It is currently Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:50 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 227 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:02 am 
Offline
SPCR News Editor

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:20 am
Posts: 2177
Location: TN, USA
Before this disaster I never realize how deep they drill or how piecemeal it all seems.

There are some hard numbers in http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6489 but the pic below catches your attention

Image

_________________
.
Please put a country in your profile if you haven't already.
This site is international but I'll assume you are in the US if you don't tell me otherwise.
RAID levels thread http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=388987


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 2:40 am 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:11 pm
Posts: 7373
Location: Maynard, MA, Eaarth
Let's hope the "top kill" procedure works today!

This situation is getting pretty desperate...

_________________
Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: booming school and the top kill
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 12:16 pm 
Offline
SPCR News Editor

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:20 am
Posts: 2177
Location: TN, USA
Warning profanity abounds but this guy is an oil guy who is serious and funny at the same time and is revealing some of the goof ups along the way of this BP thing. I'll list in order from oldest to newest as you need to read the booming schools before the rest

Quote:
Regarding my language, I really don't normally write or speak that roughly, unless I'm out in the patch actually working. I'm going to clean it up on DKos. That stuff was useful in my first booming diary as a means of helping us all express our outrage. Now, we're all just about shot-through with outrage, so I'll clean it up. I might forget every now and then, especially when talking about BP's management and our Coast Guard's Commandant. Please cut me some slack on that.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/5/11 ... ing-School

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/5/14 ... -School-II

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/5/16 ... re-Booming

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/5/21 ... e-Top-Kill

anyway reading this I don't have a lot of faith in the cleanup effort or the ability to stop the flow of new oil.

_________________
.
Please put a country in your profile if you haven't already.
This site is international but I'll assume you are in the US if you don't tell me otherwise.
RAID levels thread http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=388987


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:36 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:11 pm
Posts: 7373
Location: Maynard, MA, Eaarth
We will apparently have to wait a day or two for them to know whether the "top kill" has worked...

_________________
Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 11:24 pm 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 455
Location: England
Sadly from our perspective here in Blighty, BP seems to be getting all the blame for this. Granted they were the operating company but the drilling rig was owned and crewed by Transocean - American owned, while the company responsible for cementing was Halliburton, also American owned. It is a possibility that a botched cement job led to the leak.

Obama seems to be trying to pin all the blame on BP and people have also been questioning BP's safety management - based on personal experience working on offshore drilling rigs operated by BP and American oil companies in the North Sea, I would much rather be on the BP rig than one operated by a bunch of Texan cowboys with their gung ho approach.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 2:42 am 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:11 pm
Posts: 7373
Location: Maynard, MA, Eaarth
Not only that, it was during those secret meetings with Dick Cheney that the rules were set to allow these wells to happen only with the "blowout preventer" and no real oversight.

As you should already know, Dick Cheney was the CEO of Halliburton, before he became VP of the USA. Hmmm.

About 2 years ago, right after Halliburton cemented a well in Australia -- it blew up.

_________________
Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 7:40 am 
Offline
SPCR News Editor

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:20 am
Posts: 2177
Location: TN, USA
May 30, 2010 - 9:30am
Quote:
The most ambitious bid yet to stop the worst oil spill in U.S. history ended in failure Saturday after BP was unable to overwhelm the gusher of crude with heavy fluids and junk. President Obama called the setback "as enraging as it is heartbreaking."

The oil giant immediately began readying its next attempted fix, using robot submarines to cut the pipe that's gushing the oil and cap it with funnel-like device, but the only guaranteed solution remains more than two months away.

The company determined the "top kill" had failed after it spent three days pumping heavy drilling mud into the crippled well 5,000 feet underwater.

_________________
.
Please put a country in your profile if you haven't already.
This site is international but I'll assume you are in the US if you don't tell me otherwise.
RAID levels thread http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=388987


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 7:52 am 
Offline
SPCR News Editor

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:20 am
Posts: 2177
Location: TN, USA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHmhxpQEGPo

31 years and no real improvement. It's 8 mins of video, well worth watching.

_________________
.
Please put a country in your profile if you haven't already.
This site is international but I'll assume you are in the US if you don't tell me otherwise.
RAID levels thread http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=388987


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 11:27 am 
Offline
SPCR News Editor

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:20 am
Posts: 2177
Location: TN, USA
A picture scaled to the actual depth of the well.

Image

_________________
.
Please put a country in your profile if you haven't already.
This site is international but I'll assume you are in the US if you don't tell me otherwise.
RAID levels thread http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=388987


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 6:25 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:11 pm
Posts: 7373
Location: Maynard, MA, Eaarth
And that is only the water depth -- the depth below the ocean floor is another ~18,000 feet; over three times deeper than the water.

_________________
Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 3:13 am 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 455
Location: England
dhanson865 wrote:

31 years and no real improvement. It's 8 mins of video, well worth watching.


The well that blew out 31 years ago was drilled in only 150' of water. No problems in getting divers to that depth and yet they still couldn't kill it. I think some of you are failing to appreciate the magnitude of the forces involved. The pressure of a blowing well can be up to 10,000psi.

An interesting site can be found here.

With the best will in the world, accidents still happen - equipment can fail, people can make mistakes, corners are sometimes cut and blowouts will still occur. Like I said earlier in this thread, the demand for oil is such that wells are being drilled in places that would have been inconceivable in 1979 when the 600' water depth and weather conditions found in the North Sea pushed the limits of the technology then available.
I worked out there on a drilling crew for 6 years in the early 80's - I know what it's like.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: U.S. Opens Criminal Investigation Of Gulf Oil Spill
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:05 am 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:11 pm
Posts: 7373
Location: Maynard, MA, Eaarth
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127348773

_________________
Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 am
Posts: 2831
Location: USA
1. British Petroleum is responsible for the blowout since they are the operator. They hired the subcontractor(s) to perform some of the work, but are supposed to provide oversight. They can sue their sub-contractors if they wish, but British Petroleum is still responsible. A significant part of all work in the oil business is sub-contracting out and the oil companies provide over-sight.

2. There is no $75 million dollar limit on actual damages. There is a difference between punitive damages vs actual costs to clean up the spill. British Petroleum is completely liable for the clean up costs.

3. Blaming this on Desk Cheney is demagoguery.

4. It appears (although not proven conclusively yet) that the blowout preventer failed to work because of improper maintenance, and British Petroluem is responsbile for this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:12 am 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 455
Location: England
m0002a wrote:
4. It appears (although not proven conclusively yet) that the blowout preventer failed to work because of improper maintenance, and British Petroluem is responsbile for this.


This articlesuggests the cause is more complex and probably a combination of casing/cement job failure together with BOP failure. As it says, it is premature to speculate and nothing will be known for sure until the well is plugged via the relief wells and the damaged BOP can be brought to the surface for examination.

Incidentally:
Quote:
The US considered requiring the remote-controlled shut-off mechanism several years ago, but drilling companies questioned their cost and effectiveness, according to the Interior Department's Minerals Management Service, which oversees offshore drilling.

The agency says it decided the remote device wasn't needed because rigs had other back-up plans to cut off a well. The UK, where BP is headquartered, doesn't require the use of acoustic triggers.

Mike Papantonio, an environmental lawyer, said on the popular American radio programme, the Ed Schultz show, that former Vice-President Dick Cheney’s shadowy energy programme decided that the switches, which cost $500,000, were too much a burden on the industry.


Most countries with offshore drilling operations do require the use of these acoustic switches.
Perhaps the US and the UK will join that group of countries now?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 am
Posts: 2831
Location: USA
judge56988 wrote:
This articlesuggests the cause is more complex and probably a combination of casing/cement job failure together with BOP failure. As it says, it is premature to speculate and nothing will be known for sure until the well is plugged via the relief wells and the damaged BOP can be brought to the surface for examination.

A blowout preventer (BOP) failure by itself does not cause a problem unless there is a blowout (obviously). So when I say the problem is failure of the BOP (caused by failure to maintain the BOP properly), that does not mean it was the initial cause, but one cannot legally drill a well without a functioning BOP in place. There is evidence that the BOP was not properly maintained by British Petroleum, and that will be the subject of the criminal investigation.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:34 am 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:11 pm
Posts: 7373
Location: Maynard, MA, Eaarth
If Dick Cheney presided at the secret meetings where the rules were decided on -- then he is mostly to blame for the lack of real enforceable rules that could have prevented this disaster.

Those are the facts.

It is also sadly ironic that it was Halliburton that was the subcontractor doing the cementing -- 20 hours before the explosion. Same thing happened in Australia ~2 years ago -- Halliburton did the cementing, and very shortly thereafter, the rig exploded.

Hmmm.

_________________
Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 am
Posts: 2831
Location: USA
NeilBlanchard wrote:
If Dick Cheney presided at the secret meetings where the rules were decided on -- then he is mostly to blame for the lack of real enforceable rules that could have prevented this disaster.

Those are the facts.

It is also sadly ironic that it was Halliburton that was the subcontractor doing the cementing -- 20 hours before the explosion. Same thing happened in Australia ~2 years ago -- Halliburton did the cementing, and very shortly thereafter, the rig exploded.

Hmmm.

You have no evidence whatsoever to support your allegations against Cheney, or about any secret meetings that Cheney attended where blowout preventers were discussed. Please stop posting these false statements.

The idea that someone who served as CEO for a company from 1996-2000 (and did not work in any capacity for them prior to or after that time) is responsible for an accident that happened in 2010 is childish (not to mention the fact that Halliburton has not been found at fault).

If the regulations regarding blowout preventers were so bad, why has not Obama done anything in his first 15 months as President?

British Petroleum is responsible for the maintenance and proper functioning of the blowout preventer, not anyone else (regardless of who they may have sub-contracted to work out to).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:04 am 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 455
Location: England
m0002a wrote:
There is evidence that the BOP was not properly maintained by British Petroleum,


Where? Do you have a link?
I thought that it was supposition at this point in time.

If you don't have evidence you shouldn't be making allegations against BP.

BOP's can fail for reasons other than lack of maintenance.

Does anyone seriously think that BP would take any risks on a well like this?
Very high pressure gas at great depth, in 5000' of water - they would be very aware of the financial and political consequences of a blowout.

For detailed information on this incident from oil field professionals look here.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:03 pm
Posts: 606
Location: Albany, GA USA
judge56988, For a first hand account of events that led to the disaster from an engineer who barely survived, check out the interview with Mike Williams conducted by CBS's 60 Minutes. BP was at fault.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/16/60minutes/main6490197.shtml

The death of the gulf economy will lead to the demise of BP. That weasel of a CEO who "just wants his life back" continues to infuriate everyone.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 am
Posts: 2831
Location: USA
judge56988 wrote:
Does anyone seriously think that BP would take any risks on a well like this?

I don't think British Petroleum senior management would take those risks, but it is hard work to get the message down to the workers, and at the same time reward them for productivity. Nevertheless, those executives get paid a lot of money, and it is their responsibility to do just that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 am
Posts: 2831
Location: USA
judge56988 wrote:
Where? Do you have a link?
I thought that it was supposition at this point in time.

If you don't have evidence you shouldn't be making allegations against BP.

Link provided in post above by Michael Sandstrom. I have seen similar stories from other sources about problems with the BOP that British Petroleum employees knew about in advance. I am sure we will hear more about this as time goes on.

One thing is clear about the CBS story (which I already knew having worked for several oil companies) is that regardless of who the sub-contractors are, the operator is responsible and in charge of what goes on.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:45 pm 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:09 am
Posts: 1907
Location: Northern California.
Quote:
" I want my life back."


BP CEO + guillotine = the start of justice

_________________
“America, it's a continent, not a country!”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:44 pm 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 7:16 am
Posts: 1302
Location: en.gb.uk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... the_u.html

Quote:
As I've written here before, it's certainly not ludicrous to assume that the final cost for BP of this mess could wipe out at least an entire year's profit (which for the past three years was just over £13bn on average) - once compensation and possible fines have been paid.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:59 pm 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 455
Location: England
nutball wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/06/will_bp_be_forced_out_of_the_u.html


This comment on the above article pretty much sums up my feelings -
Quote:
This is without doubt a disaster unfolding in the gulf, regarding the oil spill, the media seems to of forgotten that 11 lives were lost here, I have listened and read all about it as it has been developing, Ive also listened to Mr Obama attempting to get as much weight behind the coming lawsuits against BP as he possibly can. Obama is riding a crest of anti-BP feeling, Watch the flow of events. BP loses its leases and American companies sweep in and take them over. If they can bankrupt BP so much the better as they do like to get rid of competition. So watch how BP's US operation fares over the next few months. The lease was being operated on behalf of BP Americas as it was previously known. The Transocean Rig although Swiss owned was predominately crewed with American drilling personnel and American service companies such as Halliburton that were in charge of critical operations.it looks like BP were very badly let down by the Transocean, and all the personnel involved would have been American, and the drilling done to standards laid down in American law.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: BP Sought To Ease Canadian Rule For Relief Wells
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:27 am 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:11 pm
Posts: 7373
Location: Maynard, MA, Eaarth
m0002a wrote:
NeilBlanchard wrote:
If Dick Cheney presided at the secret meetings where the rules were decided on -- then he is mostly to blame for the lack of real enforceable rules that could have prevented this disaster.

Those are the facts.

It is also sadly ironic that it was Halliburton that was the subcontractor doing the cementing -- 20 hours before the explosion. Same thing happened in Australia ~2 years ago -- Halliburton did the cementing, and very shortly thereafter, the rig exploded.

Hmmm.

You have no evidence whatsoever to support your allegations against Cheney, or about any secret meetings that Cheney attended where blowout preventers were discussed. Please stop posting these false statements.


Prove me wrong. Here's what they did in Canada:

+++++++++++++++++++

BP Sought To Ease Canadian Rule For Relief Wells : NPR

Quote:
Energy giant BP told Canadian regulators in March that relief wells are an "after-the-fact tactic" in controlling oil well blowouts, less than a month before the catastrophic oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico that the company hopes to stop by drilling two relief wells.

A relief well is the oil industry's gold standard for killing a blowout. In the Gulf, BP's drillers are guiding the two wells to intersect the 7-inch well pipe of the uncontrolled well; the pipe could then be plugged with cement.


Quote:
But the first rig wasn't able to set its drill bit into the mud until 13 days after the April 20 blowout on the Deepwater Horizon; the second rig, 28 days after the accident. French said it would take an additional 90 to 120 days to reach the damaged well pipe.


Quote:
Instead, BP emphasized preventive technology and practices, many of which have now been called into question due to the catastrophe in the Gulf.

Most notably, the company said it has a "rigid policy requirement," calling for two barriers to hold down the surging oil and gas in a well: heavy drilling mud in the pipe and a blowout preventer at the wellhead.

The drilling mud was intentionally removed on the Deepwater Horizon rig before a cement plug was installed. The blowout preventer then failed.

_________________
Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:08 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:09 am
Posts: 1907
Location: Northern California.
BP Disaster is Cheney's Katrina -time line-

[quote]Regulations permit oil and gas industry to regulate itself. {MMS}—decided in 2005 that oil companies, rather than the government, were in the best position to determining their operations’ environmental impacts. This meant that there was no longer any need for an environmental impact analysis for deepwater drilling, though an earlier draft stated that such drilling experience was limited. In fact, MMS “repeatedly ignored warnings from government scientists about environmental risks in its push to approve energy exploration activities quickly, according to numerous documents and interviews.â€

_________________
“America, it's a continent, not a country!”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Posts: 528
Location: 128.0.0.1
Well, this is a clusterf*ck indeed.

Will BP be penalized? Sure, but not adequately. The government won't touch them to harshly. BP would likely seek to extend any "excessive" punishment to those American companies involved in this mess, most prominently Haliburton. And no-one wants that. The American companies will pressure the government into making this all go away quickly, because if BP sues, that means prolongued bad PR and possibly billions in damages.
That is also the reason the other 5 Big Oil Behemoths will want this all to go away quickly, in the end this is a nightmare for the oil industry in general.

So BP will pay some damages that won't come close to making up for the catastrophe. They will be doing this primarily to publicly atone for their sins, because what BP right now fears the most is PR backlash and punishment from the American customer.

This whole situation is comparable to nuclear power plants. There's always the risk of a catastophic failure, it might be small, but it's there and no operator of such a plant is prepared to deal with the aftermath of that, not financially, not logistically. If such an event would occur, the government would have to step in.

And that is the nature of modern capitalism: internalize profits, externalize risk.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BP Sought To Ease Canadian Rule For Relief Wells
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 am
Posts: 2831
Location: USA
NeilBlanchard wrote:
Prove me wrong. Here's what they did in Canada:

+++++++++++++++++++

BP Sought To Ease Canadian Rule For Relief Wells : NPR

I didn't see anything about Cheney in that article. I don't know what kind of Banana Republic you are from, but in civilized societies those who make the accusations have the burden of proof.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 am
Posts: 2831
Location: USA
judge56988 wrote:
nutball wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/06/will_bp_be_forced_out_of_the_u.html


This comment on the above article pretty much sums up my feelings -
Quote:
This is without doubt a disaster unfolding in the gulf, regarding the oil spill, the media seems to of forgotten that 11 lives were lost here, I have listened and read all about it as it has been developing, Ive also listened to Mr Obama attempting to get as much weight behind the coming lawsuits against BP as he possibly can. Obama is riding a crest of anti-BP feeling, Watch the flow of events. BP loses its leases and American companies sweep in and take them over. If they can bankrupt BP so much the better as they do like to get rid of competition. So watch how BP's US operation fares over the next few months. The lease was being operated on behalf of BP Americas as it was previously known. The Transocean Rig although Swiss owned was predominately crewed with American drilling personnel and American service companies such as Halliburton that were in charge of critical operations.it looks like BP were very badly let down by the Transocean, and all the personnel involved would have been American, and the drilling done to standards laid down in American law.

It is not in the standards laid down by American law that a damaged BOP can be ignored, as was apparently the case as reported by CBS in the link above (based on interview with a survivor from the platform that exploded).

Sounds like you are more concerned about the nationality of who will get blamed (because British Petroleum is based in your home country, the UK) than you are about the disaster itself. That seems really petty to me. British Petroleum is a multi-national company and they have employees from all over the world working for them. Hopefully, any legal or political issues as a result of this tragedy will not be pursued based on the nationality of the participants. That would be a double crime (at least in the US it would be).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:46 pm 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:09 am
Posts: 1907
Location: Northern California.
In the past three years, BP has racked up 760 safety violations. the rest of the oil companies shared a total of less than two dozen violations between themselves in that same time. The BP board and the companies largest share holders should pay dearly for the next few generations at least.



Image

_________________
“America, it's a continent, not a country!”


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 227 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group