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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:07 pm 
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Location: Upper left hand corner, USA
Have you considered something like electrically operated coolers?

(We have one called a koolatron) - it has no compressor,
it uses some other electrically driven process to remove heat from the food compartment (perhaps something like a Peltier cooler.) The one I have is not particularly quiet (there is a fan that comes on to cool the heatsink side of the electronic cooling element).
But that might be remedied by standard SPCR practice
(insulation, larger heatsink, larger slower fan, etc., or perhaps put the heatsink in water and use a large radiator to cool the water.)

Since you said most of the time the refrigerator is mostly empty, and
don't need freezer - perhaps you could use a few cooler sized devices, turning on only the ones you need at the time (to further reduce noise output). Or use cooler for most of the time, then turn on the noise-maker (i.e. refrigerator) on those occasions when need the extra space.

Don't know if similar devices are available that achieve usual
refrigerator temperatures, but might be worth checking. (One I see listed on Amazon claims a 40degree temperature drop vs. ambient. One might be able to improve that by augmenting the insulation.)

Just a thought


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:11 am 
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scdr wrote:
Have you considered something like electrically operated coolers?


I just checked koolatron web site. Yes, like you suggested, stacking few of them up might be an idea for some people (or for me if they were available here).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:30 am 
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Okay, problem here. This water-leaking/dripping sound from inside the fridge is unbearable. The sound is coming from the freezer section.

Setting the freezer to 1 or 5 or 9... Removing the insulation for a day and testing... is not helping. It starts when compressor stops and it doesnt stop until the compressor is turned on again.

Is this normal phenomena?

Is there a way to keep compressor on all the time :) ?

Please help, i am one step away from throwing this pos away.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:24 am 
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tibetan mod king wrote:
lm wrote:
Buy a chest freezer, install a modified thermostat, and witness 2minutes/hour duty cycles :)
Is this for real? Where would one find an appropriate thermostat? Or find instructions on how to build one? Thanks.


Yeah, it's for real. Some guy in Australia did it, here is a link: http://mtbest.net/chest_fridge.html

The same guy wrote a long article about it, where he described the project in great detail. I can't seem to find that just now, but I'm sure you'll find it with google with some of the words "modified chest fridge freezer".

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:38 am 
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maria_ wrote:
I don't really care about the electricity bill, noise is my concern. I dont mind paying double on electricity if fridge will be quiet. And as for the environmental part, it is not top of my priorities, greenpeace and dolphin lovers can spend their lives on it... I drive a 7.0 lts V8 vette and i like to pollute :)


maria_ wrote:
Sorry, this is not an option. I do not want this noise in my house and it will remain blocked until compressor burns out. We do not have return policies here and they did not accept my fridge back. So after burning 2-3 of them which are all under 1 year warranty, I am sure they will refund my money and get rid of me. 4 days and it is still not burnt out. There absolutely is no airflow to the fridge (except maybe 3-4 cm where the plug is attached), but there is a/c cooling in the house at the moment with ambient at 23C (winter no a/c).


Why would anyone like to pollute? Green and quiet are definitely not opposite goals. I totally disrespect that kind of values, even though I am no greenpeace hippie.

Abusing a fridge supplier and the nature is no good.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:20 am 
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lm wrote:
Why would anyone like to pollute? Green and quiet are definitely not opposite goals. I totally disrespect that kind of values, even though I am no greenpeace hippie.


Umm, let's start by the fact that i do not want to ride a bicycle or drive a 800 cc daewoo spark and i would like my car do 0-100 kms in 3.8 secs and i do not want to pay a 1/4 million dollars for a tesla. So yes, i abuse earth's resources. This is not in for a debate, this is a personal preference. And i don't give a rat's bottom about how you think you can judge my values.

Quote:
Abusing a fridge supplier and the nature is no good.


Well, "ubi non accusator, ibi non judex", when there is no police, there is no speed limit... similiarly, when there is no law, you make your own law. You have consumer protection there. You did not like it, you return it within 30 days and you do not need to go through the ordeal i go through. Easier to come here and judge though. We have no such thing here and i am not willing to throw my hard-earned money on the street.

If you like your nature and fridge supplier so much, send me $400 and i will gladly return the fridge back to the supplier or donate it to the place of your choice.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:39 am 
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maria_ wrote:
Okay, problem here. This water-leaking/dripping sound from inside the fridge is unbearable. The sound is coming from the freezer section.

Setting the freezer to 1 or 5 or 9... Removing the insulation for a day and testing... is not helping. It starts when compressor stops and it doesnt stop until the compressor is turned on again.

Is this normal phenomena?

Is there a way to keep compressor on all the time :) ?

Please help, i am one step away from throwing this pos away.


Would say it's coolant running in the elements' pipes. I rarely hear my fridge make the sound, but larger ones with two fridge sections and a freezer seem to make it an awful lot. Probably because the cooling need is greater, and more 'transformation' happens with the coolant(it's the liquid-gas-liquid principle, right?), so when the cycle ends there is still a lot of gas that needs to cool down into liquid again, dripping in the process(steam forms drops). The theory is a guess, but it's normal - every fridge does it.

The compressor wasn't made to be used continuously, so it would probably catch fire, wouldn't try it. (easy though, just bypass controls and feed power)

And let's not drag environmental issues into this, shall we. Hardly relevant. Money does seem to be relevant, so efficiency has its place.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:38 am 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:

Would say it's coolant running in the elements' pipes. I rarely hear my fridge make the sound, but larger ones with two fridge sections and a freezer seem to make it an awful lot. Probably because the cooling need is greater, and more 'transformation' happens with the coolant(it's the liquid-gas-liquid principle, right?), so when the cycle ends there is still a lot of gas that needs to cool down into liquid again, dripping in the process(steam forms drops). The theory is a guess, but it's normal - every fridge does it.


My previous LG fridge did not do it. But it was smaller in size. (260 lts compared to 180 lts). This fridge has 2 doors -- one for hte freezer, and one for the refrigerator compartment (standard fridge).

So how do people go about this sound? Or how to make this process last shorter?

Quote:
The compressor wasn't made to be used continuously, so it would probably catch fire, wouldn't try it. (easy though, just bypass controls and feed power)


Point well understood. I would not want tubes and gases exploding in my house anyway. I don't think fridge system is made to run continously.

Quote:
Money does seem to be relevant, so efficiency has its place.


I would like to correct a misconception here. Money is not that relevant in my scenario. I would not mind paying double for the same fridge for example, if it will give me peace of mind. The problem is, I do not have access to a variety of options... And I have no way of knowing how a fridge is before buying it. And I do not want to spend all my life burning compressors under warranty and waiting the suppliers get sick and tired of me. And once i buy it, i do not want to lose my money.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:41 am 
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If money is not important, spend several thousand dollars to import a quiet fridge from a country that does have many options. for enough money I think you can ship anything anywhere.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:36 am 
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Well, maybe it's just the big ones then. I seriously have no clue... and I've been listening to my refrigerator today(yes, I was bored :lol:) and can't say I could hear the sound either. It's a regular, 100-something litre refrigerator with a small freezer box(doesn't properly deep-freeze anything to be honest). Not quiet, but I've got a kitchen door.

I'm pretty sure it has made the sound at one point or other... could be just my imagination. I'm sure my parents have a huge, two-door one that makes the sound just about every day. Sounds a bit like freezing water actually! (you know, the sound water makes when you pour it on frozen metal and it suddenly freezes, a series of little cracking and popping sounds, bit like hissing)

Importing's just as haphazard now isn't it, no idea what the product will be like.

All I can say is "best of luck". Try and ventilate the cooling system so it needs a minimum number of cycles and try out different adjustment schemes. I'm out of ideas... except maybe for the DIY fridge compartment/insulation box. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:45 pm 
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klankymen wrote:
If money is not important, spend several thousand dollars to import a quiet fridge from a country that does have many options. for enough money I think you can ship anything anywhere.


And when something goes wrong with the fridge? Or if it is DOA?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:56 pm 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
Sounds a bit like freezing water actually! (you know, the sound water makes when you pour it on frozen metal and it suddenly freezes, a series of little cracking and popping sounds, bit like hissing)


Yes, that is pretty much what the sound is like. It is not about every day... It is almost between all the cycles.

Quote:
Try and ventilate the cooling system so it needs a minimum number of cycles and try out different adjustment schemes.


Can you please explain this some more? How does a compressor engage? Doesn't it engage when the thermostat signals that temps dropped down a certain level inside a fridge? Where does the thermostat get the reading from? Is it inside the fridge? If it is, how would the outside temperature of the compressor or radiator would effect how often a compressor should engage? Or is it both inside and outside? Or is it within the pipes themselves?

Well, since when you open the door for a minute compressor engages, I am going with the fact that thermostat is reading the temperatures within the fridge. In that case, are there dual thermostats or other circuits measuring temps at different places?

Right now, comparing the fridge with insulation against its original state, there is no difference between the times when compressor engages, stays on and shuts off.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:25 pm 
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maria_ wrote:
klankymen wrote:
If money is not important, spend several thousand dollars to import a quiet fridge from a country that does have many options. for enough money I think you can ship anything anywhere.


And when something goes wrong with the fridge? Or if it is DOA?

throw it away... it's just money! :D

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:51 pm 
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klankymen wrote:
throw it away... it's just money! :D


Those who can afford to throw money away usually have the capacity and wisdom to know how to value money in the first place.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:20 pm 
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maria_ wrote:
Quote:
Try and ventilate the cooling system so it needs a minimum number of cycles and try out different adjustment schemes.


Can you please explain this some more? How does a compressor engage? Doesn't it engage when the thermostat signals that temps dropped down a certain level inside a fridge? Where does the thermostat get the reading from? Is it inside the fridge? If it is, how would the outside temperature of the compressor or radiator would effect how often a compressor should engage? Or is it both inside and outside? Or is it within the pipes themselves?


My guess would be that it's either inside the fridge or connected to the inside one way or the other. The fridge wouldn't react to temperature changes as quickly if it wasn't, and the inside temperature is what counts. Doubt there's a secondary thermostat.

The ventilation(cool air) would just serve to make cooling more efficient, nothing else. If it isn't helping, the fridge is probably doing the best it can already - an ambient of 23'C sounds hot.

Looks like you're a victim to circumstance, and until those circumstances change, that's how it's going to be. :?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:39 am 
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maria_ wrote:
I don't really care about the electricity bill, noise is my concern. I dont mind paying double on electricity if fridge will be quiet. And as for the environmental part, it is not top of my priorities, greenpeace and dolphin lovers can spend their lives on it... I drive a 7.0 lts V8 vette and i like to pollute :)

maria_ wrote:
...i do not want to ride a bicycle or drive a 800 cc daewoo spark and i would like my car do 0-100 kms in 3.8 secs and i do not want to pay a 1/4 million dollars for a tesla. So yes, i abuse earth's resources. This is not in for a debate, this is a personal preference. And i don't give a rat's bottom about how you think you can judge my values.

If you had spent the time to understand the types of people who frequent these forums, you would know that such comments will not help your cause. I am probably not the only one here who finds your attitude and manner to be offensive. Considering you don't give a "rat's bottom" about anything but yourself, why should anyone care about you and your petty problems?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:27 am 
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alleycat wrote:
Considering you don't give a "rat's bottom" about anything but yourself, why should anyone care about you and your petty problems?


Because that's what trolls do ? :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:35 am 
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Quote:
Water has a MUCH higher heat capacity than air. So putting a bunch of water bottles in the fridge and freezer (leave the tops open in the freezer so the bottles don't break when it turns to ice) will help keep them cold with less energy (and less frequent compressor cycles). I don't know if anyone has measured this so I don't know how big a difference it would make... but I would bet that it is significant (maybe we could submit this idea to Mythbusters so they could test it). I do this in both my fridge and freezer compartments for energy savings. Can come in handy when there is a water pipe leaking and they shut off your water for a day or two... happened to me last year.


Quote:
Where can we get some scientific/factual data on this? Of all the things on earth, someone surely must have tried it.


I think in this case it's not so much about the thermal properties of the mass, but the fact that opening a standard upright fridge dumps all your cooled air on the floor. The cooling apparatus has to refill the unit with cooled air every time this happens, so filling the space with non-air mass reduces the amount of cooled air that must be replaced each time. It's a really simple problem, and one that is solved nicely by the chest freezer conversion.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:03 pm 
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alleycat wrote:
Considering you don't give a "rat's bottom" about anything but yourself, why should anyone care about you and your petty problems?


Like I mentioned, I am not here to be judged for my personal preferences or beliefs or the circumstances causing any of those. This is nobody's business. I came here with a very specific problem.

Those who wanted to help have done so and they have been appreciated and been thanked graciously many times over and over. Even those who did not have anything to offer have been thanked beforehand for bothering to read. Helping or not wanting to help is definitely your choice, but no one gives you or anyone the right to judge me in the process.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:06 pm 
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shadestalker wrote:
Quote:
Water has a MUCH higher heat capacity than air. So putting a bunch of water bottles in the fridge and freezer (leave the tops open in the freezer so the bottles don't break when it turns to ice) will help keep them cold with less energy (and less frequent compressor cycles). I don't know if anyone has measured this so I don't know how big a difference it would make... but I would bet that it is significant (maybe we could submit this idea to Mythbusters so they could test it). I do this in both my fridge and freezer compartments for energy savings. Can come in handy when there is a water pipe leaking and they shut off your water for a day or two... happened to me last year.


Quote:
Where can we get some scientific/factual data on this? Of all the things on earth, someone surely must have tried it.


I think in this case it's not so much about the thermal properties of the mass, but the fact that opening a standard upright fridge dumps all your cooled air on the floor. The cooling apparatus has to refill the unit with cooled air every time this happens, so filling the space with non-air mass reduces the amount of cooled air that must be replaced each time. It's a really simple problem, and one that is solved nicely by the chest freezer conversion.


In my question, it was assumed that the fridge door would be closed and remain closed. So refilling the unit with cooled air does not apply.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:14 pm 
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alleycat wrote:
If you had spent the time to understand the types of people who frequent these forums, you would know that such comments will not help your cause. I am probably not the only one here who finds your attitude and manner to be offensive. Considering you don't give a "rat's bottom" about anything but yourself, why should anyone care about you and your petty problems?
I can't exactly point out what got you so excited. I'm not sure if you got pissed off because of her "wrong" values or if you found the last paragraph you quoted to be aggressive and offensive. In either case, I think your rebuke is uncalled for.

She's new here. Do you really expect her to first skim through the old threads to get to know what are the politically correct opinions around here, before she's allowed to speak her mind? Environmental threads in the off topic section have always had support from both consumers and environmentalist. So I wouldn't label all of us with the "We don't take kindly to your types in here!" -environmental badge. Most people here are still glad to offer their help despite differences in opinions, that's why SPCR is so great.

If it's the rat's bottom part, have you considered that she mentioned she lives in middle east, and uses centimeters and celsius instead of inches and fahrenheit. That make's it pretty certain english isn't her native language (my guess is she's from Israel). I think people who speak english as their native language should give us non-native speakers a break, because we might sometimes come out more blunt or aggressive then we intend to, just because we don't master the fine subtleties of english. I think you should have given her the benefit of the doubt. I for one found her answer to be defensive in nature, nothing to get worked up about.

maria_ wrote:
but no one gives you or anyone the right to judge me in the process.
Sorry, but if you voice your opinion, prepare to be judged. It's a not a right that needs to be granted. That said I'd still prefer, if people kept their "judgements" to themselves. It keeps everyone happier (especially mods).

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:42 pm 
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maria_ wrote:
as for the environmental part, it is not top of my priorities, greenpeace and dolphin lovers can spend their lives on it... I drive a 7.0 lts V8 vette and i like to pollute :)


this thread and this attitude reminded me of a sculpture i saw some years ago:

Image

Fridges, the must-have consumer object, indirectly propagate the necessity of their own existence: the gas required to cool a fridge depletes the ozone layer, which in turn causes global warming.

may your fridges be forever noisy, maria_


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:54 am 
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Erssa wrote:
Sorry, but if you voice your opinion, prepare to be judged. It's a not a right that needs to be granted. That said I'd still prefer, if people kept their "judgements" to themselves. It keeps everyone happier (especially mods).


Sorry no, the topic title reads: SILENT FRIDGE. Like I said, i came here with a very specific problem. My life story or the reasons for whatever it is i do has no bearing in anything here. I do definitely have reasons and justifications for what i do, but I do not have to explain or discuss them here -- they have no relevance to my question and problem and they offer no help to me except wasting your time and my time in the process. Moreover, I stated the reasons for some of my actions that might seem peculiar in order not to offend anyone and engage in further futile conversations. Therefore, it is absurd to judge or criticize me -- they will not change anything, i was not born yesterday, and i will not bother to explain the reasons since they are not pertinent to the topic which is about silencing the fridge.

It is not that difficult to respect that and state your opinion about my problem instead of delving into character defamations. Had the topic title been ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY FRIDGE, all bets would be off and i would heartily agree with you. Don't you agree?

Now, let me go and eat my dolphin sandwich!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:46 pm 
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Maria,

Are you seriously wondering why people would judge you when you proudly post pictures of your efforts to abuse a product, and then still fraudulently use the warrantee that you have just voided, and make statements ridiculing the beliefs of others, then trying in the same message to play innocent, and wonder why anyone would judge your messages?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:32 pm 
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VanWaGuy wrote:
Maria,

Are you seriously wondering why people would judge you when you proudly post pictures of your efforts to abuse a product, and then still fraudulently use the warrantee that you have just voided, and make statements ridiculing the beliefs of others, then trying in the same message to play innocent, and wonder why anyone would judge your messages?


You have 30-days unconditional return warranty called consumer protection that we don't have -- therefore your opinion cannot be objective since you will never be in the same shoes. Easier to talk though.

I paid a premium for a japanese fridge over korean ones and the sales person said japanese compressors are quiet and i expected it to be that way. I asked it to be returned as soon as the installation people plugged it in... but of course not.

What about the ordeal i am going through to make this quiet? Finding insulation material is not easy here as i had to spend quiet a lot of time in god-forsaken shops trying to hunt for it and paid almost $250 for a 2 m2. Is anyone paying for this? Or for my time frequenting forums trying to find a solution?

I had my LG quiet and troublefree for 5-6 years. Screw the fridge manufacturer now and their warranty or what i do to circumvent it. It is none of your freaking business. Are you here to blow my fuses off? My last post on this issue. Enough is enough.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:00 pm 
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maria_ wrote:
You have 30-days unconditional return warranty called consumer protection that we don't have -- therefore your opinion cannot be objective since you will never be in the same shoes. Easier to talk though.
You presume alot. And you are objective?

Quote:
What about the ordeal i am going through to make this quiet? Finding insulation material is not easy here as i had to spend quiet a lot of time in god-forsaken shops trying to hunt for it and paid almost $250 for a 2 m2. Is anyone paying for this? Or for my time frequenting forums trying to find a solution?
Two wrongs don't make a right.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:57 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:11 am
Posts: 292
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Nice work troll.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 299
Location: Vancouver Wa USA
Thanks TheycallmeBruce, or did you mean the other troll? :)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:33 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:11 am
Posts: 292
Location: Perth, Western Australia
I meant the OP.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:07 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:06 am
Posts: 38
maria_ wrote:
Okay, problem here. This water-leaking/dripping sound from inside the fridge is unbearable. The sound is coming from the freezer section.


I wanted to update this for those looking for a solution in a similiar case.

I have covered my fridge with sound-insulation foam as follows:

Entire top
50% of both left and right sides (upper half of each sides)

NOW I HEAR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

No part of the fridge seem to be getting hotter so far and it hasn't exploded yet since a month.

Many thanks to (In no particular order):

Bluefront, Das_Saunamies, MikeC, flyingsherpa, Erssa, scdr, shadestalker

for your suggestions and everyone else for taking the time to read. A bit more thanks to Das_Saunamies though -- your input has really been valuable.

As in any sort of online medium, those who want to help, do help. Those who want to bitch, just bitch and do not intend to help in the first place anyway.

Cya all folks.

Maria


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