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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:24 am 
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http://people.overclockers.ru/mixrus1/record6

The retentions don't match, the AC holes are in square formation, the Gtx460 has perpendicular. So What this person did is to put some sort of organic glass between the heatpipes and the fins, and bolted the pcb to the glass. I guess it is better than to have it sit in a drawer until next generation GFX with square holes is present. Mine does exaclty that. I will have to cut one heatpipe for it to fit on my palit, at least the pcb holes match that of AC S1.


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:34 am 
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Damn, I was about to get this gigabyte 460OC 1GB, when I saw all the reviews on newegg saying that the card had become defective after a month or two.

One review says "The cooler doesn't meet the needs of the vram and power vrm. Capacitors get very hot at high clocks. Insignificant cooling for the mosfet stages and chokes also get hot. The fans are physically sharp and have sustain cuts when plugging in extra usb headers."

So, I think I'll buy something else! Any recommendations for an alternative that is or can be bios modded to be quiet, and also sufficiently cools the card so that it doesn't develop faults?

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2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:07 am 
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I JUST bought this one - MSI's N460GTX

MSI, good brand, very nice warenty, and look at the stock cooling on that thing!
The reason I got this card was the price was right, easy to over clock with MSI afterburner (and these cards over clock like crazy..), and the stock cooling solution on it is probably going to be better than the $40 zalman I have on my current old 8800GS.

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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:47 pm 
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Yeah, but I want a 1GB 256-bit model. Besides, doesn't the gigabyte have two 92mm fans, which should surely be capable of running quieter than the one on the MSI?

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2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:32 pm 
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doveman wrote:
Yeah, but I want a 1GB 256-bit model. Besides, doesn't the gigabyte have two 92mm fans, which should surely be capable of running quieter than the one on the MSI?
Have, yes (dunno is they're 92 or not). Run slower [at idle]? No. You've got to do BIOS modding to get them running very slow. Also, the MSI's single fan is much bigger. I'm not knocking the GB, or anything, but if they've got a bad batch out there, you could get one with a reference cooler...or even go aftermarket (I'm pretty sure AC and Prolimatech are the only current options).


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:34 am 
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It must have two 80mm then, as the MSI's one is 90mm. Still doesn't tell me which is quieter though.

I am knocking the Gigabyte as I don't want to be dealing with returning it in a month or two, by which time the supplier will be trying to tell me to send it back to the manufacturer. According to posts on the Gigabyte forum, there's also problems with the drivers which are preventing booting up.

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2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:53 am 
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Two fans aren't always better than one..the stock cooler on the MSI card I linked has a very respectable thermal mass, which people often forget about. It's not just about the fans, its about how well the heatsink can dissipate the heat generated on the GPU. The MSI card has a hearty heatsink and reviewers on newegg and other online stores wrote the card exhibits extremely low temperatures at load, which means I can turn the fan without the card cooking.

When it comes down to it, stock coolers can't compete with an aftermarket cooler + quality fan. However, it's surely safe to say that not all graphics cards are created equal.

PS: they make a 1gb version of the card I linked..I just didn't see a need for the extra memory.

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The Rig: Asus P5Q, e8400 O.C.'d to 3.6 Ghz w/ Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro, MSI GTX460 768MB, 4x1gb G.Skill@1066Mhz, 320gb WD & 500gb Samsung suspended, Corsair 520W PSU, Windows 7 Professional x64


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:18 am 
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Thanks for the tip, I'll look at the 1GB version of that card.

I agree it's not all about the fan(s). From the comment I posted, it seems the capacitors, mosfets and chokes aren't properly cooled (inadequate/missing heatsinks maybe). If this is the cause of the faults after one or two months, then it seems more like a serious design flaw than a bad batch.

So I'm hoping I can find a card that doesn't have such a design flaw and is properly cooled. If I have to, I'll fit a third-party cooler, but that should be more about making it quieter and the card as supplied should not require a third-party, warranty invalidating, mod to prevent it sustaining damage from heat.

So sure, the MSI's got a nice big fan on it, but that doesn't tell me much about whether the various parts of the card are adequately cooled. As far as I knew, Gigabyte was a good brand (I've never had any problems with their motherboards), so I can't put much stock in brands either I'm afraid. I need people to advise me which cards are properly cooled. Maybe all of them are fine apart from Gigabyte, but with so many different designs/models, it doesn't seem safe to assume anything these days.

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2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:50 am 
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Well..I actually trust newegg reviews when there are enough of them. If a given product has 94% positive reviews, and there are hundreds of them, you can bet your ass it's a good product. Especially considering bad products motivate people to write reviews more often than good ones I feel like..

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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:54 am 
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Yeah, that's a good point. I should go and research the reviews there. Cheers for the tip.

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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:46 am 
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doveman wrote:
According to posts on the Gigabyte forum, there's also problems with the drivers which are preventing booting up.
...which is also affecting other makes, and is not affecting every card (mine has been running fine for almost 3 months...).

I'd bet they either had a manufacturing problem with a batch, got a bad (or mislabled) batch of caps, or something along those lines. However, why not just get an MSI? If you're really serious about its noise, just figure on a non-stock cooler sooner or later (I'm holding out for updates to TR's line-up, before I jump).


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:41 pm 
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You're probably right that it might have been a bad batch that caused the failures, but if I know there's the risk of getting one of these, and Gigabyte aren't providing any information to help me avoid doing so but are happy to keep dumping them on the market and for the consumer to deal with the hassle of having to return them, then I'm inclined to avoid them.

As for the driver problem, again there seems to be little information about why this is happening, which isn't very encouraging for potential customers, although if it's affecting all makes I either take a chance or go ATI I guess.

I may well get an MSI and fit a stock cooler if necessary, I'd just rather get the quietest reliable card possible (which may well be the MSI) in the hope that I find it acceptable enough not to feel the need to mod it. This is the best site to find that sort of information, so I'm here looking for tips to guide my decision. Perhaps it's too early, or there's not enough users of these cards here, for that information to be available yet, in which case I'm happy to wait rather than rush into anything.

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2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:16 pm 
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MSI installed. too lazy to update my pictures in my signature, but this card is QUIET. The card is shorter than my old 8800 and its much heavier: the stock heatsink on it is massive for an off the shelf card. It's extremely cool. Sitting at under 40C right now with the fan turned down to minimum spinning voltage.

MSI utilities murder my old EVGA ones. Kombuster is a free diagnostic utility which I haven't played around with, but it helps you test stability. Afterburner lets you overclock it with a nice GUI. Also lets you set fan profiles down to 1 degree C, and between 40% to 100% fan speed.

All in all, I couldn't be happier with my MSI gtx 460.

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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:43 am 
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Thanks for the further detail. I don't need pictures ;)

When you say it let's you set fan profiles down to 1C, does that mean you can set the fan to run at 40% until the temp reaches whatever you've set (eg 60c)? Is there just the one setting, or are there several steps you can set (eg 40% until 60c, 60% until 70c)?

I guess with the MSI fan/heatsink being quiet and efficient, it's not such a problem if I can't reduce the fan below 40%, as some other people have needed to do with other cards to make them quiet enough.

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2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:29 pm 
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You can actually set up a fan profile for speed. You can put up to 8 points on a curve I believe. For example: at 50C you might want the fan at 50%, then at 55C you can have the fan at 52%, and then at 60C you could have the fan linearly increase to 70% or something.

Afterburner literally lets you control the fan down to 1 degree C, at any speed you want between 40% and 100%, and before you think 40% is fast..think again. I can't hear it over my ridiculously quiet PSU fan.

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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:50 am 
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Sounds like Afterburner has got more than enough control then :)

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2nd PC: MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955@3.5Ghz, TRUE Rev. C/Nexus, HD6850 1GB, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W, Bach VX case


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:12 am 
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All hail the mighty Unwinder.
Apparently, he doesn't have the free time to keep Rivatuner up to speed, these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:07 pm 
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Cerb wrote:
All hail the mighty Unwinder.
Apparently, he doesn't have the free time to keep Rivatuner up to speed, these days.


Why keep anything up to speed when MSI does it for me? For almost every card I use, I just set the overlock and fan speed once and forget it.

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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:59 pm 
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RoGuE wrote:
Cerb wrote:
All hail the mighty Unwinder.
Apparently, he doesn't have the free time to keep Rivatuner up to speed, these days.

Why keep anything up to speed when MSI does it for me? For almost every card I use, I just set the overlock and fan speed once and forget it.
Rivatuner has far more features than Afterburner.


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:55 pm 
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i'd like to try rivatuner, but i can't find any reason to stop using afterburner.

if i thought that rivatuner could improve my gtx460 sli setup beyond 1.1v/880/1760/2250, tho, i might give it a shot.


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:05 pm 
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danimal wrote:
i'd like to try rivatuner, but i can't find any reason to stop using afterburner.

if i thought that rivatuner could improve my gtx460 sli setup beyond 1.1v/880/1760/2250, tho, i might give it a shot.
It won't. Its handy features, over Afterburner, largely revolve around being able to set hidden compatibility features, override resolution and refresh rates, even beyond what you can normally force, and such esoteria as that. All Afterburner lacks, compared to Rivatuner, in the features it offers, is some CPU info in the OSD.


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:21 pm 
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let us not forget...in the bottom right corner of Afterburner it says and I quote: "Powered by Rivatuner"
I have no desire to fuck around with any other GPU settings other than clock speed, shader and memory speed. I want fan control too, and afterburner has all of that and more (voltage control etc.)

What I've pretty much done with this card is OC it to the point where it hits about 60C load, and then stop. it's completely stable, and I don't really want it getting much hotter than 60C core temp. For this purpose, Afterburner is lightweight, super easy to use, and there's no fucking around with a bunch of settings that I'm not even informed enough to change.

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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:24 pm 
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I'd just like to say i've been running the MSI 460 768mb cyclone for a couple weeks and even to my discerning ears in my case with only 3 noctua NF-S12B fan it is very quiet. It's a very efficient that is so cool it could probably almost run passive - never breaks 60 degrees in game on my system and thus the fan never goes above 40%. Highly recommend it.


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