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 Post subject: Proposed AM2 computer, input wanted!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:01 pm
Posts: 119
Location: California
Ok, I have been doing a lot of reading on these forum to find the information to put to put together a fairly quiet computer.

Here is what I propose:
CPU: AM2 Athon 64 X2 3800+ OEM- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6819103732
RAM:2 Gigs of DDR2-667, not really planning to do any major OCing, so I figure this is ok, but this is what I had in mind- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6820141187
MOBO: SAPPHIRE PC-AM2RD580Adv Socket AM2 ATI CrossFire Radeon Xpress 3200 ATX AMD Motherboard (I know it isn't on the recomended list...)- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6813154011
VIDEO CARD: SAPPHIRE 100189L Radeon X1900GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 VIVO- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6814102022
CPU HEATSINK: Thermalright HR-1 (open box)- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 835109132R
GPU HEATSINK: Thermalright HR-3- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6835109134
P/SU: ENERMAX Liberty ELT400AWT ATX12V 400W Power Supply http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6817194002

I am going to using this computer to play Half-Life 2 and maybe Oblivion. But I am going to be using this for CADD and Solidworks. Oh, i already have a HD- it a Seagate 160gb SATA- one of the new ones, not the quietest from what I have read, but it is not the worst. Besides it was pretty cheap. :D

I am open to any comment, suggestion, or critizisms of this build. At the current time, the cost is about $850 US (that is including XP home and a wireless card), I am aiming for a max of 900 dollars, there about. Finally I would like to know if anyone thinks that this will be able to be run totally passive, no fans! Thanks in advance of any input and advice.


-regal196


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 Post subject: Re: Proposed AM2 computer, input wanted!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:10 am
Posts: 198
Location: Southern Sweden
regal196 wrote:
Ok, I have been doing a lot of reading on these forum to find the information to put to put together a fairly quiet computer.

Here is what I propose:
CPU: AM2 Athon 64 X2 3800+ OEM- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6819103732
RAM:2 Gigs of DDR2-667, not really planning to do any major OCing, so I figure this is ok, but this is what I had in mind- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6820141187
MOBO: SAPPHIRE PC-AM2RD580Adv Socket AM2 ATI CrossFire Radeon Xpress 3200 ATX AMD Motherboard (I know it isn't on the recomended list...)- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6813154011
VIDEO CARD: SAPPHIRE 100189L Radeon X1900GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 VIVO- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6814102022
CPU HEATSINK: Thermalright HR-1 (open box)- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 835109132R
GPU HEATSINK: Thermalright HR-3- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6835109134
P/SU: ENERMAX Liberty ELT400AWT ATX12V 400W Power Supply http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6817194002

I am going to using this computer to play Half-Life 2 and maybe Oblivion. But I am going to be using this for CADD and Solidworks. Oh, i already have a HD- it a Seagate 160gb SATA- one of the new ones, not the quietest from what I have read, but it is not the worst. Besides it was pretty cheap. :D

I am open to any comment, suggestion, or critizisms of this build. At the current time, the cost is about $850 US (that is including XP home and a wireless card), I am aiming for a max of 900 dollars, there about. Finally I would like to know if anyone thinks that this will be able to be run totally passive, no fans! Thanks in advance of any input and advice.


-regal196




Yeah, seems to be a good combo.
Except for the psu. A bit too weak Wattage and too low on the Ampereage side.

Just be aware of that the X1900 cards need a psu with minimum 30 Ampere on the + 12 V rail. So your pick for a psu is pretty limited.
And it will get even more limited for Crossfire usage (38A on the 12V rail.
A X1800GTO or XT is more flexible on the psu's, as they "only" need 20A. And As I have both the X1800GTO and the X1900GT. I can say that the X1800GTO is a pretty capable card too.

This is a more suitable psu for the X1900 and stuff + future upgrades.
Considered to be quiet too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817103437

But if you choose this psu, you need a ATX power connector converter 20 pin psu 24 pin mobo, to be able to fit the AM2 mobo.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6812145002

As for beeing able to run it passive?
It depends on the cases airflow ability. I.e case fans and fan config + case itself.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:17 am 
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Location: Estonia, EU :)
CPU is rated at 65W, GPU not less - totally passive cooling is out of question (or out of your budget - Zalman TNN cases are expensive).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:01 pm
Posts: 119
Location: California
thank you for the input, is the any P/SU that would be suitable to run crossfire in the future AND have just a 120mm fan? The P/SU where?wolf posted is good, but it uses two fans. thank all again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:43 pm 
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Posts: 198
Location: Southern Sweden
regal196 wrote:
thank you for the input, is the any P/SU that would be suitable to run crossfire in the future AND have just a 120mm fan? The P/SU where?wolf posted is good, but it uses two fans. thank all again.


Oh, you wont have an easy time finding a 550W, 38A (recommended minimum for X1900 crossfire) psu with one fan!

The only that comes to mind is this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817703005

But it will cost you!

But with 610W and 49A on the +12V rail. I'll be damned if this cant run any card on the market! Or any Crossfire or SLI setup you can think of.

There is a 700W version also lol.

PC Power & Cooling is considered the "Rolls Royce" of psu's.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:23 pm 
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Posts: 3011
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
A 1900GT will not draw 30A or anything even close to that, 30A on the 12V line is 360W which is twice the power draw of a 8800GTX. It's more like 8A or something.

The enermax is more than powerful enough, but a seasonic S12 would be quieter.


Totally fanless is very unpractical, and in most cases wont sem any quieter than a very quiet setup with slow fans. Chances are you have a fridge or AC or cars outside or someting else that makes more noise than a slow fan. If you can hear the blood flowing in your ears then it might be quiet enough o consider building a fanless rig, but it takes some serious effort(or a shitload of cash).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:55 am
Posts: 5085
Location: UK
Quote:
PC Power & Cooling is considered the "Rolls Royce" of psu's.


Not as quiet as a Rolls-Royce though. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:01 pm
Posts: 119
Location: California
If what nici says it true, that good, i don't have to get the PC power and cooling P/SU, it's a bit out ofmy current price range. I was looking around and found this Silverstone P/SU-http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817256008. I remenber this P/SU had a fairly good reveiw, but can't recall how it compared to, lets say the Seasonic 430watt. Also, i see that the PC Power and Cooling is a ESP12V and the Silverstone is ATX 12V 2.2, what's difference?

Also i was wndering is one 120mm running about 800 rpm as exhast, would be enough for this set up

Thank you for all this input, thus far!

-regal196


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:44 am 
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Location: Southern Sweden
nici wrote:
A 1900GT will not draw 30A or anything even close to that, 30A on the 12V line is 360W which is twice the power draw of a 8800GTX. It's more like 8A or something.

The enermax is more than powerful enough, but a seasonic S12 would be quieter.


Totally fanless is very unpractical, and in most cases wont sem any quieter than a very quiet setup with slow fans. Chances are you have a fridge or AC or cars outside or someting else that makes more noise than a slow fan. If you can hear the blood flowing in your ears then it might be quiet enough o consider building a fanless rig, but it takes some serious effort(or a shitload of cash).




O.k.

But why does all manufacturers I have seen, say that the minimum recommended powersupply for a X1900 card, is 450W 30A on the + 12V rail. And 550W, 38 A for a X1900 Crossfire setup then?

I hope you know what will happend to a underpowered system?
Cuz I doubt that the manufacturers not telling the truth.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:21 am 
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Posts: 5085
Location: UK
Quote:
But why does all manufacturers I have seen, say that the minimum recommended powersupply for a X1900 card, is 450W 30A on the + 12V rail. And 550W, 38 A for a X1900 Crossfire setup then?


This is the CYA factor (Cover Your Ass). They overstate the requirements so that people with cheap PSU's which cannot deliver the rated power will still be able to power the cards. Also, they do not know what CPU you will be using it with, so for example if you are using it with a Prescott-based CPU you could quite easily trip the current limiter under full load. So if you know you will using more energy-efficient parts, you can get away with a smaller PSU than the manufacturers recommendations.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:34 am 
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Posts: 300
where?wolf wrote:
But why does all manufacturers I have seen, say that the minimum recommended powersupply for a X1900 card, is 450W 30A on the + 12V rail. And 550W, 38 A for a X1900 Crossfire setup then?

I hope you know what will happend to a underpowered system?
Cuz I doubt that the manufacturers not telling the truth.

Don't be naive. Remember that the manufacturers sell their products all over the world, even in some countries were people tend to be pretty litigious. Not overstating the requirements would be foolhardy and can become very expensive if someone does end up suing you.

I generally think manufacturers use a safety margin around the 50% mark when stating power requirements. So if they determine that using a quality power source they require some 300W of power, they add 50% making it 450W. This is also to protect the ignorant user from himself. If you do away with the safety margin all together, you really need to know what you are doing. Jaganath already mentioned this, but not all PSUs are created equal. There are many variations on how much load specific rails of the PSU can take and also various limits on specific combinations of rails.

The manufacturer can not be certain that the user knows how to read the power limits on each rail of the PSU correctly. So they make their recommendation selecting a powerrating that ensures that even a crappy PSU that has trouble with anything more than about 2/3 of the stated maximum load will do. As long as you stay with quality products, if you do happen to run into a situation where the PSU can't provide enough power, the system should just shutdown as the protection circuits kick in. With cheap PSUs you can't even count on the protection to work properly so you try to avoid a situation where you would run into overload.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:24 am 
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Location: California
Ok, one other question, i looked at the specs for the mobo and it said that it needs a 24 pin P/SU connector.

What is the differenct between a 24 pin and a 20+4 pin connector, and are they compatible both ways?
i.e. 20+4 pin works on a 24 pin and visa versa.

also have we decide what is the maximum amperage draw of a crossfire setup with X1900xt?

would the Silverstone 500 watt-found here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817256008 , and reviewed here- http://www.silentpcreview.com/article670-page1.html be sufficent for this system for crossfire?

thanks in advance again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:36 am 
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If you're only buying a 3800+ and not planning to overclock, then you don't need DDR2-667; stick with DDR2-533 and save some money. You won't notice any performance difference anyway; you need to be buying midrange to high-midrange X2s before you'll notice any improvement from DDR2-667 at stock speeds.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:18 am 
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Location: California
Quote:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:36 am Post subject:
If you're only buying a 3800+ and not planning to overclock, then you don't need DDR2-667; stick with DDR2-533 and save some money. You won't notice any performance difference anyway; you need to be buying midrange to high-midrange X2s before you'll notice any improvement from DDR2-667 at stock speeds.

the least expensive DDR 553 is more 6 dollars more than the DDR 667. thank you though, i didn't know that the ram would not be fully utilized with the 3800. But i am going to stay with the 667.

Quote:
Ok, one other question, i looked at the specs for the mobo and it said that it needs a 24 pin P/SU connector.

What is the differenct between a 24 pin and a 20+4 pin connector, and are they compatible both ways?
i.e. 20+4 pin works on a 24 pin and visa versa.

also have we decide what is the maximum amperage draw of a crossfire setup with X1900xt?

would the Silverstone 500 watt-found here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817256008 , and reviewed here- http://www.silentpcreview.com/article670-page1.html be sufficent for this system for crossfire?

thanks in advance again.


I need to figure out my P/SU, so any help with that would be much appreciated. [/quote]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:44 pm 
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151027

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:44 pm 
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Quote:
also have we decided what is the maximum amperage draw of a crossfire setup with X1900xt?


Huh? Will you be using X1900XT or X1900GT? There is a significant difference in power consumption. But whatever, I still think ithe ST50EF will power crossfire X1900XT, it has 36A on the 12V (link), each X1900XT won't draw more than 10A, leaves 16A for everything else


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:54 am 
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Location: California
Quote:
Huh? Will you be using X1900XT or X1900GT?

Oh, sorry i misspoke, it is a GT. Thank you GamingGod, for the link, looks like a good one :D . Thank you all for the input, if there is anything else tell me. Thanks alot guys!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:17 am 
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Ok, i'm in a dilemma, I can't choose between the Thermalright HR-1 ( http://www.jab-tech.com/Thermalright-HR-01-pr-3191.html ), Thermalright Ultra-120 ( http://www.jab-tech.com/Thermalright-Ul ... -3406.html ) or the Scythe Ninja Plus rev. B ( http://www.jab-tech.com/Scythe-NINJA-PL ... -3538.html ). I may do some minor OCing to the 3800+ X2. I will have on intake fan, most likely a Yate Loon 140mm. Tell me if you need mor info.

Which of these three heatsinks would work best fanless; which would work best with a undervolt fan at 5 volts? Any input would be most appreciated.


-regal196

PS- I chose to get the SeaSonic S12 Energy Plus SS-550HT ATX12V/ EPS12V 550W ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151027 ) Thanks for all the input on that matter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:49 am 
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Location: Chicago
regal196 wrote:
Ok, i'm in a dilemma, I can't choose between the Thermalright HR-1 ( http://www.jab-tech.com/Thermalright-HR-01-pr-3191.html ), Thermalright Ultra-120 ( http://www.jab-tech.com/Thermalright-Ul ... -3406.html ) or the Scythe Ninja Plus rev. B ( http://www.jab-tech.com/Scythe-NINJA-PL ... -3538.html ). I may do some minor OCing to the 3800+ X2. I will have on intake fan, most likely a Yate Loon 140mm. Tell me if you need mor info.

Which of these three heatsinks would work best fanless; which would work best with a undervolt fan at 5 volts? Any input would be most appreciated.


Ultra-120 did the best in the SPCR tests:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article30-page1.html

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:40 pm 
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Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
At low fan speeds, there is pretty much no difference between the Ultra-120 and Ninja. I got the ninja because it was over 20€ cheaper than the thermalright thingie.


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