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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:30 am 
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andyb wrote:
I have wondered for a while about a rather similar "Buddhist" symbol, the "legs" of the cross go the other direction.

Is that also banned because it is similar.?

In principle, it is not. Article 86 of the German Criminal Code prohibits the distribution (public showing is included in that) of signs of so-called unconstitutional parties and organizations. A swastika itself doesn't qualify.

Still, people who display swastikas for political (anti-nazi, e.g. a broken swastika) or religious reasons are occasionally dragged to court by some overzealous district or state attorney of the lower ranks. There's usually a little outcry in the media about it. Even more rarely, a local judge will actually convict the defendand to a couple of bucks or some social service. Then there's a little bigger outcry in the media. If the defendand feels the urge to appeal this, no higher court has ever upheld such a ruling.

The general public reaction to swastikas is probably the same in Germany as it is in the UK.
Like when Prince Harry came in Nazi-Costume. Would have probably gauged the same reaction here, but he would have definitely gotten into some legal trouble as well, because a swastika on a white circle on a red ground is definitely a Nazi symbol.


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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:45 am 
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tim851 wrote:
m0002a wrote:
First, I don't believe that evolution and Christianity are mutually exclusive.

Then you wouldn't be a Christian in a lot of people's eyes.

Anyone is entitled to their own opinion, but most Christian Theologians (including all recent Popes) don't think they are in conflict:

In an October 22, 1996, address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Pope John Paul II updated the Church's position to accept evolution of the human body:

"In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points....Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than a hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies – which was neither planned nor sought – constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."

tim851 wrote:
m0002a wrote:
Secondly, my point is not what religious membership Obama has, or what church he attends, but what he really believes.

How is the media to report that? When Fox News say something along the lines of "Is Obama secretly a Muslim?" and the White House Press Secretary releases a statement "President Obama is a devout Christian." - what is the neutral media to cover? Are they to stage a crossfire interview where his personal religious views are questioned during a polygraph test and then a panel of two dozen representatives from as many Christian denominations takes a vote on whether or not he is?
Or should they just say: he's a Christian. Why? Because he says he is.
Sorry, I don't accept that Obama's word on what "he says his religious beliefs are" for reasons I have already explained in depth. If you want to believe him, that is up to you. I don't think I am picking on Obama in particular, since the same is true for most all other politicians who need to project a certain public image.

As for the media, I would prefer that they just report the facts as to his church memberships and attendances (including when he lived in Indonesia as a child) and don't try and tell me what his religious beliefs are.

tim851 wrote:
m0002a wrote:
Not in Illinois. It is not where the car is made, but who owns the company, and whether it is a union shop.

Could you give me a reference for that? I've googled it, but found nothing. I'm really interested in wacky laws and this would be a nice addition to my collection.
You know perfectly well that it is not a law, just a political truism. If you disagree, please discuss this with Obama's advisors who directed him to purchase the cars he did.

tim851 wrote:
m0002a wrote:
I didn't say it was a fact, but I said I would be willing to bet. Would you be willing to bet against me?

If you would define "almost all Harvard lawyers" and propose a method of data gathering, I would probably bet against you.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is way to settle that bet (that almost all 52 year old Harvard Law School grads have owned at least one car made by a foreign owned company in the last ten years). But I looked up the current market share of GM, Ford, and Chrysler in the US market, and it is about 45% market share (not 2/3 as you claimed).


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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:07 pm 
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m0002a wrote:
You know perfectly well that it is not a law, just a political truism. If you disagree, please discuss this with Obama's advisors who directed him to purchase the cars he did.

I actually didn't know that. You made it sound like it was a legal requirement. ("driving an American car is required to be elected in Illinois")

How do you know that his political advisors told him anything?
Some Harvard lawyers might by a BMW because it is a status symbol. Why would Obama buying a Chrysler as a political symbol (or token) be any more or less valid? How do you choose a car?


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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:17 pm 
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tim851 wrote:
I actually didn't know that. You made it sound like it was a legal requirement. ("driving an American car is required to be elected in Illinois")

How do you know that his political advisors told him anything?
Some Harvard lawyers might by a BMW because it is a status symbol. Why would Obama buying a Chrysler as a political symbol (or token) be any more or less valid? How do you choose a car?
I don't believe for one second that you actually thought I meant it was legal requirement. You are straining credulity.

I will qualify that to say that "Democrats" in Illinois are well advised to purchase a car from an automaker with union labor. But even most Republicans do that also.

I didn't criticize Obama for buying a Chrysler (he has since switched to a Ford Hybrid since right before he announced for president). I just said his choice of cars (and perhaps his choice of religious affiliation), is based on the realities of running for public office in the US.


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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:40 pm 
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ces wrote:
And a Black President, that is symbolic. That is the reason for much of the irrational hate.... and the UFO type of conspiracy arguments.
I respectfully disagree. Very few people care what Obama's ethnic background is (50% African and 50% European). I don't see hatred against Obama based on his race, just as I don't see it against black athletes or black entertainers because of their ethnic background. Sounds to me like you a little bit paranoid schizoid on this subject (as well as the Jesus stuff). But Obama is a very liberal politician (or at least he claimed to be during the campaign) and a lot of conservatives hate liberals (nothing to do with race).

If you think a lot of people hate Obama, you must not have been around when Clinton was president.


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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:48 pm 
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ces wrote:
You are bleeding your beliefs all over. I got your number.

I tell you, you are smart... the problem is you overestimate how smart you are and how dumb others are. That is why you haven't attained in life all you think your are deserving... you little narcissist you.

No matter who you are, there is someone smarter. Honest.

Many of the people you play for marks... aren't marks. When you try to play them... they all take a step back and let you sit in your own muck. And you think it is just the luck of the draw. Much of what you think you have hidden from them, they see.
I have only two comments:

1. "Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell

2. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein

BTW, I mentioned union labor, because technically Chrysler was owned by Daimler-Benz (German company), and now the LLC is partly owned Fiat.


Last edited by m0002a on Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:10 pm 
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ces wrote:
Many of the people you play for marks... aren't marks. When you try to play them... they all take a step back and let you sit in your own muck. And you think it is just the luck of the draw. No, its you. Much of what you think you have hidden from them, they see.

Don't give me no crap about this. Just go ask your wife if maybe there might be a grain of truth to what I am saying. You can't say she doesn't know you.

Marks? Is there some con game here that I am supposed to be playing to swindle money out of people here? If so, please explain it to me in detail so I can get something useful out of this wasteland of a thread.

I would ask my wife, but I have no idea what you are talking about, so wouldn't know what to ask her.


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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:30 pm 
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m0002a wrote:
I don't believe for one second that you actually thought I meant it was legal requirement. You are straining credulity.

Yes. This topic is a testimony to your ability to see into other people's heads.


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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:03 pm 
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tim851 wrote:
Yes. This topic is a testimony to your ability to see into other people's heads.

OK, it appears you in Germany? If so, then I will apologize. Let me explain it this way. Could someone get elected to high office in Germany if they drove a Lexus LS460? You know, that Japanese company that stole all that the German technology (that what my German friends say).


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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Quote:
I think my contributions to this thread are probably done.


Unless you get back on-topic and stay there you might just be right.

m0002a that goes for you as well.

May I remind you to read the title of this thread and keep on topic, or at least close to topic. Also put your handbags down and stop making yourselves look silly infront of numerous readers of this thread, otherwise I shall have this thread closed and you will have to find another thread to take the piss out of each other whilst making yourselves look like adolescents.


Andy

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:10 pm 
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tim851 wrote:
Yes. This topic is a testimony to your ability to see into other people's heads.


Where's that +1 button :?:

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:00 am 
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http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-news-section/69-69/5732-fox-news-goes-full-birther

I wonder what will happen now to people like Carl Rove and Mike Huckabee who have been quite reasonable on this "birther" issue, calling the proponents out for a dead end argument. I wonder if the polls that show 47% of Republicans believe that President Obama is not a US citizen will undermine their political effectiveness?

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:31 am 
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NeilBlanchard wrote:
http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-news-section/69-69/5732-fox-news-goes-full-birther

I wonder what will happen now to people like Carl Rove and Mike Huckabee who have been quite reasonable on this "birther" issue, calling the proponents out for a dead end argument. I wonder if the polls that show 47% of Republicans believe that President Obama is not a US citizen will undermine their political effectiveness?
Which Fox News employees are you claiming don't think Obama was born in the USA?


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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:34 am 
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White is black. Black is white. Fox is news. No its not. Round and Round we go.

Did you ever hear about the one that the Holocaust never occurred? People who believe that are called Holocaust deniers. It is amazing the arguments they can put together.

I have an even better one. A few years ago there was a federal race discrimination law suit in the Federal 7th Circuit. The defense attorneys were playing hard ball. They thought they were so smart. They put the plaintiffs though real abusive depositions. One line of questioning was to ask the black plaintiff's how they knew they were black.

Har Har Har.

The Judge thought it was so funny, he fined the lawyers.

Har Har Har.

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:26 am 
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ces wrote:
White is black. Black is white.
I am not so sure about that one. Says who? People are often categorized as one race or another for some political reason, when in fact they may be multi-racial, or not even greater than 50% of the race that is attributed to them.


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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:30 am 
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m0002a wrote:
NeilBlanchard wrote:
http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-news-section/69-69/5732-fox-news-goes-full-birther

I wonder what will happen now to people like Carl Rove and Mike Huckabee who have been quite reasonable on this "birther" issue, calling the proponents out for a dead end argument. I wonder if the polls that show 47% of Republicans believe that President Obama is not a US citizen will undermine their political effectiveness?
Which Fox News employees are you claiming don't think Obama was born in the USA?


Check the link for the quotes, to see who is making things up in the face of all the evidence.

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:43 am 
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NeilBlanchard wrote:
Check the link for the quotes, to see who is making things up in the face of all the evidence.
I did read the entire link, and the only one I saw who cast any doubt on his place of birth is Donald Trump, who is running for President (at least for now) and just publicity seeking, and not an employee of Fox.

Here is what the link says about Hannity:

"Hannity stated: "Do I think he was [born in America]? Yes. Do I think this is odd that they won't produce the birth certificate? It's beginning to get odd to me."

Now it appears to me that most of the people who commented at the bottom of that web page (as well as those who wrote the webpage) aren't intelligent enough to understand that if Donald Trump is not a Fox employee, but is possibly running for President and has an opinion on the subject, then Fox is just reporting that, and not necessarily endorsing that view.

Again, which Fox news employee is saying that they think Obama was not born in the US?

As far as "making things up in the face of all the evidence," there is scant evidence, since for some devious reason Obama refuses to provide the original birth certificate, which as some have noted is rather strange "if" he really wants to stop all this discussion (apparently he does not). Some claim he has no obligation to provide a birth certificate, but then why did his campaign (ceremoniously during the primaries) provide the Certificate of Live Birth? But there are sufficient numbers of people who have seen the original that I also believe he was born in Hawaii (but this is a belief, sort of like a religious belief based on witness of a prior event, since no first hand evidence will be available to me).

If this had not been Obama, but a Republican, you would be all over it like a wet-blanket.


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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:18 pm 
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I'm trying to understand : Does it really matter right now ? Aren't there more important issues ?

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:36 pm 
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The notion of even acknowledging Hannity said anything is to appeal to the LCD. Of course this from the crowd that screams about the money Soros spent on political motivations while ignoring the vast non-stop multi-media propaganda by his polar opposite. (This would be yet another instance of applying that 2 wrongs theory again.)

I don't understand this thread, most people are arguing with someone who is intentionally limiting his acceptance of facts to his advantage. He also justifies his "thought" process with the ever ridiculous 2 wrongs make a right nonsense.

This is also the theory of relativity. Let's stipulate most news leans left. If a person leans right then even when a station is totally objective, ergo upright, it would seem to be leaning left, based on relative position. A station that leans slightly to the right would seem correct (or as they call it fair and balanced). And best of all, a station (or in Murdoch's case multiple media outlets) leaning extremely to the right would appear only slightly to the right.

In the end each side is playing their followers for fools. This country will continue to go down the drain as long as people stay on the 2 party merry-go-round. Whether it's Bill Maher or Hannity getting rich the same way PT Barnum did is of no consequence. Obama has proven to be yet another pro-corporate pres-toy coming out of the same mold the last 2 presidents(probably many more) did, taking it doggie style from lobbyists and begging for more. Every time he assigns a new head of something he puts another fox in charge of another hen house, the piece of paper that's truly missing is the one that states he switched parties. But anyway reverse Robin-hoodism is in full gear and we can't stop it. "We the People" is now "We the Corporations.." and it will remain so as long as people waste their time on threads like this one.

Score:
Left-zero.
Right-zero.
Winners-zero.
Losers, everyone, including those that are capable of thought.

Oh, this may seem like I lack gratitude for this predicament, well I don't.
Here it is - thanks for nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:06 pm 
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frenchie wrote:
I'm trying to understand : Does it really matter right now ? Aren't there more important issues ?
Yes there are more important things. I don't understand why so many people are getting so upset about this when everyone who works for FOX News agrees that Obama was born in Hawaii. The only one who is apparently is still worried about this (besides those posting here) is Donald Trump (who does not work for Fox), and he is just a entertainer (pretending to run for President). Besides, I am not sure sure Trump actually believes that Obama was not born in the USA, but he apparently thinks there is something on the birth certificate that that is "interesting" and he wants to see if he can find it.


Last edited by m0002a on Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:17 pm 
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aristide1 wrote:
The notion of even acknowledging Hannity said anything is to appeal to the LCD. Of course this from the crowd that screams about the money Soros spent on political motivations while ignoring the vast non-stop multi-media propaganda by his polar opposite. (This would be yet another instance of applying that 2 wrongs theory again.)
I don't see two wrongs here.

Hannity agrees that Obama was born in Hawaii, but said it seems odd that his campaign released the Certificate of Live Birth (not dating back to the time of his birth, but printed by a computer fairly recently by the State of Hawaii), but refuses to release his Birth Certificate (or copy thereof). So I don't see how Obama can use as a defense that he is not required to prove his USA birth, since his has already tried to do so in a very public manner with the release (an fanfare at the time) of his Certificate of Live Birth. It just seems a bit odd to only release the Certificate of Live Birth and not the Birth Certificate (which does exist), not necessarily denying that Obama was born in the USA.

I do realize that this distinction is way over the head of some people.


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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:01 pm 
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Quote:
Hannity agrees that Obama was born in Hawaii


Hannity is not relevent. No president proves his birth place to the people, he proves it to those who authorize/allow him to run for office.

Quote:
I do realize that this distinction is way over the head of some people.


Know what? I hope he's not a citizen, then the Bush adminstration can be the most incompetent bunch ever, and on the record no less. What kind of idiot with the power, money, and total support of the US government allows a foreigner to become president? And even those that believe they aren't saying that are certainly suggesting the possibility still exists.

Asking for 1 president's BC and not asking for any others is nothing more than a sheer sign of personal arrogance. Couple it with ignorance and you certainly have one winning combination.

By the way, where's yours?
I believe you snuck across the border like all the others.

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:40 pm 
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Oh my !!! Things are getting a little tense here :twisted:
The point about Fox is that they're a bunch of entertainers pretending to give a "Fair and balanced" opinion to their viewers. What they don't realize is that some people believe them ! It doesn't matter if it's Hannity, O'Reilly or another other clown (just like Comedy Central BTW), what matters is that they feed people a certain version of the "truth" only. Just like all the other media, you have to know what you're watching. Fox News is not news, it's entertainment, like SciFi, the Disney Channel or Nickelodeon. Except when Sponge Bob pretends to be Captain Kirk, people don't think he actually is. Just like people who watch Fox News should realize it's not what it says on the box. But if you say that out loud, Fox News will tear you appart and call you a terrorist (based on made up information, fake news, dumb anchors, and a little bit of God Powder that makes anybody who's spread with it an idiot, oh, and I almost forgot, a few tickers on top of each other at the bottom of the screen, red, white and blue of course).

Nice piece Aris BTW, you're on a roll !!

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:47 pm 
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aristide1 wrote:
By the way, where's yours? I believe you snuck across the border like all the others.
Why encourage the Johny Reb birther troll who denies being a birther... like Hanity and Trump deny it.

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:23 pm 
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aristide1 wrote:
Hannity is not relevent. No president proves his birth place to the people, he proves it to those who authorize/allow him to run for office.
Well, yes, Hannity is relevant, because a lot people are claiming that he doubts Obama's citizenship, so quoting him in saying the exact opposite is exactly relevant to the discussion about Fox News. But I agree that candidates should provide that info to each state where they want to be on the ballet, and not to anyone else.

aristide1 wrote:
Know what? I hope he's not a citizen, then the Bush adminstration can be the most incompetent bunch ever, and on the record no less. What kind of idiot with the power, money, and total support of the US government allows a foreigner to become president? And even those that believe they aren't saying that are certainly suggesting the possibility still exists.
We don't know anything for certain. Maybe the world is not real, and maybe we are just dreaming.

Bush didn't run for reelection, so it was not his concern who was or was not qualified to run for President. But now that we realize that Obama is a closet war-mongering Republican in disguise, maybe some on the left will demand to see his BC.

aristide1 wrote:
Asking for 1 president's BC and not asking for any others is nothing more than a sheer sign of personal arrogance. Couple it with ignorance and you certainly have one winning combination.
The media actually did ask for McCain's BC, and he provided it. But I agree that it should be a uniform requirement for all federal candidates for House, Senate, and President, to certify their age and citizenship (if running for President). Where I live, it is a legal requirement that everyone prove their age to be served alcohol, regardless of their age, and it is enforced without exception.

The interesting thing you have not addressed is that Obama freely and willingly (early in the campaign) released his Certificate of Live Birth to attempt to dispel the myths that he was not born in the USA. So if Obama didn't think he needed to prove his citizenship, then why did he release the Certificate of Live Birth? This is when the hoopla really started, because the Certificate of Live Birth was printed on laser printer, just a relatively short time before he ran for President. Some are wondering why he didn't just release his BC instead of Certificate of Live Birth, and wonder if there is something embarrassing in the BC (even if he is a citizen).

aristide1 wrote:
By the way, where's yours? I believe you snuck across the border like all the others.
I am not running for President. There is no requirement that members of this forum be US citizens (especially since the publisher is Canadian).


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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:37 pm 
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ces wrote:
Why encourage the Johny Reb birther troll who denies being a birther... like Hanity and Trump deny it.
Wrong. Hannity says he believes Obama was born in the USA. Trump (not an employee of Fox) is at least pretending he is not sure (or something like that).

I am not a troll, nor did I start this ridiculous line of posts about birthers and Fox News. No one has been able to prove that any Fox News employee says that Obama is not a citizen. Many are just fabricating such claims about Fox News employees. At most, some of Fox News employees think it is a little strange that Obama voluntarily produced his Certificate of Live Birth (recently printed by the state of Hawaii), but refuses to publish his BC (even though we know it exists and proves he was born in the USA).

It may be true that some people who have "appeared" on Fox News (as opposed to employees of Fox News)question Obama's citizenship, but I don't recall anyone saying that CBS News is a terrorist organization just because they aired interviews of Osama bin Laden and his cohorts. Of course, liberals are the aboslute worst when it comes to defending freedom of the press and freedom of speech.


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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:54 pm 
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Well, yes, Hannity is relevant,

Well I can't fix stupid, so definitely not for me.

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:59 pm 
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m0002a wrote:
Of course, liberals are the aboslute worst when it comes to defending freedom of the press and freedom of speech.

Sure, why not. If it makes some people feel better...
And to end my participation to this thread, I'll half quote Spiderman : Freedom "comes with great responsibilities". (explanation : freedom does NOT mean you do/say what you want)

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:12 pm 
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m0002a wrote:
Of course, liberals are the aboslute worst when it comes to defending freedom of the press and freedom of speech.

Of course, without grotesque generalities what would there be left to say? But it is expected from the group much more likely to hide behind religion and drape itself in the flag.

You ever wonder what happened to the decendents of the original witch burners? They're still around.

Hey wait a minute, all the godless liberals are sex maniacs, and porn exists through the 1st Amendment, so what you're saying doesn't seem fair and balanced.

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 Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:29 pm 
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Quote:
Freedom "comes with great responsibilities".

The latter seems to be an incomprehensible concept and nothing else. For them freedom and free-for-all are totally interchangeable. That and maintaining a double standard are the only 2 constants in the universe.

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