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 Post subject: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:11 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:01 am
Posts: 1243
i find windows 10 and office 207 with ribbon and onward incomprehensible

I prefer windows 7 and office 2003

there's no learning curve for windows 7 for me, having grown up with windows 95

and office 2003.

it seemingly feels faster and snappier to, seemingly loads quicker.

also windows 10 automatic updates and telemetry spyware is concerning to me
cornata seems like eating up cpu cycles

my core 2 duo doesn't have an nvme i'd have to buy an adapter

how to install windows 7 using nvme driver?

how much performance do i lose by going ssd sata vs ssd nvme?


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Quote:
i find windows 10 and office 207 with ribbon and onward incomprehensible

I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
Windows 7 is starting to lose support, and will very likely get worsen as times goes by, my suggestion si move on, Windows 10 is the fastest and more secure windows to date, its not perfect and its very intrusive, but as an OS is very stable and to me atm is very mature, there are issues none the less, but in time you will lose more than you gain by not moving on.

Quote:
there's no learning curve for windows 7 for me, having grown up with windows 95
There is very little learning curve from 7 to 10, the start button is back, you can do it without titles, its pretty much a windows 7 with support.

Quote:
also windows 10 automatic updates and telemetry spyware is concerning to me
Automatic updates you can fix with PRO edition, on the Spyware.... yes its a pain, and it shoulnt be there, but i personally dont think its a big deal either.

Quote:
cornata seems like eating up cpu cycles
I dont use it much, but when i did never saw that much cpu use because of it.

Quote:
how much performance do i lose by going ssd sata vs ssd nvme?
For the average user there is virtually no difference, unless you do benefit from high sequential reads/writes, then NVME PCIe ssds make sense, almost any ssd will give you snappiness and responsiveness that an ssd introduce to pcs, you would even have a tough time differentiating between sata ii and sata iii ssd, not to say an NVME. Specially for an old pc like you are trying to do do, go with sata ssd, you will be fine and not have to deal streaming the drivers of the hdd.

Quote:
how to install windows 7 using nvme driver?

Add NVMe driver support to Windows 7 Installation
How to Install Windows 7 on Intel 750 Series NVME Drive

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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:04 pm 
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If you C2D-era CPU, you likely won't be able to boot from NVME drive, even if you put one on an adapter. SATA SSD makes more sense, do you have any SATA3-ports on motherboard?


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:57 pm 
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I prefer Linux. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:05 pm 
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akm wrote:
If you C2D-era CPU, you likely won't be able to boot from NVME drive, even if you put one on an adapter. SATA SSD makes more sense, do you have any SATA3-ports on motherboard?


asus p5k is sata 2 i believe.

yeah i've wondered if i will be able to boot from NVME. ever heard of clover EFI?


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:09 pm 
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Posts: 1243
Abula wrote:
Quote:
i find windows 10 and office 207 with ribbon and onward incomprehensible

I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
Windows 7 is starting to lose support, and will very likely get worsen as times goes by, my suggestion si move on, Windows 10 is the fastest and more secure windows to date, its not perfect and its very intrusive, but as an OS is very stable and to me atm is very mature, there are issues none the less, but in time you will lose more than you gain by not moving on.

Quote:
there's no learning curve for windows 7 for me, having grown up with windows 95
There is very little learning curve from 7 to 10, the start button is back, you can do it without titles, its pretty much a windows 7 with support.

Quote:
also windows 10 automatic updates and telemetry spyware is concerning to me
Automatic updates you can fix with PRO edition, on the Spyware.... yes its a pain, and it shoulnt be there, but i personally dont think its a big deal either.

Quote:
cornata seems like eating up cpu cycles
I dont use it much, but when i did never saw that much cpu use because of it.

Quote:
how much performance do i lose by going ssd sata vs ssd nvme?
For the average user there is virtually no difference, unless you do benefit from high sequential reads/writes, then NVME PCIe ssds make sense, almost any ssd will give you snappiness and responsiveness that an ssd introduce to pcs, you would even have a tough time differentiating between sata ii and sata iii ssd, not to say an NVME. Specially for an old pc like you are trying to do do, go with sata ssd, you will be fine and not have to deal streaming the drivers of the hdd.

Quote:
how to install windows 7 using nvme driver?

Add NVMe driver support to Windows 7 Installation
How to Install Windows 7 on Intel 750 Series NVME Drive


thanks for the reasurrance Abula, as my asus p5k i believe is sata 2

i suspect cornata and others eat up cpu cycles and makes things slower.

its my understanding most drivers will work on vista 7 and 10, except perhaps direct x 12

i feel unconfortable with automatic updates, i've heard of people getting their installs bricked :(


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Posts: 1243
asus p5k uses sata2 and intel p35 and ddr2 which is why i bought it, it has everything i need

do you know anything about clover efi?

apparently i can somehow install clover efi on legacy bios pci adapter nvme card onto the m.2 and somehow it allows installation of windows 10 on m.2 on pci e or windows 7

looks kinda complicated tbh.

obviously a sata ssd is much easier, but how much performance loss is there?

there's not much of a price difference between sata samsung 250gb and a nvme m.2 250gb of same capacity, and an adapter is about $25

so the question is performance.


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:29 am
Posts: 1642
Location: UK
The Asus P5K has 2 PCI-Express 16X slots. On most current motherboards using both of these slots would reduce speed to 8X but I'm not sure this is the case with the P5K. It's possible that using both would drop the speeds to 16X + 4X. The adaptor you are proposing to use specifies 4X PCI-Express 3.0 as a normal requirement. Your PCI-E slots are to the earlier 1.0/1.1 PCI-E standard. In terms of speed they would be around 25% of PCI-E 3.0, so your main 16X slot would be around 4X equivalent, and the secondary one could be as low as 1X equivalent. Using an equivalent to a 1X PCI-Express 3.0 slot for a NVME drive could clearly reduce its potential speed significantly. I don't think it would make sense to go this route and SATA would be a better option.

The other option is whether the graphics card could be moved to the secondary position, and to then use the primary 16X slot for the adapter. I'm not convinced this would work at all, but you could try moving the graphics card to see if it is possible. This still relies on the assumption that there won't be further speed losses due to factors other than the PCI-E slots speeds including the performance of the chipset and CPU, the speed of the memory bus and/or the memory installed on the motherboard. In short, SATA is probably the only practical option.


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:29 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:01 am
Posts: 1243
lodestar wrote:
The Asus P5K has 2 PCI-Express 16X slots. On most current motherboards using both of these slots would reduce speed to 8X but I'm not sure this is the case with the P5K. It's possible that using both would drop the speeds to 16X + 4X. The adaptor you are proposing to use specifies 4X PCI-Express 3.0 as a normal requirement. Your PCI-E slots are to the earlier 1.0/1.1 PCI-E standard. In terms of speed they would be around 25% of PCI-E 3.0, so your main 16X slot would be around 4X equivalent, and the secondary one could be as low as 1X equivalent. Using an equivalent to a 1X PCI-Express 3.0 slot for a NVME drive could clearly reduce its potential speed significantly. I don't think it would make sense to go this route and SATA would be a better option.

The other option is whether the graphics card could be moved to the secondary position, and to then use the primary 16X slot for the adapter. I'm not convinced this would work at all, but you could try moving the graphics card to see if it is possible. This still relies on the assumption that there won't be further speed losses due to factors other than the PCI-E slots speeds including the performance of the chipset and CPU, the speed of the memory bus and/or the memory installed on the motherboard. In short, SATA is probably the only practical option.


wow i wish i could +1 this :) as in like this. i find it helpful and informative.

i think pciE 4x 1.1 is still faster than sata 2 though.
of course i'll have to figure out clover efi if i want to go this route

is there a 2tb limit for ssd as boot drive like there is for hard drives, for MBR?

since we're on silent pc computing i read the samsung evo 860 is the lowest power consumption sata ssd, so this is the one i should get, then put windows on it?

currently i'm using a samsung sp2000c which is 200gb nidec moter. for some reason the hard drive keeps seeking even though i turned off windows indexing :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:56 am 
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Posts: 1642
Location: UK
dan wrote:
is there a 2tb limit for ssd as boot drive like there is for hard drives, for MBR?
This is what Microsoft have to say on the subject.

As far as SSDs go, take your pick. Samsung's Evo 860 is a popular drive but there are alternatives. Most SSD manufacturers also offer freedownloads of utility software such as WD Dashboard, Samsung Magician, etc. This software can be useful to check and install any firmware updates that become available. One point to be wary of with them is that some automatically set high performance Windows power settings without notifying you. This is done to maximize SSD performance, it's easy to change if need be.


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:10 am 
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btw does the asus p5k use legacy bios or uefi

not clear to me

it is definitely AMI which is different from what msi and gigabyte use.

if legacy bios, can it be updated to uefi?

i know that clover efi and duet offer something like uefi but doesn't modify the bios

i'm looking over duet 50 lines of instruction+ and i'm thinking wow :o

https://superuser.com/questions/619226/ ... or-in-a-pc


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:29 am
Posts: 1642
Location: UK
The Asus P5K is definitely what is now called a Legacy BIOS. Bearing in mind that the latest BIOS update available for it is over 10 years old the BIOS clearly dates to a considerable time before UEFI appeared. So it can't be updated. Clover EFI and Duet are presumably designed to load a software-based UEFI-equivalent BIOS at boot.


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:47 pm 
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lodestar wrote:
dan wrote:
is there a 2tb limit for ssd as boot drive like there is for hard drives, for MBR?
This is what Microsoft have to say on the subject.

As far as SSDs go, take your pick. Samsung's Evo 860 is a popular drive but there are alternatives. Most SSD manufacturers also offer freedownloads of utility software such as WD Dashboard, Samsung Magician, etc. This software can be useful to check and install any firmware updates that become available. One point to be wary of with them is that some automatically set high performance Windows power settings without notifying you. This is done to maximize SSD performance, it's easy to change if need be.


so 2tb it is.

actually one reason to use duet efi or clover efi is to get around that but ssd greater than 2tb are cost prohibitive at least for me

given i'm bound by sata2 i guess i would maximize on power saving and running cool, possibly useful to prolonging component life


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Posts: 1243
lodestar wrote:
The Asus P5K is definitely what is now called a Legacy BIOS. Bearing in mind that the latest BIOS update available for it is over 10 years old the BIOS clearly dates to a considerable time before UEFI appeared. So it can't be updated. Clover EFI and Duet are presumably designed to load a software-based UEFI-equivalent BIOS at boot.


do you have any experience with Clover EFI or Duet?

looks kinda complicated tbh

any experience with windows 10 enterprise?

i want a 10 that looks like 7 as closely as possible. if i cannot install 7 that is.


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:06 pm 
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Location: Guatemala
dan wrote:
i want a 10 that looks like 7 as closely as possible. if i cannot install 7 that is.
Just go with a standard sata ssd and install windows 7, you really wont be missing anything. I feel you think you will be losing a ton going with Sata, and its not like that at all, yes if you have the opportunity i would (but this would mean to upgrade everything). Sata SSDs are here to stay for years to come, and even if NVME is the future, there will be faster ssds by the time you upgrade your pc, and we are getting near to the release of PCIe 4.0, meaning that formats can change, maybe they release NVME2... who knows... buy for today for how you want to run your pc, in PC futureproofing is the one of the worst things to try to do.

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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Asus don't list any Windows 10 drivers for the P5K. Despite that some users of early Asus boards report that Windows 10 installs all the necessary drivers.


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:09 pm 
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Posts: 1243
Abula wrote:
dan wrote:
i want a 10 that looks like 7 as closely as possible. if i cannot install 7 that is.
Just go with a standard sata ssd and install windows 7, you really wont be missing anything. I feel you think you will be losing a ton going with Sata, and its not like that at all, yes if you have the opportunity i would (but this would mean to upgrade everything). Sata SSDs are here to stay for years to come, and even if NVME is the future, there will be faster ssds by the time you upgrade your pc, and we are getting near to the release of PCIe 4.0, meaning that formats can change, maybe they release NVME2... who knows... buy for today for how you want to run your pc, in PC futureproofing is the one of the worst things to try to do.


yeah i feel i do just bc there are synthetic benchmarks that compare nvme vs sata

Image

esp latency.

but i'm looking at vids on clover bootloader and i'm thinking wtf?

i do live near a microcenter which has a generous return policy.

Vantec M.2 NVMe/M.2 SATA SSD PCIe x4 Adapter

http://www.microcenter.com/product/4836 ... x4_Adapter

$18.99
My Wish Lists:


windows 7 i understand. 10 looks completely different to anything i've seen


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:10 pm 
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lodestar wrote:
Asus don't list any Windows 10 drivers for the P5K. Despite that some users of early Asus boards report that Windows 10 installs all the necessary drivers.


i was able to install 10 without any problem

once installed i had no clue where anything one.

7 everything is like xp which is like 98 which is like 95

10 had these tiles and cornata and i was like wtf? :o


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:18 pm 
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At least you have been spared the "delights" of Windows 8 and 8.1...


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:55 pm 
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lodestar wrote:
At least you have been spared the "delights" of Windows 8 and 8.1...


looks too much of a deviation of windows xp

windows 10 looks kinda confusing to me but i've heard enterprise is closer to xp and 7

do you have any experience with clover efi bootloader?


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:03 am 
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Hi, my cup of tea is Linux :)


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:50 am 
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EWN64 wrote:
Hi, my cup of tea is Linux :)


which distro?


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:37 am 
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Another Linux fan here. :) I use Linux Mint XFCE and Libre Office. Give it a try dan unless you are big on gaming or some other thing that keeps you tethered to Windows. I made the transition slowly, stuck with Win7 for a time and switched over gradually. Libre Office, Firefox, Thunderbird etc are the same on both systems.

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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:28 am 
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hi yall

i've looked at KAOS distro bc i like the idea of being pure 64 with legacy jetison. not sure if it works with bios.


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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:18 am 
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Vicotnik wrote:
Another Linux fan here. :) I use Linux Mint XFCE and Libre Office. Give it a try dan unless you are big on gaming or some other thing that keeps you tethered to Windows. I made the transition slowly, stuck with Win7 for a time and switched over gradually. Libre Office, Firefox, Thunderbird etc are the same on both systems.
Man i just wished devolopers would support more vulcan to move on to linux for everything and forget windows.... but for now i cant move ='(

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 Post subject: Re: I prefer windows 7 and office 2003
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:14 pm 
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Posts: 25
Location: Austin or Nashville
dan wrote:
EWN64 wrote:
Hi, my cup of tea is Linux :)
which distro?
> I prefer windows 7 and office 2003 ... having grown up with windows 95
> my core 2 duo ...

Hi Dan,

To answer “which distro?,” a quick and easy solution for about any old PC hardware that you want to work like Win95:

- Buy an SSD that fits your system. [1]
- Install Devuan ASCII (based on Debian 9, Stretch, see note in [2].)
- Install TDE, Trinity Desktop Environment (continuation of KDE 3.5). [3]
- Add LibreOffice (and Wine if you need a Win program). [4]

I’m writing this using LibreOffice on a 10 year old core 2 duo laptop...

Abula wrote:
Man i just wished devolopers would support more vulcan to move on to linux for everything and forget windows.... but for now i cant move ='(

Hey Abula,

I don’t know if this works or not, but saw this recently about Linux & Vulkan:

https://linuxconfig.org/improve-your-wi ... -with-dxvk

Best,
Michael

[1] My preference for a laptop is a $150 Samsung 850 EVO 500GB 2.5-Inch SATA III Internal SSD:
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-Inch ... B00P73B1E4

, but see PassMark for what floats your boat...
https://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/high_end_drives.html

[2]
https://devuan.org/

Why Devuan? This pretty much seems the best, non-biased, comparison of Debian (or any systemd OS [Ubuntu, Red Hat, openSUSE, Mint, Fedora, Arch]) and Devuan (e.g. a non systemd OS) that I found to solidify my opinions on why to not use systemd:

“With systemd the main advantage to use Linux is obsolete.”
https://blog.ungleich.ch/en-us/cms/blog ... of-devuan/

# # #

Using a 16GB+ USB to ‘burn’ the install DVD to is generally easiest. You’ll probably want this ISO.

/devuan/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/
devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1.iso

During the install make sure to:

- Connect to your router with an Ethernet cable before booting.
- Select a mirror (this auto adds the correct Package repositories)
- And in the Software Selection only select:
- - Console productivity
- - Standard system utilities

Uncheck everything else, or you’ll add a bunch of bloat and/or a Desktop that old hardware struggles with.

[3]
https://www.trinitydesktop.org/index.php
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/DevuanInstall

[4]
https://www.libreoffice.org/
https://wiki.debian.org/LibreOffice
https://www.winehq.org/
https://wiki.debian.org/Wine


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