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 Post subject: Small laser printer that doesnt curl paper?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:51 pm 
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I dont know if you noticed...but with the increased speed of laser printers, they tend to curl the paper more than before. I have been trying to find an automatic DUPLEX laser that wont curl them up real bad...especially bad when duplexing.

I tried a brother printer and it was pretty bad..not professional quality. Can you believe I am still using an HP laser from 10 years ago (doesnt do duplex though). Even though its slow, its still better than anything I can find from a paper curling standpoint. So weird...technology is supposed to get better, not worse.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:52 am 
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Hi hozer2k, the reason that newer laser printers can curl paper more is that the fusing/fixing rollers need to operate at a higher temperature, toner requires an amount of energy to melt it into the paper... the faster the paper speed the higher temperature needed in the fusing rollers.

Curl occurs because one fusing roller is solid and the other is made of sponge like silicon rubber.
Many modern papers are deliberately 'built' to curl one way (look for instructions or little arrows on the edges of the packet), this is so the machine tries to curl the paper one way and the paper wants to curl the other hopefully resulting in a fairly flat end product, of course installing the paper 'upsidedown' results in excessive curl. :D
This is done so the paper is flatter, resulting in less jams, on the second pass (duplexing).

Paper that is suffering from dampness will increase the likelyhood it will curl. If the paper is damp, as it goes through the fusing section the heat causes the moisture to turn into steam, softening the paper and allowing it to curl more before it dries out due to the heat. That's the reason most paper will come in a plasticised wrapper i.e. to provide it with a protective environment for storage.

In low usage situations, storing the paper in a drier area helps a lot, airing cupboards are great in the home environment as are boiler rooms... but don't let the paper get too dry because that can create problems too... :lol:


Pete
P.S. Next weeks lesson is Scoroton Grids...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:17 am 
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:D I love how even the most obscure stuff ((like why does laser printer paper curl, why is the sky blue, how do hard drives work), there is always someone on SPCR who knows and can explain it...Pete, i take it you are in the biz?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:35 am 
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jaganath wrote:
Pete, i take it you are in the biz?

Guilty as charged...



Pete
P.S. That was the abridged/carefull you don't look too geeky version..... :oops:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:45 am 
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peteamer wrote:
P.S. That was the abridged/carefull you don't look too geeky version..... :oops:

I'm afraid the damage has already been done... :P

I had absolutely no idea that paper was actually "built" to curl one way or another. Does it apply with cheap copier paper (which I guess gets used quite a lot in lasers), or just the more expensive stuff?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:23 am 
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Hi Nick, it's not an 'expense' item... any cost of paper may or may not have it. :?

Paper has been like this for 15-20 years now... (No I'm not that old... er... my older brother told me about it... yeah, that's it... )

The thing is finding the arrow (if it even has one), on some brands it's stupidly small and many people will miss it or not be able to see it for what it is... Think 4mm X 4mm bright yellow indistinct blob/arrow on bright blue packing and not perfect sight.....

And just because it's got an arrow... don't think it can be trusted to be pointing in the right direction... many a time I have had to say to customers "Yeah, I know the arrow is pointing that way but if we put the paper in upsidedown there's less curl look!!!"

As for the copier/laser point, as far as I know, nobody manufactures non-digital (analogue) copiers anymore. Copiers have been laser/LED printers with a built in scanner for some years now.

Whatever you do make sure the packet says copier/laser paper on it. Don't use anything for inkjet/bubblejet etc machines. I've seen some pretty horrible messes in copiers, quite often destroying the fusing rollers, particularly the stuff used to create image to transfer onto t-shirts.

If you use paper that's designed to curl, the wrong way... and it's sufficiently damp, the paper can come out and roll itself into a tube of about 25mm diameter :shock:
Needless to say it doesn't then doubleside very well :lol:



Common conversations I've had over the years:

"It's your paper causing the problem."
"You said that last time!!"
"And this time, as last time, when we put fresh paper from a fresh pack in the problem goes."
"Whys that then?"
"Because this time, as last time, the papers damp."
"You always blame it on the paper!"
"Yes, and when we change the paper, the problem goes doesn't it!!!"

[pause]..........[/pause]

"What's wrong with the copier then?..."
:shock:
-----------

(On arrival)
"The last three engineers have blamed it on the paper!"
"Does the problem go when you put fresh paper in?"
"Yes..... but the problem comes back after a couple of days!!!"
:roll:


Now that everyone has fallen asleep... I'll sign off :D
Pete


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:05 pm 
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Thanks for that response...some of that I knew, some I did not. Learn something everyday. Soooo...that being said, is there a good duplexing printer that wont have so much of an issue?

I dont care much about speed, I would rather have the quality. I tried a couple out, but no luck....I did try a couple different stock sizes and new vs old paper (but not the directional part though I admit). All of my results consistently found that the 10 yr old printer did a much better job than my new ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Small laser printer that doesnt curl paper?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:26 am 
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Pete

Thank you dearly for your answer. Nine years later, I find it useful!

Avi


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 Post subject: Re: Small laser printer that doesnt curl paper?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:54 am 
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Avi, you're more than welcome!

:)


Pete


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 Post subject: Re: Small laser printer that doesnt curl paper?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:52 pm 
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in the professional printing word, large printers only buy paper rated at certain, measured moisture content, so they can optimize their printing runs for maximum speed/ quality. they will return truck loads of paper that is not within their specified moisture specs.

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 Post subject: Re: Small laser printer that doesnt curl paper?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:18 pm 
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Another thing to take into account is where that specific batch/ream of paper came from off the manufacturing roll. Cheaper paper is often cut from the inside of the roll, giving the paper a much tighter curl. More premium paper is often from the outside. Cheaper paper will almost always have nasty curl.

As Pete said, humidity can mess with that a lot. New (10 years after the op) machines often have an adjustment for curl(such as Kyocera taskalpha series, but I doubt you need a stand alone machine)

I will refrain from advising a machine because, well it's been 10 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Small laser printer that doesnt curl paper?
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:44 am 
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Well, I am now returning my printer - a Brother MFC-L8650CDW laser printer. I liked the interface, I loved the speed, but I hate the page curl.

I understand this is an issue with all laser printers. As I'm a single-person office, I'll look for an ink jet to replace my old Canon Pixma ip5000 aging one.

The old printer worked great for about 10 years. When it died I thought I'd splurge on "my last printer" but it appears one should not aim too high...

:)


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 Post subject: Re: Small laser printer that doesnt curl paper?
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:22 am
Posts: 49
hozer2k wrote:
I dont know if you noticed...but with the increased speed of laser printers, they tend to curl the paper more than before. I have been trying to find an automatic DUPLEX laser that wont curl them up real bad...especially bad when duplexing.

I tried a brother printer and it was pretty bad..not professional quality. Can you believe I am still using an HP laser from 10 years ago (doesnt do duplex though). Even though its slow, its still better than anything I can find from a paper curling standpoint. So weird...technology is supposed to get better, not worse.


Here's a tip for you, go on EBAY and look for HP 4050TN.

This is a really fantastic Laser Printer and it was sold by the millions. Now companies want to get rid of them because they are clogging up storerooms and the like and you can pick them up very cheaply. A duplex unit for the printer is also dirt cheap and what's more, a toner cartridge for printing 10,000 pages only costs around $30.

It's not the fastest thing in the world, however it has a service interval of 200,000 pages (which basically means that after printing 200,000 pages you stick a vacuum cleaner in and get rid of the paper dust).

They also come with a network card (hence the "TN"). They will also come with 2*250 page trays.

They are big, but they are indestructible and you can get the latest drivers for them from HP.

A good one, with duplex unit and 10,000 page toner unit should only cost about $180 max.


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 Post subject: Re: Small laser printer that doesnt curl paper?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:25 am 
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$180 for me to expensive ;/


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