What career should i do?

[matt_garman]

The more I think about it, the more I realize how underpaid Engineers are, especially in CS. The abundance of software tools that ease software developing as well as common perception that computers are nothing out of the ordinary and any 8th grader can write software makes people unappreciative of one's work and therefore salaries.

Speaking from my experience... I'm a CS major as well, now on my second "real" job. My first was working for a large construction equipment corporation. Generally, I didn't dislike the job and the pay and benefits were pretty good.

I left because a great opportunity came up. I was ready to leave and pursue this opportunity because, in five years at the first company, despite continued growth in pay and responsibility, my authority never grew. I found it extremely frustrating to have more and more responsibility without any real power to get things done---the job became increasingly more Dilbert-like, and I could see myself going from "funny" cynical to really cynical.

Now I'm at an upstart finance company. This and your comment above are what prompted me to post this reply. If you want to get paid a lot for your CS degree, go to the finance industry! But the work is very hard, and the hours long. But I'm no longer faced with insurmountable bureaucracy, and I have real ownership in my work.

Regarding your comment, "the abundance of software tools that ease software developing as well as common perception that computers are nothing out of the ordinary and any 8th grader can write software makes people unappreciative of one's work and therefore salaries": I've always felt like I've been fairly compensated, but I do agree with your observation, that there is a perception that anyone can do software development. I think another huge contributor to this idea is the whole outsourcing movement. That was another huge reason I left the previous company: I was being shifted from a software developer to an offshore development team project manager. I didn't fear losing my job---I just didn't want that job. I don't think outsourcing is necessarily all bad, but you've got to outsource to people who have experience in what you're doing. The application for which I was previously responsible was a large C/C++ application. Our offshore team didn't have any C/C++ programming experience. And this was supposed to save money!

To the original poster: I think EE is probably a good career path, but, you have a high likelihood of ending up at a desk for the majority of your day. This is how it was for the engineers at my previous employer: very, very few of them got to "get their hands dirty" on any regular basis. And an increasing number were being transitioned into jobs like mine: managing low-cost offshore engineering projects. I'm not trying to discourage you from this course---just be careful about selecting the "right" job.

Good luck!
Matt

[aristide1]

"that there is a perception that anyone can do software development."

Yes, but everyone also believes they are a good driver, and we see how far that myth goes.

"I think another huge contributor to this idea is the whole outsourcing movement. That was another huge reason I left the previous company"

I think it's all the reason one needs to totally avoid CS altogether.

"I was being shifted from a software developer to an offshore development team project manager. I didn't fear losing my job---I just didn't want that job."

Since when was your management concerned with what you wanted?

"I don't think outsourcing is necessarily all bad, but you've got to outsource to people who have experience in what you're doing."

That's only true when YOU need to get a job. The outsourced people are so cheap no qualifications are required (or expected), and besides, you will train them before you're pushed out. What percentage of bad do you see in that whole scenario?

"The application for which I was previously responsible was a large C/C++ application. Our offshore team didn't have any C/C++ programming experience. And this was supposed to save money! "

Math by Arthur Anderson and associates, the people who helped bring you the Enron debacle.

[matt_garman]

"that there is a perception that anyone can do software development."

Yes, but everyone also believes they are a good driver, and we see how far that myth goes.

"I think another huge contributor to this idea is the whole outsourcing movement. That was another huge reason I left the previous company"

I think it's all the reason one needs to totally avoid CS altogether.

"I was being shifted from a software developer to an offshore development team project manager. I didn't fear losing my job---I just didn't want that job."

Since when was your management concerned with what you wanted?

"I don't think outsourcing is necessarily all bad, but you've got to outsource to people who have experience in what you're doing."

That's only true when YOU need to get a job. The outsourced people are so cheap no qualifications are required (or expected), and besides, you will train them before you're pushed out. What percentage of bad do you see in that whole scenario?

"The application for which I was previously responsible was a large C/C++ application. Our offshore team didn't have any C/C++ programming experience. And this was supposed to save money! "

Math by Arthur Anderson and associates, the people who helped bring you the Enron debacle.

Spoken like you've been there before!

My previous job really was Dilbert come to life.

--Matt

[matt_garman]

"I don't think outsourcing is necessarily all bad, but you've got to outsource to people who have experience in what you're doing."

That's only true when YOU need to get a job. The outsourced people are so cheap no qualifications are required (or expected), and besides, you will train them before you're pushed out. What percentage of bad do you see in that whole scenario?

In all fairness, I think some types of outsourcing are 100% non-bad. That is, of course, assuming the motivations are right and it's managed correctly. Let's say I started my own small technology consulting business. I'd probably outsource a lot of my bookkeeping and tax stuff to a firm that specialized in such things. I know such a service wouldn't come cheap, but it would save me money in terms of time spent on something that's not my core business.

On the other hand, outsourcing approaches 100% badness when the motivates/management are maligned. I.e., the "Hey, these people do software development/engineering services for less than 1/4 the cost of our own people!" The dollars saved totally eclipse determining qualifications and the fact that such an offshore team rarely has any detailed (or even general) knowledge of the actual business they serve.

Matt

[Meato]

Or you can save the years of your life sitting in classes and mounting up thousands of dollars in loans, and go visit you Electricians Local Union. They have excellent apprenticeship programs and beside the traditional Heavy/Light commercial aspects, there is also low-voltage programs. Those deal with data/voice lines. You get paid while you learn through on-the-job training and evening classes. A close friend of mine, journeyman electrician, working in Washington state grossed over $60k last year and he was out of work for a couple months.

Personally, I would never recommend traditional higher education to anyone. It is not a good investment in many cases. I don't have an accurate number, so I won't make assumptions.

--Carpenter's Local 943 Member
--Oklahoma

[Meato]

Recommended Reading;

48 days to the work you love: Read this first.
Rich dad, Poor dad: Easy reading. Read it in 2 sessions.
Total Money Makeover: Some college spending suggestions. Should help prevent you from making multi-thousand dollar mistakes.

I would recommend those to any young man. All are available at your local library. Save the money!

[aristide1]

Those deal with data/voice lines

Remember the good ol' days this was called the telephone?