Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

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Techbyte
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:37 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by Techbyte » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:34 pm

Hello,
To start I will say that I am new to the forum and happy to be a part of it. I have built quite a few PCs in the past for myself, family, friends, etc. I have generally just focused solely on appearance and performance in my builds, totally disregarding acoustics. Needless to say, I have ended up with some pretty loud PCs. I am 30 years old now and my preferences are pretty much the opposite. I now prefer a more professional, minimalistic, and quiet build. I don't worry so much about having a windowed PC with all matching hardware and LEDs.

So, for my first quiet PC I am going with the Fractal Design Define Nano S. (No Window) I am a longtime fan of iTX builds and nothing will sway me from that. (Or my case choice, as I already ordered it)

I am looking for advice on general hardware. Fans, CPU Cooler (Socket 1151), add ons or misc? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I am also currently trying to decide between the EVGA 550G2 and the 550GS. (S for silent) I would assume that the 550GS would be quieter than the 550G2, but with the G2 having a larger fan and also supporting the eco mode switch, I am not so sure. The G2 has a 7 year warranty, GS has a 5. They are both $75 and for that price, I strongly feel they can not be beat with the build quality and warranties they offer.

Thank you for your time.

EDIT:
I guess I didn't give you all much to work with did I. Lack of commonsense on my part, lol.

CPU: i5 6500 (65w)
RAM: 16GB (8GB x 2) Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133
MOBO: Unknown - ITX
GPU: Nvidia GTX 1070
STORAGE: Unknown - M.2 and/or 2.5" SSD (No Hard Drives)
PSU: Unknown - EVGA 550GS/550G2 or Corsair RM550X or ?
Last edited by Techbyte on Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Abula
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Location: Guatemala

Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by Abula » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:14 pm

Techbyte wrote:To start I will say that I am new to the forum and happy to be a part of it.
Welcome to SPCR!!!!
Techbyte wrote:So, for my first quiet PC I am going with the Fractal Design Define Nano S. (No Window) I am a longtime fan of iTX builds and nothing will sway me from that. (Or my case choice, as I already ordered it)

I am looking for advice on general hardware. Fans, CPU Cooler (Socket 1151), add ons or misc? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
The Define Nano S has a limit to 160mm height coolers, so i would recommend you go with Scythe Ninja 4: A Legend Reborn which has a 155mm height, so it should fit fine. Worth mentioning that you need to go with standard height memory as the fan will be over it.

Not sure what CPU you going with and if you going with a dedicated GPU, but one important thing for the videocard to fit is to look for a more centered motherboard, Asus is a good option and has a lot of different offerings depending on your budget like,
ASUS Z170I PRO GAMING
ASUS ROG B150I PRO GAMING
ASUS H110I-PLUS/CSM
Techbyte wrote:I am also currently trying to decide between the EVGA 550G2 and the 550GS. (S for silent) I would assume that the 550GS would be quieter than the 550G2, but with the G2 having a larger fan and also supporting the eco mode switch, I am not so sure. The G2 has a 7 year warranty, GS has a 5. They are both $75 and for that price, I strongly feel they can not be beat with the build quality and warranties they offer.
PSU its your call, i built on a EVGA 750 G2 a Haswell build and still running fine and no issues to report. I would prefer the EVGA 650 P2 or Corsair RX550, up to you if its worth the 10 year warranty for the extra $25.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:34 am

Techbyte wrote:I am looking for advice on general hardware. Fans, CPU Cooler (Socket 1151), add ons or misc? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Well, and what about CPU, storage and graphics? Particularly the CPU cooler is affected by the CPU of choice.

About case fans, just try the stock ones hooked up to the mobo's headers, and just then decide if you may need something different, because broadly speaking the Fractal GP-series fans are good options (noise wise, as seen in the R5 SPCR tests).

Techbyte wrote:I am also currently trying to decide between the EVGA 550G2 and the 550GS.
As said by Abula, probably current most bang for the bucks is the Corsair RM550x, noise wise: it's likely quieter than both the EVGAs, the relevant fan should have a better sounding bearing and besides it offers a 10-years warranty.

With reference to build quality and electical performances, the 550GS is a reduced/simplified version of the Seasonic G-platform, so it's clearly inferior to both the G2 and the RMx, but nonetheless it's a fine PSU (and it might come handy being 1cm shorter).

Techbyte
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Location: Wisconsin

Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by Techbyte » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:19 am

Thank you for your responses. I have updated my original post with my hardware choices for my build.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:02 pm

Techbyte wrote:CPU: i5 6500 (65w)
RAM: 16GB (8GB x 2) Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133
MOBO: Unknown - ITX
GPU: Nvidia GTX 1070
STORAGE: Unknown - M.2 and/or 2.5" SSD (No Hard Drives)
About 200W of gaming power draw, CPU cooler and GPU as main noise sources... well, the Scythe Kotetsu is a good option as the CPU cooler of choice, if it were well priced (in North America it isn't easily sourceable).
Otherwise the already mentioned Scythe Ninja 4 (overkill), or the Thermalright Macho Direct (also overkill, but it could be the better priced) are worthy alternatives (though there's plenty of options).

Techbyte wrote:PSU: Unknown - EVGA 550GS/550G2 or Corsair RM550X or ?
Or
Last edited by quest_for_silence on Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Techbyte
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:37 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by Techbyte » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:16 pm

Now I am strongly considering the Seasonic SS-460FL2 fanless power supply. My only concern is the effect it would have on the rest of the system. The PSU sits directly under the GPU in the Nano S. I'm wondering how much heat a fanless PSU would put into my case / GPU. A regular PSU would have virtually no effect on the rest of the system as I would face it fan side down. The 460FL2 "has" to be positioned "right" side up.

One thing I do know, is that I would take fan noise over coil whine /electric noise any day. If the fanless PSUs are more likely to have this, I'd rather not even waste my time as I would return it immediately.

I appreciate the help and advice from you all. I want to build a quiet PC, but it doesn't have to be absolutely silent. Although, that would be pretty cool.

I will be sure to use the silentpcreview links to Amazon and Newegg when I order my hardware, which will be roughly $1000.

Also, I have a Silverstone AP-141 laying around. I wonder how loud it would be to use as my intake. I know it can push some air.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:43 pm

Techbyte wrote:Now I am strongly considering the Seasonic SS-460FL2 fanless power supply.

The choice of the 460W over the 400W seems a bit pointless, the former just has some connectors more.

Techbyte wrote:The 460FL2 "has" to be positioned "right" side up.

There's no penalty mounting it with the grille facing downwards.

Techbyte wrote:One thing I do know, is that I would take fan noise over coil whine /electric noise any day. If the fanless PSUs are more likely to have this, I'd rather not even waste my time as I would return it immediately.

With reference to coil whine YMMV with any PSU.

Techbyte wrote:I will be sure to use the silentpcreview links to Amazon and Newegg when I order my hardware, which will be roughly $1000.

Thanks for reminding us, I updated the links.

Techbyte wrote:Also, I have a Silverstone AP-141 laying around. I wonder how loud it would be to use as my intake. I know it can push some air.

You do need to test the rig: on paper it doesn't look that special (neither you seemingly need serious air).

Abula
Posts: 3662
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Location: Guatemala

Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by Abula » Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:54 pm

Techbyte wrote:Now I am strongly considering the Seasonic SS-460FL2 fanless power supply. My only concern is the effect it would have on the rest of the system. The PSU sits directly under the GPU in the Nano S. I'm wondering how much heat a fanless PSU would put into my case / GPU. A regular PSU would have virtually no effect on the rest of the system as I would face it fan side down. The 460FL2 "has" to be positioned "right" side up.
personally i wouldnt go with a passive PSU on the Nano S, its going to be right next to the GPU... i think its best to have the PSU aislated from the setup, a semi passive like the Corsair RM550X is ideal, specially at $90 its a very good buy.
Techbyte wrote:Also, I have a Silverstone AP-141 laying around. I wonder how loud it would be to use as my intake. I know it can push some air.
Test it if you already have it, but remember most of the mini itx mobos only have 2 fan headers, i think the 3 that i linked, 2 of them have two, and the Z170 pro gaming has 3, but thinking on the limitations of the headers, i would probably move toward PWM fans with PWM fan splitter, something like Cryotech PWM fan splitter would allow you to run all the case fans from one mobo header and the other for the CPU fan. The two that i would suggest you consider later on if you wish to change the included fans are, Noctua NF-S12B 1200 PWM or Scythe Slip Stream 120 PWM SY1225SL12LM-P Fan, at the end both are the same price, the slipstream is $1 less but amazon charges $0.91 taxes, so kinda the same.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:02 pm

Abula wrote:personally i wouldnt go with a passive PSU on the Nano S, its going to be right next to the GPU...
In case, just put it upside down. :wink:

Techbyte
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Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by Techbyte » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:34 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
Abula wrote:personally i wouldnt go with a passive PSU on the Nano S, its going to be right next to the GPU...
In case, just put it upside down. :wink:
Why do they have big notice about "This Side UP" then?

quest_for_silence
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Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:35 am

Techbyte wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:
Abula wrote:personally i wouldnt go with a passive PSU on the Nano S, its going to be right next to the GPU...
In case, just put it upside down. :wink:
Why do they have big notice about "This Side UP" then?
Just for shits and giggles, I guess (I got three and used indifferently facing upwards or downwards, no issue whatsoever in the last 5-6 years).

Hrafn
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Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by Hrafn » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:55 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
Techbyte wrote:The 460FL2 "has" to be positioned "right" side up.

There's no penalty mounting it with the grille facing downwards.
Seasonic state that their fanless PSUs are to be mounted right side up (and they come with a tag explicitly stating this). This is presumably so that the warm air is able to rise away from the components by convection, lacking a fan to blow it away.

I've currently got a Seasonic SS-400FL2, and am looking seriously at the S Nano for my (eventual) next build, so I've been thinking about the compatibility myself. A mITX case doesn't need a big (in terms of wattage) PSU, and many (most?) of the higher-end/more-efficient smaller PSUs are fanless, so it doesn't really make sense to make a premium mITX case that is incompatible with them.

Would adding a horizontal 'shelf' between an (right-side-up) fanless PSU and the GPU work in the S Nano? Or would that still restrict the PSU airflow too much?

Techbyte
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Location: Wisconsin

Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by Techbyte » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:41 pm

Hrafn wrote:Would adding a horizontal 'shelf' between an (right-side-up) fanless PSU and the GPU work in the S Nano? Or would that still restrict the PSU airflow too much?
I'm not sure, but I don't think it would work. I'm not even sure how one could fit anything between the two. Looking at the case with the power supply installed, the top of the power supply is almost flush with the second pcie expansion slot / bracket.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:36 pm

Hrafn wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:
Techbyte wrote:The 460FL2 "has" to be positioned "right" side up.

There's no penalty mounting it with the grille facing downwards.
Seasonic state that their fanless PSUs are to be mounted right side up (and they come with a tag explicitly stating this).
Nonetheless that warning is actually pointless.

Hrafn
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Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by Hrafn » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:47 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:Nonetheless that warning is actually pointless.
Does anybody actually have hard data (e.g. comparative temperature readings for the different orientations) to back this up?

That fanless PSUs produce so little heat that they do not even need active convection to dissipate it does not seem beyond the realm of possibility, but I'd still like some hard confirmation before risking my next build on the proposition.

ADDENDUM: one issue likely to affect residual airflow through an inverted fanless PSU is how much positive pressure you have in your case. The SS-400FL2 has vent holes on all sides except the (uninverted) bottom (even a small vent on the modular cable plug side), so with positive pressure, some air is likely to 'leak' through these vents and out the back/bottom, even without convection.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:17 pm

Hrafn wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:Nonetheless that warning is actually pointless.
Does anybody actually have hard data (e.g. comparative temperature readings for the different orientations) to back this up?

No: besides, you don't need any conventional temperature reading, also hard to record properly, but some comparative FLIR shots to assess the differences: I doubt there's anything suitable all over the web but please, feel free to look for (and in case, to share).

On the other hand I have my own almost 6 years experience with those units: just for instance, my 460FL is still running after all these years inside an original Antec Solo, mounted upside down because of the Solo's solid top panel, so I'm pretty confident about some practical consequences of disregarding the explicit Seasonic warning, even in a relatively hot climate like mine (yesterday we run our rigs at up to 37°C ambient).

But you may check the original SPCR torture test of the gold rated 400FL: 30 hours at up to about 60°C ambient while actually supplying 250W and 400W DC, in order to possibly get some clues about the almost irrelevance of orientation in conventional desktops if airflow/temperature were your main concern.

Hrafn wrote:but I'd still like some hard confirmation before risking my next build on the proposition.

If you don't feel comfortable at, do what you think best, it's always the right decision. And take also in to account that shit happens, in any case.

Hrafn wrote:ADDENDUM: one issue likely to affect residual airflow through an inverted fanless PSU is how much positive pressure you have in your case. The SS-400FL2 has vent holes on all sides except the (uninverted) bottom (even a small vent on the modular cable plug side), so with positive pressure, some air is likely to 'leak' through these vents and out the back/bottom, even without convection.

If I get you right, I guess it's likely something beyond your control possibilities: forget it, if you can (and at any rate, I guess that any leakage is smaller than the volume of air passing through the top grille, isn't it?).

Techbyte
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Re: Newcomer Here - Hardware Tips

Post by Techbyte » Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:16 pm

Either way, if I were to go with a Seasonic fanless PSU I would wan't to run it right side up as intended. Having the writing upside would drive my OCD crazy anyways.

That said, I feel these PSU's are just a bad idea for me in my case. The Nano S pulls air in through the front of the case and exhausts warm air out the back. With my GPU sitting "flush" with the top of the PSU, I can only assume that it would be fed hot air from the PSU. This would be good for the PSU, as it would create air flow by pulling air through the back and out the top. However, clearly this probably would not be ideal for the GPU.

I do like the Seasonic fanless PSU and I do want it. If I ended up purchasing a different case where the PSU and GPU are much further apart, I would definitely give one a shot. I have the Define Nano S though. In this case, it is only logical to have a normal PSU with the fan facing down, giving it its own air flow and separating it from the rest of the build. In my opinion of course.

What do you think? Would it be ok to have my case intaking air in the front AND back with the GPU essentially pulling air through the PSU, then that air would rise up and be exhausted out the back? Or would my GPU end up pulling warm air into the PSU with the PSU warming the air up even more, then my GPU using this warm air to cool its warm heatsink?

I'm ordering the Corsair RM550X.... lol

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