ARM Systems StealthPCs - Ask Steve

Stevo@ARM · Post by **Stevo@ARM** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:02 pm

Dear SPCR Readers,

In an effort to provide real dialog with customers interested in ARM Systems StealthPCs, I created this topic to answer questions, participate in the overall discussions here at SPCR, and to provide SPCR readers direct contact to me, Steve Collins, EVP and a principal of ARM Systems.

The StealthPC product family is one of the areas in our company that my team is responsible for. So I started this topic because when I have questions about a product, or need help from a vendor, it's a lot less frustrating when I can reach someone who will actually answer my questions, help me with service and support issues, or assist if there is ever a problem. It's not a perfect world and I don't have all the answers; however, I'll do my level best to be of service to you.

I'll also make an effort to be involved in some of the other forum discussion threads when related to ARM Systems or our StealthPC products and will do my very best to answer reasonable and respectful inquiries, without the usual heavy PR spin often handed out by some vendors.

So if you have questions for me, please feel free to post them here.

Thank You,
Steve

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:09 pm

Ok, I'm gonna have to start this off with an outright question of curiosity, not exactly related to the StealthPCs, but...

What meaning does 'ARM' have? I'm assuming an acronym for something.

Stevo@ARM · Post by **Stevo@ARM** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:25 pm

That's a good question Zyzzyx, I have been asked what ARM means many times over the years. When my business partner, Roy Manalastas, first founded the company he wanted to use both his and his wife Anita's initials in the name.

And, not wanting to be listed way at the bottom of any alphabetic listing, Roy arranged the letters as ARM for the first part of the company name. A few years later when I joined the company and became a part owner in the spirit of good cheer I jokingly claimed the 'S' in systems.

Stevo@ARM · Post by **Stevo@ARM** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 8:18 am

I see a lot of discussion throughout the SPCR forums from folks about pre-built systems. Please, don't be shy, ask me and I'll do my best to answer in a straightforward fashion. I've been in the industry for 20 years, and though I still work hard to learn more everyday, I may be able to help you decide whether to get a pre-built silent PC or to build your own.

One of the biggest complaints about manufacturers these days is that they don't listen to their customers as a whole, and rarely ever pay attention to them as individuals.

I know in my own personal experience it really burns me up when vendors, gladly cash my check when I'm ready to buy something, then turn a deaf ear to me when I need a little extra help or have a few questions.

Well... I really do make the effort to listen, learn, and understand our customer's needs and wants. Don't get me wrong, I'm not perfect, so give me some reasonable slack

Also, this thread is not intended to be an info-mercial, I will make genuine efforts to hear you and provide reasoned responses.

So, for those that are interested in silent pre-built systems (and for those of you who build your own, but would prefer that their family, friends, and associates get a silent pre-built system) use this thread to ask me questions and to provide feedback so I can continually refine our products and service.

To get things started:

Basically, what would you like to see us building in the future for you and your friends

What systems from ARM would you like to see reviewed @ SPCR

(If we have them in our product line now, or will be adding something like it soon, we can look into sending a review unit up to MikeC if he decides that he wants to have a look at it.)

Can we improve our online experience for you

Does our website need to be changed to make things better

I'm all ears

GamingGod · Post by **GamingGod** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:23 am

Im kinda curious, how big is your buisiness? How many people do you have assembling pcs for your your company?

GenghiS_KhaN · Post by **GenghiS_KhaN** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:35 am

Is there a possibility of seeing any inside pictures of your quiet system(s) ? I'd like to see how you guys arrange everything inside the case like HD, casefans, were you add damping,...
edit: I just read the review, I forgot to look for one to see pictures

And what did you change inside the zalman PSU's? Did you switch the fan?

About the site: maybe you could add some inside pictures or more information about the company, shipping, location,...

Stevo@ARM · Post by **Stevo@ARM** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:32 am

GamingGod wrote:Im kinda curious, how big is your buisiness? How many people do you have assembling pcs for your your company?

A very good question GamingGod. Sometimes pictures tell the best story, so these shots might help everyone get some idea of our operation in California. See below for a couple pics. The first one is of our Production Line and our staff, and the second is a shot of some pallets of systems being staged to fill a private label order for a large retailer.

For those that are wondering, thats me in the blue shirt and tie with the suspenders

.... I have since shaved the beard off at the insistance of my wife

She said it made me look mean

Cheers,
Steve

ARM Systems Production Line and Staff

ARM Systems Order Staging

Stevo@ARM · Post by **Stevo@ARM** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:23 am

GenghiS_KhaN wrote: .... what did you change inside the zalman PSU's? Did you switch the fan?

About the site: maybe you could add some inside pictures or more information about the company, shipping, location,...

Glad you asked GenghiS_KhaN,

Yes we do mod the power supply with a much quieter fan. Which specific fan model can change over time, because our R&D Department is continually striving to improve the StealthPC without reducing reliability. However, as you probably know, with most silentPC mods doing this voids the original warranty from Zalman

, which some folks might not be aware of at first until it's too late which can be painful because high end power supplies are not cheap.

One benefit with our StealthPCs is that ARM Systems provides warranty replacements on our factory modded Zalman PSUs for up to 3 years depending on which warranty service plan is chosen when getting a new system.

And we do extensive thermal and stress-load validation testing on the StealthPC configurations. Which is why we strongly suggest the 400w Zalmans when using 3.0GHz and up CPUs (or comparable AMD CPUs), especially when configuring xtreme power-user rigs using ultra high-end video cards (i.e. ATI 9800XT or NVIDIA 5900/5950 and the like), coupled with multiple drives - even with lower speed processors.

Thanks for the feedback on our website, we are working on a new facelift of our main website http://www.armsystems.com with a new StealthPC landing page. Your comments and others we receive will help improve the user experience.

Cheers,
Stevo

GamingGod · Post by **GamingGod** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:33 pm

Thats a nice sized operation you have there. LOL if you need more help assembling quiet pcs im currently looking for employment

You might do good to send a review to PC Gamer, they have a huge reader base and your only competition would be with voodoo, and alienware which are VERY VERY overpriced. Oh also dell, but I dont see any company toppling dell any time soon.

Stevo@ARM · Post by **Stevo@ARM** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:32 am

GamingGod wrote:Thats a nice sized operation you have there. LOL if you need more help assembling quiet pcs im currently looking for employment You might do good to send a review to PC Gamer, they have a huge reader base and your only competition would be with voodoo, and alienware which are VERY VERY overpriced. Oh also dell, but I dont see any company toppling dell any time soon.

Thanks for the compliment GamingGod,

as a major contributor to the SPCR forums your feedback is valued greatly. It is a true labor of love working last 18 years refining ARM Systems into what we are today. And though ARM isn't a multi-billion international mega-giant corporation - and we know aren't perfect and do make a mistake now and then

, we have been through all the ups and downs in this industry which allows us to bring a very experienced perspective to serve our customers. We know many of the component suppliers from their infancy, and have seen some suppliers and builders who were praised one day in the media, crash and burn the next.

We make it a key focus to apply the lessons we've learned when working with suppliers, designing new products, and serving our customers. In a nutshell, we aim to build radical leading edge products, but run our business by very conservative and sound business principles so we will be around for the long term and our customers can be confident that we will be there for them down the road.

As for helping us build, if we ever decide to open a branch in your area we'd be glad to add motivated folks like you to the team. Only one problem... we are spoiled by the good weather out here so that's probably a long shot

Regarding reviews in PC Gamer, and other publications and websites, that is a great idea! You and the other contributors at SPCR can really help by writing the editors of various industry publications and websites and requesting that they review our StealthPC systems. That way when we contact them, or even better when they contact us, they give it some serious consideration - it's always best when they think it's their idea

. So, yes, I would be glad to send review units to them if they will give the topic of silent computing some real respect.

As for our competitors, like ARM, each has their strengths and weaknesses and I try not to get into finger pointing. Although, it really disturbs me that the big guys are now exporting massive numbers of domestic tech and support jobs overseas just so their PC's can be cheaper! I know we all want to save a few bucks when we can, but in my opinion what they are doing is not truly benefiting the customers, the U.S.A., or Canada in the long run.

Keep the feedback and questions coming guys, it's very important that we understand what is important to the Silent PC community.

Cheers,
Stevo

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:19 pm

Stevo@ARM wrote:
As for our competitors, like ARM, each has their strengths and weaknesses and I try not to get into finger pointing. Although, it really disturbs me that the big guys are now exporting massive numbers of domestic tech and support jobs overseas just so their PC's can be cheaper! I know we all want to save a few bucks when we can, but in my opinion what they are doing is not truly benefiting the customers, the U.S.A., or Canada in the long run.

Keep the feedback and questions coming guys, it's very important that we understand what is important to the Silent PC community.

Cheers,
Stevo

Amen brother. I think there will be a big movement to return factories to North America once we begin to suffer some from free trade. Perhaps ARM will benefit while others struggle to return to North America.

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:28 pm

Do you have much trouble shipping those heavy heatsinks or heavy VGA coolers?

uglydog · Post by **uglydog** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:43 pm

I like my ARM PC.

I purchased what I consider a high end computer from ARM about eleven months ago. I've had very noisy computers in the past (Gateway, Compaq and HP) and I was getting very frustrated by the noise.

I did not have the knowledge or experience to set up a quiet computer on my own.

I've since learned much and might try a self perform PC in the future - but only on a second "hobby" PC, not on a machine where reliability is paramount.

I've modified my ARM PC (added hard drives, card reader, cut out fan grills, put in fan isolator things, added CPU fan duct.....) but these modifications are only tweaks (other than the hard drives), the basic system I purchased from ARM would meet the goal of a quiet PC (IMHO).

This is not meant as an advertisment for ARM but I do believe in giving credit where it is due. If you don't have the time, knowledge or inclination to build your own PC, ARM is one way to go.

One question for Steve: Why don't you guys use fan ducts? It does lower the CPU temperature.

Stevo@ARM · Post by **Stevo@ARM** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:52 am

Trip wrote: Amen brother. I think there will be a big movement to return factories to North America once we begin to suffer some from free trade. Perhaps ARM will benefit while others struggle to return to North America.

Until I saw your post Trip, I was beginning to wonder just how everyone else feels about what has been happening to our domestic jobs. I am encouraged by your post that others share in our commitment to keep all of our staff here in the U.S.A. and our desire to see a strong and vital North America overall.

As customers we all vote with our hard earned dollars with every purchase, and carefully choosing quality domestic vendors that add REAL VALUE and are using domestic labor keeps North America strong. Take a little time to read the current news and find out what some companies are doing behind the scenes before purchasing their products and then purchase responsibly.

Please don't get me wrong here folks, domestic vendors with local labor must justify any premium in their price with common sense things like genuine old fashioned customer service, high quality well crafted and reliable products that perform as advertised, and attentiveness to market conditions and customer needs. These principles are the foundation of ARM's mission statement and I wouldn't be a part of it without them. Also, there are other good vendors out there too, we just need to keep our eyes open and exercise our economic voting power to reward those companies that are looking out for more than just the bottom line.

OK, I’m off my soap box now

Stevo

Stevo@ARM · Post by **Stevo@ARM** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:16 am

Trip wrote:Do you have much trouble shipping those heavy heatsinks or heavy VGA coolers?

Great question Trip

The process of shipping a system thousands of miles, or sometimes even locally

can place a computer system under more g-forces and shock stress than most customers, or some vendors, ever realize. To deal with that kind of abuse, we use double-walled heavy weight custom designed shipping boxes and we own an industrial foam injection molding machine right here in our shop to ensure the systems are safeguarded in transit. All of our boxes and foam systems are designed and tested by 3rd party freight experts outside our company and then stress tested to exceed national shipping standards by size, weight, and content. The reality is that we work too hard to design and build the StealthPC to not have it show up in pristine condition.

Secondly, all component products inside an ARM StealthPC are designed to survive very heavy abuse by the freight carriers. Extra structural supports are installed inside to lock down heavy video cards. Massive super-heavy heatsinks are bolted through the motherboard and cross-braced on the underside to ensure the systemboard is safe and the CPU cooler stays solidly put. All other items inside are tied down, secured and otherwise gorilla-proofed

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:42 pm

Heh, the reason I said "North America" and not "US" was I thought you were located partially in Canada, though the US certainly benefits from Canada's prosperity so either way I'd be impressed. Mike recommends you, your product appears to be well thought out and well made, AND as a bonus it's made in the US! Heh, this is too much.

I'll certainly recommend you to whomever is looking for a computer, but most will choose Dell and their slightly lower prices (and lower quality). There are always people looking for computers though. I'll mention ARM next time someone is looking for one.

By the way, is it pronounced: A - R - M ? or "arm"?

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:41 pm

Well, as the first non-american to post in here I think I shall take the opposite view, that it is good for America that it´s largest brands moves their assembly oversees instead of continuing to build the systems in America.

The question you guys, Steve and Trip, are asking is "What if all those systems were built in America?" And if nothing ells changed but the location of the assembly, it is right, America would win lots of job opportunities.

However, the relevant question is "Would all those systems be built, if built in America?" No. Steve gives the reason why when he concludes that it saves money and will make either the systems cheaper localy or would generate a bigger profit. This market is a highly price-competetive market. Most people do not care where they buy their PC, nor where it was assembled, they just want the most bang for their buck (oftenly buying something that realy doesn´t sute them, or paying overprice:). However, Europeans (nor others:) are born stupid and may as well start to assembly computers as well as anybody ells and if they can build computers a few dollars cheaper, they will always have the upper hand on American companies that assemble computers domestically.

Where does that profit go? Well it doesn´t stay abroad (as in your perspective), not much of it anyway (some do, of course, due to taxes and investment but far from all). It will be added up in America and the business abroad will create more work for the headquarter at home. This work gives more jobopportunities and so America earns both jobopportunities and profit by its companies branching out and manufacture computers ellswhere.

To summarize: Assembling computersystems abroad allows American companies to elliminate an edge European (and others) companies have on their homemarket, due, for instance to the lack of transportationcosts. Thus, assembling computers abroad allows American companies to make more profits and create more jobs at the HQ.

As for me, I can only hope that you guys are right, it would put me in a better position to get a job around here and not all of the wealth created here would be depleted to USA. I am not Irish, but have studied Ireland to some extent, did you know that 7% of Irelands GDP last year was American profits and thus depleted to America? Thats alot, concidering that GDP/capita in Ireland is one of the highest in the non-oilproducing world.

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:38 pm

i don't want to ruin Steve's thread with a political debate, but there are plenty of similar topics in the off topic area. Not at all trying to dodge the issue, but the place to discuss this is there.

Well written response though. Just cut and paste that somewhere in the OT and I'll respond.

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:03 am

You are so right, Trip, this not the place. Just concider this an outburst of a to tired ecnomics student fed up on his paper on a similar topic....

sketch · Post by **sketch** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 11:29 pm

ARM is hands-down the best PC company I've ever dealt with. Going from the nightmare of the Dell ordering process to ARM was pleasantly shocking. The unit arrives on time, as spec'd, and doesn't have all those silly reinstallation discs and proprietary nonsense. Oh, and even their lowest grade of quiet is quieter than the quietest Dell SchlOcktiplex. The system worked perfectly and then they called to make sure we were happy. Just about as good as it gets in buying anything these days.

I just wish there was a way for us here to do a bulk-buy through this forum to get a better price... these PCs are near perfect but they are expensive.

Stevo@ARM · Post by **Stevo@ARM** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:16 pm

uglydog wrote:I like my ARM PC...

Thanks uglydog, our StealthPC team appreciates your compliments.

uglydog wrote:...I purchased what I consider a high end computer from ARM about eleven months ago. I've had very noisy computers in the past (Gateway, Compaq and HP) and I was getting very frustrated by the noise.....

... One question for Steve: Why don't you guys use fan ducts? It does lower the CPU temperature.

As for the fan duct question, yes it does, and we now have our RamAIR induction system in the new models now. BTW, I waited to respond to your question because the latest SPCR review on our newest model of StealthPC was just about to be finished (review found here: Powerhouse StealthPC by ARM Systems) This review unit had been sent up to SPCR and was getting ready to be published and I didn't want to take anything away from MikeC's editorial coverage or the review itself.

We do a significant amount of R&D before releasing a given StealthPC model into the marketplace, and our units were working very well within our specification ranges without any ducting at the time you purchased your system. However, since then there has been a massive increase in the wattage of key components, like the new P4 3.20 which can actually top out at 96W under 100% full load

Our R&D then validated and implemented our new cold air induction into the product family to maintain our thermal vs. dBA targets. Right now they are working on some new stuff for 2005, but that's top secret

Oh yeah, I know some of you might have read Intel's official thermal specification on the P4 3.20 at 82 Watts, but what they don't say on those specification sheets is that those numbers are actually based upon an 85% CPU load, so the whole ball game changes when you completely red-line that beast

Cheers,
Stevo

PretzelB · Post by **PretzelB** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:26 am

I just read a review on an ARM system and someone brought up that you can get a "kit" with just the case, psu, fans, and dampening material for a price. I'm not interested in buying a full assembled system but something like these kits does appeal to me. Seems like you guys do good work from what I read so I'd like to throw some business your way. I might be in the minority but being able to buy a "slightly" modified case is something you could sell that would get business from me.

For example, I read a lot about acoustic material in cases these days but I don't want to mess with it at all. I don't know why - I will spend hours tweaking fans but for some reason I don't want to mess with dampening stuff. Getting a case with the material already applied is a nice option.

The only drawback is what comes with the kit. I'd probably want to use my own fans and maybe even my own power supply. Of course, I'm sure it gets very hard to make a profit when you provide 100% customization on things like this. Just wanted to provide some feedback.

roym@arm · Post by **roym@arm** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:08 am

PretzelB, I'm pre-emting a response from Stevo@ARM about your questions on the case kit.

You are on track about the financial viability when it comes to customization. In order to balance these out with benefits provided to the DIY we came up with the minimum kit as being the case/modded PSU/HD Grommets/Case fans w/ fanmates/Acoustipack installed. This kit is the platform for our Stealth PC that has been sucessfully marketed for several years and evolved to what it is today.

If we can answer any more questions, please feel free to call our toll free number at 800 276-9450.

Roym@arm

mcree · Post by **mcree** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:40 am

Will you be offering any StealthPCs in a desktop case instead of a tower? The horizontal orientation can be better for home theater/media center PCs. I guess that means the side vent for the CPU will actually be on top and can't be blocked, but that's a common requirement for A/V equipment.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:22 pm

Hello:

Am I missing the link to the Stealth kits, and/or the press release?

roym@arm · Post by **roym@arm** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:22 pm

Hi Neil,

You are not missing the link to the Stealth kits because they are not there.
ARM's web site is currently undergoing major changes. An interim update in the next few days may put the links there but not much more.

In the meantime, if you want/need information on kits, feel free to e-mail [email protected] or simply call 800 276-9450 (from US only).

Stevo@ARM · Post by **Stevo@ARM** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:28 pm

mcree wrote:Will you be offering any StealthPCs in a desktop case instead of a tower?

You are indeed correct mcree, we do not have a desktop case in our StealthPC line up. However, we are always actively listening to feedback from our customers and potential customers on ways we can serve them better.

That said, we have been mulling over some plans for a desktop model and your input and that of others will be noted. However, because we warranty our StealthPCs for up to 3 years and offer nationwide onsite service on them we are careful not to rush products to market without the proper R&D.

Are there any other folks who are interested in a desktop model of our StealthPCs?

Besides using it as a home theater/media center PC, which is why we are considering doing one, do any of you want a desktop format StealthPC for more general use? There are design issues related to functionality and look and feel vs. expense that we have to keep in mind.

PretzelB · Post by **PretzelB** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:47 am

I've been in the market for a desktop chasis for a while. I have a regular tower right now for my HTPC and it really doesn't fit the room setup. My main problem has been finding one that will take a full sized ATX board since I don't want to replace my existing system. If you offered a "kit" that used a desktop chasis I'd be interested.

Stevo@ARM · Post by **Stevo@ARM** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:26 pm

NeilBlanchard wrote: .... Am I missing the link to the Stealth kits, and/or the press release?

For those of you looking for information on our just announced ARM StealthPC DIY Foundation Kits the following link to this .pdf file should help for now until our website overhaul is finished:

ARM StealthPC DIY Foundation Kits

Cheers,
Stevo

Steve___ · Post by **Steve___** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:13 am

Does ARM have a distributor in the UK? Thanks

ARM Systems StealthPCs - Ask Steve

ARM Systems StealthPCs - Ask Steve

Listening To You About Silent Pre-Built Systems

Desktop models?

Where is the link to the kits?

Re: Desktop models?

Re: Where is the link to the kits?

UK?