Which cooler for a modded 6950?

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:40 pm

I'm leaning back towards the Accelero Xtreme again, but can anyone tell me why I should buy the Accelero Xtreme Plus for £42
and then have to pay extra for the VR001 set, when I can buy the Accelero Xtreme 5870 for £38 , which according to the review on here (see bottom of page 1) is the same thing and comes with the VR001 set?

magu2k · Post by **magu2k** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:09 pm

Both of those 2 are the same links, same product. the 5870 one is only made for the 5000 series and if you look at the pics on http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/vga/2 ... tml?c=2182 second row, 3rd pic from left it doesn't show any vrm heatsinks that will work on a 6950, at least that I recognise. Whereas the one in the review is an extreme plus and has sinks that will work on vrms although it looks like it's not a single heatsink with mounting pins, just separate small ones you put on with thermal tape or more likely thermal adhesive pad.

EDIT: What I failed to mention is, the review is for the xtreme plus, not the 5870. I am quite sure you need the extreme plus.

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:23 pm

Yeah sorry. The second link for the cheaper Xtreme 5870 should have been http://www.awd-it.co.uk/scripts/prodVie ... oduct=8960

Anyway, the Xtreme Plus doesn't come with any heatsinks for the VRM or RAM (as it mentions in the review), so I'd have to buy the VR001 kit (or something else) whatever I buy, so it would seem to make sense to buy the cheaper of the two.

The other confusing thing is that the 5870 shows a cutout to fit the DVI connector box on the 6950, whereas the Plus doesn't so I don't see how it would fit.

And whilst this picture of the 5870 gives the impression that the cooler plate is further back than on the Plus, this can't be the case as the Plus is listed as compatible with both the 5870 and the 6950, which it couldn't be if they had their cores in different positions.

Tzupy · Post by **Tzupy** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:04 am

According to the SPCR review, the Shaman bends the PCB less than the Accelero Xtreme, even if if weighs a bit more.
Probably because it puts less torque on the PCB, since it's shorter. But it takes one extra slot (4 versus 3).
Maybe the PCB bending issue could be mitigated by suspending the upper-right corner of the card by some
fishing line (or other strong and insulating line) that would be attached to the top of the case.

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:11 am

I have considered the Shaman but I'm not sure I can spare four slots, but even if I could it still leaves the issue of cooling the VRM. Whilst it seems I could leave the stock VRM heatsink in place with the Shaman, unlike with the Xtreme, I don't think the Shaman would provide enough airflow over it and even if I wanted to spend the extra on a Thermalright VRM heatsink as well, they don't make one that fits the 6950.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:42 pm

How about Thermalright Spitfire? If there's room for it pointing down, you won't sacrifice any slots. No VRM cooling tho.

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:43 am

I have considered the Spitfire and could even perhaps have it pointing up, with the fan providing some extra cooling to the motherboard/Northbridge, but as with the Shaman the lack of VRM cooling rather puts me off. I'm not overly keen on a side-facing fan either as then I'd really need a side-intake vent, which risks letting noise out. Obviously this is less of a problem with slow and quiet fans, but then I tend to notice hard drive whine (although I can largely eliminate that as well by sticking the drive in a home-made enclosure).

At the moment, even with it shader unlocked and overclocked to 900/1350 with Powertune at +20%, I can't get my 6950 to use more than 150W (AC) with GPU Tool stability testing (98% load), so I might be able to get away with a less powerful cooler and run the fans slow enough to be silent or very quiet and still cool the card adequately, but as reviews have shown the 6950 using around 250W at these settings, I'm probably doing something wrong and could yet see the consumption increase.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:16 am

doveman wrote:At the moment, even with it shader unlocked and overclocked to 900/1350 with Powertune at +20%, I can't get my 6950 to use more than 150W (AC) with GPU Tool stability testing (98% load), so I might be able to get away with a less powerful cooler and run the fans slow enough to be silent or very quiet and still cool the card adequately, but as reviews have shown the 6950 using around 250W at these settings, I'm probably doing something wrong and could yet see the consumption increase.

I don't know which reviews you're referring to, but remember there's a big difference between gaming and Furmark.

Here's an example, this 6970 uses 100 W more when Furmark is running, maybe that's where that extra 100 W comes from in the reviews you're talking about?

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:43 am

Sorry, I meant this article and yes, those are Furmark results but I've been testing with GPU Tool, which should load the card almost as much. I'm going to try Furmark next anyway.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:21 pm

doveman wrote:should

We'll see about that . .

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:08 pm

Well...

To be fair, I haven't tried GPU Tool again, so there might have been a problem that was preventing everything working properly. I'll try it again sometime but here's the Furmark results for now.

Furmark 1.9.1 @ 1280x1024. Cat 11.5. 6950 @ 900/1350 @1.1v

PT 0%: Score 2986 - 49FPS, 82A VDDC, 277W AC, Core throttling back to 690Mhz.

PT +10%: Score 3437- 57FPS, 107A VDDC, 307 AC, No throttling

PT +20%: Score 3424 - 57FPS, 107A VDDC, 307 AC, No throttling

So clearly PT+10% does allow Furmark to push the card harder. I can only assume something else is bottlenecking my system and preventing PT+20% from increasing the score any higher.

I'm not quite sure where the throttling limit is, because I also ran Unigine Heaven which drew about the same current and AC (82A, 277W), and that didn't cause the card to throttle at all and PT+10% didn't make any difference.

Mind you, Unigine Heaven and another test I tried showed that the card wasn't stable at 900/[email protected] and my PC was locking up. I bumped it up to 1.175v in Afterburner, which increased load AC draw by about 20-30W (load around 275W at 1.175v and 250W at 1.1v), and then it was fine, but then it prevents the voltage downclocking in 2D mode, so I'm running at 890/[email protected] for now, which is stable. If I can mod the BIOS (which I'd like to do to stop it running at 3D clocks in UVD mode, which it goes into even just watching SDTV) and can set different voltages and clocks for 2D and 3D mode, I might run 3D at 1.175v and see how high I can get the clocks at that voltage.

Here's my Unigine Heaven results:

@900/1350 @ 1.175v PT 0% - 29FPS, Score 731

PT +10% - 28FPS, Score 706

@ 890/1350 @1.1v PT 0% - 27.5FPS, Score 693

Comparison stock 6970 score - 28 FPS, Score 704

swaaye · Post by **swaaye** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:18 am

Yeah when you use Furmark on these chips you can see why they invented Powertune and why Cayman was really meant to be built on 32nm.

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:23 pm

Hmm, Heaven keeps locking up my PC now at 890/[email protected], so it looks like I'm going to have to bump up the voltage to get a decent overclock out of this card.

I've realised that when assessing the draw of the card, I wasn't allowing for the CPU load, as it seems that Heaven at least fully loads three of my four cores (Athlon II X4 630). So even though the AC draw increases from 95W to 260W, a chunk of that is the CPU (although if the 6950 draws 28W at idle, I have to take that into consideration when calculating the total draw of the card).

So if I estimate that 90W of the 260W is the CPU, that leaves 170W. So I'm going from 95W to 170W (once I take the CPU out of the equation), which is an increase of 75W, then if I add the 28W it draws at idle, it gives me 104W AC load.

I don't suppose my calculations will stand up to much scrutiny, I'm just setting out my thinking really

SebRad · Post by **SebRad** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:49 pm

Hi Doveman, if you're still looking for a cooler I think there is a new version, the Accelero XTREME Plus II.
Looking at the pics it looks like it has the cut out to clear the DVI box and comes with the VRM and RAM sinks in the package. (that you need anyway)
A quick Google shoping search turned it up here in stock for £46. As long as it's what it's claimed to be, maybe available elsewhere too.
The fans on this thing are controlled off the video card aren't they? My after market cooler, with further after market PWM fans on my GTX260 is done that way and I think it's the best as the card can control it's own fan speed based on need. Quiet at idle and faster under load, although mine needs serious abuse to get the fans above their 625rpm idle!

Good luck, Seb

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:10 pm

Thanks. The only thing that's stopping me buying an Accelero Xtreme is the fact that I'll have to remove the stock VRM cooler and replace it with a shorter one and seeing as how my card doesn't appear to support VRM temp monitoring, I'd have no idea if it was being adequately cooled or not

I still don't know how the Xtreme Plus was supposed to fit on 6950s if it didn't have a cutout for the DVI box which all 6950s seem to have. Accelero haven't got back to me on that

Regarding the overclocking problem, to save wasting power what I'm doing is using Afterburner's keyboard shortcuts to overclock the card before I play a taxing game and then switch it back to default clocks for the rest of the time (watching TVs, movies, etc). Not ideal, but works well enough.

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:32 pm

Well I got round to looking at the VRM cooler, and a rough measurement of the space between the board and heatsink shows it's about 1cm, so I shouldn't need to replace it to fit the Accelero Xtreme which is good.

I think I'm going to replace my motherboard first though, as I'll have trouble accessing the SATA ports on this one with the Accelero Xtreme fitted, and it's also a POS that reboots when resuming from standby if the FSB is overclocked (thanks for that Biostar)

So, I'm looking for a DDR3 motherboard with right-angled SATA ports, 7+2 audio, that overclocks well without any problems resuming from standby. I understand this might be an AMI BIOS problem, so perhaps I need to limit myself to boards with the Award Bios. The Asus M5A97-EVO looks like it might be OK, but I'm a bit concerned the right-angled SATA ports might actually be too high and get in the way of Accelero Xtreme (or any other 2+ slot cooler, including the stock one) http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS ... EVO/4.html

Does anyone know for sure or can suggest alternatives that either have this sort of 2x2 SATA header nearer the bottom of the board, where it won't get in the way, or have a 1x4 SATA header, that will be low enough not to worry about?

I think the only thing I'll miss from my Biostar board is the built-in power and reset buttons, which are quite handy when I'm testing/running outside a case.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:58 pm

- I guess you can use angled SATA cables instead.

- About angled SATA ports, given that the cooler has more clearance for angled SATA ports than the graphics card, what makes you think it wont have enough room for those ports?
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimag ... mage=33639

- About the reboots, are you sure that the SATA/PCIe frequencies are set the right way in BIOS? Sometimes they follow the HTT speed and causes issues, unless they're set separately.

- Isn't there a way to make the HTT change automatically depending on CPU load? I honestly don't know.

- Dunno if this is of any use: http://www.rebelshavenforum.com/sis-bin ... 5;t=000776

- If you're going to buy a new board, make sure it's AM3+, just like the one you mentioned. UEFI is also good, for faster boots.
This site is pretty good for finding the board you want by choosing features, even tho in german: http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?cat=mbam3p&sort=bew

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:42 pm

As was discussed earlier unfortunately angled SATA cables aren't really an option with my board for other than the ports at each end (otherwise they just block the adjacent ports) and zyrobs found (with another board) that they still push the card out a bit, and I'll want it to be in securely considering the weight

I expect the angled cables would clash with any card long enough to reach them, not just the Accelero Xtreme.

Yeah, PCI-E speed is locked to 100Mhz and Biostar have confirmed this board is a POS anyway "when system resume, it will check many places include voltage and clock, also bios have problem to program the OC frequency and voltage after resume, please don't use standby while OC it might cause problem".

The only thing I haven't tried is setting the voltages in BIOS but putting the FSB back to 200 and using AMD Overdrive to increase the FSB from within Windows. I'm not confident this will work very well though and I think I've read about AMDOD "forgetting" the overclock (maybe after resuming). It might not work well with PhenomMSRTweaker either, which I want to use to save power/heat when idle.

Thanks for the Rebels Haven link but I saw that already when I was looking into this problem, and that seems to be yet another problem with the TA790GXBE with ACC enabled, which I'm not using.

Unfortunately that other site doesn't appear to have "right-angled SATA ports that won't block my long graphics card" as a searchable option, so the only way for me to find a board is to look at lots of pictures

It doesn't let me filter by boards with 7+2 audio (multistreaming) either, but these seem to rather hard to find now, which is a shame.

The Asrock 890GX Pro3 looks like a contender, as the right-angled SATA ports look low enough down the board to avoid any 3-slot card/cooler. I also like that the DDR3 slots are a bit further away from the CPU socket than usual, which means less chance of the RAM clashing with the fan on my TRUE rev. C (one bonus of getting a new motherboard is I can get 8GB DDR3 for £50-60, which I'll probably get back selling my 4GB Corsair Dominator DDR2).

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:41 pm

doveman wrote:Unfortunately that other site doesn't appear to have "right-angled SATA ports that won't block my long graphics card" as a searchable option, so the only way for me to find a board is to look at lots of pictures It doesn't let me filter by boards with 7+2 audio (multistreaming) either, but these seem to rather hard to find now, which is a shame.

I was thinking that by the time you have filtered everything else you'd have maybe 3 or 4 boards or so,
and that the final decision would be made by looking at manufacturers sites and reviews.
For instance, Gigabyte and MSI doesn't have UEFI, and I guess you don't care for 990FX.

Like this: http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?do_comp ... cmp=655726
Multi streaming doesn't seem to be that unusual, all these have audio chips that supports it.
http://www.realtek.com/products/product ... ProdID=284
http://www.realtek.com/products/product ... ProdID=173

I guess it's up to you to find out if it's true, check some motherboard manuals maybe.

If you also want internal USB3 headers, well then you're left with only two boards.

SebRad · Post by **SebRad** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:45 pm

Hi, this Zalman ZM-RHS69 6950/6970 VRM heatsink of any interest or potential use?

Seb

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:32 pm

Mats wrote: I was thinking that by the time you have filtered everything else you'd have maybe 3 or 4 boards or so,
and that the final decision would be made by looking at manufacturers sites and reviews.
For instance, Gigabyte and MSI doesn't have UEFI, and I guess you don't care for 990FX.

Like this: http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?do_comp ... cmp=655726
Multi streaming doesn't seem to be that unusual, all these have audio chips that supports it.
http://www.realtek.com/products/product ... ProdID=284
http://www.realtek.com/products/product ... ProdID=173

I guess it's up to you to find out if it's true, check some motherboard manuals maybe.

If you also want internal USB3 headers, well then you're left with only two boards.

Yeah, maybe I should have given it a go before dismissing it. I'm not that bothered about UEFI or USB3 to be honest though. I do want two usable PCI slots however, as I need one for my TV card and want a spare just in case.

Regarding the three boards your link shows however, only the ASUS M5A99X looks like the SATA ports might not clash with the Xtreme. I'll have to contact the manufacturers and ask them exactly how high these ports are and check the clearance of the Xtreme.

As for multi-streaming, I realise several chips support it but it looks like the motherboard manufacturers have chosen not to implement this feature as they don't mention it on the product pages (unlike my Gigabyte MA780G-UD3H which does). I could contact them to confirm though.

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:33 pm

SebRad wrote:Hi, this Zalman ZM-RHS69 6950/6970 VRM heatsink of any interest or potential use?

Seb

Thanks, could be, although my 6950 isn't stock layout so I'm not sure it would fit. How much of an improvement over the stock heatsink would it be anyway?

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:45 pm

I don't get your point about angled SATA port clearance. The pic I posted showed that the cooler isn't the closest part to the motherboard, the graphics card is.
What am I missing here?

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:54 pm

Mats wrote:I don't get your point about angled SATA port clearance. The pic I posted showed that the cooler isn't the closest part to the motherboard, the graphics card is.
What am I missing here?

No, I got that. I'm just not sure that the card itself will clear the SATA ports.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:08 pm

doveman wrote:No, I got that. I'm just not sure that the card itself will clear the SATA ports.

I don't think you have to worry, angled SATA ports exists just because graphics cards are so long.
Just look at the 990FX lineup, which is made specifically for Crossfire. http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?cat=mba ... 0FX#xf_top

ALL of them have angled SATA ports, does that mean that none of them won't work with your card?

Why would they design them like that?

I find it hard to believe.

Well unless your non reference card has a PCB that reaches closer to the motherboard than any graphics card I've seen.

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:12 pm

You make a good point sir. I feel like a dumb-ass

I guess I'm just over-cautious 'cos I keep buying stuff that turns out to be defective in some way or another

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:25 am

Still being over-cautious

I just wanted to check whether my card's layout looks compatible with the Xtreme Plus II. There's pictures of the 1GB version of it here (front) and here (back)

and of m1st's stock 6950 here: http://img.techpowerup.org/110604/20998 ... 2426_o.jpg

I also want to check what would be the best option for the VRM heatsink.

As it's rated for 300W, I assume the supplied VRM heatsink combined with the airflow from the fans will be sufficient to keep the VRM cool up to that power (I can't see it would make any difference that my VRM is at the opposite end of the card from stock cards, as there's fans at both ends). I'm just wondering if there's a better option, considering that the heatsink already on the card is attached with a push-pin at each end and the Accelero ones just seem to stick on? Bear in mind that my card doesn't report VRM temperatures, so I can't try different heatsinks to see which works best.

From the height-restriction drawing, it seems that there's 14mm of clearance at both ends of the card, which is about 1-2mm more than the current cooler.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:08 pm

doveman wrote:As for multi-streaming, I realise several chips support it but it looks like the motherboard manufacturers have chosen not to implement this feature as they don't mention it on the product pages (unlike my Gigabyte MA780G-UD3H which does). I could contact them to confirm though.

I got curious and checked the manual for M5A97 PRO, it says on page 10 that multi streaming is supported.

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:42 pm

Thanks. I've checked that as well, so it seems they just don't bother mentioning it on their product pages. I'll have to check the manuals of any other prospective boards as well. Asus have also said they'll test to confirm that the M5A97 doesn't have the problem of rebooting when resuming from standby with the FSB overclocked, which is nice. They did say they haven't received any reports of this happening but I said I wanted to be sure before I bought it.

Once I'm sure it'll fit and I know what I'm going to do with the VRM, I'll get the Xtreme Plus II and use it with my current board until I replace it. I haven't even got it in a case at the moment and only have one SATA HD connected (and no optical drives), so the ports being blocked won't be a problem until I put it back in a case and connect up more devices.

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:32 am

Sorry to ask again, but I'd be grateful if someone could compare the pictures of the Powercolor 6950 and m1st's stock one that I linked to and tell me whether they look similar enough that the Xtreme II Plus should fit.

I also still need some advice on the VRM heatsink. My choices seem to be, leave the current pushpin heatsink in place, use the one supplied with the Xtreme II Plus, or find a third-party alternative. I'm a bit concerned that there will be a lot less airflow with the Xtreme II Plus compared to the current cooler, so the current heatsink might not be as well cooled and thus not be able to keep the VRM cool enough.

Which cooler for a modded 6950?

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