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 Post subject: Which Radeon 9800 Pro?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:29 pm 
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Location: Sweden
I am a gamer, no question. Understand that FX cards are a lot more noiser + Radeon has better image quality + Radeons are cheaper. Anyway, which 9800 Pro card is the best, or could I just go for the cheapest? Connect3d, Powercolor...? Sapphire have some ultimate edition of a 9800 pro which had this Zalman look-alike passive cooling on. It was damn expensive so I thought not to buy that, but instead buy a cheaper and install the zalman zm80 myself some time (I guess it gets pretty hot - experience from my friends ti4600 tells me that).
Which one have the most silent cooling solution from start (except that Sapphire ult. ed)?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 2:20 pm 
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Location: Kortrijk, Belgium
I asked the same question on another forum when I was about to buy me a 9700pro. They said that the difference between different brands is not big. The biggest differences are in the features list and sometimes you even pay for the name. (like in clothing ;))

I can't help you with the noise part but mine is just regular.
It's silent when compared to a Volcano 7+ at the lowest speed (the volcano has a Delta fan which is known for it's noise :wink:)
But if you compare it to the silent things like a Zalman 400w, it's louder, not alot but it IS louder...

Hope I did help you a little bit :)

KhaN


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 2:47 pm 
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thanks good to know. i am gonna sleep now maybe some more answears drop in by tomorrow. good night.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 2:58 pm 
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I like ATI, I just bought a Visiontek thinking I could save a couple of bucks but it was DOA.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:40 pm 
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Dr.CrackEnHore wrote:
I like ATI, I just bought a Visiontek thinking I could save a couple of bucks but it was DOA.


DOA? maybe tired at the moment...but :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:10 am 
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some of the powercolor videocards come with crappy below spec ram. Its something to watch out for.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:58 am 
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GamingGod wrote:
some of the powercolor videocards come with crappy below spec ram. Its something to watch out for.


yes, i did notice that hear, at the same time in this test it rocks, althou its overclocked already. so i better ask in the store to be sure i get at least ATI reference specification. i probably will go for the powercolor 9800 pro and then install the upcoming new zalman gpu cooling solution ... whatever its called


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:55 am 
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FiXxXeR wrote:
DOA? maybe tired at the moment...but :?


Dead on arrival.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 2:53 am 
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Location: Sweden
damn. returned the powercolor 9800 pro today. tried to figure what made the flickering/various lines painted over screen and freeze when tryin to play Americas Army. even in direct x diagnostic (dxdiag) the problem occured. i touched the hsf on the radeon chipset and it didnt feel to hot. the psu voltages appeared to be fine and stable. tried some different drivers. the system was completely fresh (new install) and there were no old drivers in behind.
i could have just asked for another card to try with, but i dont feel trust in that brand. have read very various thoughts about this particular brand, either very good or very bad. seems high risk to buy it.
someone suggest another one?

and btw...God damn, that fan was noisy. thinkin almost about buying the overpriced sapphire ultimate edition right away (with that zalman look a alike thing)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:22 am 
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Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I've heard more bad things about Powercolor than any other Radeon product.

Personally, I'm just on my way out to pick up a 9800 Pro.

I'll decide at the store(s) when I see the bundle - the ATI, the Sapphire and the Gigabyte are all within $20 Canadian of each other, and when you are already at $500, I'm not sweating a couple more loonies.

ATI=$549
Sapphire=$519
Gigabyte=$546

I'm leaning towards the ATI and Sapphire, partially because of the retailer and their customer service. It will PROBABLY be the Sapphire...

I sure wish there were more reviews that mention the noise factor to help me make my decision, as I have built a fairly quiet system.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:45 am 
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Sapphire is basically built by ati. they fallow exact specs except for teh ultimate version.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 11:03 am 
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DryFire wrote:
Sapphire is basically built by ati. they fallow exact specs except for teh ultimate version.


Sapphire made almost all "built-by-ATI" -cards when they were still sold.

Jan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:54 am 
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if I will go for a 9800 pro now it will be the sapphire ultimate edition. i know its overpriced, but i dont like rippin of the hsf and loose the warranty. the noise from that standard hsf was just terrible. and then again, i've heard that the fx cards is even more noiser...

anyway, that sapphire ult. ed. seems to get damn hot, thats my only concern.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 4:23 pm 
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Location: NorthEast Arkansas, USA
What about this?

I don't typically like to "rig" anything or get "ghetto" in modding expensive components, but I bet the OEM Sapphire at Newegg ($250) would do just fine if you unplug the little screamer fan and use a bracket of some sort (zalman, make-your-own, etc.) and have an L1A pointing straight at the heatsink, just like the stock fan, keeping it at 12 volts.

Not "silent" but damn quiet by comparison. Beleive me, it's not bad at all because I currently have a GF3 Ti200 that has just this fan pointing at it the same way the stock fan blows on it. And it may just be my imagination, but I could swear to you that an L1A mounted horizontally like that (rather than the typical vertical mounting that you do with case fans) is more difficult to hear. I recall reading in this forum that the mounting position of case fans do have a varying effect on the noise levels. I certainly beleive that's true now, having first-hand experience with it.

Here is the OEM Sapphire I'm referring to.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:39 pm 
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FiXxXeR wrote:
damn. returned the powercolor 9800 pro today. tried to figure what made the flickering/various lines painted over screen and freeze when tryin to play Americas Army. even


Fixer, this is a common problem, even in the ATI cards, use the other video connector.

On my 8500 it affected the DVI and not the Analogue, on the 9x00 series boards it supposedly affects the analog and not the DVI.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 4:59 am 
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Wedge wrote:
What about this?

I don't typically like to "rig" anything or get "ghetto" in modding expensive components, but I bet the OEM Sapphire at Newegg ($250) would do just fine if you unplug the little screamer fan and use a bracket of some sort (zalman, make-your-own, etc.) and have an L1A pointing straight at the heatsink, just like the stock fan, keeping it at 12 volts.

Not "silent" but damn quiet by comparison. Beleive me, it's not bad at all because I currently have a GF3 Ti200 that has just this fan pointing at it the same way the stock fan blows on it. And it may just be my imagination, but I could swear to you that an L1A mounted horizontally like that (rather than the typical vertical mounting that you do with case fans) is more difficult to hear. I recall reading in this forum that the mounting position of case fans do have a varying effect on the noise levels. I certainly beleive that's true now, having first-hand experience with it.

Here is the OEM Sapphire I'm referring to.





Tried that on my 4600 - gets too hot with 2 L1a's @ 5v (too loud at 12 v)
Have had to stick a 40 mm fan on it which creates noise in addition to above, may drop it down to 5 v tho.
Otherwise I get BSOD's saying agp failure in XP :(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 6:14 am 
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Incidentally, the Sapphire 9800 pro ultimate edition heatsink is actually made by Zalman.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:13 am 
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Location: NorthEast Arkansas, USA
cliche wrote:
Tried that on my 4600 - gets too hot with 2 L1a's @ 5v (too loud at 12 v)
Have had to stick a 40 mm fan on it which creates noise in addition to above, may drop it down to 5 v tho.
Otherwise I get BSOD's saying agp failure in XP :(



But isn't a 12v L1A more quiet than the 40mm?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:09 am 
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Location: uk
Wedge wrote:
cliche wrote:
Tried that on my 4600 - gets too hot with 2 L1a's @ 5v (too loud at 12 v)
Have had to stick a 40 mm fan on it which creates noise in addition to above, may drop it down to 5 v tho.
Otherwise I get BSOD's saying agp failure in XP :(



But isn't a 12v L1A more quiet than the 40mm?



The card needs 2 x L1a's @ 5v PLUS the 40 mm at 12 (tho will see if it cools enough at 5v). The 40 mm is the loudest thing in my case atm besides my screaming banshee Maxtors. Without these 3 fans, it regularly overheats during gaming sessions :(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 1:06 pm 
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That card gets so hot that it needs two L1As at 5v in addition to the 40mm fan? How do you do that?

Sorry, I don't mean to belabor this point, but that just sounds strange. If you saying that your case needs to L1As then I understand that completely. Most cases with high-end cards need excellent airflow. But if the 9800 gets so hot that it needs more fans pointing on it than the stock fan only, then this thing is VERY hot.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 1:40 pm 
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Location: uk
Wedge wrote:
That card gets so hot that it needs two L1As at 5v in addition to the 40mm fan? How do you do that?

Sorry, I don't mean to belabor this point, but that just sounds strange. If you saying that your case needs to L1As then I understand that completely. But if the 9800 gets to hot that it needs more fans pointing on it than the stock fan only, then this thing is VERY hot.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overclocked card and 2 x L1a's @ 5v don't give much airflow.
The small 40 mm http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/product.php?view=2557 is actually a 50 mm I should say. Very quiet in free air, but terrible turbulence when close to anything. It is actually suspended under the heatsink with thin insulated wire. I mentioned elsewhere in this forum that I have put a Zalman NB heatsink on the GPU with Artic Silver thermal epoxy with ramsinks on the memory (they get HOT!)

I recall that GPU temps can reach 61 C on these cards stock. Mine is 51 C with compunurse stuck on GPU under load an oc'd.

Am into overclocking and silencing - a tough combo, but very rewarding.
Won't bore u with the rest of the overclocking/silencing as it will be off topic.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Summary :
2 x L1a 80mms at 5v on Zalman fan bracket
AGP card and Audigy 2 card creates it own air channel so the fans can blow down it
1 x Zalman NB heatsink thermal epoxied to the GPU
5 (forgot how many -lol) ramsinks on the gfx memory
1 Delta EFB0512LA 50 mm @ 12 v (very quiet in free air, useless otherwise) suspended using insulated wire under the Zalman NB heatsink (less turbulence if some free air gap is given)
4800 Ti (4600 x8 in otherwords) overclocked to 317/319 core/mem
Nexus Istyle case with very poor airflow - but modded with 120mm NMB fan from Dorothy @ 5v in rear using tin snips.

I bought a Zalman HPAand put it on my last 4600 and promptly killed it trying to put the damn Zalman on - the man from Artic Silver denies it was their compound touching my ram
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=5759&highlight=
hence all this.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:54 pm 
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damn - just been running my 3d spex for the 1st time under this combo.
Quake 3 is fine, but anything else which pushes the gpu causes gpu lock up , even when the 50 mm is at 12 v :evil: (the gpu draws the same frame 2x for 3d)

Tempted to rip off the artic epoxied nb off it and think of a new mod (or gfx card-more likly as I will prob **** this up). Gonna search thru the forum to get some ideas on keeping her cool and quiet and get some inspiration as the new 3d spec drivers work very well and are worth it for gaming.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:32 pm 
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Location: Sweden
still haven't bought the sapphire 9800 pro ult. ed. card because i am still considering the price.
this newegg.com is a US based company i guess, right?

since i live in sweden i got tempted by the price tag of the sapphire 9800 pro 128mb ult. ed. at 389USD at newegg.com.
on swedish internet stores price is approx 600USD with todays currency.

what reputation has newegg.com? i've never done orders with foreign companys...feels a bit risky...even if i end up saving money...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:53 pm 
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I know more people (computer geeks like us) who order from newegg than any other online vendor. If you buy from them you can feel confident about your purchase. Buy me one too while you're at it :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 4:46 pm 
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Location: Sweden
well, I ve been in USA some 5-6 times and I know that service is something that the companys (and employes) are well aware of there. my only concern in this matter is how payment is done since i prefeer to pay once i get the product. second concern is what the ship cost will be and also the complicated procedure if the product is not working.

neither do i know what happens if the delivery is lost during freight. the laws in sweden says the customer is free from responsibility - is it the same if this happens ordering abroad like from US?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 7:50 pm 
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Location: NorthEast Arkansas, USA
Usually, payment to Newegg is done using a credit card before you recieve the product. Honestly Fixxer I would not worry about this. It is standard practice to order with credit card and recieve product days later.

If the product arrives damaged or unworking it is up to you to contact Newegg immediately. They will sort out the problem. They will take responsibility should the product be damaged, defective, or lost (if it's damaged then they receive money from insurance because it is smart practice to insure any product before having it delivered). So, if damaged, they replace. If defective, they replace or refund (some items are non-refundable, only replaceable -- read carefully about your product). If lost, they replace.

Cost of shipment varies with the product. You can easily see the cost of shipping before you place the order. Many items are shipped free (if shipped to an address here in the US).

I am not sure of the policy if ordering from Sweden; but if I understand you correctly, you will place the order in the States?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 2:01 am 
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Location: Sweden
thanks for reply!

the order would go oversea to sweden. i will contact newegg and see what their policy is when shipping orders outside US.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:48 am 
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Posts: 54
Location: Sweden
reply from newegg said:

"...
At this time we only ship within the United States and Puerto Rico. We only accept orders prepaid by a credit card issued and drawn from an American bank.

NewEgg.com accepts Visa, MasterCard, Discover or American Express credit/debit cards, pre-paid money orders or check. All forms of payment must be issued and drawn from an American bank. We do not accept purchase orders, CODs, wire transfers or PayPal.
..."

to bad...could have saved some money ... damn I will be broke after this investment haha.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:04 pm 
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Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
[quote="Googlie"]
---snip---leaning towards the ATI and Sapphire, partially because of the retailer and their customer service. It will PROBABLY be the Sapphire---snip---
quote]

... it was the Sapphire, but it's a non pro.
Got a Zalman ZM80C and ZM-OP1 too!

I rethought my needs about the PRO and went with something more sensible. I'm going to try it without the heatsink first, and see how it goes.

I want quiet, and I'm not too concerned about silent...

yet :)

My wifes Dell is quiet, my rig is quieter!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:52 pm 
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...the performance looks good, but the noise from the fan is noticeable. Time to Zalmanize...stay tuned.

:idea:

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