The "New" iMac G5

Info & chat about quiet prebuilt, small form factor and barebones systems, people's experiences with vendors thereof, etc.

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dexton
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Post by dexton » Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:49 am

Chancellor Martok wrote: Anyway regarding the cyclone blowers... I always thought that they were noiser than a fan for the same amount of airflow? Or do I have it the other way round?
well, the G5 iMAC isnt very thick
if using regular fans you'd have to use like 40mm ones (low airflow per decibel)

have you never seen this CPU cooler before?
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20010306/cooler-10.html
look at it and the test results...

vortex222
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Post by vortex222 » Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:48 am

toms idea of quiet is using a bullhorn to think outloud.

vortex222
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Post by vortex222 » Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:51 am

Straker wrote:
vortex222 wrote:as for compairing a mac to a PC. its like compairing my datsun pickup to a corvette. the corvette will go muuuuuch faster, but the datsun will haul alot more luggage........
not gonna argue over anything so petty but that's a very... interesting... comparison. :) always seen and heard it the other way around. otoh you did say "the mac i use" which sounds pretty ancient... i have a g3 333 powerbook for reading mail and stuff too.
i use a g3 500 overdrive on a PowerPC 9100/120..... i have draged that thing thru the mud many times, and it serves well. it is getting time to retire it, however im looking for just another used G4 or somthing of the sort.

anyone selling one for like $200 or less?? lol proly not.

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Post by acaurora » Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:20 pm

Q: Opening up an iMac used to be a weekend project or required a technician. This seems much easier.

A place where the iMac really shines is that it is extraordinarily accessible. The iMac had always been a little bit more difficult to access. Normally if you go to an engineering team and say, "I need it to be smaller, I need it to be more powerful, and I need it to be quieter," if you don't get kicked out of the room, usually you'll be told, "OK, pick two of those." And this is a case, like with the PowerBook, where they said, "We'll deliver all of that." This is obviously significantly smaller than the previous iMac. We made it more powerful with the G5 processor, and we made it quieter -- this is 25db, a whisper is 32db, I think the previous iMac is 28db.
From http://www.macworld.com/news/2004/09/03 ... /index.php

Personally, I think that's BS. Stats may prove otherwise.

Straker
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Post by Straker » Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:42 am

what, the noise or the accessibility? not sure about the previous iMacs with the LCD on the swivel arm thing, but all the CRT ones (and all of Apple's other all-in-one Macs) were a pain to work on.
that reminds me, at least these ones have more or less a proper video card, could still be a lot worse.

acaurora
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Post by acaurora » Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:10 am

I was referring to the noise.

The G4s / G3s were pretty easy to work on.

dexton
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Post by dexton » Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:15 pm

Chancellor Martok wrote:
dexton wrote:have you never seen this CPU cooler before?
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20010306/cooler-10.html
look at it and the test results...
Well despite the fact that Tom's says it's quiet... the summary table says they measured it at 38 dB - certainly not quiet. Sure in that review it's better than all the other HSFs they tested, but they weren't exactly comparing quiet fans to start off with (look at that Delta monster at 4900 RPM and 68 dB :roll:).
hey, just look at the numbers. Im talking cooling per decibel here. There are Alpha heatsinks(one of few with a copper plate in the test) that cools almost as good(2-3 degrees Celsius away) as the Silverado, only difference is that they produce at least 8 more decibels of noise - almost the double noise!

Mats
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Post by Mats » Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:13 pm

If the power consumption for the 90 nm G5 is true (24.5 W at 2 GHz), then it should be just as easy to keep cool like Pentium M.

Metaluna
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Post by Metaluna » Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:01 am

One thing occurred to me...if the screen tilts, then doesn't that mean that you can tilt the HD to an out-of-spec angle? I was under the impression that most hard drives allow 0 or 90-degree mounting orientation, with a few degrees of tolerance around those numbers. Or have the HD manufacturers mostly done away with this in the newer generations?

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I dunno, but...

Post by NeilBlanchard » Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:39 am

Hello:

I don't know the answer to your question, but if the answer is yes -- then how do sellers of laptops deal with people actually operating their laptops on their laps? :P

interpellated
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Post by interpellated » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:47 pm

To those interested, here are some pics of the innards of the new iMac G5; these do not appear to be promo shots, rather it looks like someone opened one up.

http://www.macosrumors.com/90704L.php

MacUser
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Post by MacUser » Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:54 pm

gr8r-x wrote:Just to clear some stuff up;

1. Slot loading DVD drive, most definately not going to be a user replacable/upgradable option, unless Apple decide to release one, which will cost mega $'s..
m_yates wrote:Does anyone know anything about this: http://www.idotpc.com/TheStore/Desktop/ ... &Cate.id=1

It is a similar concept to the new iMac except in a PC. You can buy it barebones and outfit your own. You get better video than the iMac with buit in TV tuner. You can also put in a bigger hard drive, more memory, faster processor, and flexible DVD drive options for a lot less money than an iMac. Of course, what about build quality and noise?
The iMac G5 is the most user servicable iMac ever:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86812

Think you need a new part? You can replace many of your iMac G5's parts yourself.

The iMac G5 is designed to make it easy for you to install replacement parts if you need to. The parts you can install yourself are:

AirPort Extreme Card

Memory - DDR 400 MHz (PC3200) SDRAM

Hard drive

Optical drive

Power supply

LCD display

Modem card

Mid-plane assembly (contains the main logic board, the G5 processor, fans, and so forth).


In addition:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86815

Learn about the diagnostic capabilities of your iMac G5.

The iMac G5 has built-in diagnostic LEDs on the main logic board that can help you to troubleshoot your computer.

To access these LEDs, remove the back cover of the computer:

Turn your computer off (choose Shut Down from the Apple menu). If you can't shut it down that way, you can turn the computer off by pressing the power button for five seconds.

After the computer is off, disconnect all cables and the power cord from your computer.

Place a soft, clean towel or cloth on the desk or surface. Hold the sides of the computer and slowly lay it down so the screen is flat against the surface and the bottom is toward you.

Raise the foot and use a Phillips #1 screwdriver to loosen the three screws at the bottom of the computer by turning them completely counter-clockwise. These are "captive screws," which means they're not supposed to come all the way out.

As you hold the metal foot, tilt the back cover up and lift it away from the computer. The back cover with the foot attached should come off easily. If it doesn't, make sure the screws are turned completely counter-clockwise, but not too far.

To protect the computer from electrostatic discharge, ground yourself by touching a metal surface inside the computer. Warning: Always discharge static electricity before you touch any parts or install any components inside the computer. Don't walk around the room in socks or bare feet, for example, until after you've finished these steps.

Locate the large white arrow in the middle of the computer.

Above this arrow, you'll see four LEDs:

LED 1 indicates that trickle voltage from the power supply has been detected. This LED will be ON when the computer is turned off and your power supply is working correctly.

LED 2 indicates that the main logic board has detected proper power from the power supply when the computer is turned on. This LED will be ON when the computer is turned on and the power supply is working correctly.

LED 3 indicates that the computer and the LCD display are communicating. This LED will be ON when the computer is turned on and video signal is being generated.

LED 4 lights only if the computer detects an over-temperature condition. This LED will be OFF when the computer is turned on and running at the correct temperature.

These diagnostic LEDs can be used to help you troubleshoot your computer.

PsykoG5
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Post by PsykoG5 » Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:25 pm

Hey acaurora, you guess of 4 or 6 fans is actually a little low. There are like 9 of them. But just because there are so many doesn't meant the computer is loud. It is actually quite quiet, I can't even tell it is on, not exaggerating that a bit.

Happy days people.

Gholam
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Post by Gholam » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:25 pm

Metaluna wrote:One thing occurred to me...if the screen tilts, then doesn't that mean that you can tilt the HD to an out-of-spec angle? I was under the impression that most hard drives allow 0 or 90-degree mounting orientation, with a few degrees of tolerance around those numbers. Or have the HD manufacturers mostly done away with this in the newer generations?
A while back, Western Digital representatives held a Q&A session at iXBT forums. One of the questions asked was about HD orientation. Answer was that any orientation is allowed, as long as it is in a "straight" (90-degree) angle. Mounting drives at incremental angles is not advised.

Vertical mountings are fairly common - IBM NetVista series of desktops mount them with the bottom (PCB) against the front panel for example, and this doesn't seem to cause any problems.

This new iMac represents a different environment though. I'm guessing several possibilities:

(a) Apple went with a HD manufacturer who officially spec'ed their drives for wider range of operating angles than WD
(b) WD reps were needlessly conservative about capabilities of their drives, and in truth modern drives don't care about operating angles.
(c) Apple didn't bother with checking the issue and in future, iMac G5 users may experience an epidemic of catastrophic hard drive failures due to head crashes.

Option (c) really doesn't sound like Apple, so I'm leaning towards either (a) or (b).

Regarding laptops, those drives are designed from the ground up for rough operating conditions - frequent movement, poor cooling, etc. One of the factors that makes them so damn expensive. Smaller drives - 1.8" and MicroDrives are even sturdier, but cost per GB is sky-high.

macdrew
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First impressions of new G5 iMac

Post by macdrew » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:18 pm

Just some quick notes on the new 20" G5 iMac.

It's damn fast, that's for sure... screams... :D

Works fine with 256MB, but I put in some more to get to 768MB. Don't really notice any difference. OSX is just that way...

It's whisper quiet EXCEPT when you copy large amounts of data, I copied 60 gigs when I first set it up and it's noiseier than my "middle" iMac at full fan speed. The fans seem to step up poorly... almost jerky... it's probably fixable through software, so I'll wait to call about it... this is one of the first 1000 20" imacs... so we'll see...

It's 2.5" thick, not 2".

Screen is excellent, but not sure it's as good as my 17" flat iMac...

It's pulling in a 2 hour VHS video now for editing, no dropped frames, or hangs... sweet!

iTunes sounded better on my "middle" iMac... so get speakers or the airport express and stream audio to your stereo...

The Tilt works well, and it seems to have teflon on the bottom so it pivots nicely...

SUPER easy to open, 3 "stay put" screws and the back fully lifts off. The stay put screws are a nice Apple touch. Looks like everything is standard, even the DVD can be replaced easily.

Usual high quality fit and finish, it's double shot plastic, another nice touch.

That's all i can think of for now...

Macdrew

PS: To PC Users that think the Mac is expensive. I always laugh at that... the Mac works quite well, very little hardware issues, no viruses (and probably will never have them because of how osx is constructed), it has a better software library than pc's, etc. Sure you pay an extra $200-$300 but you get it back by not having quirky hassles every day, isn't your time worth something? a trouble free machine is kinda nice... and prices aren't as much as you've been led to believe. check: http://www.macprices.com you won't be sorry. OSX now carries the torch for best software library of any pc, about 18,000 apps. http://www.versiontracker.com

sthayashi
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Re: First impressions of new G5 iMac

Post by sthayashi » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:02 pm

macdrew wrote:PS: To PC Users that think the Mac is expensive. I always laugh at that... the Mac works quite well, very little hardware issues, no viruses (and probably will never have them because of how osx is constructed), it has a better software library than pc's, etc. Sure you pay an extra $200-$300 but you get it back by not having quirky hassles every day, isn't your time worth something? a trouble free machine is kinda nice... and prices aren't as much as you've been led to believe. check: http://www.macprices.com you won't be sorry. OSX now carries the torch for best software library of any pc, about 18,000 apps. http://www.versiontracker.com
Image

EDIT: BTW, that's a joke (sort of). Click on the image to see why. The rest of the stuff that you wrote up is rather informative and we at SPCR thank you for contributing it. WELCOME TO SPCR

sustenance 0
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iMac G5 ?

Post by sustenance 0 » Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:05 am

I am curious does anyone know if the the base arm on the new iMac can be removed easily? As in can it be detached from the back cover, I am assuming that it is attached to the back cover seeing as how all the pics of the open back there is no foot. Am I correct?

As for ease of use and $$ I am more than willing to pay a little extra for a computer that works as soon as you turn it on and, one that looks as elegant as that.

Yea sure my huge Chieftec Dragon case has alot more internal room but it also has cords and wires running every where under my desk. And it weighs about 25-28 lbs. It would be insanely nice to just have a monitor sitting on my desk and this machine do anything and everything that I want it to do.

It looks like it would be pretty esay to work on to me. :D

macdrew
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Yes, G5 iMac Stand is Removable for Wall Mount / Tilt Mount

Post by macdrew » Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:43 am

The G5 iMac's stand is fully removable and conforms to the VESA Standard for wall mounting, ceiling mounting, etc :)

Apple will be offering a tilt arm in October.

http://www.macminute.com/2004/09/01/vesa

Also the iNeck is available for swiveling of the exsiting iMac stand.

http://www.ineck.com/

macdrew

mjankor
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Post by mjankor » Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:06 am

acaurora wrote:OOO look mom I'm on the front page *points at tiny text* :)
Kudos to Apple for coming out with a PC with style, ergonomics, and functionality.
Well Apple pretty much has been that way. I mean, look at their designs for their past computers, which, in no way are similar to that of the PCs. We had a G4 in our tech bench @ Best Buy the other day, and it's interesting to see how their computers are designed. The G4, although old now, still has some interesting designs. First off, there is a MASSIVE heatsink, probably the size of the XP120. Secondly, the side panel that comes off actually has a small 80x15mm fan that sucks air in through vents on the actual PANEL (at the bottom). There is only 1 120mm fan, and it is placed smack in the middle on the bottom of the case, sucking air in through the bottom front vents, and cooling directly onto a vertically mounted Seagate hard drive.

The G4 Cube was also a nice design, although I have heard horror stories about the touch-sensitive power buttom, that it was too sensitive, and even a little bit of dust could turn it off -.-;;

As for the new G5s, I'm not too sure about those. The 3 bladed fans supposedly "designed by Apple themselves", to me, are rather noisy. And to have what, 4? or *gasp* 6? I dont remember exactly how many, but that is a %$#load of fans, even if running at super low speeds with "4 climate zones", probably is noisy.

Still, though, I do admit Apple has amazed and astounded the world with their designs. Now if only somone could match their ingenuity, add higher powered components, and remain quiet, and TURN IT INTO A PC! :)

EDIT: I wonder if the iMac uses cyclone blowers, or super small fans, because to me, if you look in the top center on the iMac's exposed picture, it looks something like a cyclone blower (there are 2 of them, although I'm not sure if they're both are fans, or maybe just components :) )
Actually the G5's are very quiet. I've got a Rev A 2.0Ghz Dual Processor Model. The loudest thing in it is an ATI Silencer I added to my Radeon 9800pro. I had to ditch the stock ATI fan and also a Spire graphics cooler (rated at 23dba) because they were too loud.

They've actually got 9 fans in them too. :)

acaurora
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Post by acaurora » Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:40 pm

/me 's jaw drops.

http://www.apple.com/imac/

20 inches on that hinge. Oh. My. Stinking. God.

Now I REALLY wanna rip that thing apart.

MacTruth
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you all THINK you know

Post by MacTruth » Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:02 am

:shock:hi there, i came across this site, and after reading the posts on here, i felt compelled to join and leave a comment. some of you seem intelligent, so to those who are, please dont take offense. i would like to clear up some wise tales told here. for one, you can not touch a pc, that will do ALL the mac will do for the price! (and have it for more than a year, there are some real P.O.S.'s out there)
i have many macs, and i just got a new imac g5 (the first time i ever owned an imac, because of upgradeability but again, has more than most pc's) it has a 20" widescreen display, 1.8ghz g5 (which when tested against my p4 2.5ghz, the p4 cant hold a candle to in all applications compared, including microsoft office, let alone photoshop!) the video card, well it is a good one, but not the best, but sure as heck beats the geforce4! 1gb ram, 250gb hd, airport extreme, bluetooth, 2 firewire ports for TRUE digital transfers, 5 usb ports, 3 of which are usb2, vga out and audio in ports as well as composite, and s-video etc..... now, see if the profile even offers as much, and then price it! if you compare any pc, to a mac, you must first realize, most macs (with the exception of ram) come very well equiped, and most pc's like dell's, come very under equipped! so if you go on dells site, and get desktop to do the same for only $2000.00 (which is what i paid for all the imac has), i will be surprised! i know first hand, the only way you can get a dell or a gateway to compare to a dual g5 powermac, you will pay from $600.00 to $2000.00 more for it! that makes mac's cheaper by most anyones standards! let alone, they are much more reliable, not as susceptible to virus's, and the designers dont put open back doors in their operating system so they can track and sell your info to others, like microsoft! we all know why all you pc owners had got the worm, you can thank microsoft for intentionally putting that open door in windows!
dell compare: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/ ... tom_anchor
gateway compare:http://commerce.gateway.com/checkout/sh ... gment=Home&
the gateway has i more usb port, but does not offer a 20" display, bluetooth, and ram upgrade! almost $200.00 more, for an ugly, bulky system, with not even as much as the imac.....so, what cost more for what you get?
as for the argue with speed, look at pc magazines tests...the mac is faster and more reliable in most areas, same with many independant pc testing websites. yes, pc's have MORE available games, but as for graf. the dual g5 is the best fully loaded.....hands down, shown by all tests i have ever seen. and i dont go to mac sites, i go to pc sites, and they say the same! the main dif. is you really can not get a mac for $500.00, because they all come very equipped.....but who the heck wants a $500.00 dell? take your pc pride and shove it! look at the truth in the tests held by pc mag. and many others, yes pc's have the everyday admin asst. business nitch, but who cares, are you spending hours balancing your checkbook, or edditing photos at home? me, i eddit photos and video a lot more, and will never look back at a pc again!
oh, and i dont defrag, reboot, run any spyware.....IT JUST WORKS, AND WORKS BETTER!

ragtag
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Post by ragtag » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:01 am

macdrew: Thanks for posting actual experience of using this machine. Would love to get more of those....or a full review of this machine on the site.

My sister has a G4 iMac (the one that looks like a lamp), and I found it to be very silent, except for the optical drive which was rather noisy.
I've used a G4 workstation quite a bit, and it's slightly more noisy than your average PC. I've also used a Dual G5 workstation, which is quite silent, but you can still clearly hear the fans. The iMac G5 looks sweet, and certainly got me interested.

I currently own an old dual Dell Precision workstation/windtunnel, that makes more noise than an F16 during takeoff. I also work in an open office space, with 20 or so high-end PC workstation running all the time, with noise levels to match. This has made me make a few requierments for my next PC. It should be silent (preferebly I shouldn't be able to hear it at all), and it should have an LCD display (as looking into a CRT for 8 hours or more a day gives me a headache). I'm also a bit of a sucker for clean designs without a cable mess all over the place.

I don't want to get into the Mac vs. Windows argument, as it's pointless. Just use what works for you. Each OS and hardware has it's advantages and disadvantages, pick a system based on which factors are important to you.

Cheers,

Ragnar

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Post by tibetan mod king » Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:56 am

I'd buy a Mac... if Apple decided to support more than one menu bar and clean up the multiple monitors support. With two monitors, the modern Mac user interface is very clumsy to use. You cannot do "one app per monitor" as for one of the two apps, you will be carpal-tunneling yourself to death moving the mouse over to the other monitor to use the menu bar.

And the 1.8Ghz iMac G5 is not speedy. As the Anandtech review said -- and I totally agree -- Mac is not responsive until you are running the dual 2.5Ghz system. Until that point, your perception is always faster than how quickly the Mac updates.

Anyhow, please Apple do build a system that is geared towards the power user instead of the average iPod owner...

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