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Is there a God?
Yes 33%  33%  [ 29 ]
No 49%  49%  [ 43 ]
Don't Know 17%  17%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 87
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 7:57 pm 
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GG, according to most current theories the universe is of finite size, but has no edge.

The universe is multi-dimensional so its a bit hard to visualize, but a 2D analogy would be the surface of the Earth. It has a limited, finite size, but no matter how far you go you'll never reach the edge.

And mas92264 does bring up, indirectly, an important idea. Since our entire scientific history points to a universe that operates on a complex, but orderly, set of "rules", what role does God play now?

Dieties were once credited for everyday events that we now explain with science. If everything in the universe is governed by a set of laws, all you really need is someone to set the rules, and then start the ball rolling.

An aside: I recently read an interesting article on the G.U.T. and "The death of God" Very interesting stuff

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 8:03 pm 
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so are you saying that if you keep going one direction eventually what? you circle back around?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 8:49 pm 
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GamingGod wrote:
so are you saying that if you keep going one direction eventually what? you circle back around?


If you set off in one direction you'll never get to the edge, but you won't ever get back to where you started either.

Confusing, I know.

One thing that you have to remember is that outside the universe it isn't just empty space, an absence of "stuff". Outside the universe there's really nothing; no matter, no energy, and hence, no time.

You can't think of the expanding universe as an explosion in space that you could view from a distance. There is no distance outside of it, no place to watch it from. The only place you can see it from is inside it, and no matter how far you go you can never get to the edge and look back.

Think about it this way:

The edge of the universe could be defined as the farthest point at which light from the BigBang has gotten to. Since that light is travelling at light-speed, and the fastest that you could possibly go in your search for the edge is light-speed, you will never be able to catch it. And it already has a 20 billion year head start. (And the closer you got to lightspeed the slower your time would run anyway, so it would take you infinitely long anyway)

It would be like you in your Malibu trying to catch me in my Corvette, in a race that I started before you were born. :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:03 pm 
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it's just what you read, heh, i don't buy into it much but i figured id post what the theory said.

I believe in three dimensions. Time, number four, can't be altered I think. (not that science is a religion, but I just never agreed with the fourth dimension thing.)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:33 am 
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sbabb wrote:
...So Zen Agnosticism is what I've come up with, complete with a catchy and somewhat confusing tag line. Anyone is welcome to join me, and you don't even need to send money.


Or, you could both send money and not send money. :)

8)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:09 am 
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Note that the God thread is viewed 50% more than the abortion thread. While at the same time, the God yes/no vote is running about 50/50. There are way more viewers than voters (which always happens.)

There's a contradiction here, somewhere.

Also, it seems that the posters are substantially less polarized than the guns/international politics/Bush posters.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:41 am 
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MikeC wrote:
That Ralf, what a guy, eh?! :roll:

But his behavior is apropos for this topic. To many of us, it looks like if there is one, he started the whole mess then just walked away. :lol:


Hmm, maybe that's because I'm God!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:43 am 
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Rusty075 wrote:
And mas92264 does bring up, indirectly, an important idea. Since our entire scientific history points to a universe that operates on a complex, but orderly, set of "rules", what role does God play now?


Why I create polls on the SPCR forums of course! See my reply above this post. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:07 am 
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al bundy wrote:
sbabb wrote:
...So Zen Agnosticism is what I've come up with, complete with a catchy and somewhat confusing tag line. Anyone is welcome to join me, and you don't even need to send money.


Or, you could both send money and not send money. :)

8)


Either way, you're definitely invited to the meetings or not, as you see fit. We're not having them almost continuously. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 9:26 am 
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Rusty075 wrote:

It would be like you in your Malibu trying to catch me in my Corvette, in a race that I started before you were born. :lol:


I think you just wanted to brag that you have a corvette. But my malibu can move. I got it up to 120 the other day and it wasnt even stressing the engine. I decided to slow down when I saw the highway patrolman, luckily he didnt see me. I get your point though, I understand all the concepts. I was just curious what you thought. Its just hard to imagine that emptyness goes on forever, and only a small part of space has matter, and only a small part of matter has life. Its kinda sad, luckily I have a gf now and dont give a damn about anything else :D

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:29 pm 
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GenghiS_KhaN wrote:
no, why should one that has all the powers you could even think of make this kind of shitty world :)


Wow, I guess mankind had no impact on the sorry condition of the world. It's all God's fault and he must be an amoral God at that. It's the age old debate about good and evil and morality, or lack thereof.

So...

* If evil exists, then we have to assume that good exists - or we wouldn't know the difference
* If good exists, we have to assume that a moral law exists - or we would have no way to measure good and evil
* If moral law exists, we have to say that there is a moral lawgiver - or we would have no basis for an objective moral law.

What Christianity has to offer on this subject isn't a quick sugar-coated answer but one that:

* accepts the reality of evil and suffering
* offers God-given strength to survive it
* offers God's plan to put an end to all suffering

As a former atheist I say yes there is a God, and he is the God of the Bible. It's a belief grounded in faith. He loved me enough, despite my hatred of him, to lift me out of a wasted life of addiction, depression, selfishness and anger. Absolutely lonely and empty to the core despite being surrounded by so many people. Therefore, I am eternally grateful. And I will always remember these simple truths:

* those who hurt Jesus, hated him
* those who hated him, Jesus loved.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:15 am 
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"If there were gods, how could I bear to be no god? Therefore, there are no gods."

Sorry god-fearing
people, others......The "big brother in the sky" theory is laughable when you look around yourself with eyes wide open, and not fogged over by some pitiful, bogus Jesus crap.

Grow up brothers and sisters....we are all in this alone, as there is no one watching out for you above. You watch out for yourself, or you die.

Too bad truth hurts, but if you cannot face up to it, may as well continue wearing your rose-colored glasses, and carrying your Bible, and looking up to the sky. Oh and keep that little fish symbol on your trunk. But my little fish has feet...heh.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:17 am 
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Well, I thought we'd be able to get through this thread without anyone's beliefs being attacked. So much for that idea.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:08 am 
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LOL i like bluefronts post, thats about what i believe. Ive seen no evidence of god, and i definately dont believe we are superior to animals. If anything we are inferior, we put each other down for the clothes people wear, and lust for material items; when all you need is love....We just evolved into more intelligent creatures, but that doesnt make us better. Christians seem to think that animals were put here to serve them, like a buffet or something.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:57 am 
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Wiser folks than I have been succinct in their opinions:

If there were no God, there would be no Atheists.
-- GK Chesterton

If there were no God, it would be necessary to invent him.
-- Voltaire

The god of the cannibals will be a cannibal, of the crusaders a crusader, and of the merchants a merchant.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

God gave us the gift of life; it is up to us to give ourselves the gift of living well.
-- Voltaire

If God created us in his own image, we have more than reciprocated.
-- Voltaire

Every man makes a god of his own desire.
-- Virgil

God is a thought who makes crooked all that is straight.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.
-- Frank Lloyd Wright

I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much.
-- Mother Teresa

God, to me, it seems, is a verb not a noun, proper or improper.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller

God is an unutterable sigh, planted in the depths of the soul.
-- Jean Paul Richter

I don't believe in God but I'm very interested in her.
-- Arthur C. Clarke

and finally (e.g., regarding the acrimony between otherwise civil members of SPCR and the world in general),

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
--Voltaire

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:28 pm 
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Sorry for answering so late (been sort of busy with preparing christmas, an no I don't think there is a god)

SO == Significant Other, a PC way of saying girlfriend/boyfriend when you don't know the preferences of the person you are referring to.

In this case it can be called a bait since Ralf has talked about his girlfriend here :-)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:16 pm 
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SO? heh, i guess that would be PC; it even applies if the SO was a dog, a tree, anything. Good word, ill have to remember it.

Unless I know a person is, err, different though, I'll still ask a guy about his g/f and vice versa. It could be taken as sort of a "so are you gay or straight?" question. Know what I mean? Someone questioning my sexuality would make me uncomfortable so it may be preferable to assume the other person is normal. Heh, after all, in a gay or other relationship, doesn't one partner usually play the male and the other the female? That's what I hear, but I could be misinformed.

Heh, any of y'all been clubbing much recently? Perhaps the ideal PC question is "are you a guy/girl/other?" and then "are you gay/straight/both/other?"


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:01 pm 
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Quote:
"so are you gay or straight?"


Heck, I sorta wanted the thread to drift to more Zen stuff! :(

"Fanaticism:
When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kind of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt."

Robert M. Pirsig (1928 - )

Pretty good book by Mr. Pirsig, especially if you have a keen interest in mechanical things.

M


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:33 pm 
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mas92264 wrote:
Pretty good book by Mr. Pirsig, especially if you have a keen interest in mechanical things.

I presume you mean Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? Yup, a very good read.

My personal philosophy tends more towards Taosim. You know, "S**t Happens." :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:19 pm 
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The yeses outnumber the nos 11-10, looks like there is god.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 7:08 pm 
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lol i havent voted yet, i like to be the one to tip the balance muahha

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 7:29 pm 
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Trip wrote:
The yeses outnumber the nos 11-10, looks like there is god.


Typical! Ignore me and the other agnostic who voted "Don't Know!"

:)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 10:11 pm 
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Ever hear of majority rule?

get off the fense and take a side!



:wink: (this is the official symbol that I'm joking around from now on)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 4:49 am 
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ruprag wrote:
In this case it can be called a bait since Ralf has talked about his girlfriend here :-)


Nope, wife only. No girlfriend. I'm a happily married one woman man.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:54 am 
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Ohh, so your wife is not your friend ??

















Just kidding :-)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 2:37 pm 
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Ralf's from SoCal. His wife is his beatch.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:55 pm 
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tragus wrote:
If there were no God, there would be no Atheists.
-- GK Chesterton


If there were no unicorns, there would be no Aunicornists.

I am about as staunch an atheist as you'll ever meet. I answered "don't know" because the question is way too vague. If the question had been "Does the Christian/Muslim/etc. god exist?" then my answer would likely be "no." But since the question is more general than that, my answer is technically "don't know."

I don't know that gravity is a consequence of interacting masses, that opposite charges attract, or that there is no god... but all available evidence leads me to tentatively hold those beliefs until new evidence contradicts my beliefs.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:27 pm 
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MikeC:
BUT the network which has the Vatican at its head -- well, to me, that's just another state with all the apparatus, extremely active financial arm, political BS and out-of-touch ideology -- all with the aim of ensuring its own survival.

Jesus' last prayer at Gethsemane the night before he died was for unity, which shows just how important it is. A hierarchical structure helps ensure that unity and provides a singular doctrine of beliefs within the entire Church, but at the same time it introduces all sorts of politics. It's a double edged sword.

As for the term "out-of-touch ideology", if you mean that the CC is not very accepting of modern ideas such as gay marriages, abortion, etc., that's the whole point. They're maintaining the Truth that was given to them 2000 years ago. If the truth is absolute, it will not change with the times. If they were flexible, the rules could be anything by now.

Quote:
Bluefront:
Too bad truth hurts, but if you cannot face up to it, may as well continue wearing your rose-colored glasses, and carrying your Bible, and looking up to the sky. Oh and keep that little fish symbol on your trunk. But my little fish has feet...heh.

Agreed, the truth very often hurts. Indeed, even if I was an athiest, I'd have to admit that the Bible carries a lot of truth that I haven't found elsewhere. For example, the notion that pride is the root of all sin. The most difficult people to work with (Christian or not) are those full of pride. They're hard to motivate when the task doesn't feed their ego, they "stick-to-their-guns" even when they know their guns are wrong, and they tend to be selfish. I've seen pride render a brilliant coworker useless to us and humility bring out the best in a rookie.

Quote:
Seltzer:
Well, I thought we'd be able to get through this thread without anyone's beliefs being attacked. So much for that idea.

::shrug:: A testament to the truth is how well it withstands attack.

To answer the original question, I believe in God, our Heavenly Father.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:53 am 
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The poll is tied: 13-13. And the agnostic at 4 with :shudder: 13%. Coincidence? I think not!

heyperslug, what do you think of: The Passion of the Christ (2004) and this book. Heh, I ordered the book for my granddad for Christmas and it hasn't come yet. It was recommended by Chronicles Booklog and sounds pretty interesting.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:11 pm 
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Trip wrote:
The poll is tied: 13-13. And the agnostic at 4 with :shudder: 13%. Coincidence? I think not!


It'd be even scarier if it was all tied up at 6.66%!

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