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When you use two hands to steer your car, what method do you use?
 Push-Pull/Shuffle Method 37% [ 7 ] Hand-over-Hand Method 58% [ 11 ] Handlebar Method 0% [ 0 ] Fixed-Arm Method 5% [ 1 ]
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 Post subject: How do you steer your car?Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:28 am

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:06 am
Posts: 3214
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
I'm curious to know this. Here's an article with some diagrams.

I want to know about steering techniques with two hands. I steer with one hand myself if I don't have to do much turning on the highways. But on the city streets, I use two hands, as does everyone who drives the mad streets of Pittsburgh.

Be honest. The "recommended" method is the Shuffle method, but I generally use the Hand-over-Hand method. I'm trying different versions of the shuffle method, but I don't particularly care for it and I'm trying to determine why.

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:23 am

Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:49 am
Posts: 3011
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
Well, i never use two hands to steer I need one one hand for throttle/brake, legs no worky due to spinal cord injury..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/ ... T_4229.jpg <--bigger pic

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:28 am
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:54 am
Posts: 444
Location: Isle of Arran
I'm a shuffler. I was taught that way when learning and I guess it's become a habit. I do use one hand on occasion when doing three-point turns in a hurry, but, for junctions, it's the shuffle every time.

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:48 am

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:05 am
Posts: 1443
Location: Turkey
If you think Pittsburg is mad, come to Istanbul (actually there's a warning for this in US consulate brochures )

For in-city driving, I use a one-handed method but I keep my left hand at the 10 position and my right on the clutch (no automatic gear on %99 of cars here, plus it's a great disadvantage ). With a three-point steering wheel it allows great flexibility at low to mid speed.

For highways, after dark, high-speed, etc, I use the correct shuffle method.

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:38 am
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Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 4000
Location: Phoenix, AZ
My style varies with speed:

Parkings lots and side streets its "one handed wit da gangsta lean". Well, maybe not the gangsta part, but its certainly one handed. As the speed comes up I'm actually pretty close to their "recommended", I guess. When the speeds get serious, the M School training comes back out, and its Fixed Arm all the way.

Lately I've been using the Handlebar exclusively however. Ever since I sold the car and went back to riding the bike.

Anyone else catch the wmv someone posted in the forum thread attached to that? Very cool.

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:48 am

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:02 pm
Posts: 547
Location: Bangkok Thailand
Been doing shuffling as long as I could recall. During slow sharp turn or u-turn, I would do a 'palm-up-cross-hand' i.e. if turning left my right hand will grab the 10 o'clock position with palm up and 'pull' the wheel that way with left hand at 1 o'clock only to help.

I guess it depends on habit, as well as design/material of the steering wheel itself. For instance, when driving my wife's car which has a different angle of the wheel - I would grip and move the wheel differently.

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:25 pm

Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:24 am
Posts: 1738
Location: 'Sunny' Cornwall U.K.
Think... I'm correct in saying that the U.K. Police are now told to 'cross' hand.

The reasoning being shuffle was 'designed' before power steering due to the much heavier steering... and 'hand over' is more suitable for faster steering which obviously is better during responce calls and in general 'avoidance' situations...

Don't recall seeing any rally drivers 'shuffling'... (Except when asked akward questions about their bad performance... )

I prefer the 'one handed' approach myself.... ( makes nose picking much easier...)

Pete
(Speeling not checked: 'Candian Spirit' too effective.....)

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:36 pm
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:53 pm
Posts: 2696
Location: Scarsdale, NY
Highway: Left hand on wheel at 10:00 with thumb inside rim, right hand on shifter (even on automatics, where I always do kickdowns w/throttle blip); signal and steer with left arm only.

Local Streets: Hands in same positions, but hand over hand for turning, and I can do lock to lock in under two seconds without hitting the bumpstops hard on any car I've spent at least 30 minutes in, even our Murano (extremely heavy steering at low speeds; it's a known problem with the Murano, along with the, "haunted," rear cup holder and the extremely loud wind buffeting noise at highway speeds with rear windows down--i.e. much worse than other cars, as bad is it is already).

Parking: Same as local streets.

Backing up: Right arm behind passenger seat, left arm inside steering wheel rim at 12:00 when centered for turning the wheel right, outside of the rim with thumb inside for turning the wheel left.

-Ed

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:37 pm
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Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 12:55 pm
Posts: 1063
Location: Richland, WA
Hmm... for me the style depends which car I'm driving.

In my daily car, an '89 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo hatchback, my hands are almost always at 10-2 or 9-3. And if I do need to turn sharp, it will be done with the shuffling motion, I can't stand crossing my hands/arms when turning. The two exceptions I can think of is some low speed maneuvers and low traffic open road cruising. Low speed stuff I'm likely to one hand it and palm the steering wheel around, especially when coming back to straight ahead from a full lock turn. Open road with low traffic and I'll relax from the 9-3 hand position to one hand; elbow on the door with left hand at 9, right hand inside the wheel a 6, or right hand draped over top at 12. But for the most part, 9-3 positioning, shuffling hands on sharp turns.

In my 'weekend' car, an old '71 Dodge Coronet with way overpowered steering, the rule is one hand, the exception is two hands. Nearly anything around town and I have my right hand with wrist draped over the wheel at 12. Any turn that needs to move the wheel more than 90 degrees and I will palm the wheel around. On the freeway I'll use the same one hander positions as in my little Mitsu. Even on a twisty road I'll often use just one hand to steer; with a worn out bench seat I need the other arm/hand to hold myself in place, either braced on the door or the seatback.

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:06 pm

Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 8:29 am
Posts: 1076
Location: USA
Usually have my left hand a 9 o'clock and my right on my shifter even though it's an auto (luxury cars w/ manual are hard to come by in the states).

I use shuffling for low speed sturing and crossing over for high speed stuff.

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:27 am

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:06 am
Posts: 3214
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
ultraboy wrote:
I guess it depends on habit, as well as design/material of the steering wheel itself. For instance, when driving my wife's car which has a different angle of the wheel - I would grip and move the wheel differently.

This may be true. I learned how to steer by watching how my parents steered. Coincidentally, when I was first paying attention to their steering, around the age of 9 or 10, they were driving the same sort of car that I'm driving now, a 1988 Toyota Camry.
peteamer wrote:
The reasoning being shuffle was 'designed' before power steering due to the much heavier steering... and 'hand over' is more suitable for faster steering which obviously is better during responce calls and in general 'avoidance' situations...

I had read that in one or two articles online. But I came across countless sources that recommended the shuffle method. I've been trying the shuffle method over the weekend and here's what I discovered.

I move my hands a lot more using the shuffle method. This might be because I'm doing it improperly or this might be because my wheel may not be meant for shuffle steering.

When I was doing shuffle steering, I would drop the opposite hand to the direction that I was turning. That hand would lift up, but never closs the 12:00 position. If I needed to turn the wheel farther, I would raise my adjacent hand up and catch the wheel, bringing it down further. So for example, suppose I wanted to make a right turn, I would drop my left hand from 9 to 7 and lift up. It would make it up as high as about 11:30, and my right hand would rise up to about 2 or 1 and hold the wheel there, or bring it down if necessary.

I don't know how much it is with newer cars, but with my car, the wheel can go 540 in either direction. Useful turning happens at around 180-360 in either direction. For parallel parking, it's not unusual for me to be 360 to the right, and turn the wheel 720 to left. Using Hand-over-Hand steering, I can easily turn the steering wheel 180 with the movement of just one hand, and can get 360 easily just moving each of my hands once. That was not the case for me with shuffle steering.

It's kind of moot right now, since my car doesn't have an airbag, but I'm curious to learn of other steering techniques, especially if they're considered proper. I want to get in the habit of proper driving when I drive an airbagged car one day.

So.... Shuffle steerering people, based on my description of steering, do you have any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong?

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:32 am

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:06 am
Posts: 3214
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Oh, one more thing...
Edward Ng wrote:
Highway: Left hand on wheel at 10:00 with thumb inside rim, right hand on shifter (even on automatics, where I always do kickdowns w/throttle blip)
DryFire wrote:
Usually have my left hand a 9 o'clock and my right on my shifter even though it's an auto (luxury cars w/ manual are hard to come by in the states).

This can't possibly be good for your automatic transmissions.

Please take this advice from someone who had to pay for a rebuilt transmission by applying for a 0%-APR-on-Balance-Transfers credit card. I used to do similar things in order to race up the hills around me faster.

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:18 am
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:53 pm
Posts: 2696
Location: Scarsdale, NY
sthayashi wrote:
Oh, one more thing...
Edward Ng wrote:
Highway: Left hand on wheel at 10:00 with thumb inside rim, right hand on shifter (even on automatics, where I always do kickdowns w/throttle blip)
DryFire wrote:
Usually have my left hand a 9 o'clock and my right on my shifter even though it's an auto (luxury cars w/ manual are hard to come by in the states).

This can't possibly be good for your automatic transmissions.

Please take this advice from someone who had to pay for a rebuilt transmission by applying for a 0%-APR-on-Balance-Transfers credit card. I used to do similar things in order to race up the hills around me faster.

I only do it occasionally for passing, which is not very often, for one.

Secondly, the throttle blip relieves a great deal of stress from the torque converter during the downshift as well as pretty much all of the rest of the drivetrain. If you're not matching rpm with kickdowns, you're definitely screwing up the tranny, auto, manual or otherwise, and I totally agree with what you're saying. I'm not banging it down, though--a good throttle blip is worth gold, a fact that is, sadly, quite lost to 99.9% of American drivers.

Steve if you get an opportunity some time, let me know and I can give you a ring on the phone; would be a pleasure to chat by voice.

-Ed

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:52 pm

Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:58 pm
Posts: 561
Hand-over-hand going into turn, shuffling coming out of turn.

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:57 pm

Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 8:29 am
Posts: 1076
Location: USA
sthayashi wrote:
Please take this advice from someone who had to pay for a rebuilt transmission by applying for a 0%-APR-on-Balance-Transfers credit card. I used to do similar things in order to race up the hills around me faster.

no don't worry about that I don't shift it myself I just have my hand there because it's comfortable and within quick acess of just about everything (stero cup holder etc..) and if i really wanted to my car does have a sport shift option (but it lags and it pretty pointless unless I'm on some back roads).

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:08 pm

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:41 am
Posts: 477
Location: Nashville, TN
I drive a stick so I very rarely have two hands on the wheel, but if you count driving my wife's car I guess I'm a cross-over.

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