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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:38 pm 
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frenchie wrote:
The Smart Fortwo has a 0.8 L cdi engine that gets around 70mpg (54 HP) and that's with the transmission inefficiencies.

The Smart ForTwo Diesel is pretty poor if you consider that while it may be fairly efficient, other, much larger cars can match this fuel efficiency whilst being more practical and substantially faster. 3.3l/100km is very good but not when you compare it to the BMW 320d Efficient Dynamics which might 'only' do 4.1l/100km but gets to 100km/h in 8 seconds as opposed to 16.8. It's over twice the car and suddenly the Smart ForTwo doesn't make so much sense. There are many other cars that come closer to the Smart ForTwo in absolute economy but manage it at a larger scale. All they've done in the Smart ForTwo is use a tiny engine which they can just about get away with hauling the thing along.

Good luck with the electric system!

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Last edited by edh on Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:39 am 
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How about this one? A 1965 electric Humber Vogue. Which comes with a super detailed blog about how it was retro fitted. And it goes - youtube tells us so!

Image

Yep, that's an electric car. Check out the dash!

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:14 am 
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edh wrote:
The Smart ForTwo Diesel is pretty poor if you consider that while it may be fairly efficient, other, much larger cars can match this fuel efficiency whilst being more practical and substantially faster. 3.3l/100km is very good but not when you compare it to the BMW 320d Efficient Dynamics which might 'only' do 4.1l/100km but
gets to 100km/h in 8 seconds as opposed to 16.8.

Agreed, but the point was to use the small engine to power an alternator to partially recharge the battery, not to use the engine to move the car...
And the BWM does not get 4.1L/100km when you're doing the 8 sec acceleration ;)

Neil, any time you come close to Springfield MA, let me know, I'd love to see your project !

OT : I've been playing with how I drive my car I'm now getting around 2mpg better mileage now than I was getting before (almost 35mpg, 2010 elantra gls, 60% highway, 30% windy country roads, 10% town)

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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:02 pm 
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frenchie wrote:
Agreed, but the point was to use the small engine to power an alternator to partially recharge the battery, not to use the engine to move the car...

You wouldn't want to use that engine for the purpose wihtout extensive modification. What you are talking about is a 'range extender hybrid' pretty much like the diesel electric drive used in some trains but with added batteries and regenerative braking perhaps also. The trouble is that the requirements for the generator engine are very different from an engine to drive the wheels directly, you don't need the engine to be responsive in the same way. It is possible to retune a diesel engine (and diesel is much better for the purpose) to suit but don't expect this to be something that any tuner will be able to do as that's totally unlike their normal customer bases requirements (more aggressive response, flimsy anecdotal evidence of better performance and fuel economy, more noise, warranties invalidated!). For this reason range extender hybrids tend to use different engines to their direct transmission counterparts. You'd be better off taking the engine from a small trailer mounted generator of the type you often see used on building sites.

frenchie wrote:
And the BWM does not get 4.1L/100km when you're doing the 8 sec acceleration ;)

No, but it'll get better fuel efficiency doing 0-100kmh in 16.8 seconds than the Smart would. This touches on a test that Top Gear did a few years ago: A Prius vs an M3 on a lap with the M3 just keeping up with the Prius. No surprise from an engineering background which is more efficient in doing this, the car that isn't running at 100% all of the time!

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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:42 pm 
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edh wrote:
You'd be better off taking the engine from a small trailer mounted generator of the type you often see used on building sites.

I hadn't thought of that... I wonder how those things would do with a proper muffler... The image I have in my head of those engines (from when I worked on construction site in the summer when I was still in school), is the noise and the smoke when ramping up.
How about using a small household backup generator (can be diesel fuel or LP) ? It would have to be the most efficient for the power the car pulls when charging (the nissan leaf pulls 3.3Kw when charging using the on board charger). A quick search returns a 5kW generator, diesel fuel, consuming .076 gallons of diesel fuel per KWH at full load... interesting topic to poke at one of those days...

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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:39 pm 
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frenchie wrote:
I hadn't thought of that... I wonder how those things would do with a proper muffler... The image I have in my head of those engines (from when I worked on construction site in the summer when I was still in school), is the noise and the smoke when ramping up.

Have a look at the Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust but I'm sure anyone with engineering sense could do better. I have seen the actual car itself in a museum and it's safe to say that it's ambitious but rubbish:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-c ... ss-release

There are some videos somewhere no doubt.

frenchie wrote:
How about using a small household backup generator (can be diesel fuel or LP) ? It would have to be the most efficient for the power the car pulls when charging (the nissan leaf pulls 3.3Kw when charging using the on board charger). A quick search returns a 5kW generator, diesel fuel, consuming .076 gallons of diesel fuel per KWH at full load... interesting topic to poke at one of those days...

An industrial one would probably be higher efficiency and you do need a higher power as you need it to charge over the 3 phase connection as opposed to normal mains just to get the power in quickly enough so that you can effectively use it whilst driving along.

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 Post subject: Edison2 Very Light Car: v4.0 Chassis Revealed @ Ford Museum
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:44 am 
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Pictures!

Here's one:
Image

Oliver mentioned in the presentation that the rear seat is just a placeholder; it is not the seat they will end up with. And, obviously the wheels are too wide. The rear suspension will take some puzzling out...

Please notice the name on the dash instruments. Is the battery underslung below the front wheel beam?

More articles and pictures!

Image

Edison2 Unveils New Super-MPG Car At The Henry Ford « CBS Detroit

Image

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 Post subject: CarBEN EV5 - First Public Showing!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:32 am 
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A excellent day all around!

Image
(click on image for photo album)

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/2013/04/carben-ev5-construction.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckUMwbfROyU

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 Post subject: CarBEN EV5 - First Public Showing!
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:12 pm 
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Some more pictures from the Earth Day Festival, taken by a friend:
ImageImageImageImageImage
Image

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 Post subject: Organic Transit Elf - pedal/electric/solar Velomobile
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:19 am 
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It is great to see this sort of vehicle coming onto the market. It is a reverse trike model called the Elf and it is built by Organic Transit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqWeYsrfNK8
ImageImageImage

They also have a larger fully enclosed utility trike model called the TruckIt.
Image

They are pretty serious on the production methods!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQogddZNIHY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtW_MWFMZ7w

Organic Transit is now shipping the Elf to their Kickstarter investors, which is great! They ended up raising over $223,000 which is way over their target. Here are some new concept computer models of future Elf's, including a tandem 2 seat design:

ImageImage

Here is an article that shows (what I think is) the production Elf:

ELF: Hybrid Solar / Pedal Vehicle by Organic Transit | Ubergizmo

ELF-Organic-Transit-01photo fromELF: Hybrid Solar / Pedal Vehicle by Organic Transit - Ubergizmo

So, about 30 miles of range, and it can be pedaled on the flats. It can charge itself in 7-8 hours sitting in the sunshine, and it doesn't require insurance or a license - and it only costs about $4,000. And you will get in shape and lose weight, too.

Awesome!

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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:22 am 
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This is excellent! A solar powered car that seats at least four people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=905HHucCkKI

The Solar Team Eindhoven (STE) of Eindhoven University of Technology (TU/e) presented the world's first solar-powered family car. "Stella" is the first "energy-positive car" with room for four people, a trunk, intuitive steering and a range of 600 kilometers (373 miles). This is the car being entered by the student team in the Cruiser class of the World Solar Challenge that starts in Australia in October 2013.

"Stella" was created by a team of 22 students from the University of Eindhoven, The Netherlands. Stella is the first solar car with four seats with a range of 600 km (373 miles) per charge ! It combines an aerodynamic design with lightweight materials, such as carbon fiber and aluminum.

Stella will get the official certification for road use, becoming street legal and will be for sale in Europe.

http://www.designboom.com/technology/worlds-first-electricity-producing-solar-powered-family-car/

Students in the Netherlands unveil a solar-powered family car; Tech News and Analysis

Stella is the World's First Solar-Powered Family Car! | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building

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It's a solar racer car that seats four. The battery pack is the "spine" between the seats, and the range of ~370 miles - without the sun shining, I presume?

So, it is not fully equivalent to a typical car and yes the doors and the roof are obviously deflecting. I would love to see a slightly taller version - it could take a nod in the direction of the Schlörwagen, or Sven7's Linner Strømlinet Vogn.

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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:56 am 
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For anyone in eastern Massachusetts, Elio Motors is bringing their prototype to the South Shore Mall in Braintree, MA, through tomorrow, during Mall hours (10am-9pm).

Image

They are claiming 84MPG (highway) and they say they will sell it for $6,800. And build it in the US. It seats two people, by the way - in tandem.

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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:12 pm 
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Okay, this is my "report".

The engine, transmission - the full drivetrain are being designed and built by IAV:

Engine Q&A with IAV – 2-21-14 | Elio Motors

They will have the first drivetrain soon (within a few months?) and it will likely be installed in a P5 (prototype #5) unit. This orange car is a P4. The P5 will have ~1.5" more headroom in the back seat.

I sat in the backseat - it is lacking a bit of headroom (I'm 6'-4") and the seat cushion was very firm, and not angled enough to support my legs. I did fit, though. The front has more than enough legroom - I would *not* push the seat all the way back, or else I could not reach the pedals.

They have nearly 20,000 deposits now. Deposits can be $100, $250, $500, or $1,000 - and they can be refundable or non-refundable - your choice. If you choose non-refundable, they match 50% of it against your purchase price.

They will be doing a direct sales model - a lot like Tesla, with retail stores in malls, etc. Service will be handled through Pep Boys: Elio Motors: Ultra High Mileage Vehicle (click on Service and Maintenance)

The base model will be a 5-speed manual with a normally aspirated engine, stereo, A/C, 3 air bags, etc. and they are ~80% done with pricing the parts. They will likely make the target $6,800 price, or it may rise $100-150. Automatic transmission will cost more. There will be a turbo option.

One person mentioned the Cd was 0.24, and if they didn't count the under slung exhaust (or maybe they did include it?), then that is plausible. The main part of the chassis is very good, and only the suspension struts and driveshaft and the wheel fairings are less great. I'll guess the outboard front wheels are at least half the overall drag? They also mentioned the possibility of side video mirrors.

Oh, the right side window opens even though there is no door.

It looked lower and better in person. The wedge on the front above the grill looks less pronounced than I thought it would, and that is a good thing, in my book. The exhaust will exit much farther back. The rear suspension is very beefy looking - single sided swing arm is on the right side (see pictures).

There were at least 8 people there who had put down deposits. There was a lot of buzz and people were almost always positive. The only negative comments I heard was about the small storage space; if there is a second person in the rear seat.

ImageImage

Metro engine:
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Rear suspension:
ImageImage

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Inside:
ImageImage

The underslung exhaust:
Image

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They are looking to possibly deliver cars in about a year and a half. Another interesting tidbit is that at least one person working for Elio there have bought stock in the company. This is good to hear, as it may mean they will work all the harder to build and sell cars.

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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:22 pm 
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Such a nice sleek car - probably a bit cramped for my taste, personally (2-seater back/front). I saw something funny the other day, absolutely radical, and wanted to share;
Solar Freaking Roadways
Not my meaning to downgrade this post in any way with preposterous utoob links. I really thought the idea enterprising, but also very utopian because I doubt you that easy get enough electricity out of it, and maintenance issues would make it not usable many places without proper foundation. But maybe ecofriendly on a certain scale.

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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:19 pm 
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The front seat is big, but having the sides of the car near on both sides takes getting used to.

This solar roadways are bunk. The requirements for a road are totally at odds with the requirements for solar panels - I don't know what they are thinking?

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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:40 pm 
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Tesla open-sources all patents, bold move by Elon Musk (and so un-american):
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1843 ... wered-cars


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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:09 pm 
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Nice post Neil, thanks ! I wonder what kind of real-life fuel economy we'll see... It looks low to the ground, was that your impression ? (I'm thinking ease of access)

Same cd as the Model S. The 2014 MB CLA250 will do even better as far as cd is concerned. Not for fuel economy though :p

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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:35 pm 
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Yes, the Elio is a bit too low - they are going to put 16" wheels on (in place of the 15" on the P4 I saw. Real world MPG of course will vary, but they will have optimized the engine and the gearing, and aero is pretty good (with the exposed front suspension bits being the majority, really) and the exposed exhaust. If we get a new law allowing video mirrors (that Tesla is aiming for!) then the Cd and frontal areas of all cars can be improved.

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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:30 pm 
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I had a productive day (so far) - I have cut the windshield opening! Here's the progression:

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

The big moment has arrived!

Image

Image

Image

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

An interesting sidebar: Nissan is selling a new and improved Leaf battery pack for $5,500. I could buy two packs and fit them into CarBEN EV5; which would be awesome!

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 Post subject: Re: Super Efficient Cars [very large pictures]
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:21 pm 
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making some fantastic progress there Neil! Great looking project. Keep up the great work!

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