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 Post subject: Silencing my Shuttle SN45G, what fans do I replace?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:54 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Oslo, Norway, Earth
Hi all.
Newbie here, please be kind :)

Just bought my first Shuttle, SN45G.
Quite happy with it, apart from the noise...
The fans are pretty noisy, even at ultra low.
(And using SmartFan, it seems to speed slightly up and down all the time. Barely noticeable, but very annoying...)

I realized that I would have to replace the fans, but there is sooo much info out there. Been browsing this and other forums, but it only adds to the confusion.

Could someone please answer the following:

How much air does the stock I.C.E fan move? (Metrics please ;) )
What is required (minimum)?
What db is it?

How much air does the stock PSU fan move?
What is required (minimum)?
What db is it?

This will help me find a suitable replacement.

I was thinking I could try one of these for the CPU:

- AD0812DBA70GL:
ADDA fan, 34.85m³/hour, 15 dB(A)
http://www.microplex.no/rubweb/varer.asp?ARTNR=AD0812DBA70GL

- 8412N2GL:
Papst fan, 33m³/hour, 12 dB(A)
http://www.microplex.no/rubweb/varer.asp?ARTNR=8412N2GL[/L]


- 8412N2GML:
Papst fan, 45m³/hour, 19 dB(A)
http://www.microplex.no/rubweb/varer.asp?ARTNR=8412N2GML

- SCLFZ1580M:
SmartCooler fan, 45m³/hour, 19 dB(A)
http://www.microplex.no/rubweb/varer.asp?ARTNR=SCLFZ1580M

And there is also a SmartCooler fan that has thermic speed regulation...
Is that something I can use, and is there any point in using it?
SCLFM1580T:
SmartCooler fan, 47m³/hour, 9-21 dB(A)
http://www.microplex.no/rubweb/varer.asp?ARTNR=SCLFM1580T

And for the PSU, there are several fans, but this one moves most air, and is pretty silent:

412:
Papst fan, 10m³/hour, 18 dB(A)
http://www.microplex.no/rubweb/varer.asp?ARTNR=412
(links in Norwegian)

And, is there anything to gain in noise reduction and temp if I remove the grill in the back?

Please help :)

_________________
Shuttle SN45G
CPU: AMD XP 2600+ Thoroughbred
RAM: Geil 1024MB PC3200 400MHz
VGA: Connect3d Radeon 9800 128MB
HDD: 40+60 GB IBM Deathstar
OS: WinXP Pro SP1a
1500/512 NextGenTel ADSL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 12:27 pm
Posts: 1465
Location: Reading.England.EU
Howdy xerox - first of all welcome to SPCR :)

Now I dont know Shuttle at all - someone else may chip in with specifics. But having just touched my first SFF box today (Biostar iDeq) I reckon the way to approach things is (as I did):
1) Remove each of your existing fans and note the details (especially dimensions, maker & model)
2) Check if you have any chance of fitting larger fans
3) Find the fan manufacturer(s) web sites and check the specs of the existing fans.

On the Biostar for example the CPU heatsink and case exhaust are both 60mm * 15mm fans. The heatsink fan dimensions cannot be changed, the case fan could conceivably go to 80mm * 15mm but with significant ugly tinwork. My conclusion is for now I will stick with the stock fans. Are you sure your CPU will take an 80mm fan? And the psu 40mm? AFAIK the only quiet 40mm are either off completely or shifting less air than a mouses fart.

The downside of all this is there are no 'magic' fans of the same dimensions that will shift the same air as your default fans but significantly quieter. Basically if you need an 80mm fan to shift 30cfm you probably need 1 doing around 2500rpm and it will probably be spec'd at 27dBA whichever manufacturer you choose. Having said this the technology/manufacturing by Panaflo, NMB, Papst and YS-Tech tends to turn out some fans with very appealing 'sweet spots'. The biggest gain is to deploy larger fans, but in SFF that is unlikely. Of the fans you list there seem to be several 80mm and some 40mm: if the stock Shuttle fans are 60mm then none is suitable. Also, BTW, having just got a Papst 8412NGLE I would strongly advise it is far quieter than the 8412NGL.

There are possibly some easy gains to be made by cutting out the grills and soft mounting the existing fans, but AFAIK Shuttles (excluding the latest Zen reviewed here recently) are not the quietest and there is a limit to what you can achieve.

_________________
2009/Oct: Jetway JNC81-LF * 4850e naked under fanless Xigmatek Apache * Antec mini Skeleton w/Nexus 120mm PWM fan * Delta 90W brick w/Skeleton DC-DC board * WD2500BEVT 250Gb blue


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:54 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Oslo, Norway, Earth
All the G series Shuttles take 80x25 cpu fans (as far as I know)...
Haven't measured yet, this is just from what I read.
Edit: Just measured, it is 80x25 :)

And the PSU fan is 40x10, don't know if it is possible to cram a 40x20 in there...

_________________
Shuttle SN45G
CPU: AMD XP 2600+ Thoroughbred
RAM: Geil 1024MB PC3200 400MHz
VGA: Connect3d Radeon 9800 128MB
HDD: 40+60 GB IBM Deathstar
OS: WinXP Pro SP1a
1500/512 NextGenTel ADSL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:06 am
Posts: 3214
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
I recall one of the other SPCR regulars having a shuttle SN45G. His suggestion was to replace the CPU fan with a Panaflo FBA08A12M1BX (which is what I'll be doing when my order comes in).

I've cut out the grill in the back and honestly, I can't tell you whether it has made a difference or not, because I never was focusing on the temperatures as closely before. Right now, it's folding so it's kinda loud and it's running at about 52C.

I have no idea what ANY of the metrics are, but you may do well to replace the PSU with Shuttle's SilentX PSU. I haven't read any specific reviews on it though, so I can't say whether it's quieter or not.

MikeC, are you doing a review on this?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:54 pm
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Location: Oslo, Norway, Earth
I read a review of the "silent" PSU.
As far as I understand, it is just as noisy as the stock 200W fan, but considering the fact that it is 350W, it is "silent", relatively speaking.

The Panaflo FBA08A12M1BX is 32.1CFM/28db,
and the Papst 8412N2GML is 26,5CFM/19db.

Now, unless 26,5CFM will be too low air flow, I'd rather go for the Papst at 19db.
That is the audible difference I'm looking for.

_________________
Shuttle SN45G
CPU: AMD XP 2600+ Thoroughbred
RAM: Geil 1024MB PC3200 400MHz
VGA: Connect3d Radeon 9800 128MB
HDD: 40+60 GB IBM Deathstar
OS: WinXP Pro SP1a
1500/512 NextGenTel ADSL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:22 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 12:27 pm
Posts: 1465
Location: Reading.England.EU
OK - just put my brain in gear and remembered the Shuttle heatpipe heatsink layout :oops: I have several Papst 80mm fans including NGL and NGLE. On my 'XP2400' with SLK800a in a well vented midi case these fans are adequate for cooling at 12V but right on the limit.
xerox wrote:
Now, unless 26,5CFM will be too low air flow, I'd rather go for the Papst at 19db.
In an SFF case that is probably a lot warmer I would reckon the Papst NxLx is too risky. So yeah you probably do want a few more cfm in reserve: a YS-Tech FD1281252S-1A (aka Green label) was reviewed very favourably at a Finnish or German site so in theory exists in Europe but I haven't seen one. Otherwise you fall back to the Panaflo, either L1A or M1A.

And yeah, IIRC SPCR does have the new Silenx for Shuttle psu for review - perhaps mentioned in the Zen review or thread?

_________________
2009/Oct: Jetway JNC81-LF * 4850e naked under fanless Xigmatek Apache * Antec mini Skeleton w/Nexus 120mm PWM fan * Delta 90W brick w/Skeleton DC-DC board * WD2500BEVT 250Gb blue


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:54 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Oslo, Norway, Earth
Ok, I placed my order today:

PSU:

Papst 412, 10m³/hour (5,9CFM), 18 dB(A)
This fan is 40x40x20, and actually too big for the PSU.
Apparently it will fit with some modding, but if that fails, I have this as a backup:

Primecooler PC4010L12S, 7,3m³/hour (4,27CFM), 19 dB(A)
(40x40x10)

CPU:
Papst 8412N2GML, 45m³/hour (26,5CFM), 19 dB(A)
Note: this is a three pin molex connector fan, 12V (8-15V), 2050 PRM.
I know the airflow could be higher, but my fan run on ultra low as it is, so I think it should be sufficient.

I could also go for a Papst 8412N2GM, 58m³/hour (34,1CFM), 26 dB(A), 2600RPM, but that's a jump from 19db to 26db...

I would like some feedback on my choises, and a guide for changing PSU fan (and the 40x10 to 40x20 PSU fan mod), can't find any guides anywhere...

:)

_________________
Shuttle SN45G
CPU: AMD XP 2600+ Thoroughbred
RAM: Geil 1024MB PC3200 400MHz
VGA: Connect3d Radeon 9800 128MB
HDD: 40+60 GB IBM Deathstar
OS: WinXP Pro SP1a
1500/512 NextGenTel ADSL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 5:26 pm
Posts: 659
Location: Palm Springs, CA, USA
Oslo,

Is your psu an Enhance or an Achme? I've got both but have only taken the Enhance apart. It would be a tight squeeze to put a 40x20 fan in it. You would have to move the ac ground stud that is welded (I think) to the psu case. Not much room in there. Cut the exhaust grill out on the psu. Piece of cake to remove it and it does make a difference. I also have the 250 watt psu and it's nearly silent. About $70 - $75 in the U.S.

Papst 8412N2GML. I've got one of these and it seemed to have a lot of bearing noise when I put it in my SN45GL. I only tried one, so, you may have a better experience than I did. Changed it for a 80x25 Panaflo MBX and stuck with that. Using SpeedFan, you can reduce the rpm low enough (to about 2%) that the psu fan will be the only thing you hear. That's fine for idle or low stress cpu stuff, however, you'll need more rpm for folding@home or other high cpu usage.

Cutting out the cpu exhaust grill is the way to go. Less noise, less fan rpm, more air flow.

I've got a couple of ADDA 40x10 fans that I was going to use in the cpu - ADO412MX-G70 and ADO412MB-G70. They didn't seem to be any quieter than the oem fan in the psu so I never changed them.

I'll see if I can find a link to changing the psu fan and post it here.

SN45G, Barton 2800, 200w Enhance psu, psu and cpu grills cut out.
SB62G2, P4 2.8C, 250 watt Silentx psu, cpu grill cut out.

M


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:37 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:54 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Oslo, Norway, Earth
Thanks :)

It is an Enhance 200W PSU.
Yes, I will have to move the ground thingy to make place for the 40x20 fan.
But I'll try, hopefully I will succeed...

I also considered epoxying a heat spreader to the ICE block on the CPU to remove even more heat, so that the fan won't have to work as hard.
I think I saw a guide for that somewhere, but I lost the link...
And on the GPU also, any heat spreader tips are welcome :)

Guess I am becoming a Shuttle silencing junkie :oops:

_________________
Shuttle SN45G
CPU: AMD XP 2600+ Thoroughbred
RAM: Geil 1024MB PC3200 400MHz
VGA: Connect3d Radeon 9800 128MB
HDD: 40+60 GB IBM Deathstar
OS: WinXP Pro SP1a
1500/512 NextGenTel ADSL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:09 pm 
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Patron of SPCR

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 5:26 pm
Posts: 659
Location: Palm Springs, CA, USA
Oslo,

Shouldn't be a big deal to cut the ground stud off the psu case. If you can get a Dremel cut off wheel in there, that would probably do the job. Just have to remount the ground somewhere else inside or outside the psu case.

My thoughts were to get a slower turning fan for the the back of the psu and then put a quiet 40x20 fan on the outside front on the psu and then block of the intake air vents. You could then run the 40x20 fan off of the spare fan connector on the mobo. I just never got around to it. Lazy, I guess. :roll:

Neat idea to mount a heatsink on the cpu block. If you look at the pics of the Intel Shuttles, they already have this. Don't know how much good it would do, but, I don't see how it could hurt anything.

GPU? Are you referring to the chip on the video card? I'm using a Nvidia 5200 card, Matrox 550 and Raedon 9200 in my small boxes. All fanless. :)

Couldn't find anything on modding a Shuttle psu. Since you've already taken yours apart and sort of figured out what to do, you're more than 1/2 way there. :D

M


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:54 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Oslo, Norway, Earth
GPU = Graphics Processor Unit.
I did some heavy research on this subject during the last few days.
Although the fans I bought do have lower air flow than the stock ones, I think they will do.

I probably get them next week, I'll post the results here.

(Lol, "fans I bought", sounds like I bought me some groupies :lol: )

_________________
Shuttle SN45G
CPU: AMD XP 2600+ Thoroughbred
RAM: Geil 1024MB PC3200 400MHz
VGA: Connect3d Radeon 9800 128MB
HDD: 40+60 GB IBM Deathstar
OS: WinXP Pro SP1a
1500/512 NextGenTel ADSL


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 Post subject: replacements
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:17 pm
Posts: 17
I have an SB51G with a P4 2.4. I replaced the PSU with the Silent X 250 PSU $70 and it made some difference. I replaced the stock fan with a Panaflo L1A and it made a big difference in noise. Temps MBM 34C CPU at idle, Case at 30C and Ambient temp about 20-22. I did not see a change in temps with the modifications. I am using a passive sink ATI 7500 video card, soundblaster live audio card, one hard drive, no floppy and a Sony DVD burner. I mounted it under a desk top and with my head about 30" from the front I can only hear a little fan noise. I am quiet happy with the change. I had this mounted under the desk before and after the mods.


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