I just swapped my stock video card cooler with the Zalman ZM80A-HP.
I plugged it to the computer and now I'm getting a VGA card error from the computer. Nothing comes up to the screen ,do you think I messed up my video card?
BTW: I have an Radeon 9500 pro
Zalman ZM80A-HP problem
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
My old Ti4600 used to do this intermittantly. I never got to the bottom of the problem.
I tried reseating and cleaning out the AGP slot. This seemed to help - YMMV. I got a can of switch contact cleaner that is great for cleaning out PCI/AGP slots and the card's "golden fingers".
Perhaps something has broken on the card while you were fitting the new cooler or the card has taken some ESD?
Perhaps someone else has some better advice?
I tried reseating and cleaning out the AGP slot. This seemed to help - YMMV. I got a can of switch contact cleaner that is great for cleaning out PCI/AGP slots and the card's "golden fingers".
Perhaps something has broken on the card while you were fitting the new cooler or the card has taken some ESD?
Perhaps someone else has some better advice?
Difficult to say, but video cards and components in general are fragile objects.
Even if it's not the AGP slot on the board, it could be dirt or grime on the "golden fingers" of the card itself - these are worth cleaning IMHO.
If the card really is dead, it could be a number of things e.g. electro-static discharge (ESD) if you weren't grounded while doing the mod and happened to have a static build up on your person. Could also be any accidental knock or physical damage to the card while doing the mod. Even something seemingly very minor has the potential to kill a card.
Most hardware is suprisingly resiliant in my experience, but I still try to treat stuff very very carefully as often I can't (easily) afford to replace any hardware I break
I always try to work on a anti-static mat or bag, earth myself before handling the innards of a PC (or wear a grounding strap), have all the tools I'll need a hand and just generally take my time and be careful. I'm probably over cautious, but as I said, I often can't afford to replace hardware if I break it.
Even if it's not the AGP slot on the board, it could be dirt or grime on the "golden fingers" of the card itself - these are worth cleaning IMHO.
If the card really is dead, it could be a number of things e.g. electro-static discharge (ESD) if you weren't grounded while doing the mod and happened to have a static build up on your person. Could also be any accidental knock or physical damage to the card while doing the mod. Even something seemingly very minor has the potential to kill a card.
Most hardware is suprisingly resiliant in my experience, but I still try to treat stuff very very carefully as often I can't (easily) afford to replace any hardware I break
I always try to work on a anti-static mat or bag, earth myself before handling the innards of a PC (or wear a grounding strap), have all the tools I'll need a hand and just generally take my time and be careful. I'm probably over cautious, but as I said, I often can't afford to replace hardware if I break it.
If nothing ever came up on the screen its doubtful that overheating is the cause.
A couple of possibilities:
1. Your card may have a safety feature that freaks out if the fan isn't connected. Try connecting the fan from the old HSF, just to check.
2. What thermal grease did you use? Ati's have resistors and bridges exposed around the core. Using something like Artic Silver could short one of them if you were sloppy with it. You'll have to pull the cooler off and check. (while you're at it, check that you were getting good contact between the cooler and the core)
3. Make sure that the cooler is installed properly, and that it's not making contact with any part of the card that it shouldn't. Check the back of the card in particular.
4. You may have given the card a static electricity death. Hard to diagnose, but if nothing else fixes it, put the stock HSF back on and RMA it.
EDIT: Lifecycle brings up a good point. I know from experience that installing the Zalman can be a messy process. Double check that you didn't smear any leftover thermal grease on anything that shouldn't have it.
A couple of possibilities:
1. Your card may have a safety feature that freaks out if the fan isn't connected. Try connecting the fan from the old HSF, just to check.
2. What thermal grease did you use? Ati's have resistors and bridges exposed around the core. Using something like Artic Silver could short one of them if you were sloppy with it. You'll have to pull the cooler off and check. (while you're at it, check that you were getting good contact between the cooler and the core)
3. Make sure that the cooler is installed properly, and that it's not making contact with any part of the card that it shouldn't. Check the back of the card in particular.
4. You may have given the card a static electricity death. Hard to diagnose, but if nothing else fixes it, put the stock HSF back on and RMA it.
EDIT: Lifecycle brings up a good point. I know from experience that installing the Zalman can be a messy process. Double check that you didn't smear any leftover thermal grease on anything that shouldn't have it.
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Nowhere_man
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I think I'm gonna RMA it.
When I put the stock cooler back on should I get some thermal glue and apply it or should I just stick it on.
Here is what it looks like.
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/fetede ... m=c422.jpg
BTW: Is there any way they can know if someone OC their GPU or not. (I didn't)
When I put the stock cooler back on should I get some thermal glue and apply it or should I just stick it on.
Here is what it looks like.
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/fetede ... m=c422.jpg
BTW: Is there any way they can know if someone OC their GPU or not. (I didn't)
You can't RMA the card since you modified it. It's against the RMA policy and against the law. That's a risk you took when you modified your card. It even tells you so in the instructions for the Zalman heatpipe.
Why should a video card company give you a new card because you wrecked yours? Should BMW give you a new car because you modified the engine and now it won't start?
Be a man and buy a new card. Or call the video card company and tell them the honest truth. They might still try to fix it for you.
Why should a video card company give you a new card because you wrecked yours? Should BMW give you a new car because you modified the engine and now it won't start?
Be a man and buy a new card. Or call the video card company and tell them the honest truth. They might still try to fix it for you.
I would RMA it without any hesitation.
Put back the hsf and send it back.
About the thermal paste, I would clean the HSF and use a thermal pad of the same yellowish color if you can manage to find one.
Correct me if I am wrong but in my experience some company doesn't bother testing RMA products and will just send a new one.
And if the do test it is limited to plug it in, is it working yes/no? and that's it, no autopsy.
Put back the hsf and send it back.
About the thermal paste, I would clean the HSF and use a thermal pad of the same yellowish color if you can manage to find one.
Correct me if I am wrong but in my experience some company doesn't bother testing RMA products and will just send a new one.
And if the do test it is limited to plug it in, is it working yes/no? and that's it, no autopsy.
So stealing is alright as long as you can get away with it? I'm sure video card manufacturers wouldn't want people promoting fraud here on these boards, and I'd bet the mods feel likewise.fabre wrote:I would RMA it without any hesitation.
Put back the hsf and send it back.
About the thermal paste, I would clean the HSF and use a thermal pad of the same yellowish color if you can manage to find one.
Correct me if I am wrong but in my experience some company doesn't bother testing RMA products and will just send a new one.
And if the do test it is limited to plug it in, is it working yes/no? and that's it, no autopsy.
I am not promoting fraud, as far as I am concerned the video card could have been defective and would have died soon or later.
We don't for sure know it's the mounting of the Zalman that killed the card.
I recently RMA a Hard drive, don't know what killed it for sure, could have been my fault, was I wrong to RMA it?
Another example your cpu dies after you undervolted the HSF fan to 5v.
You are pretty sure the mod had nothing to do with the death, will you RMA it?
I would
Another example your suspended Hard Drive dies, do You RMA it?
Again I would without any hesitation.
We don't for sure know it's the mounting of the Zalman that killed the card.
I recently RMA a Hard drive, don't know what killed it for sure, could have been my fault, was I wrong to RMA it?
Another example your cpu dies after you undervolted the HSF fan to 5v.
You are pretty sure the mod had nothing to do with the death, will you RMA it?
I would
Another example your suspended Hard Drive dies, do You RMA it?
Again I would without any hesitation.
A suspended hard drive isn't in violation of RMA terms.
Frying a CPU because you ran it without enough cooling (a fan @ 5v) is definitely your fault. You would be a crook to RMA it.
This video card worked before the modification, and it doesn't work now. You're saying it just so happened to choose this time to die of "natural causes" ? I think you know that's bogus.
When it comes down to it, it's about being able to live with yourself. Some people are honourable, some people aren't. I still don't think you should be promoting fraud on these boards.
Frying a CPU because you ran it without enough cooling (a fan @ 5v) is definitely your fault. You would be a crook to RMA it.
This video card worked before the modification, and it doesn't work now. You're saying it just so happened to choose this time to die of "natural causes" ? I think you know that's bogus.
When it comes down to it, it's about being able to live with yourself. Some people are honourable, some people aren't. I still don't think you should be promoting fraud on these boards.
RMA'ing a product that you knowingly destroyed yourself is neither illegal, nor fraud.
Nebor I think you're confusing the concept of an RMA, with that of a Return. It's understandable, since now-a-days most companies treat them essentially the same, but they are in fact quite different.
An RMA is the equivalent of sending your computer part "into the shop" to be repaired. It is the company's responsibility to determine what broke on the card, and whether the warranty covers the repair. But given the cost of computer parts these days, compared to the cost of diagnosing a failure, most companies just pitch the RMA'd component and send out a new one.
Think about it from the manufacturer's point of view: They could spend several hundred dollars worth of technician time to figure out that the card's failure wasn't covered under warranty, and at best get a small fraction of that money back by making the user buy a new card. (assuming the user even wants to buy a replacement) Or they could just lose the replacement cost of the card, and keep another loyal customer.
Using your BMW example: It's no different that having your car towed to the shop, and the mechanic, rather than trying to figure out why the engine won't start, simply replaces it completely.
As long as you are honest in your description of the problems on the RMA request form, there's no law breaking involved. Being honest would include the fact that it worked until you swapped the cooler on it.
And yes, suspending your HDD does void its warranty. (it's outside the bounds of "conventional use" as defined in the warranty)
Nebor I think you're confusing the concept of an RMA, with that of a Return. It's understandable, since now-a-days most companies treat them essentially the same, but they are in fact quite different.
An RMA is the equivalent of sending your computer part "into the shop" to be repaired. It is the company's responsibility to determine what broke on the card, and whether the warranty covers the repair. But given the cost of computer parts these days, compared to the cost of diagnosing a failure, most companies just pitch the RMA'd component and send out a new one.
Think about it from the manufacturer's point of view: They could spend several hundred dollars worth of technician time to figure out that the card's failure wasn't covered under warranty, and at best get a small fraction of that money back by making the user buy a new card. (assuming the user even wants to buy a replacement) Or they could just lose the replacement cost of the card, and keep another loyal customer.
Using your BMW example: It's no different that having your car towed to the shop, and the mechanic, rather than trying to figure out why the engine won't start, simply replaces it completely.
As long as you are honest in your description of the problems on the RMA request form, there's no law breaking involved. Being honest would include the fact that it worked until you swapped the cooler on it.
And yes, suspending your HDD does void its warranty. (it's outside the bounds of "conventional use" as defined in the warranty)
Last edited by Rusty075 on Sun May 23, 2004 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ChucuSCAD
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RMA does not mean free ticket to overclock, mistreat, or abuse your computer componets. As I have ranted about in the past it costs us all extra. When I mess up and blow something up because I have over volted it too much, overclocked it too much, or simply messed up in one way or another I suck it up and be a man and buy a new one and toss the old one in the dumpster and chalk it up to experience.
However if I get a part out of the box that just doesnt work right or not at all that is when you should RMA a part, or if you HAVE NOT modified the part in anyway and it fails in a month or so. Then you can RMA it.
To compare to the BMW example. It would be like you taking your brand new BMW adding a lift kit, mud tires, and some of those fancy lights to it and off roading with it and breaking an axel. Opps you think I can't afford to get this fixed so I will just take off the lift kit, the mud tires and the fancy lights and make it look like it did new and get BMW to fix it all for free. Could the axel have broken during normal use down the road? Who knows now. Does that sound right to you? I didn't think so.
Rant done.
chucuSCAD
However if I get a part out of the box that just doesnt work right or not at all that is when you should RMA a part, or if you HAVE NOT modified the part in anyway and it fails in a month or so. Then you can RMA it.
To compare to the BMW example. It would be like you taking your brand new BMW adding a lift kit, mud tires, and some of those fancy lights to it and off roading with it and breaking an axel. Opps you think I can't afford to get this fixed so I will just take off the lift kit, the mud tires and the fancy lights and make it look like it did new and get BMW to fix it all for free. Could the axel have broken during normal use down the road? Who knows now. Does that sound right to you? I didn't think so.
Rant done.
chucuSCAD
Doing something illegal is nowhere near as serious as doing something immoral. And in this situation that you're describing, it sounds as if you could do something immoral without doing something illegal.Rusty075 wrote:It's not just semantics. Accusing someone of doing something illegal is a serious thing. And you don't have to lie to RMA the card either.
If the card failed with a properly installed Zalman cooler then the card is defective.
And no, not a lawyer.
Nebor
The guy video card is dead after he installed a zalman and he is going to RMA it, so what?
He should just sit on his 300$ when the multi-million company he bought it from has the RMA cost incuded in its selling price and they are used to replace loads of video card every day, and still make more than decent profits?
Well if you think it is not right that's your opinion fair enough you are not the only one to think that, but don't start talking about morality, honour, legallity or fraud because none of these terms are appropriated when talking about a RMA on a video card.
The guy video card is dead after he installed a zalman and he is going to RMA it, so what?
He should just sit on his 300$ when the multi-million company he bought it from has the RMA cost incuded in its selling price and they are used to replace loads of video card every day, and still make more than decent profits?
Well if you think it is not right that's your opinion fair enough you are not the only one to think that, but don't start talking about morality, honour, legallity or fraud because none of these terms are appropriated when talking about a RMA on a video card.
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ChucuSCAD
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In a word yes. It is because of people like him and you that make us pay more for cards because of RMAs of this nature. If people simply sucked it up and thought for just a moment that they messed up the card and that the card was just fine before they started monkeying with it we would ALL save money.fabre wrote:Nebor
He should just sit on his 300$ when the multi-million company he bought it from has the RMA cost incuded in its selling price and they are used to replace loads of video card every day, and still make more than decent profits?
Can you prove it was because of a defective card? NO! In the process of removing the stock cooler and popping on the zalman did he happen to knock something loose or apply too much pressure and bend the PCB? Who knows? You will never know. The bottem line is that you me and everyone on these forums should know the second we use or modify a part from its original STOCK configuration we have officially given up the right to RMA or warrenty replace a product.
chucuSCAD
Completely, totally wrong. Sorry.
It's not the user's job to decide what killed his card, unless he knows for sure that it was actually his fault. In this case, PcGamer has no idea if he killed the card or not, so he should RMA it. No question.
It's Ati's job to tell him what killed it, and whether or not the warranty will cover the cost of repair. If they choose not to, that's their choice..it's their money.
His job is to pay to return the card, and tell them what the symptoms are. It's that simple. Now, as I've said before, lying on the RMA form is wrong. (immoral is a bit strong, but it is dishonest)
And yes...telling them the truth in this case makes it almost definite that they will say that the warranty was voided, and tell you that you'll have to pay for the repair. But doesn't make it illegal or immoral to file the RMA. They might say, "oops, you got one of those cards with the defective caps, it was only a matter of time till it died"
RMA'ing is not like bringing a pair of pants back to the store after you've worn them...it's like bringing your car into the shop.
To continue the car analogy:
Say you put new mudflaps on it (the fancy kind, with the naked ladies!), and then 2 weeks later the power windows stop working. Do you say to yourself, "Self, those mudflaps were non-factory accessories, and thusly in violation of my warranty, so therefore I should not attempt to have the shop see why my windows stopped working" ?
It's not the user's job to decide what killed his card, unless he knows for sure that it was actually his fault. In this case, PcGamer has no idea if he killed the card or not, so he should RMA it. No question.
It's Ati's job to tell him what killed it, and whether or not the warranty will cover the cost of repair. If they choose not to, that's their choice..it's their money.
His job is to pay to return the card, and tell them what the symptoms are. It's that simple. Now, as I've said before, lying on the RMA form is wrong. (immoral is a bit strong, but it is dishonest)
And yes...telling them the truth in this case makes it almost definite that they will say that the warranty was voided, and tell you that you'll have to pay for the repair. But doesn't make it illegal or immoral to file the RMA. They might say, "oops, you got one of those cards with the defective caps, it was only a matter of time till it died"
RMA'ing is not like bringing a pair of pants back to the store after you've worn them...it's like bringing your car into the shop.
To continue the car analogy:
Say you put new mudflaps on it (the fancy kind, with the naked ladies!), and then 2 weeks later the power windows stop working. Do you say to yourself, "Self, those mudflaps were non-factory accessories, and thusly in violation of my warranty, so therefore I should not attempt to have the shop see why my windows stopped working" ?
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ChucuSCAD
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I would also like to note that in all of my ranting I am assuming that the person doing the RMA of the misstreated, modified, or however used in an improper way is going to LIE when filling out the RMA slip saying something to the effect of "the card simply stopped working I just dont know why, I didn't change anything" of course this after you have carefully removed any evidence of missuse, modification or other abuses.
By all means RMA the part and tell the truth, "yes I want to RMA this card because after installing a Zalman cooler the card stopped working" or better yet "I would like to RMA this hard drive because it stopped working when dipped in mineral oil".
You are still wasting the companies time because they have to open the box read the slip and send you back the form letter explaining to you how many different ways you voided your right to RMA the item.
TELL THE TRUTH when you RMA an ITEM don't lie.......
chucuSCAD
By all means RMA the part and tell the truth, "yes I want to RMA this card because after installing a Zalman cooler the card stopped working" or better yet "I would like to RMA this hard drive because it stopped working when dipped in mineral oil".
You are still wasting the companies time because they have to open the box read the slip and send you back the form letter explaining to you how many different ways you voided your right to RMA the item.
TELL THE TRUTH when you RMA an ITEM don't lie.......
chucuSCAD
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ChucuSCAD
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He obviously modified a part directly related to the card itself, not the CD-ROM drive, to compare to your example.Rusty075 wrote: To continue the car analogy:
Say you put new mudflaps on it (the fancy kind, with the naked ladies!), and then 2 weeks later the power windows stop working. Do you say to yourself, "Self, those mudflaps were non-factory accessories, and thusly in violation of my warranty, so therefore I should not attempt to have the shop see why my windows stopped working" ?
chucuSCAD
Mocking people who's names show up as Administrator is not a real wise thing.ChucuSCAD wrote:....or better yet "I would like to RMA this hard drive because it stopped working when dipped in mineral oil".
I can do evil, evil things to your sig......
But you're right, about the lying part of it, being honest in the process was one of points I was trying to make (apparantly poorly )
But could you imagine the look on the poor tech's face when he unpacks the HDD...and it drips?
That'd be worth the cost of shipping 