need quiet pc for voiceover work

Info & chat about quiet prebuilt, small form factor and barebones systems, people's experiences with vendors thereof, etc.

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talksforaliving
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need quiet pc for voiceover work

Post by talksforaliving » Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:25 am

Last year I was looking into buying a new PC and I got a lot of help from people here - so much that I almost took them up on their offers of advice to help me build my own - then I came back to reality and realized I have neither the knowledge nor time nor patience, and I put the whole thing on the back burner. Now I REALLY need a new machine and I don't want to deal with trying to build one - BUT I don't want to pay for a lot of stuff I don't need - and I can't come up short on what I DO need. Unfortunately I don't know enough to know what I DO need to achieve my purpose since I don't understand any of the technical details about motherboards and hard drives etc. If I listed the things I need the machine for here, could someone help me figure it out? Above all it has to be quiet! It's for voiceover work - voice only - I can't have my mic picking up noise.

thanks much!

sthayashi
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Post by sthayashi » Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:47 am

How much do you plan to talk and what do you plan on doing with your recording afterwards?

I was going to suggest ARM Systems since they're very quiet. The problem is that they don't do audio computers and if you want high quality recording equipment, you're going to have to do it yourself or pay someone you know to do it.

MikeC
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Post by MikeC » Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:31 pm

Check my recording PC, based on a Shuttle Zen SFF PC, on page 2-3 of SPCR's Test / Sound Lab: A Short Tour - http://www.silentpcreview.com/article190-page2.html -

The PC has only one 80mm fan in it running so quietly that most people can't hear it at all from a foot away. It's using a 2.5" Samsung notebook drive that's almost as fast as standard 7200rpm drives but virtually inaudible; it's suspended, too. With a 2.5G P4 & 512mb ram, the whole thing is quite inexpensive. Probably <US$600 for all the PC parts. (not including an optical drive) Only a small amount of modding needed, which is described in the article. The thing measures around 15-17 dBA/1m under any condition. Your talking voice will be 40-50-60 dBA.

For the audio, it depends partly what grade of mic you're using & what kind of quality you're looking for.

If the mic is a pro grade model that needs phantom power, if you already have a mic preamp that's decent, then all you need is a decent sound card. I'd go with something like M-Audio Audiophile 2496 or192. Market prices start at under US$100 for these.

If your mic does not need phantom power, then M-Audio FireWire Solo is probably just right. This is probably under $200.

Do you have a decent mic? mic preamp?

I could be persuaded to assemble another one like the one I made for the SPCR lab...

talksforaliving
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Post by talksforaliving » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:37 pm

thanks - I need to record professional audio. right now Im running a shure beta58 through a symetrix sx202 pre. I'll be upgrading my mic - and I had been considering anumber of condensor mics (AT4033 etc) but I'm not sure that they won't pick up too much room noise anyway. I may go for the dynamic SM7B - I use that at work in broadcast. In any case - I'll probably pick up a mackie mixer which has a good preamp in case I want to use it and has phantom power as well so I'll have all bases covered there. But it'll be a while till I upgrade as far as the mic and mixer so I need something that will work with what I have now and also in the future. I work extensively with databases (excel) and flowcharts (visio) and I need to have those programs open while I record into either sound forge or cool edit (now adobe audition) I usually record at 44,100 16bit mono and its gotten to the point where it takes forever to open or edit a voice file. I'm pretty sure I need tons of ram... I also need a lot of hard drive space - I store everying .wav (not mp3). I also need to run dual monitors and run dvds while I record (I sometime have to sync the speech with existing speech in another language) So I'd be running a dvd on one monitor while I record using the other - All of that probably implies a gazillion mgs. of ram. I also have to dub my demo CDs quick from one drive to another so I need 2 drives - a combo would be too slow - WHat I DONT need is a mega gaming 3D 40 million$ graphics card. but I DO need dual monitor capability. And I can't spend all day waiting for a voice file to open - I don't know what makes it work faster - whether its ram or speed or what... And I don't want to get involved in putting it together myself - If something goes wrong I'd never figure out what it is - I want tech support and a one stop shop on site warranty. I can't afford downtime.
Thanks for any suggestions... Sorry for the megalong post - I had read something about ARM here and that's what led me to post this - I was wondering if I could get something that would work for me without having to mess with it myself...

thanks again

sthayashi
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Post by sthayashi » Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:11 pm

You sound like a good case for a Raid-0 array. Good for loading and editing large files quickly (though they're extra bad for data security).

BTW, I do find needing 2 optical drives a bit puzzling. Doing that rather than dubing to disk and burning the result. One thing to brush up on is speed of storage:
Ram > Raid-0 (for large files) > normal Hard Disk > DVD/CD media.

Unless you are extremely pressed for time, it's probably better to record to hard disk first rather than going straight to CD. Also, loading and saving large files will hit the hard drives, not RAM, though having a lot of RAM can enable you to use filters quickly (in theory).

Also, since you're a pro (i.e. you make your living doing this), it may be worthwhile to relocate your computer. Every studio I've been in have their digital recording equipment OUTSIDE the recording room.

You need a highly customized system, IMHO, and I don't know any company that can provide it for you. ARM Systems comes close, but you need more. Sorry I don't know of anyone.

BTW, for reference, what are you currently using now?

PS - Randomly, you should look into using Monkey Audio or FLAC for your .wav storage. They're lossless audio compression codecs that can half a Wave file, which can be useful for backing up your files.

talksforaliving
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Post by talksforaliving » Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:19 am

Here's where my lack of knowledge shines. I didn't understand roughly half of that. By parts:

"You sound like a good case for a Raid-0 array. Good for loading and editing large files quickly (though they're extra bad for data security). "

I actually read about RAID and had been thinking of RAID1 (?) to make sure I have a second set of everything. I have no idea what RAID0 would do for me - I read its good for gaming - Are you saying it would enable my sound forge files to open and process more quickly?

"BTW, I do find needing 2 optical drives a bit puzzling. Doing that rather than dubing to disk and burning the result. One thing to brush up on is speed of storage:
Ram > Raid-0 (for large files) > normal Hard Disk > DVD/CD media. Unless you are extremely pressed for time, it's probably better to record to hard disk first rather than going straight to CD. Also, loading and saving large files will hit the hard drives, not RAM, though having a lot of RAM can enable you to use filters quickly (in theory). "

Maybe I'm completely wrong - see, much of what I do is record onto my computer and then ftp a .wav file to my client. However, I have various voiceover demos - which I've had produced in outside studios (w/music etc) - when I want to send a demo off to a potential client - I stick my master into one CD drive and burn a dub on the other. I figured that's the quickest way of doing it - and I don't want to lose any quality. sometimes I need to make a lot at a time - Is there a better way of doing this?

"Also, since you're a pro (i.e. you make your living doing this), it may be worthwhile to relocate your computer. Every studio I've been in have their digital recording equipment OUTSIDE the recording room. "

True, they usually also have an engineer running things, while you just go into the booth and record - Here, I am my engineer. This is why I'm thinking of going with a dynamic mic rather than condenser - it'll pick up less room noise -

"You need a highly customized system, IMHO, and I don't know any company that can provide it for you. ARM Systems comes close, but you need more. Sorry I don't know of anyone."

is ARM good? Maybe I should call them and see what they can do?

BTW, for reference, what are you currently using now?

computer? a 5 year old dell 600mhz w250M ram (I know) that sounds like a jet engine - I keep it as far away as possible and have my audio gated - but that creates its own problems - I try to filter out what I can between my gate setting and the software filters.

PS - Randomly, you should look into using Monkey Audio or FLAC for your .wav storage. They're lossless audio compression codecs that can half a Wave file, which can be useful for backing up your files.

???? don't know what the above is - I'll look into it.

thanks for your help - I'm so far out of my league on this, it's pathetic. Next, once I get this computer - I have to find one for my husband - HE does lots of graphics (corel mostly) and, being male, likes games.

thanks again!

MikeC
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Post by MikeC » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:02 am

You can definitely keep it under $2000 -- probably $1500-1600? Try contacting ARM Systems or EndPCNoise (assuming you are in the US).

The only thing extra you'd need/want is a pro sound card -- which it sounds like you must know all about anyway. I'd go with an external firewire type device -- better flexibility.

Dual monitors don't demand any more power from your PC -- it's generally built into most mid & higher end video cards these days.
AMD Athlon 64s are the sweet spot for high end processors these days: They run cooler, generally beat similarly priced P4s and are already 64-bit --"future proof".

BTW -- agree w/ you that a dynamic cardioid mic is probably best for you. It's not like you're ever going to be more than 6" from the mic anyway, and your voice is ALL you want to pick up, right? More rugged, etc...

One thing you might consider: A quiet notebook drive like the Samsung 2.5" 80G for your main/only hard drive, combined with a firewire external huge capacity 3.5" HDD (up to 400G in a single drive these days) for data storage & backup. This means less noise during recording; simply unplug the external drive & plug it in only when needed.

sthayashi
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Post by sthayashi » Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:20 pm

talksforaliving wrote:I actually read about RAID and had been thinking of RAID1 (?) to make sure I have a second set of everything. I have no idea what RAID0 would do for me - I read its good for gaming - Are you saying it would enable my sound forge files to open and process more quickly?
Ironically, RAID-0 does very little for gaming. However, if you were a heavy Photoshop user, you could have Photoshop point to your Raid-0 array for its "scratch pad/workspace" and it will operate a lot more quickly. It's strength lies in large file manipulation. Games don't really use large files per se.

BTW, the file sizes in question for Raid-0 benefits would be on the order of 100MB or more. However, seeing that your current system is a 600MHz Pentium III, it could easily be your processor that's the bottle neck.
talksforaliving wrote:Maybe I'm completely wrong - see, much of what I do is record onto my computer and then ftp a .wav file to my client. However, I have various voiceover demos - which I've had produced in outside studios (w/music etc) - when I want to send a demo off to a potential client - I stick my master into one CD drive and burn a dub on the other. I figured that's the quickest way of doing it - and I don't want to lose any quality. sometimes I need to make a lot at a time - Is there a better way of doing this?
Nope... I'm the one misunderstanding you. When you said dub, I assumed you meant playing background music/video on one drive (dubbing or overdubbing as it's sometimes called), and recording your voice over that while writing the final output to CD. Clearly that's not what you want to do.
talksforaliving wrote:True, they usually also have an engineer running things, while you just go into the booth and record - Here, I am my engineer. This is why I'm thinking of going with a dynamic mic rather than condenser - it'll pick up less room noise -
This makes sense. Especially when you're just doing your own voice. Sorry, I'm too used to addressing someone interested in instrument recording.
talksforaliving wrote:is ARM good? Maybe I should call them and see what they can do?
I've been very impressed with their support and response. And I trust MikeC when he says that their computers are amazingly quiet. But even their machines only go so far and you may have to do things on your own like install your own Firewire Soundcard :) I would give them a call though, because Roy and Steve are very nice people and I'm sure they can be flexible and do things like set up your Raid-1 array if you want.
talksforaliving wrote:PS - Randomly, you should look into using Monkey Audio or FLAC for your .wav storage. They're lossless audio compression codecs that can half a Wave file, which can be useful for backing up your files.

???? don't know what the above is - I'll look into it.
Most people don't about such formats. They're basically like an mp3, but mp3, as you probably know, is lossy and can provide reduced quality. FLAC and Monkey Audio is lossless (sort of like how you can Zip a file in order to make it smaller). For example, a 44.1kHz 16-bit stereo file is roughly 10MB per minute (mono is 5 MB). FLAC and Monkey can compress to 50-60% of it's original file size (in stereo at least. I haven't seen any mono comparisons). The only downside is that most other people have never heard of such formats, so they're ultimately only useful for yourself.

Incidentally, another format that might be interesting for you would be Speex or Audible. Those are lossy compression codecs designed for human voice only. The reason they're interesting is because I've read at least one user turned a 19MB Wav file into a 700KB Speex file. However it's not designed for high fidelity (the person in question recorded at 16kHz).

Sorry for straying so far off-topic with very little information to actually help you.

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Post by teejay » Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:52 pm

Have you considered using a stand-alone CD-copy device for your quick-dubbing needs? Not too expensive these days, very quick & convenient if you need to do many copies. The $40 ATi 9200 videocard in my secondary PC is capable of running 2 displays @ 1600x1200, so you have at least one item on your wishlist that can be implemented in a... cost-efficient manner.

burcakb
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Post by burcakb » Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:53 pm

MikeC's suggestions seem to be the best. ie, use a small, very quiet notebook drive for recording sessions and lots of huge external storage for - well, storage. Most external hard drives have their own power so while you're recording, you just unplug them for extra quiet, plug them back when you're manipulating files or editing.

RAM is good, RAM is nice, the more the merrier, etc - as far as windows is concerned. But the programs you use expect to work with files much larger than will fit in memory so "reasonable amout" should be enough. What's reasonable depends more on your average file size and what you exactly do with those files. Run filters, passes?, reencode into another format? etc.

Before going into Raid configs, I'd prefer to suggest something else. But as far as I know, you'll find it extremely difficult to get hold of someone who'll understand what I'm about to describe. The info is from a friend who operates his own recording studio:

The trouble while recording is not necessarily the amount of data you're working with but rather the split second timings required during recording. At this point, you need to configure a system that has the smoothest data flow path. Unfortunately most modern motherboards put the hard disk, the network and the PCI bus where you plug in your firewire recording equipment all on the same data bus. So your input (the data your recording equipment is sending in) and your harddisk are struggling for control of the same road. There are boards (not necessarily expensive) that place these interfaces on seperate paths - or there are boards that let you configure things properly. Unfortunately your regular Windows installation loves to mess up such configs while installing itself, so you need someone with good understanding of Windows to do your install. So a good technician can setup a system for you with a non-Raid setup if he knows what he's doing.

I included the above as general info. In your case, such tweaking could possibly be overkill. As sthayashi suggested probably your dated setup is your main problem.

If you go with an Athlon64 system, take care to specify a Firewire interface. That interface looks like it dropped out from some of the midrange system specs. You absolutely, definitely need that interface. Preferably get your external storage in Firewire too.

As for "dubbing" as you call it, if you get lots of storage, you could potentially keep a copy of the CD you want to produce as an image file on the hard disk and burn one off whenever you want. Faster, cleaner and less one optical drive to worry about.

marose1
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Post by marose1 » Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:22 pm

See my post under "Who sells quiet PC's other than ARM". You might want to look at the Sonica Computers:

http://www.rockinghamsound.com/index.asp

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