4.9998734 on a PC )

Fold On Brothers
( I just Brought a Dual G4 on line today !! )
See Ya
Pluts

haysdb · Post by **haysdb** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:40 pm

Pluts, how many points a week is a Dual G4 worth? How about a G5? Ballpark numbers.

I suspect the G4 and G5 processors don't "point" as well due to the lack of SSE instructions?

We are grateful for you coming over and putting a face to the enemy.

Maybe I'll come over and register at your site and return the favor.

David

mas92264 · Post by **mas92264** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:53 pm

be careful that the toes you step on today are not connected to the butt you'll have to kiss tomorrow

Very good, Pluts. Had a little experience with this myself.

Dual G4. Hmm. Why not a G5? Just curious.

M

kai · Post by **kai** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:07 pm

I suspect the G4 and G5 processors don't "point" as well due to the lack of SSE instructions?

G4 doesn't have SSE, but it does have altivec. AFAIK, Altivec is a lot more powerful than SSE. So, if FAH is altivec aware a G4 or G5 should spank P4's and XP's

haysdb · Post by **haysdb** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:20 pm

IS FAH "altivec aware"?

I read a post over at the MacOS X forum that said "they are working on it", and that post was pretty old, but did anything come of that project?

David

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:25 pm

Ayup, I think they did get Altivec working for the Mac client. That was probably part of the reason the Mac teams picked up in production awhile ago.

haysdb · Post by **haysdb** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:48 pm

Here is a post at Folding-community.org dated October 31, 2003 announcing FahCore_78.exe, "optimized for G5".

It would be interesting to see a graph of Team MacOS X production in points overlayed with the number of active CPU's, to see if their production spiked following the release of the new core.

Some benchmarks I saw indicated the new core offered a 2x or better speed increase.

David

Plutronics · Post by **Plutronics** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 4:58 am

Hey PCeers
I think 1200 to 1500 PPW for a dual 2.0GHz G5 is about right.
One must always remember that the farther you get from a 500 MHz selli (t) the more radical the points swing. and we are Far Out , Man. As for a G4 , I have 2 duals now and 4 singles and I couldn't tell ya ! It is something I've never tracked , other than looking at my total PPW on the various Site pages. I'll look at a few FAH logs and get back with you in a day ....
Weeeeeeeeee neeeeeesssss
( that wasn't directed at any one or group , just a general ... expletive )
and You better check haysdb for Feas and Ticks
HE HE HE HE
Pluts

Mustang Mac · Post by **Mustang Mac** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:45 am

Ohairy1 was a member of Team MacOS X at one time. He has since moved on to the mothership team.

But he gathers a lot of data regarding Mac performance on F@h work units and cores. The links below give some indication of the speed up involved with the Altivec aware core and the speed up on the "antiquated" G3 Macs. Fold on comrades!

http://forum.folding-community.org/viewtopic.php?t=6136
http://forum.folding-community.org/viewtopic.php?t=6121

haysdb · Post by **haysdb** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 6:17 am

Plutronics wrote:You better check haysdb for Feas and Ticks

Yeah, I've been playing in the neighbors yard again!!!

David

wgragg · Post by **wgragg** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:57 am

haysdb wrote:
Plutronics wrote:You better check haysdb for Feas and Ticks
Yeah, I've been playing in the neighbors yard again!!!

David

Well, I am glad it is only feas. Can you imagine how bad it would be if you had fleas?

I got the most respect for Mac's when I saw a screensaver on one that said, "We are Mac. Watch us squeak!"

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:58 pm

Hello SPRC F@H Team:

We should not get too overconfident -- the Mac OSX team has a higher daily total that we do, and their weekly is just *barely* lower than ours, so -- we need some more active folders!

wgragg · Post by **wgragg** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:05 pm

Well I'm trying to help. Just added 4 processors since yesterday, and will add more over the next few days.

I'm trying to recruit my daughter to borg her machine too.

Wendell

haysdb · Post by **haysdb** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:14 pm

It's definitely "neck and neck". We are coming off the three highest producing days in the history of our team, and still we have managed only to match pace with our worthy pursuers. They outnumber us by a good margin, and they draw from a larger "pool" of potential folders than we do. The release of an optimized Gromacs core two months ago gave them a huge boost. The cards are stacked in their favor.

Overconfident? Not me!

If you are not presently Folding, join SilentPCReview Folding@Home (a.k.a. "us") vs. Team MacOS X (a.k.a. "them") !!!

David

CoolGav · Post by **CoolGav** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:53 am

wgragg wrote:Well I'm trying to help. Just added 4 processors since yesterday, and will add more over the next few days.

I'm trying to recruit my daughter to borg her machine too.

Wendell

For a time I thought I might hold you off until March, now for the first time in my Folding career will I get passed

Keep going Wendell!

wgragg · Post by **wgragg** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:08 am

Thanks. Nothing personal here. Just trying to do what I can to hold off the Mac plague!

Actually, I am impressed with what those G5's can do with the optimized gromacs. I guess I will have to finally concede that Mac's are real computers......Just joking guys.

Wendell

Plutronics · Post by **Plutronics** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 12:08 am

MAC ATTACK !! and we aren't talking Golden Arches here either
Impressive slope guys:
http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/ ... amID=31574
Keep pushing them puppies.... keep them doggies folding , rawhides !
ya'll are beginning to look a bit tired , pushing all that wind ahead of you , while we're back here in the draft..... There's a nice rest stop up yonder a piece.....
Do them silent PCs smoke just as Quietly ?? keep pushing them doggies

( opps , I may have crossed the line on that one ,sorry )
would you like a look at what you are up against ?? if you dare ??
skip the first 8 posts and jump on down to the Quiet One:
Posted: Jan. 15 2004,19:39
Your Demise

Pluts

haysdb · Post by **haysdb** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:06 am

Our demise is that $27,000 16-processor box?

For $27,000 I could expand my farm to over 100 nodes. Unfortunately it would draw 10 Kilowatts of power, and generate one gawd awful amount of heat. It'd also require several people full time just to keep it running. One person would be kept busy just rebooting individual nodes that freeze up because of the "SSE Bug".

Obviously that little box with the 8 dual G5 X-Servers is not targeted toward the hobbyest folder with a 3 figure budget.

David

CoolGav · Post by **CoolGav** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:32 am

I wonder how much noise those 40mm screamers push out for 16 G5 CPUs. Even enclosing it in a rack can't stop the noise - air has to get in and out or they'll overheat.

I know a guy with a G5. When he was about to turn it on he said we'd all be impressed with how you couldn't hear it. Well, I could, pretty impressive nonetheless, seeing that it was well concealed, but Apple should try some quiet HDs next.

I haven't got anything against mac's, I just prefer an umbrella.

haysdb · Post by **haysdb** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:58 am

The XServe's each have 8 fans, for a total of 64 in that little box. In theory they each run slower and therefore quieter than fewer fans, but it really is hard to move much air quietly with a 40mm fan. I think in the case of that 16 cpu box, quiet is going to be a relative term.

David

nap_loaf · Post by **nap_loaf** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:01 am

The thread about our demise wrote:
The PC on the left shows that if you try hard enough you might cram everything into the average PC case. The Power Mac G5 was designed from the inside out so that the case and internal components were meant to go together.

LOL... they didn't make even the slightest effort to organise cables in the PC. That said, I do hate 4-wire power cables and Molex connectors.

haysdb · Post by **haysdb** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:33 am

Someone needs to Photoshop that and add one of Ralph Hutters PC's to the right of the Mac. That said, Apple did an incredible job with the inside of the G5. If I owned one of those, I'd leave the side off so I could admire the inside. They obviously anticipated that with the formed plexiglas side panel. The G5 belongs in the Museum of Modern Art. I want one. No way that's going to happen any time soon, but it's definitely a desireable product.

Question: where is the power supply?

Second question: what's inside the blocks marked G5? The cpu's, I know, but cpu's are tiny and those boxes are big. Any pictures of the INSIDE of one of those blocks?

David

Plutronics · Post by **Plutronics** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:02 am

Hey Fellow Folders !

haysdb:
Only 27K ! Nothing that a second mortgage wouldn't cover... for a pair of em... and , What ? Your team has Hobbyist Folders ? We All Professional F'ers Over Here ( that's an abbreviation for Folders , not what you are thinking)

NeXT up at bat , CollGav:
These are the new 90 nm G5s not the old 135 nm G5s . IBM is producing the new 90 nm process G5s at 2.2 to 2.6 GHz ! and ... and ... Jobs promised us 3.0 GHz by years end . He wouldn't kid about a thing like that

And Back to haysdb:
Hummmmm ... You want a QUIET computer that SCREAMS ? Thats like silent sex , not nearly as much fun as rocking the nicknacks off the shelf and waking the neighbors in the process

nap_loaf:
Yup , and Yup ( N. American for " Yes I Agree " )

haysdb revisited:
you are starting to make me work for these now....
The power cord goes in at the very bottom of the back, So probably the PS is located below the CPU compartment and the " Blocks Marked G5 " are :
G5 CPU / heat sink / fan / and Air Tunnel ! I couldn't find any cutaway Views....

Weeew , I'm having trouble keeping up with you all...

and now the the serious part:
Fold On !

Pluts

CoolGav · Post by **CoolGav** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 7:56 am

Nice to see IBM perfecting thier 90nm process, I hope that the new Via and Transmeta chips they producing will be available soon. What kind of voltage do they run at? What years end? I can say that I promise that AMD will release a 128 bit 50GHz CPU by the years end, without stating a year!

IMHO to get a monster like the 16CPU rack mentioned JUST FOR FOLDING is way OTT. If you want to remortgage your house to buy a few then its up to you, but I'd rather put that kind of money elsewhere.

I need several things to happen before I'd even contemplate getting an Apple Personal Computer:
a) USB/DVI KVM - nowt wrong with PS/2 on PCs, but not for Apple?
b) Either I get up to speed with Linux apps (and find that Apple release more powerful hardware for less money) or Cakewalk port SONAR to Apple OSes. Hmmm, unlikely...
c) The aforementioned price - so winning the lottery, which I don't go in for...

PS: Do you get the Mac/umbrella joke?

Plutronics · Post by **Plutronics** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:45 am

Hey CoolGav !

"by years end" implies the current year , this side the pond

What else do I do with my home equity , Leave it to my kids ? ( I was joking , well , yes , maybe.... )

a: The PS/2 is like the DVI in that it is kind of proprietary , And I don't like either. I think USB is the way to go on Slower Interfaces.
Does any one but apple use DVI ? They probably sell a lot of DVI to VGA adapters !
b: Again , I think Unix is the way of the future ( OSX is Unix ) unless you want to support bill gates . He's bad for everyone , IMHO
c: The Macs hold their value a lot longer than a PC. A year ago I bought a used 2001 model Quicksilver for $1000 ( including shipping ) and they still go for $800 - $900. Sometimes you pay for what you get , other times you pay for what you want ! Buy a Geo Metro , or a Caddy , or a Ferrari . Depending on each individuals needs/wants/etc, one will be a better deal than the other two. From your perspective , a caddy might be the only thing , but I might choose either side of that.

PS: No , I didn't get your joke , I think I heard those rubber slip on your shoe things called macs before ? could you force feed me this one time ?

And now for something totally different:
No One Expects the Folding Inquisition !
Fold On !
Pluts

mas92264 · Post by **mas92264** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:12 am

PS: Do you get the Mac/umbrella joke?

Add me to the "I don't get it either" list.

M

wgragg · Post by **wgragg** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 11:15 am

Plutronics wrote: b: Again , I think Unix is the way of the future ( OSX is Unix ) unless you want to support bill gates . He's bad for everyone , IMHO

I think that Unix may have a future in the general computing marketplace IF it can be made palatable to the general consumer and at a reasonable price. Pure Unix is above the heads of most people who buy computers and is limited mostly to the enthusiasts and certain computing professionals. Imagine the general consumer having to try to learn things like grep! I have the same issues with Linux, though it has come a long way since its early days.

Apple has done an excellent job in putting a user friendly interface on Unix, but they still suffer from the same thing they always have. - higher iniitial costs. When you add the proprietary nature of the machine, limited upgrade path, and the fact that there are not nearly as much variety in software packages as the wintel boxes, you have a machine that will stiill be relegated to a minority of the market.

Notice, I am not arguing the quality or technology, but simply the market dynamics here. Whatever you think of Gates, you have to admit he has done an excellent job of marketing and hooking a large majority of computer users to Windows. I also think that Apple is still paying for some very early mistakes, (ie, 100% profit on their early Macs....proprietary hardware, etc).

If I had the money, the choices I have in the wintel world, and the wide variety of software titles, I would switch off of Windows in a heartbeat.

Disclaimer: I haven't worked with Mac's in a few years, so if anything has changed about their upgradeability or proprietary nature, I will be glad to be corrected.

One good fold leads to another!
Wendell

haysdb · Post by **haysdb** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:23 pm

Plutronics wrote:a: The PS/2 is like the DVI in that it is kind of proprietary , And I don't like either. I think USB is the way to go on Slower Interfaces.

For some reason PS/2 connectors just won't die in the PC world. Abit tried to market a "legacy free" motherboard with only USB connectors for keyboards and mice, but it didn't fly. I have been strinctly USB with mice for a couple of years, but there are just too many problems with USB keyboards, which are not universally supported by all BIOS, and not well supported under Linux, and so on. Give it another couple of years and I think PS/2 might fade away. You know, like the floppy disk.

Does any one but apple use DVI ? They probably sell a lot of DVI to VGA adapters !

Actually, Apple's connector is called ADC (Apple Display Connector), which is proprietary to Apple. The 'PC' world and the consumer electronic industry use DVI (Digital Visual Interface). It is possible to convert between DVI and ADC with an adapter. It is not possible (or at least not practical) to convert between DVI/ADC and VGA since the former are digital connections, the later an analog connection.

I don't know precisely how ADC differs from DVI, but I believe ADC basically = DVI. The adapter is just a small thing. It may be more than a different connector, but I don't think it's a LOT more than that. I don't know why Apple didn't just adopt DVI. It may have to do with the timing. Apple may had adopted their digital interface prior to the DVI standards being set, and DVI ended up slightly different. It may be that Apple wanted to do some things that DVI, at least at the time, didn't support.

PS: No , I didn't get your joke , I think I heard those rubber slip on your shoe things called macs before ? could you force feed me this one time ?

I seem to remember that a McIntosh is some sort of hat haybe? If not, then I guess I'm not getting it either.

I have a DVI/USB 'KVM switch', but it was an expensive bugger, and just a 2-way switch.

David

peteamer · Post by **peteamer** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:48 am

The 'Mac' (note capital letter, therefore I'm not talking about the niche market marketing swindle

) is a form of (over) coat.

Hence the ref. to umberella's.

[Edit]
From Oxford English Dictionary :
Mackintosh n (also Macintosh) Brit. 1 a waterproof coat or cloak. 2 cloth waterproofed with rubber [named after C. Macintosh, Scots inventor, 1766-1843].

Commonly associated in this country with generally undesirable men, often having dubious morals and intentions i.e. flashers and 'Dirty Old Men'.

Heh Heh !!.... maybe more research was done on the name association than we thought

Or they were blessed with an inordinate insight of the future

[End Edit]

I would hazard a guess, that the rather Erudite CoolGav is from dear old Blighty.

Talking of which... Anyone remember the Sex Pistols Album (and it's full title) .... 'Never Mind The Bollocks... (Get a PC)'
and equally their film .... 'The great mac (& Rock and Roll) Swindle'

Is Jobsie really worthy of all the praise and... 'adoration' he gets?

Should not we really be applauding the marketing dept.?

Face it, either they did a great job of convincing otherwise intelligent folk....
or there are more fools in the World than I for one care to think of.

Discuss...

Pete (light blue Touch paper and retire

) Amer.

P.S. CoolGav, For God's sake don't admit to knowledge of the 'Pac-a-Mac'.... that's a completely different sort of website

Team MacOSX is no longer a threat.

G5s

Re: G5s

Re: G5s

They have a higher daily. today