SPCR

Rather than have forum members bash each other, let's bash ideas.

One idea that needs to be bashed is the idea that 'wizardry' is needed to fix the economy.

'Wizardry' will not fix the economy. Wizardry is precisely what screws up the economy. What fixes the economy is focus on basic, broad principles. You might define them as fairness, control of erratic trade behavior that works against distribution of goods and services, control of shortsighted, non-sustainable practices, etc. In other words, what fixes the economy is the same as what fixes everything in the whole broad picture.

Warren Buffett probably doesn't have much adeptitude at fixing the economy, even though he's a nice, grandfatherly sort of guy. And Mitt Romney, who profits from the system's weaknesses and doesn't even have the decency to admit it, probably not even to himself, is not the person for the job.

Reachable wrote:Warren Buffett probably doesn't have much adeptitude at fixing the economy, even though he's a nice, grandfatherly sort of guy. And Mitt Romney, who profits from the system's weaknesses and doesn't even have the decency to admit it, probably not even to himself, is not the person for the job.

Curious, how does Mitt Romney profit from weaknesses in the system?

m0002a wrote:

Reachable wrote:Warren Buffett probably doesn't have much adeptitude at fixing the economy, even though he's a nice, grandfatherly sort of guy. And Mitt Romney, who profits from the system's weaknesses and doesn't even have the decency to admit it, probably not even to himself, is not the person for the job.

Curious, how does Mitt Romney profit from weaknesses in the system?

The weaknesses in the system are collectively what create the proverbial 1 and 99. Mitt Romney was in a privileged position to game them.

Reachable wrote:The weaknesses in the system are collectively what create the proverbial 1 and 99. Mitt Romney was in a privileged position to game them.

In reading Romney's biography on Wikipedia, I don't believe that is fair. His father was Governor of Michigan, but not particularly wealthy. According to Wikipedia, Mitt Romney had a steady set of chores and worked summer jobs, including being a security guard at a Chrysler plant. Mitt Romney started out after college as an entry level consultant in 1975 at the Boston Group and worked his way up.

From Wikipedia:

"In 1977, he was hired away by Bain & Company, a management consulting firm in Boston that had been formed a few years earlier by Bill Bain and other former BCG employees. Bain would later say of the thirty-year-old Romney, "He had the appearance of confidence of a guy who was maybe ten years older." With Bain & Company, Romney learned the "Bain way", which consisted of immersing the firm in each client's business, and not simply to issue recommendations, but to stay with the company until they were changed for the better. With a record of helping clients such as the Monsanto Company, Outboard Marine Corporation, Burlington Industries, and Corning Incorporated, Romney became a vice president of the firm in 1978 and within a few years one of its best consultants and one sought after by clients over more senior partners. Romney became a believer in Bain's methods; he later said, "The idea that consultancies should not measure themselves by the thickness of their reports, or even the elegance of their writing, but rather by whether or not the report was effectively implemented was an inflection point in the history of consulting."

"Then in 1984, Romney left Bain & Company to co-found the spin-off private equity investment firm, Bain Capital. Since the inception of Bain Capital, it has invested in or acquired hundreds of companies including such notable companies as AMC Entertainment, Aspen Education Group, Brookstone, Burger King, Burlington Coat Factory, Clear Channel Communications, Domino's Pizza, DoubleClick, Dunkin' Donuts, D&M Holdings, Guitar Center, Hospital Corporation of America (HCA), Sealy, The Sports Authority, Staples, Toys "R" Us, Warner Music Group and The Weather Channel."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitt_Romney

Bain Capital is where Romney made his money, and had nothing to do with what he was born into. Private Equity (Venture Capital) firms have been behind 99% of every start up company in the last 40 years including Microsoft, Intel, Apple, Google, Facebook, etc, etc. For every company that survives, 10 go under. Bain specifically focused on buying existing companies in trouble, turning them around (this is where his management consulting background came in handy) and then taking them public or selling them. That is what made Bain different from many Venture Capital firms, in that Bain bought troubled companies and took an active role in fixing them, rather than just making passive investments.

A lot of people complain that Romney has only paid 15% income taxes in recent years. All his investments are in a blind trust and probably all of his income is from dividends and long term capital gains which are both taxed at 15%. I have not heard any Democrats suggest that the tax rate for these be raised (most divends and captial gains are paid to pension funds and personal retirement accounts), but some people are put off by the fact that Romney's total wealth (not yearly income) is about $200 million dollars. He is no longer employed by Bain, and does not draw a salary from anywhere that I was able to discern, so that is why his only income is from investments.

Personally, I think Romney is one of the most competent persons on the planet, but I don't necessarily know if that will guarantee success as US president, since the problems of the US are mostly political. What I mean is that even if Romney knew what to do to fix the economy, the president does not have the power to make the changes necessary without the backing of the Congress and the American people. But I guess that at least knowing what should be done, is better than not even knowing, even if it would hard to get everyone to agree.

You know what they say, if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the ____________?

Precipitate.

A society will not continue to function when 1 in 1,000 people gets $1 out of every $8. The remaining 999 people get to split $7. This is what is happening right now, here in the USA.

That's 7/10ths of a penny per person.

NeilBlanchard wrote:A society will not continue to function when 1 in 1,000 people gets $1 out of every $8. The remaining 999 people get to split $7. This is what is happening right now, here in the USA.

That's 7/10ths of a penny per person.

Is that based on net worth, income, or what? Do you have some source for those stats?

m0002a wrote:Curious, how does Mitt Romney profit from weaknesses in the system?

Mostly from having having 50% of the population being able to ask such a stupid question.

Do you have some source for those stats?

You looking for something as biased as the propaganda outfit called the Tax Foundation?

What fixes the economy is focus on basic, broad principles. You might define them as fairness...

A million middle class people's view of fairness takes a back seat to 1 billionaire's view of fairness. How can that be? The billionaire has lobbyists, the comman man has squat.

Squat - What you get from a trickle down leaky diaper economy. Lots and lots of squat.

Buffet came clean? He is a devout Democrat, and the religion dies hard.

Pot meet kettle. Kettle this is pot.

Jacob Hacker and Paul Pierson, authors of Winner-Take-All Politics: How Washington Made the Rich Richer — And Turned Its Back on the Middle Class.

aristide1 wrote:You looking for something as biased as the propaganda outfit called the Tax Foundation?

No, I don't really care about who says what, I want to understand the details of what they are saying (the statistics they have and how they reached the conclusions based on those statistics).

NeilBlanchard wrote:Jacob Hacker and Paul Pierson, authors of Winner-Take-All Politics: How Washington Made the Rich Richer — And Turned Its Back on the Middle Class.

Well, you didn't exactly tell me what the statistics you quoted refer to (income, net worth, etc). If you look at the Forbes Billionaire list, you will find such people as Buffet, Gates, founders of Google, Walton family (Walmart), etc. I have not read that book you cited, but I don't understand what they propose so that these people could not have made so much money. If he is only talking about taxing them, then keep in mind that even if their tax rate quadrupled it would not affect their wealth much, especially since they give away the vast majority of their wealth to charities, and charitable contributions are tax deductible (are Hacker and Pierson proposing that charitable deductions not be tax deductible?).

andyb wrote:

Contrary to what you think, I don't give a flip whether UK has a monarchy. It's none of my business. Likewise, you should mind your own business and stay out of US politics.

That is easily the most arrogant and small minded thing that I have seen on the SPCR forums, I will hold my tongue as you are obviously not worthwhile enough to bother communicating with.

Andy

PS: this one is for you m0002a

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/moron

I second that. Freedom of speech is not limited to the US.

ces wrote:

m0002a wrote:Maybe you should change your byline quoting Bertrand Russell and Albert Einstein.

m0002a my old friend, what I think is that you should apologize to Aristide. But if you don't know why, then forget it.

I thought my byline was made up.

And from the comment I see I won't be calling m0002a Einstein. And from not.

Bertrand Russel wrote:Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.

Classic.

Did you know SPCR has an ignore function? I didn't.

Sooooo much better now.

I recommend it highly.



*****Neil, do mods get stats of whos on ignore, and when? and was I the first to use it? lol...*****

Sigh....

Knock off the crap girls, or I'll lock this one just like I locked your other slap-fest.

time to start knocking off the personal attacks.

was preceeded by

OK girls,

Oh, the irony.

aristide1 wrote:

time to start knocking off the personal attacks.

was preceeded by

OK girls,

Oh, the irony.

OK! You win!