Need help with quiet mATX build

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ISaidWutWut
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Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by ISaidWutWut » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:02 pm

I recently (as in two months ago) build my first ever PC. Being completely new to the field of PC building, I made a few decision that I'm now seeing were kind of dumb. My current build looks like this:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($284.75 @ Vuugo)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($31.05 @ Vuugo)
Motherboard: MSI Z97 PC MATE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($122.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($129.98 @ Amazon Canada)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($125.00 @ Amazon Canada)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($60.75 @ Vuugo)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 960 2GB Video Card ($227.00 @ Newegg Canada)
Case: Cooler Master K280 ATX Mid Tower Case ($46.37 @ DirectCanada)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($64.99 @ Memory Express)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B redux-1200 59.1 CFM 120mm Fan ($26.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B redux-1200 59.1 CFM 120mm Fan ($26.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Monitor: Dell U3415W 60Hz 34.0" Monitor ($1219.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Other: be quiet! 650W Straight Power 10 ($120.00)
Total: $2486.85
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-07-04 00:59 EDT-0400

I've since decided a number of things...
1. That my case is way bigger than I would like and getting the cheapest piece of metal with a MOBO tray was a poor choice (this thing makes whatever fan you put in the front slot OUTRAGEOUSLY loud, even though the same fan put at the exhaust is 100% silent)
2. That my motherboard was a poor choice... it doesn't support SLI, it doesn't have M.2, which is pretty much the main reason for going z97 over z87. For UNKNOWN reasons it doesn't support audio over HDMI, and apparently this is a problem on SEVERAL PC Mates (according to the interwebz)
3. That going for the smallest capacity PSU possible to save cash was REALLY dumb because it leaves absolutely no room for expansion.
4. I value noise levels WAAAAY more than I thought I would

With these facts in mind, I've redesigned my build.
EDIT: I've redesigned the redesign with the feedback as of July 6th/15
  1. Replaced GPU: GTX 980 ti with a GTX 970
  2. Replaced PSU: Corsair 850W with a Be Quiet! Straight Power 10
  3. Added Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 800RPM fan at the recommendation of the fan roundups
  4. Updated pricing to be accurate
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (Purchased For $279.00)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-L12 37.8 CFM CPU Cooler ($69.99 @ NCIX)
Motherboard: Asus GRYPHON Z87 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($159.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (Purchased For $109.00)
Storage: Mushkin Reactor 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (Purchased For $104.00)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (Purchased For $60.00)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card ($439.75 @ Vuugo)
Case: Corsair Air 240 MicroATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $95.00)
Power Supply: be quiet! 580W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($125.00)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B redux-1200 59.1 CFM 120mm Fan (Purchased For $14.00)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B redux-1200 59.1 CFM 120mm Fan (Purchased For $14.00)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 800RPM ($23.62)
Total: $1493.34
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-07-06 23:20 EDT-0400

This machine will probably be mostly for gaming, Dota, Diablo, TERA, Minecraft, Modded Skyrim, Witcher 3, Don't Starve; as well as some 3D + 2D animation; and occasional video editing.
Last edited by ISaidWutWut on Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

CA_Steve
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by CA_Steve » Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:51 am

Welcome to SPCR.

Here's my take on the over all concept. The GTX 980 Ti has 250W TDP. SLI = 500W for the gfx cards. Add another ~130W for the CPU (assuming no OC) and everything else and you have a stress load of around 630W and heavy gaming load of around 540W. The smaller the case, the tougher it is to get rid of heat -> louder. Using the Bronze rated PSU gives ~85% efficiency, which adds another 100W, or 640W of heat to get rid of. Can be done, but will be tough to do quietly. Plus, planning to add a second gfx card 5-6 years down the road is problematic. Will the cards be readily available? Will it be cost effective versus just dumping the existing card and getting the 5th or 6th later gen card? Will DX 13 be out and have features that you need that the current card card provide? ...and so on.

A safer, less expensive, and quieter approach might be to aim a little lower. Can you game effectively now at 1440p with a GTX 980? If so, it's TDP is 160W and it's $200 CAN cheaper. Then look to get the SLI card a few years down the road rather than 5 or 6. Your stressed load power drops to 450W and high gaming load drops to 380W. Get a decent PSU like the be quiet! Straight Power 10 550CM or 650CM and it'll be more efficient/less waste heat/way quieter.

ISaidWutWut
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by ISaidWutWut » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:55 am

CA_Steve wrote:[spoiler]Welcome to SPCR.

Here's my take on the over all concept. The GTX 980 Ti has 250W TDP. SLI = 500W for the gfx cards. Add another ~130W for the CPU (assuming no OC) and everything else and you have a stress load of around 630W and heavy gaming load of around 540W. The smaller the case, the tougher it is to get rid of heat -> louder. Using the Bronze rated PSU gives ~85% efficiency, which adds another 100W, or 640W of heat to get rid of. Can be done, but will be tough to do quietly. Plus, planning to add a second gfx card 5-6 years down the road is problematic. Will the cards be readily available? Will it be cost effective versus just dumping the existing card and getting the 5th or 6th later gen card? Will DX 13 be out and have features that you need that the current card card provide? ...and so on.

A safer, less expensive, and quieter approach might be to aim a little lower. Can you game effectively now at 1440p with a GTX 980? If so, it's TDP is 160W and it's $200 CAN cheaper. Then look to get the SLI card a few years down the road rather than 5 or 6. Your stressed load power drops to 450W and high gaming load drops to 380W. Get a decent PSU like the be quiet! Straight Power 10 550CM or 650CM and it'll be more efficient/less waste heat/way quieter.[/spoiler]
From what I've heard, if you OC a 970 to about 1500MHz, you can get 980 performance out of it for a significantly reduced cost. Do you think such a heavy overclock is too ambitious for a quiet machine? Because if the 970 is viable, then I could execute a similar plan but do it for only $350 now and maybe $300 in a few years time. Realistically I could probably only do a full OC when rendering an animation, and do a much more modest overclock at all other times, and when I'm browsing the internet or watching youtube I'd propbably run at regular stock speeds. The rationale is that if I'm going to be taking cost saving measures to increase value, I should be going for the highest value card, which I believe to be the GTX970. I just feel that if I want a beefy card, I should go 980 ti, and if I want less power draw, cost saving, and flexibility, I should go 970.

Regardless of 970 vs 980, I still think I will go with MSI, because from what I hear, they strike a good balance point between power and noise, where asus opts more for noise and gigabyte opts more for power. Am I correct in believing that?

P.S. Thank you for your help, I really appreciate the support, given how complicated part selection can appear to a NEWB like myself.

Abula
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by Abula » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:34 am

Asus cards are pretty good on idle or light load, just i dont like their Strix fan design when they loaded with a demanding game, above 2k rpms they simply are not quiet, and the cards need the cooling as they are approaching 80C where nvidia has the limit for the boost. Personally i think MSI bigger fans allow for a better sound signature under load. I cant stand the GTX970s on diablo3 playing for hours, i can hear a lot, so MSI GTX980ti are on the way =). I see more common MSI and Asus making taller PCB cards, and with most having 150mm CPU coolers, i would like to see a some point approaching those limits and use of 120 or 140 mm fans on them.

But remember im using the Strix on SLI and running 4k, under 1080p and single card setup might not reach this kind of loads where the strix becomes noticeable, as i said if you dont stress it hard the card is pretty good. As a final comment, from what i seen the gigabyte seems decent under load, probably better than Asus strix fan design, but i dont own one to say how they compare.

CA_Steve
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by CA_Steve » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:45 am

I think you can get close to the 980 by OC'ing the 970..at least for gaming.. I don't have a GPGPU benchmark to compare atm. Just make sure your applications don't use more than 3.5GB of the 4GB VRAM.

The MSI Gaming version is a decent card. passive fan for 2D loads, fairly quiet for 3D and decent temps- so thermal room for OC. You can set up a couple of speed and fan profiles with MSI's Afterburner utility.

You have to look at either a different case or a different gfx card, though as the Air 240 has a limitation on gfx card height and neither the Asus or MSI cards will fit.

Abula
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by Abula » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:50 am

As a side note, the techpowerup reviews are starting to come, and not such good news on MSI, MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti Gaming 6 GB
Back when we tested the MSI GTX 780 Ti Gaming, the card only produced 30 dBA under load while consuming about as much power as the GTX 980 Ti Gaming, so I see no reason why such noise levels shouldn't be possible with the GTX 980 Ti, too.
Fan noise during serious gaming is also much lower than with the NVIDIA reference design, but at 37 dBA, far from whisper quiet. The EVGA GTX 980 Ti is definitely quieter than that and the ASUS GTX 980 Ti Strix may even get closer to the 30 dBA mark.
Interesting that the EVGA is quieter, i think its more a setup of the vbios fan ramp up, will test once i get my cards.

ISaidWutWut
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by ISaidWutWut » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:04 am

CA_Steve wrote:I think you can get close to the 980 by OC'ing the 970..at least for gaming.. I don't have a GPGPU benchmark to compare atm. Just make sure your applications don't use more than 3.5GB of the 4GB VRAM.

The MSI Gaming version is a decent card. passive fan for 2D loads, fairly quiet for 3D and decent temps- so thermal room for OC. You can set up a couple of speed and fan profiles with MSI's Afterburner utility.

You have to look at either a different case or a different gfx card, though as the Air 240 has a limitation on gfx card height and neither the Asus or MSI cards will fit.
I've just received an offer on reddit from someone with 2 Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Gaming cards, for $620-$650. You mentioned sizing... I'm seeing builds around the interwebs of people putting G1 cards in their Air 240s. I was under the impression that the gigabyte cards were larger than MSI and ASUS cards, am I totally off base there? Or is it that it WILL fit, but very tightly, and with restricted airflow...

CA_Steve
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by CA_Steve » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:38 am

Corsair says 290mm max length. Gigabyte card is 310-312mm.

The height looks...ok. Might be close with the PCIe graphics connectors.

Smanci
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by Smanci » Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:14 pm

Don't the G1 970 cards still have that 1600RPM minimum fan speed limit?

ISaidWutWut
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by ISaidWutWut » Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:00 pm

Abula wrote:Asus cards are pretty good on idle or light load, just i dont like their Strix fan design when they loaded with a demanding game, above 2k rpms they simply are not quiet, and the cards need the cooling as they are approaching 80C where nvidia has the limit for the boost. Personally i think MSI bigger fans allow for a better sound signature under load.

But remember im using the Strix on SLI and running 4k, under 1080p and single card setup might not reach this kind of loads where the strix becomes noticeable, as i said if you dont stress it hard the card is pretty good. As a final comment, from what i seen the gigabyte seems decent under load, probably better than Asus strix fan design, but i dont own one to say how they compare.
CA_Steve wrote:I think you can get close to the 980 by OC'ing the 970..at least for gaming.. I don't have a GPGPU benchmark to compare atm. Just make sure your applications don't use more than 3.5GB of the 4GB VRAM.
For the most part, I'm going to be gaming in 1440p 21:9, which is slightly more intensive than regular 1440, but not nearly as harsh as 4k. The 970 single card should be fine for that. Where problems will come in when I render a 1440p animation, I don't expect that to be quiet regardless of card, and am only slightly concerned about the VRAM issue. Does the card stop functioning or does it just slow down? I can stand a longer render, because I'd have to dedicate a full day to it no matter what. The real problems come with the live view while animating/modelling, and while I think that I can probably deal with it, I'd rather have the massive VRAM of the 980 ti for that specific process.

Of course, we as we discussed earlier, the 980 ti probably isn't the best for this particular build. It sure is a problem. I'm starting to think I could be one of the very unique situations where the 980 is actually a viable option, seeing as most of the time its not really worth it. Funny.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:11 am

I think nobody already addressed the PSU rating: the Corsair CX 850 is rated for full power at just 30°C, in a sort of hotbox like the A240 that probably means looking for problems (set aside it isn't quiet at all), at least with any SLI/CrossFire setup.

CA_Steve
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:18 am

GTX 970 > 3.5gb use: it just drops the effective memory bandwidth, so it may slow down your process a bit - it won't cause it to stop. Is your GTX 960 2G maxing out memory use? If not, then it's a non-issue.

ISaidWutWut
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by ISaidWutWut » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:09 am

CA_Steve wrote:GTX 970 > 3.5gb use: it just drops the effective memory bandwidth, so it may slow down your process a bit - it won't cause it to stop. Is your GTX 960 2G maxing out memory use? If not, then it's a non-issue.
It isn't currently, but I don't have animation software on this machine yet. I Haven't found a good deal on C4D, Maya, or 3DS Max. I'm looking for a several year old version to save money, and they just don't get all that cheap. I might settle on poser, but that's another discussion. The longer this discussion goes on though, the more I'm thinking the 970 is the right choice.

UPDATE: I managed to get a Gigabyte GTX 970 ITX for $251USD/$315CAD and an ASUS GTX 980 Strix for $400USD/$500CAD (as long as I don't get outbid in the next 3 minutes). I'm still torn which to keep, but they were so heavily discounted that I couldn't resist. Both were sold by NCIX eBay so I'm fairly confident in the quality.

UPDATE 2: Was outbid in the last 3 seconds on both cards. I am now sad.

ISaidWutWut
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by ISaidWutWut » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:18 pm

Requesting this be moved to system advice/troubleshooting. I apologize for putting in the wrong section, but as a newbie I went straight for anything labeled "newcomer"

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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:10 pm

Don't be sad about the Gigabyte ITX card...all of the single fanned 970 cards are fairly noisy. Nor does this card have a passive fan in 2D mode. Have you considered other mATX cases?

No reason to move the thread - this works :)

ISaidWutWut
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by ISaidWutWut » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:36 pm

CA_Steve wrote:Don't be sad about the Gigabyte ITX card...all of the single fanned 970 cards are fairly noisy. Nor does this card have a passive fan in 2D mode. Have you considered other mATX cases?

No reason to move the thread - this works :)
I've looked at other mATX cases, but I can't get behind the aesthetic of any other case in a similar price range. If you could recommend something that would be great. I know the Enthoo Evolv is supposed to be really good but it looks kind of awkward to me. I think I've settled on an EVGA SSC 970, but if a G1 Gaming comes up for a solid price I'll take it. From what I've read the G1 fits nicely if you air cool, which (at least for the couple years) is the plan.

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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:25 pm

Have you looked at the Fractal Define Mini? There's a couple of user build threads. Upside is it'll support 15.75" GPU if the drive cage is removed. Also, 160mm tall CPU coolers.

ISaidWutWut
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by ISaidWutWut » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:33 pm

CA_Steve wrote:Have you looked at the Fractal Define Mini? There's a couple of user build threads. Upside is it'll support 15.75" GPU if the drive cage is removed. Also, 160mm tall CPU coolers.
Hmmmm, its ok, but I still like the 240 better. The large GPU clearance is nice, but I have an HDD, and I can't afford pure SSD storage, so no matter what I'm stuck with a small GPU, but since the 240 has more length clearance, and the height clearance problems are easier to work around (just go with EVGA or Gigabyte), I think its going to be a better solution. Still, I'm going to order both and return whichever I like less. Free shipping, an indecisive buyer's best friend.


While we're on the topic of HDDs, is it better to switch out my WD Blue for a Green to reduce noise, or setup some sort of anti-vibrational mounting system, or both. What I've seen of the 240's drive cages don't make it look like setting up a suspended mount would be easy, but I'm sure its doable. As for the mini, well I guess we'll see now, won't we.

CA_Steve
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Re: Need help with quiet mATX build

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:15 pm

The Define has 2 drive cages. You can remove the middle one and still use the lower one. Maybe Abula or another Mini owner can speak up and say if that'll clear SLI cards.

The WD Green (or Red) will be noticably quieter than the WD Blue. Much reduced seek noise, and less vibration. YMMV as for whether the remaining vibration is transmitted via the case or if you need to suspend.

BTW - you only have 120 - 125mm clearance for the cpu cooler in the Air 240. So, your specified tower Noctua NH-U12S is way too tall.

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