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Would you get a mac?
Yes 58%  58%  [ 84 ]
No 42%  42%  [ 61 ]
Total votes : 145
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:15 pm 
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Is this battle still going on? :wink:

Seal - The iBook is much more rugged than the powerbook.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:28 pm 
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how about this then

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-5171944.html

I've just got a couple of tiny 160gb SATA's :D

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 Post subject: Man 4 pages of almost flame
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 4:27 pm 
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I've been Intel/x86 since I got an IBM PC / XT (Monochrome CGA, 10 gig hard card, dual joysticks heh). I've actually never purchased an Intel chip since then, had a couple of cyrix's, and mostly AMD's (k6-3, Tbird 1.2, Athlons 1.6, 2.0, 2.5, etc). I couldn't justify the extra expense I guess, rather spend it on RAM and hard drives.

I also have two ancient Powermac 7000s. The 7600 is actually a very nice hardware model (thought way expensive, a wintel machine was just much cheaper because of mass production, etc etc.) It has 8 ram slots, 8 * 256 = 2 GB! A quick google says the introduction date was April 1996. Intel released the Pentium 166 in Jan 1996. Macs had certain design elegance, relatively good components (SCSI drives and such).

Playing games with the Mac was worse than trying to play games with OS/2. At least OS/2 emulated DOS windows pretty well.

Timeline of Intel CPUs:

http://www.ox.compsoc.net/~swhite/histo ... e-CPU.html

My mother was a graphic designer and it was a Mac world. Quark express for the PC was horrible (probably a lot better now, it has been 10 years). Nowadays I don't see any inherent reason they would still use a Mac - Illustrator and Photoshop are great on the PC, in fact, I find it handier to right click commands than having to OPTION-Click.

Second thing that annoyed me most about Mac's is that when something broke, it broke and I had no idea how to fix it. hmm no video, okay, I can't just pop in another video card to test it. How do I get into the BIOS to get this to boot to the CD? What? Holding down C doesn't work, computer is acting weird. Okay, hold down this CUDA switch, I guess that's like wiping the BIOS I'll try that. All right, I'm exposing my ignorance too much, I'll shut up now.

I do have to admit the macs are pretty thought. [/img]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:33 pm 
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If I had unlimited money, then sure I'd get a Mac. I'm a hardware junkie, what did you expect? In fact, with unlimited money, I'd get a few hundred G5 XServes for the genetics lab of my "Pleistocene Park" extinct large-mammal cloning lab.

More realistically, if the question is "Would Justin_R pay full price for a new Mac to use as my sole PC for the forseeable future?" then the answer is "Definitely not." In fact, I don't think there's any forseeable situation in which I'd pay full price for a desktop Mac, but that may have more to do with my personal finances than with the quality of the computer. If I were buying a new notebook to complement the computers (x86 PCs and Macs) I already have, it would either be an AlBook or a Banias, but I don't expect to be doing so in the near (or distant) future. If I was just interested in buying any one single desktop computer, x86 PCs are too good, too compatible, too customizable, and too cheap to pass up. But the question phrased this way is silly; I would no more make do with only one PC than with only one book.

I do own some Macs. Four of them, actually: an SE, a PowerComputing clone, a Powerbook G3 Pismo, and an early TiBook with a semi-bad LCD. The only one I actually bought was the PowerComputing clone, and I only paid thirty dollars for that. I was given the rest (the SE last year by a stranger, the Powerbooks secondhand when each was about 2 years old... ah, the perks of having friends in high places). I also own enough parts to make about 4 x86 PCs, three of which are presently assembled (but only one of which is normally hooked up to a monitor, keyboard, etc.). I use my Pismo and a Win2K 1GHz P3 interchangably for basic office productivity stuff, and the P3 for more heavy-hitting multimedia work, and certain things that aren't as readily available for the Mac. Both of them are nice and eminently usable, although each has its share of problems.

If I could only have one computer (and if everthing about it had to be acquired at market value, i.e. no friends who work for MS and get hefty employee discounts), I'd build an x86 based Linux box. I'm relatively poor and I'm definitely cheap, so it would be good enough. And I'd rather support business models geared towards software libre than the artificial scarcity of the traditional software market.

Incidentally, I started writing a long post (even longer than this one!) in reply to this topic on my Powerbook G3 Pismo last night (fully updated OSX 10.2, Firefox 0.8 ). I opened it again today to finish the post and was greeted with the OS X kernel panic screen.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:50 am 
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Quote:
My mother was a graphic designer and it was a Mac world. Quark express for the PC was horrible (probably a lot better now, it has been 10 years).


Trust me Quark has gone down the toilet on the Mac side as well. They just didn't keep up with Adobe, it was just a matter of time before Adobe put out InDesign. Quark saw the writting on the wall, just didn't do anything about it.

Quote:
Nowadays I don't see any inherent reason they would still use a Mac - Illustrator and Photoshop are great on the PC,


Better on a Mac, screen resolution, speed, ease of use, etc. And PC's don't have a great record for uptime, publishing deadlines require computers that work reliabily. That's why in mission critical situations, you want a Mac.

What kind of artist uses cheap brushes? Even house painters buy Purdee brushes, not because they are more expensive, but because it saves them money in labor, make their job eaisier, last longer and do a professional job.

Quote:
in fact, I find it handier to right click commands than having to OPTION-Click.


Folks can buy any kind of mouse or input device they like and program it the way they like. I did graphic design for many years, the one button mouse is not a limitation, actually it allows you to change position and grab it and click without looking, use the left hand. Two button mice doesn't have as much flexability, stressing arm muscles after a long day.

Also there are dozens of keyboard shortcut combinations the left hand uses all the time. Most programs like Illustrator use them extensively. Like holding Command to get a pointer, then holding shift to select multiple items and option to copy, holding shift to constrain along a axis, etc.

I find it eaiser to do this all on one hand, than trying to juggle between a right click and left click. You just hold and let go of certain keys as you go.


Quote:
Second thing that annoyed me most about Mac's is that when something broke, it broke and I had no idea how to fix it. hmm no video, okay, I can't just pop in another video card to test it.


Not a PC video card of course and vise versa. You get another one used or new from ATI or the other one. LOL forgot. :)

Quote:
How do I get into the BIOS to get this to boot to the CD? What? Holding down C doesn't work, computer is acting weird. Okay, hold down this CUDA switch, I guess that's like wiping the BIOS I'll try that. All right, I'm exposing my ignorance too much, I'll shut up now.


Well any headache we have on Macs is considerably less than on PC's, we got PC people at the Apple forums who just bought their first G5 and swear up and down they will never go back.

Quote:
After 18 years with PCs, I switched to Macs. I have a Powermac G4 and a G5. I am very pleased that I changed. Nevertheless, I think the rule of thumb on such purchases is the same. Buy as much machine as you can afford...
James Dahlberg first post

PC users are switching in droves

Quote:
I do have to admit the macs are pretty thought



And bad ass as well


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:04 am 
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Quote:
Incidentally, I started writing a long post (even longer than this one!) in reply to this topic on my Powerbook G3 Pismo last night (fully updated OSX 10.2, Firefox 0.8 ). I opened it again today to finish the post and was greeted with the OS X kernel panic screen


Jaquar was beta. Get Panther, your going to love the Expose feature on a small screen.

I'm sure you could find someone to let you borrow the cds, no nasty M$ phone home features in Apple OS.

Unitl you get a chance to buy the full version of course, we want those hard working programmers to feed their families, right?

:)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:08 am 
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Here's more about the X-Grid, I have been reading about it, seems a lot of universities are using it. Nothing new of course, been done before, except it's eaiser for anyone with enough computers to set up cluster themselves.

http://www.macos.utah.edu:16080/xgrid/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:02 am 
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Sailfish wrote:
Better on a Mac, screen resolution, speed, ease of use, etc. And PC's don't have a great record for uptime, publishing deadlines require computers that work reliabily. That's why in mission critical situations, you want a Mac.


Come on, that is pure flamebait right there.

Screen resolution? Please explain...

Speed... lets not drag that up again.

"PC's don't have a great record for uptime -- That's why in mission critical situations, you want a Mac" - this is where I have to bite my lip. What do you think most webservers are? THEY ARE PC! Uptime is massive on 'proper' PC's, Linux or XP - (i.e. NOT crap windows 95 boxes with cheap hardware). PLEASE CHECK YOUR FACTS BEFORE MOUTHING OFF COMPLETE NONSENSE.

:evil:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:07 am 
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Sailfish wrote:
What kind of artist uses cheap brushes? Even house painters buy Purdee brushes, not because they are more expensive, but because it saves them money in labor, make their job eaisier, last longer and do a professional job.


Likewise with this nonsense comment. (i.e if I make, lets say, a 50 by 50 orange square in photoshop on a PC, and save it as, lets say, a TIFF, somehow doing the same thing on a Mac is going to be easier, quicker, or more professional?).

:roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:02 am 
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joecuba wrote:
Sailfish wrote:
Better on a Mac, screen resolution, speed, ease of use, etc. And PC's don't have a great record for uptime, publishing deadlines require computers that work reliably. That's why in mission critical situations, you want a Mac.


Come on, that is pure flamebait right there.

Screen resolution? Please explain...

Speed... lets not drag that up again.

"PC's don't have a great record for uptime -- That's why in mission critical situations, you want a Mac" - this is where I have to bite my lip. What do you think most webservers are? THEY ARE PC! Uptime is massive on 'proper' PC's, Linux or XP - (i.e. NOT crap windows 95 boxes with cheap hardware). PLEASE CHECK YOUR FACTS BEFORE MOUTHING OFF COMPLETE NONSENSE.

:evil:



Have, fact Linux is the most breached OS, then Windows and Mac's at zero, check the thread I 've made link posts.

And since I only got 1 disk based virus in 20 YEARS of using Macintoshes, I say they have much more uptime than PC's.

All we hear is Windows patch this and virus that, but in every office, every school, every lab Mac's keep chugging away. We Mac users just shake our heads in dismay. The moment you have to update your virus definitions your down. If you get a virus your really down.

Most PC folks here agree Windows sucks, but your stuck with it, Linux has a chance if more folks write applications, but we know what happens if someone goes up against the evil Redmond, SCO Litigation Inc.

But Linux security is not something to brag about, being the most insecure of all.

And now your mighty leader Gates wants to charge for emails, is he out of touch with reality? All he wants to bleed people dry, when a simple fix of his OS and email programs will stop spam cold.

Mac OS X did and those nasty pop-up windows annoying little buggers. Gone, poof, bye-bye.

So the only bastion of relative calm and peace is Mac OS X and you'll have to buy a Mac to get it.


What I mean by resolution is Apple takes great care that the look and feel of Mac OS X is sharp, all text is clear and not jagged, this requires a higher quality display in the OS and of the monitor. Of course if you hook a cheap VGA monitor to a Mac you deserve to be tortured. This is why frame rates on Macs are usually slower than PC with games, it takes longer to draw a better quality screen.

With our new G5's though games are nice and fast now, and very detailed and sharp. UT2003, drew my breath away, incredible detail.


I have a wonderful 1900 x 1200 resolution flat LCD, Apples finest and PC you built it Mag says it's the best hands down. hook one up to your PC ok, but! your OS still will give you inferior type resolution and ugly OS, this transfers to graphic design.

If your going to draw a box, then anything will do. but since video, high resolution photographs and renderings are common place on Macs, the entire line is filled with high quality displays.

So in concussion, if you ever sat down to my Dual G5 and 23" Display baby for a week, you would not go back to a PC, unless your a sadist or something. STOP SERVING GATES, that's the only way to stop, COLD TURKEY, people don't realize without restricting walls and fences, who needs Gates and Windoze? Dump everything M$, that's the only way to true freedom, trust me I know. and a lot of folks are happy they did.

you a sadist? just asking lol

not trolling, I can't beleive people are suffering for no reason


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:12 am 
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First off both Mac and Pc are pretty good with PS(i have both)

Where the mac scores is with Colorsync, let me explain.
If you open a document in a workspace say Adobe RGB edit it and save it, then drag the Tiff onto the Quark App shortcut to open Quark, how do you know the colour will be the same? On a PC you don't because the Windows colour management is "automatic" and relies totally on the individual apps.
Whereas Apple has colorsync where you can edit ICC profiles repair them, and check that the correct profile for each device is being used by each piece of hardware/software because the system (OSX) manages the colour NOT the individual Apps themselves.

another huge advantage (for me) is the system wide keystroke shortcuts.
In Win Office if you want the degree kelvin symbol you type alt T (logical)
but in other apps it's alt 0125 (not as easy)
with Mac it's alt k (for kelvin) in all programs quark PS dreamweaver the only exception is you guessed it MS Office X (alt T)

so with a Mac special characters are system wide and easier to find and normally don't vary from app to app.
A huge benefit to designers.

® ¢™©¥ all from alt + 1 other key

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:51 am 
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Sailfish wrote:
Linux is the most breached OS, then Windows and Mac's at zero, check the thread I 've made link posts.


Lies, damed lies, and statistics. I take it this is for servers? You realise that there are MANY, MANY more Linux servers than any other type?

Sailfish wrote:
The moment you have to update your virus definitions your down. If you get a virus your really down.


More nonsense. My anti-virus updates automaticaly, and it doesn't need a reboot. Again, please get your facts right.

Sailfish wrote:
And now your mighty leader Gates wants to charge for emails, is he out of touch with reality?


He aint my leader by any stretch of the imagination. The email plan is outright stupid. If I was the richest human on earth, I would be out of touch with reality as well.

Sailfish wrote:
those nasty pop-up windows annoying little buggers. Gone, poof, bye-bye.


I haven't had pop-ups for 3 years now.

Sailfish wrote:
What I mean by resolution is Apple takes great care that the look and feel of Mac OS X is sharp, all text is clear and not jagged, this requires a higher quality display in the OS and of the monitor.


Ok, so you AREN'T TALKING ABOUT RESOLUTION AT ALL! "higher quality display in the OS and of the monitor" what the heck are you talking about?

Sailfish wrote:
I have a wonderful 1900 x 1200 resolution flat LCD, Apples finest and PC you built it Mag says it's the best hands down. hook one up to your PC ok, but! your OS still will give you inferior type resolution and ugly OS, this transfers to graphic design.


Mac screens are overpriced and out of date. You are paying for the "cool" design. If it makes you happy, fine, but don't presume that it makes you a better artist for using it. I am not going to even comment on the last sentence of yet more... flamebait drivel.

Sailfish wrote:
If your going to draw a box, then anything will do. but since video, high resolution photographs and renderings are common place on Macs, the entire line is filled with high quality displays.


So thats why all the filmmakers I know are moving to Avid on PC's?

Sailfish wrote:
STOP SERVING GATES, that's the only way to stop, COLD TURKEY, people don't realize without restricting walls and fences, who needs Gates and Windoze? Dump everything M$, that's the only way to true freedom, trust me I know. and a lot of folks are happy they did.


Do you use Office? Word?

I am not serving Gates, I just use Windows operating systems. It isn't a political statement. But maybe I will dump Microsoft like Apple dumped OS9...

Sailfish wrote:
not trolling, I can't beleive people are suffering for no reason


Stop being so patronising. The only suffering I am doing is having to read your nonsense.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:57 am 
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Bluebeetle69 wrote:
First off both Mac and Pc are pretty good with PS(i have both)

Where the mac scores is with Colorsync, let me explain.

<snip>.

another huge advantage (for me) is the system wide keystroke shortcuts.

<snip>

® ¢™©¥ all from alt + 1 other key


Good points, those two things sound like useful and well implemented features.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:21 am 
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Film makers moving to avid like this you mean:

The film cost mountain done on a Mac

http://www.apple.com/pro/film/murch/

or these
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/mar/01shake.html

http://www.apple.com/pro/video/swaffield/

http://www.apple.com/pro/video/romanek/

http://www.apple.com/uk/education/articles/pathe/

We use both Avid and FCP for our film archive but Avid is WAY more expensive than final cut

Avid Xpress for Windows is offered as pre-configured systems including software, IBM IntelliStation M Pro workstation, and video subsystem hardware. New USMSRP prices for pre-configured systems are as follows: the Plus bundle has been reduced by 27% to $15,999; Deluxe bundle has been reduced by 21% to $22,999; and Elite bundle has been reduced by 25% to $32,999

quit a bit more than a G5 + display+FCP at about $6000

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:01 pm 
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joecuba wrote:
Sailfish wrote:
I have a wonderful 1900 x 1200 resolution flat LCD, Apples finest and PC you built it Mag says it's the best hands down. hook one up to your PC ok, but! your OS still will give you inferior type resolution and ugly OS, this transfers to graphic design.

Mac screens are overpriced and out of date. You are paying for the "cool" design. If it makes you happy, fine, but don't presume that it makes you a better artist for using it. I am not going to even comment on the last sentence of yet more... flamebait drivel.

At the risk of reignition, this is the one part where his statement had any value. The part about the monitor. AFAICT, the Apple 23" display is the best deal of its kind. All the other 1920x1200 monitors cost slightly more than that.

To the PC's credit, the smaller monitors can be had for a lot cheaper than what Apple offers, sort of. Apple's 20" offering is 1680x1050, which follows the same aspect ratio as their 23" monitor. Every other 20" monitor I've encountered uses 1600x1200, which means you have a larger working area (and a more standardized AR of 4:3, rather than 16:10).

Also to the PC's credit are monitor manufacturers like 9X Media, whose products higher up on my wish list than a Mac :D

Whether Windows' type resolution is ugly or not compared to OSX, I won't comment.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:54 pm 
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Sailfish wrote:
Jaquar was beta. Get Panther, your going to love the Expose feature on a small screen.
Jaguar was not beta; don't be absurd. You wouldn't let a Windows fan call a second update to their OS "beta". I was toying around with Expose on a TiBook and I don't really dig it. I prefer apple-tab and apple-tilde for window switching, because I prefer keyboard control to mouse control.

Quote:
I'm sure you could find someone to let you borrow the cds, no nasty M$ phone home features in Apple OS.
I actually have mac .dmg files of 10.3, but they're on my PC and I can't figure out a reasonable way to burn them, since no PC burning software seems to like them. I don't have a Mac CD burner, and I really don't want to transfer 1.5GB of stuff to my laptop just to convert it from dmg to iso and transfer it back.

Quote:
Unitl you get a chance to buy the full version of course, we want those hard working programmers to feed their families, right?
I bought a copy of System 7 that I never used, so I guess I could consider 10.3 my System 7. Apple's pricing structure for OS upgrades is kind of bogus. People rightly point out that the retail cost is about the same, since with Windows, you pay $300 once for 3 years, but with OSX, you pay $100 once a year. But if you buy a Windows box with the OS pre-installed, your covered as far as OS cost is concerned, whereas if you buy a Mac, you do have to pay for OS upgrades. And I'm familiar with the arguments about new features, etc., but it's still pretty lame. I don't need Garage Band, but the improvements to the core (that supposedly really help G3s) would be nice. If I wanted to spend lots of money for bloated features, I could buy Windows.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:36 pm 
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And, by the way, I had to replace two yo-yo AC adapters for my powerbook because they had a design flaw (where the wire goes into the plug wasn't reinforced, so it would eventually short). I call it a design flaw because later yo-yo adpaters had the wire around the plug reinforced. AND, I had to open up the Pismo and resolder the housing for the PSU connection because it had come loose from the PCB. AND, more towards the silent PC angle, while it's nice that the CPU is passively cooled except when being taxed pretty hard, the stock hard drives in my Pismo, my sister's Pismo, and my TiBook were all pretty noisy. I'm probably going to replace my Pismo drive with one of the Toshiba's that MikeC is raving about.

Macs are nice machines with nice software, and are well-suited to a good range of uses. They probably deserve more attention and more market share than they presently have. But they're not the best thing for everyone, and there's plenty of legitimate reasons to not consider one when purchasing a PC.

People who prefer Apple are right to criticize Microsoft's business practices, but there are plenty of nasty things that Apple does as well. Their pattern of abandoning support for legacy products is kind of shocking, and has been going on for 10+ years. The core of OSX may be open source, but they're very closed about the Quartz-layer APIs. There was a big stink about allowing third-party developers to use the little menu bar icons on the right of the menu bar, with Apple even going so far as to block third-party apps that had hacked there way into being displayed. Apple's design sensibility is far from infallible. John Siracusa at arstechnica and ex-Apple design guru Bruce Tognazzini have written extensively about the UI de-improvements in OSX. And Apple has a long-held nasty habit of rolling third-party improvements to the OS into the main OS without compensating the original developers (the incorporation of Watson as Sherlock being the most egregious recent example). There's more.

Some stuff that I like about Macs: 1) Quartz is pretty awesome 2) Apple's positive attitude towards open source stuff 3) Abstracted window manager concept for stuff like Classic and X11 4) Open Firmware is pretty awesome

If you want to convince people to like Macs, don't think you have to do it at the expense of PCs. Choosing a computer is not a zero-sum game.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:07 pm 
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Apples quality and business decisions are no match against the PURE EVIL coming out of Redmond.

Need I say SCO again?

And no I don't use any M$ software, no WMP, no Office (Appleworks is much faster), no Virtual PC garbage, I wouldn't be caught dead loading their controlling garbage on my Mac, installing all kinds of unknown and bug ridden filth all over opening me up to security problems.

My baby is lean mean and M$ clean. What a joy, what a joy!

Everything works FLAWLESSLY!


The argument is, if you had enough money would you buy a mac?

The answer most people would say is YES.

If I had enough money, I would buy a nice house, servants, a fancy car or two. (already have)

I would make my life easier. The same goes with Mac's, I would pay a bit more, get quality and leave all the flipping dip switches, updating virus definitions, windows crashing every other day behind me.

But Mac's are not that expensive that only the super rich can afford them, just out of reach of most people who every dollar is important and they have to make that up with sweat equity.

So they figure how to throw their box together as cheaply as possible, tweak it every other weekend, etc etc.

Just like joe student who has to work on his old car every weekend, once he gets a better income flow, he gets himself a nice new car, with warranty and dealer support, because he's busy making money, he's worth more working that spending time fiddling with a cheap car.

I never had a problem, I always chose to buy the slightly more expensive Mac's because I was spending my effort making money and less time telling my customers my computer is down.

I know a couple of print shops that are still using 15 year old Macintosh SE's for their design work and laser printers because they still work just fine.

This is why Apple has a low market share of sales every year, but a large number in installed base.

PC's are disposable and cost more money over time.

Always have, that's why you got to break them apart and fiddle with the insides all the time.

My Dual 2 Ghz G5 will serve me for a long long time, several years, maybe even longer.

There would have to be a new technological craze that only a new box can fill, like virtual worlds or something to motivate a new generation of hardware.

But for now, my baby has 10x more power than I could possibly use.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:00 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:06 pm 
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Sailfish wrote:
Apples quality and business decisions are no match against the PURE EVIL coming out of Redmond.

The problem with heaping praise upon praise on Macs and trashing PCs is that the hardware and software are made by companies OTHER than Microsoft and SCO. But I shouldn't expect a Mac addict like you to understand that.

Sailfish wrote:
Need I say SCO again?
You can say SCO. I'll just say IBM.

Sailfish wrote:
And no I don't use any M$ software, no WMP, no Office (Appleworks is much faster), no Virtual PC garbage, I wouldn't be caught dead loading their controlling garbage on my Mac, installing all kinds of unknown and bug ridden filth all over opening me up to security problems.

Oh, so now Microsoft opens up security holes on the Mac? I thought you were just praising the Mac a minute ago for being security-hole free.

Sailfish wrote:
My baby is lean mean and M$ clean. What a joy, what a joy!
But it's still a Mac. :roll:

Sailfish wrote:
The argument is, if you had enough money would you buy a mac?
The answer most people would say is YES.
If I had enough money, I would buy a nice house, servants, a fancy car or two. (already have)

Remember at the beginning of this thread, I posted a link to a Penny Arcade comic?

Sailfish wrote:
I would make my life easier. The same goes with Mac's, I would pay a bit more, get quality and leave all the flipping dip switches, updating virus definitions, windows crashing every other day behind me.

I make my life easier by not owing money to Apple.

Sailfish wrote:
But Mac's are not that expensive that only the super rich can afford them, just out of reach of most people who every dollar is important and they have to make that up with sweat equity.

Now you're ragging on the working class? You ARE an Elitist Asshole.

Sailfish wrote:
So they figure how to throw their box together as cheaply as possible, tweak it every other weekend, etc etc.

You mistake my enthusiasm on this forum for actual tweaking. I haven't touched my insides of my computer except to bring it up to 2.0GHz per processor. And I only did that because I wanted to fold faster for SPCR and do my part.

In fact, come to think of it, all my machines have been running wonderfully for a while. The only tweaking I've done is for hobby sake. If I had more important things to do, I wouldn't have cut out the fan grill on my PC, nor would I have swapped out the heatsinks on the PC I have now. It has always worked damn fine for me. Of course, if I had better things to do, I wouldn't be sitting here trying to argue against a Mac Troll.

Sailfish wrote:
Just like joe student who has to work on his old car every weekend, once he gets a better income flow, he gets himself a nice new car, with warranty and dealer support, because he's busy making money, he's worth more working that spending time fiddling with a cheap car.

Funny you should bring this up. I was at an interesting crossroads in my car ownership life two weeks ago. My cheap old car needed a new transmission and I was seriously debating purchasing a newer car. In the end, I decided against buying a new car because it would cost me more money than the transmission is worth. And the car has been good to me. This is the first and only major repair I've had done to it in two years (except when my tire blew out on the freeway and that was my fault). And considering the abuse it's taken from the city of Pittsburgh, that's not bad for a car that's 16 years old.

Oh yeah and I never tinker with it, because I don't know s*** about cars.

Sailfish wrote:
I never had a problem, I always chose to buy the slightly more expensive Mac's because I was spending my effort making money and less time telling my customers my computer is down.

Good for you. I've never had to tell a customer or even my boss that my computer is down.

Sailfish wrote:
I know a couple of print shops that are still using 15 year old Macintosh SE's for their design work and laser printers because they still work just fine.

Funny, I know a print shop that uses 15 year old Macs for their work too. And when I bought a cheap-ass Dell for one their workers (a relative), she felt that it absolutely smoked her Macs. No big surprise there, but your bragging clearly has very little meaning.

Sailfish wrote:
PC's are disposable and cost more money over time.
Always have, that's why you got to break them apart and fiddle with the insides all the time.

That's funny. The only time I ever broke open my Toshiba Laptop was the day I got it, so I could install more memory (it was cheaper that way). Never opened it up again. You Mac guys do the same, IIRC

It lasted me almost 5 years, and now it keeps my 12 year old brother entertained to this very day.

Sailfish wrote:
My Dual 2 Ghz G5 will serve me for a long long time, several years, maybe even longer.

Good for you. Can you guess how long I've had my Dual PIII/550 for? Can you guess how long I intend to keep it around?

Sailfish wrote:
There would have to be a new technological craze that only a new box can fill, like virtual worlds or something to motivate a new generation of hardware.

Oh, but there is. I like to call it........ The Computer Game. :o

Quote:
But for now, my baby has 10x more power than I could possibly use.

So you admit that you completely threw away your money by buying more computer than you could possibly use? Not just slightly more, but 10X more. I'd come up with a snide remark, but I don't want to apologize again for being excessively rude.

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this isn't my desktop, I wouldn't have that piece of dog filth IE on my computer, notice on it's left is the Safari icon, the new Mac web brower, it's in memory you can tell by the little black pointer.

just about every mac user dumped IE the instant Safari came out, most PC users I know don't like IE either

so no argument there


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:13 pm 
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Sailfish wrote:

Is that supposed to impress me? I have a pretty picture in the background too. But I've found that I have too many applications open to ever really see it (never slows down my computer though).

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There are working class folks who know how to make smart decsions and get wealthy by those decsions.

Are you going to continue wasting your time fixing that clunker, or spend it figuring how to make more money so you can buy the things to make your life enjoyable?

Really I see folks wasting their time fixing a PC is about as dumb as fixing a cheap alarm clock, chuck the bastard and get something that works.

Guess that's why Mac users were rated smarter than PC users

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-943519.html?tag=cd_mh


Sailfish drops a nuke. Game Over.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:31 pm 
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PS thanks for the flame war guys, all in good fun. Learned a few things, got a good vent in as well.

You too I bet, just don't go kicking your dog over it now.

LOL


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:45 pm 
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Sailfish wrote:
There are working class folks who know how to make smart decsions and get wealthy by those decsions.

And do you honestly believe that your Mac made the difference?

Quote:
Are you going to continue wasting your time fixing that clunker, or spend it figuring how to make more money so you can buy the things to make your life enjoyable?

I already am. Houses, Weddings and Honeymoons are coming close to breaking the bank for me.

Sailfish wrote:
Really I see folks wasting their time fixing a PC is about as dumb as fixing a cheap alarm clock, chuck the bastard and get something that works.

Funny, I associate people wasting their time fixing a PC is about as dumb as sailing a boat. It can be a fun way to spend your free time, but you wouldn't necessarily want to do it all the time. And most of us who tinker with it do it for fun, not out of necessity.

Sailfish wrote:
Guess that's why Mac users were rated smarter than PC users
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-943519.html?tag=cd_mh
Sailfish drops a nuke. Game Over.

Not really, I expect that people who are wealthier are also smarter than the average person (with the exception of the current US president, whom I only consider to be just as smart as the average person).

Likewise, I expect Aston Martin owners to be smarter than the average car owner as well. Hardly a nuke there.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:46 pm 
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Sailfish wrote:
Image

If that's you then AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! :o J/K

Sailfish wrote:
PS thanks for the flame war guys, all in good fun. Learned a few things, got a good vent in as well.

You too I bet, just don't go kicking your dog over it now.

Course I did. I wouldn't have kept up otherwise :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:09 am 
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sthayashi wrote:
Sailfish wrote:

Is that supposed to impress me? I have a pretty picture in the background too. But I've found that I have too many applications open to ever really see it (never slows down my computer though).



might not impress you... but it impresses me!!!! nice wall, where did you get that from? Also what res u running at?

BTW on a side note, are apple ibooks/powerbooks noisy/audible? Do the fans rev up under high loads? Im thinking of having it 24/7 and folding with it.

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BTW on a side note, are apple ibooks/powerbooks noisy/audible?

the ibooks are passive cooled i believe (mine is) you can hear the HD at startup but thats about it.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:49 am 
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i have my dual G5 folding 24/7, and the fans have never kicked on above their lowest settings.

i can't hear my machine, but i also have 7 external drive cases with small fans in them that make more noise than the machine. i'm sure i could hear it if the room were silent, but it's a low pitch on the G5 relative to other fans. (7 or 9?) fans means pretty low RPM's. (which i'm sure you silent PC types know is good for reducing noise.)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:59 pm 
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Best thing for reducing noise is no (or as little as possible) fans running at a low RPM.

Come to think of it, these fancy Mac devices must be overclocked or something, hense they run hot, hense all the fans and all the motherboards that breakdown.

;-) joking

Sailfish - I was going to do a smart reply to your tirade against the PC, but life is too short -DELETED-

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